Uk Overstay, Return To Thailand

[LALA75]

My girl friend is an overstayer in the UK for about 3 years. She was already in that situation when I met her. Since then, I tried to convince her to go back to Thailand. She's now ready to do so. Then, we want her to apply for a visa (long stay, before getting married) in France, saying the truth about her overstay here. I'm french, I'm living in the UK but I'm planning to go back in France, as I hope it will make easier for her to join me. But I'm worried about what might happen to her when she returns to Thailand. She believes that the thai authorities might strip her of her passport for 6 months or more. Is that true? Does anybody know if there's anything we can do, legally, to avoid that? Also, when she leaves the UK, is it better to just go to airport and take her flight, or should we contact the thai embassy here before? When she's got her passport controlled, can the UK authorities make any difficulties for her leaving the country?

[Eff1n2ret]

To answer your last question first, your g/f may be interviewed by UKBA officers on departure. They may issue her with a notice as an overstayer, but in practice this shouldn't make any difference to your plans.

I don't know what the Thai authorities do about their people who have committed an immigration offence abroad. Does your g/f have her original passport? If so, I suspect they won't be bothered. I think they're more likely to be concerned about those who get here and "lose" or destroy their passports and get removed with an emergency document.

If you plan to get married, you may wish to consider your rights under European legislation rather than UK or French immigration law. You are an EU national "exercising your treaty rights" by living and working in the UK. Therefore you can bring your wife here with an EEA Family Permit. The application is free of charge and can only be refused on the grounds that you have contracted a marriage of convenience (plus the normal caveats about public health or security, which should not concern you unless your wife is a terrorist or has some contageous disease). The onus of proof is on the visa officer, not on you. The EEA Family Permit is valid for 6 months, and after arrival in the UK she can apply for a Residence Card which is valid for 5 years. So if you show evidence of the time you have spent together in the UK, there should be no grounds for alleging a marriage of convenience.

Therefore, unless you particularly want to spend time together in France before you get married, your best plan may be to get married in Thailand and apply to come back to the UK.

[edwinclapham]

My girl friend is an overstayer in the UK for about 3 years. She was already in that situation when I met her. Since then, I tried to convince her to go back to Thailand. She's now ready to do so. Then, we want her to apply for a visa (long stay, before getting married) in France, saying the truth about her overstay here. I'm french, I'm living in the UK but I'm planning to go back in France, as I hope it will make easier for her to join me. But I'm worried about what might happen to her when she returns to Thailand. She believes that the thai authorities might strip her of her passport for 6 months or more. Is that true? Does anybody know if there's anything we can do, legally, to avoid that? Also, when she leaves the UK, is it better to just go to airport and take her flight, or should we contact the thai embassy here before? When she's got her passport controlled, can the UK authorities make any difficulties for her leaving the country?

Hi LaLa my son who is a senior Immigation Officer at Heathrow is staying with me here in Thailand on holiday and I put this very question to him today.. Your girlfriend would be travelling to France on a Schengen Visa and the British Immigration authorities will have notified the following countries and as the extract says she will be barred: see the following...............

In general you will be barred for ten years from entry to 25 European States which participate in the Schengen Agreement.

Those are Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, and Switzerland.

If she reports her passport stolen in Thailand and re applies (apparently this is a very common practice) sufficient records are kept on UK and Schengen countries (anti terrorisim) to know she is committing an offence.

I personally thought there was no check on departure at Uk airports but airlines are linked up with immigration (hence they see your visa) and a direct link report is sent back.

The Uk isnt a member of the Schengen agreement, but Immigration and Customs work very closely with the countries above.

[Eff1n2ret]

"Your girlfriend would be travelling to France on a Schengen Visa and the British Immigration authorities will have notified the following countries and as the extract says she will be barred: see the following...............

In general you will be barred for ten years from entry to 25 European States..."

That's why I suggest that they should get married in Thailand. Then Para 320 7 B of the Rules (ask your "senior Immigration Officer" son about this) won't apply (see 320 7 C). I doubt whether other EU states have unrestricted access to the Uk warnings index as suggested.

