Thai Army Chief Denies Existence Of Secret American Prison

[gbt71fa]

You people are truly paranoid dingleberries.

[Dap]

Thai army chief denies existence of secret American prison

General Anupong Paochinda. Photo: MCOT

BANGKOK: -- Thai army chief General Anupong Paochinda on Wednesday strongly denied reports that a secret United States prison existed in Thailand where suspected terrorists were held.

The denial followed a report in the Bangkok Post newspaper that documents supplied to the American Civil Liberties Union under the Freedom of Information Act reveal that a secret jail existed in Thailand, where some suspects were tortured for information.

"I can say 1 million per cent that a secret jail like this has not existed in Thailand," General Anupong said.

The US Justice Department has admitted that 92 tape recordings of aggressive CIA interrogations - far more than previously known - were destroyed after news reports of CIA torture in secret prisons appeared four years ago, news reports said earlier this week.

-- DPA 2009-03-04

Whaddya' spose "aggressive" means?

[dukkha]

As thai boy say me sauna...you wait me here...maybe you wait me here in prison yes...??

[Dap]

Info obtained by torture is crap. People will say anything to stop the torture. Doesn't mean they are telling the truth. I am ashamed of my fellow Americans who rationalize torture. Happily, you lot are out of fashion.

Unfortunately, the information gathered to save lives is generally not offered without some means of coercion. There have been times in my life where myself and my mates could have used that info sooner rather than later. "Secret" or not, I submit (IMHO) they are necessary.

[MsFigure]

Info obtained by torture is crap. People will say anything to stop the torture. Doesn't mean they are telling the truth. I am ashamed of my fellow Americans who rationalize torture. Happily, you lot are out of fashion.

Unfortunately, the information gathered to save lives is generally not offered without some means of coercion. There have been times in my life where myself and my mates could have used that info sooner rather than later. "Secret" or not, I submit (IMHO) they are necessary.

Of course they will deny the existence of secret jails...... Just like the US denies there are secret jails (concentration camps) all over the United States.

Google "REX 84" if you don't know what I'm talking about.

[jerryb78]

Info obtained by torture is crap. People will say anything to stop the torture. Doesn't mean they are telling the truth. I am ashamed of my fellow Americans who rationalize torture. Happily, you lot are out of fashion.

Unfortunately, the information gathered to save lives is generally not offered without some means of coercion. There have been times in my life where myself and my mates could have used that info sooner rather than later. "Secret" or not, I submit (IMHO) they are necessary.

Of course they will deny the existence of secret jails...... Just like the US denies there are secret jails (concentration camps) all over the United States.

Google "REX 84" if you don't know what I'm talking about.

as fas as anybody is consern, those prisoner in secret jail does not exist. they are faceless and has no name. when we are thru with them and they are no longer useful, put two round in the back of the head and give them a shallow unmark grave. i'll be gald to lend them my .45.

Edited March 4, 2009 by jerryb78

[dude007]

why does media insist calling it "tough interrogations" or "aggressive interrogations" when it is plain and simple torture?

If Thailand assisted the US in extracting information from terrorists that helped save lives, then all I can say is 'Thank you Thailand."

wait venturalaw until you are yourself being questioned by these torture-boys. You will remember what your comments were on this post! It surprises me that you support these activities which are the most blatant way of denying any's rights and human dignity. Guess how many of us are believing in this Thai lie...

[Jingthing]

I completely disagree with your statement that 'Most Muslims LIKE Obama." Call me an idealist, but I just can not fathom that concept.

Maybe like is too strong a word, but they certainly have an OPEN MIND about him, unlike the last disastrous gun toting cowboy. Do a repeat of Abu Graib and all that potential is down the drain.

[PawyiLee]

Army chief denies existence of secret US jail in Thailand

***

"There's no secret jail for torturing terrorist suspects in (the northeast Thailand province of) Udon Thani," Gen. Anupong said. "There's no secret place in Udon Thani. Anybody can visit every district or village."