Edited February 22, 2009 by Eff1n2ret

[Nowhereman60]

Your girl friend is just another reason why it's so hard for some to get a visa to visit England for a Thai person.

[edwinclapham]

"Your girlfriend would be travelling to France on a Schengen Visa and the British Immigration authorities will have notified the following countries and as the extract says she will be barred: see the following...............

In general you will be barred for ten years from entry to 25 European States..."

That's why I suggest that they should get married in Thailand. Then Para 320 7 B of the Rules (ask your "senior Immigration Officer" son about this) won't apply (see 320 7 C). I doubt whether other EU states have unrestricted access to the Uk warnings index as suggested.

[/quote..

I am replying to the OP that this is what is to be expected, but you never know they could come lucky.... my advice is always try anything (within the law), hopefully the OP will be going to live in France where they maybe more sympathetic to "the family" situation..... the point I was making was basically try and keep things simple and honest, and your chances maybe better than a weaving a web of lies!!

[edwinclapham]

Your girl friend is just another reason why it's so hard for some to get a visa to visit England for a Thai person.

Well Nowhereman60 you have a point there, and there have been instances that the thai girl has been lured into prostitition hence the regulations. I guess the lady in question is lucky that the problem is in the UK end and not in Thailand. I wish the OP well but would recommend he knows this woman extremely well, there will be a long long story there thats for sure, shame if he was being misled for a French visa!

[Eff1n2ret]

LALA75, I inferred from your original message that your ultimate intention is to return to the UK with the lady. If that's the case, check out the info on the UK Visas website which confirms my original advice:

http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/howtoapply/in...ssnationals#Q10

If you want to take her to France, you'd better check the French visa regulations, and seek advice from other French nationals with knowledge which would help your situation.

But what you could do, if your ultimate intention is to settle in France, is to secure an EEA Family Permit for her to come to the UK, spend a few months here, and then apply for an EEA Family permit in France under the same regulations - even returning your to your own country you can use the EEA Regulations because of a judgement in the European Court known as "Surinder Singh". It's perfectly legal.

The point is that for those who qualify, it's ridiculously easy to get a visa under the EEA regulations, rather than national immigration laws, and (to add insult to injury for those who don't qualify), the visas are granted free of charge.

Edited February 22, 2009 by Eff1n2ret

[londonthai]

Hi LaLa my son who is a senior Immigation Officer at Heathrow is staying with me here in Thailand on holiday and I put this very question to him today.. Your girlfriend would be travelling to France on a Schengen Visa and the British Immigration authorities will have notified the following countries and as the extract says she will be barred: see the following...............

In general you will be barred for ten years from entry to 25 European States which participate in the Schengen Agreement.

If she reports her passport stolen in Thailand and re applies (apparently this is a very common practice) sufficient records are kept on UK and Schengen countries (anti terrorisim) to know she is committing an offence.

I personally thought there was no check on departure at Uk airports but airlines are linked up with immigration (hence they see your visa) and a direct link report is sent back.

The Uk isnt a member of the Schengen agreement, but Immigration and Customs work very closely with the countries above.

this very strong rules would apply to a serious criminal and not an overstayer.

there is a very small chance anybody will be checking visas on departure, airline staff does not do it.

without even changing her passport (if it's still valid for more than 6 months) your girlfriend can apply for a shengen visa at french consulate and after marriage for eea (which is free and easy to get)

[7by7]

Although passports are not generally checked upon leaving the UK, she will have had an entry stamp placed in her passport when she arrived in the UK and will have an entry stamp placed in her passport upon arrival in Thailand. Any official who then checks her passport will be able to see the 3 year gap between her arrival in the UK and her arrival back in Thailand and will want an explanation.

As Eff1n2ret says, the simplest and easiest way to proceed would be to marry her in Thailand and then apply to the UK for an EEA family permit for her rather than a French settlement visa; unless you are leaving the UK yourself to return to France. Remember that a neither a French settlement visa nor a Schengen visa will allow her entry to the UK.

Whichever option she takes, she will need to explain her overstay. Trying to hide it or lie about wont work and could easily result in a long term ban from whichever country she does apply to.

[LALA75]

No Eff1n2ret, we're not planning to go back to the UK. I cannot stay in the UK after next year. There's a turnover in my company, and you cannot stay abroad more than a certain number of year. I already got in touch with a french lawyer. He believes she can get a visa for France, as long as we are completely transparent when she applies. I don't expect it to be easy, but for now I'm more worried about her return to Thailand. Nevertheless, I will consider your suggestion of an EEA Family permit. Thanks.

[Eff1n2ret]

Although passports are not generally checked upon leaving the UK,

That's not true. For at least the last 2 years there's been a passport inspection by immigration officers at Terminal 3 when I have left. It's just behind the security screens at the entrance to the departure lounge, and I think they have similar arrangements at all the major airports. It's not the same as the old embarkation control which was abandoned in the early-mid nineties as a cost-saving measure, but they've re-instated a check principally to identify asylum applicants who are leaving, so as they can add them to the total of "failed asylum seeker" removals and boost their figures. Similarly, they could hand the OP's G/f a notice as an overstayer when she leaves, and count that as a "removal", but it shouldn't make any difference to an application to return here as his spouse.

But honesty is the best policy. I don't know what weight the French authorities will place on a 3-year overstay in the UK regarding an application for settlement there. I suspect not very much, as the main criterion will be the strength of the relationship. As the OP has taken the proper legal advice he doesn't need much from us.

[LALA75]

I have taken advice, but my french sollicitor has no idea of what the thai authorities are doing with the passeport of people who have been overstayer abroad and come back in Thailand. I'm still concerned they could take her passeport away from her, at least for a few months, preventing her to apply for any kind of visa. Any more informations on that welcome. Thanks

[7by7]

If you are going to be in the UK until next year then applying for an EEA family permit for her to join you in the UK seems the best option. See Chapter 21 - The European dimension

Although this link is for applications to the UK, the same rules apply to other EEA states, so if she joins you in the UK this year then she will be entitled to another EEA family permit to move with you to France next year. See Para 21.4.8.

BTW, although the UK and the RoI are not fully signed up to the Schengen agreement, they are signed up to the information sharing part; so any attempt to hide her overstay from the French authorities, should she apply to France, could easily be discovered.

I think it extremely unlikely that the Thai authorities would confiscate her passport. However, if she were to 'lose' it in an attempt to hide her overstay then they may be reluctant to issue her a new one.

Eff1n2ret, I know that some passports are checked upon leaving the UK, which is why I said 'generally' and if you are saying that yours has always been checked then I take your word for it. However, not all are checked; I know several people, both British and non-British, who have left the UK within the last 2 years without having to show their passports to anyone after they have checked in with their carrier. Airline check in staff do check passports to ensure that the passenger will be admitted at the other end. Whether they would notice an overstay and if so whether they would inform immigration, I can't say.

[PhilHarries]

Airline check in staff do check passports to ensure that the passenger will be admitted at the other end. Whether they would notice an overstay and if so whether they would inform immigration, I can't say.

Whilst that is true for, say, a UK national travelling to Thailand where they may check for a visa would they similarly check a Thai national's passport where obviously there is no need for a visa? Having said that I have checked in for many flights to Thailand with a one way ticket and no visa (30 day exemption stamp entry) with an onward ticket via another airline. Never once have the check in staff queried this although it is a mandatory requirement for the 30 day stamp. As an aside I've also never been asked for the ticket at immigration in Thailand (Suvarnabhumi) but they only seem to check at land crossings.

Nobody has answered the question; Would she be better contacting British immigration and telling them of her position and intention to leave the country or should she just turn up at the airport? Does the UK have the equivalent of the IDC or would they just take the evidence of a confirmed ticket and leave her free to get to the airport on the day?