***

He's right; they were choppered from Ubon RTAFB to an army camp west of Yasothon. No prisoners there now, of course, and you can visit the army camp to play golf!

[lio]

Hi

I was in Udon in about 2005, and I met 2 American Soldiers, at night having fun with girls, in front of a massage parlor, one of the 2 was armed, he had a large shirt, he bend down to take off his shoes and i saw that he was armed.

I knew there was in the past a military installation(radio station), and for what I know had been converted, so I tought that the lie was just about that.

Connecting now, with this news I guess there could easily be this secret jail.

[teletiger]

The general was last seen hobbling away on crutches......after shooting himself in the foot.

Regards.

[johnefallis]

No CIA prisoners brought here since 2003 - Bangkok Post, January 22, 2008

...Thaksin Shinawatra, the prime minister at the time of the interrogations, has always denied that there was any CIA "base" or "prison" in Thailand. Foreign sources have told the Bangkok Post that the denials were technically correct.

The interrogations - or torture - of al-Qaeda suspects were carried out at so-called safe houses on a military base in Thailand, the sources said...

Funny, this link is suddenly not able to be found. ??? Censure in effect?

[freddiefunk]

No CIA prisoners brought here since 2003 - Bangkok Post, January 22, 2008

...Thaksin Shinawatra, the prime minister at the time of the interrogations, has always denied that there was any CIA "base" or "prison" in Thailand. Foreign sources have told the Bangkok Post that the denials were technically correct.

The interrogations - or torture - of al-Qaeda suspects were carried out at so-called safe houses on a military base in Thailand, the sources said...

Funny, this link is suddenly not able to be found. ??? Censure in effect?

The site probably contained some pornography.

[teletiger]

No CIA prisoners brought here since 2003 - Bangkok Post, January 22, 2008

...Thaksin Shinawatra, the prime minister at the time of the interrogations, has always denied that there was any CIA "base" or "prison" in Thailand. Foreign sources have told the Bangkok Post that the denials were technically correct.

The interrogations - or torture - of al-Qaeda suspects were carried out at so-called safe houses on a military base in Thailand, the sources said...

Funny, this link is suddenly not able to be found. ??? Censure in effect?

\

First repayment on 500 million Baht...well spent.

Regards

[freddiefunk]

Thai army chief denies existence of secret American prison

General Anupong Paochinda. Photo: MCOT

BANGKOK: -- Thai army chief General Anupong Paochinda on Wednesday strongly denied reports that a secret United States prison existed in Thailand where suspected terrorists were held.

The denial followed a report in the Bangkok Post newspaper that documents supplied to the American Civil Liberties Union under the Freedom of Information Act reveal that a secret jail existed in Thailand, where some suspects were tortured for information.

"I can say 1 million per cent that a secret jail like this has not existed in Thailand," General Anupong said.

The US Justice Department has admitted that 92 tape recordings of aggressive CIA interrogations - far more than previously known - were destroyed after news reports of CIA torture in secret prisons appeared four years ago, news reports said earlier this week.

-- DPA 2009-03-04

Whaddya' spose "aggressive" means?

It's going to be embarrassing when the 93rd tape is found with a "welcome to Udon Thani" sign in the background of the video.

[Pseacraft]

Who cares? War is hel_l and one must do all they can do to make the other poor dumb sob die for his country. Those who fight wars know they are the last option because humanity does not exist. Stop trying to inject what can not exist. Prisons are meant to be punishment not recreation centers. Could care less.

Armed American troops in civilian clothes? I doubt that. They probably are retired or former troops from special forces who work for a US Joint Task Force out of Camp Smith whose purpose in life is to provide training and assistance to the (in this case) Thai Police (possibly the PARU) in counter narcotics enforcement. They are a good bunch.