Maybe the OP could call immigration and ask a hypothetical question about an unidentified person in that situation then make a decision based on the answer. IMO it is better to be completely open and up front when dealing with these people so I would advise that approach whatever the outcome.

[7by7]

Airline check in staff do check passports to ensure that the passenger will be admitted at the other end. Whether they would notice an overstay and if so whether they would inform immigration, I can't say.

Whilst that is true for, say, a UK national travelling to Thailand where they may check for a visa would they similarly check a Thai national's passport where obviously there is no need for a visa?

They certainly check the personal data page, or at least they always have for my wife and daughter. I have never noticed them looking at the visa pages, but that doesn't mean that they don't.

Personally, I feel that there is no need to inform the UKBIA of her overstay while she is still in the UK, though she obviously should mention and explain it on any future application. The fact that she is leaving the UK voluntarily before being caught and is now making attempts to regularise her status will, IMHO, act in her favour.

Trying to hide it and being caught will be disastrous for her.

[ubonjoe]

I have taken advice, but my french sollicitor has no idea of what the thai authorities are doing with the passeport of people who have been overstayer abroad and come back in Thailand. I'm still concerned they could take her passeport away from her, at least for a few months, preventing her to apply for any kind of visa. Any more informations on that welcome. Thanks

They would not take her passport. They would have no legal authority to do that.

It would take a lot of legal steps for them to confiscate a passport and certainly not for an overstay in another country.

It would be a different case if she was to be deported by the UK and the Thai goverment was involved in someway (IE: paid for her tickett). They probably would take the legal steps to do it.

[Eff1n2ret]

I have taken advice, but my french sollicitor has no idea of what the thai authorities are doing with the passeport of people who have been overstayer abroad and come back in Thailand. I'm still concerned they could take her passeport away from her, at least for a few months, preventing her to apply for any kind of visa. Any more informations on that welcome. Thanks

Your french solicitor is just covering himself by declining to advise on a matter of which he has no knowledge or experience. That doesn't mean that there's likely to be a problem. The consensus here is that if your g/f travels with the valid Thai passport with which she left Thailand the IO's in Bangkok aren't going to be the slightest bit interested in her. That's the best advice you're going to get.

No way should she notify her presence here to UKBA before leaving. She should just buy a ticket, turn up at the airport and leave. As I said previously, she will probably be interviewed by a minion as she enters the departure lounge and they may give her a notice that she's an overstayer. If she ever wanted to return to the UK as a visitor independently of you, that would be a problem, but it should have little bearing on an application for you to settle in France together. In fact, the time you have spent together in the UK is the best evidence you have of a genuine relationship, so do not attempt to conceal the overstay.

Incidentally, you didn't say whether you will be travelling with her, but if she's on her own she should not be scared about any encounter with UKBA officers. If she has a genuine passport there are no immigration powers to prevent someone leaving the UK, so they can huff and puff, but it won't make any difference to your long-term plans.

[LALA75]

That's another thing I was wondering. If it's better or not to go with her when she returns. On one hand, I know she will be scared and I'm more able than her to deal with any pressure the immigration officers could try to put on her. But at the same time, the thai immigration officers could take offence of the presence of a foreigner with her and make us even more problems. I've never been to Thailand yet, so maybe I think badly of them!

[7by7]

All the Thai immigration officers will be interested in is that she is a Thai citizen and has a valid passport. Her overstay in the UK will not concern them at all; unless, as previously said, she is actually deported from the UK at the Thai governments expense.

The only other possibility of problems with the Thai authorities is if she tries to cover up her overstay by 'losing' her passport.

Having said that I recommend that if at all possible you go with her. Thailand is a wonderful place, and you are sure to enjoy the trip. Also, you are contemplating marriage to her; don't you want to see her home and meet her family?

[LALA75]

7 by7

Of course, I'm really looking forward to go to Thailand. I was just thinking I could join her later. But as what you said reassured me, I think we'll go together