There are reasons things are "secret" one is because you really don't want to know about them. Those who do feel the need to stick their noses where they don't belong need to go out and get a life, get laid or have a good cold beer. What happens in the black stays in the black, if you ain't got the t-shirt or the patch, tough you don't need to know. Period.

[WitawatWatawit]

He might be a brother of that high ranking ploitician lady who a few years ago stated after visiting Pattay that she has not visited any signs of prostitution ....

Can we put this canard (repeated by Aussimike) to rest, please? The politician concerned was Paveena Hongsakul, an intelligent and genuinely committed woman who was sadly misquoted -- she never actually said those words. That has been acknowledged by journalists who were there at the time (several of whom produced tape recordings, so I'm led to believe), local journalist associations, the mainstream media and various others.

If you want to make a reference to ding-a-ling comments of this nature, the best one harks back to the Bangkok police commissioner some 15 years back (I think) who famously said (and this is verified by EVERY journalist who was there at the time) that "there are no brothels in Bangkok". Rates right up there with the senior Education Ministry official who told a major international conference of world-leading educators that "the Thai education system doesn't need to be reformed - it's already the best in the world."

As for the secret prisons, you'd be a fool to believe they don't exist. But where the heck can you get the proof? The book "Air America" gave enough indications of clandestine operations going on in Thailand during the Vietnam War - so to my way of thinking, there's no way the Thai military with it's decades of ongoing connections with the US military (Cobra Gold and all that, and officers being trained in the US) can be believed.

Witawatawit

[SmellyCat]

why does media insist calling it "tough interrogations" or "aggressive interrogations" when it is plain and simple torture?

If Thailand assisted the US in extracting information from terrorists that helped save lives, then all I can say is 'Thank you Thailand."

And that means that you are evil and an enemy of humanity.

I have no other words for those who condone torture.

[SmellyCat]

I fully support the majority of Muslims, as I do people of all faiths. How much shame Muslims must feel to have maniacal zealots in the name of the Muslim faith be so utterly destructive to humanity as to plan and carry out the deaths of thousands of innocents. And therefore, I completely disagree with your statement that 'Most Muslims LIKE Obama." Call me an idealist, but I just can not fathom that concept.

Although your statements are not completely accurate, even if true, it would pale in comparison to the millions of innocents killed by the "christians" of the USA.

[SmellyCat]

why does media insist calling it "tough interrogations" or "aggressive interrogations" when it is plain and simple torture?

If Thailand assisted the US in extracting information from terrorists that helped save lives, then all I can say is 'Thank you Thailand."

At last, a single voice of reason among the string of twerps whining for the human rights of sub-humans to plot our deaths. What these limp-wristed whiners mistakenly confuse as being 'humane' is unadulterated stupidity...

Yes, if they caught someone planning to bomb the area where my family lives, I would agree to at least their thumbs being cut off. Terrorists are not people who deserve humane treatment. (BTW, I am not American.)

Spoken like a true nazi.

[Snowdog]

why does media insist calling it "tough interrogations" or "aggressive interrogations" when it is plain and simple torture?

your right they should of just beheaded the guys like they would do to us

[Spee]

why does media insist calling it "tough interrogations" or "aggressive interrogations" when it is plain and simple torture?

If Thailand assisted the US in extracting information from terrorists that helped save lives, then all I can say is 'Thank you Thailand."

And that means that you are evil and an enemy of humanity.

I have no other words for those who condone torture.

This response is a shining example of how naive, blind-eyed, judgmental individuals ignore the realities of the world we live in. Humans are by nature capable of being cruel, almost assuredly much much more cruel than you can possibly imagine. At the same time, humans sometimes need to use extraordinary means to prevent one group of people from performing cruel acts upon another. The question is whether or not the ends justify the means.

As the US has not been victimized with another islamo-fanatic terror attack since 9-11, in my opinion the ends do justify the means. This has not been from lack of trying. There have been several plots around the world, which have been detected and prevented because of intelligence acquired in Gitmo and clandestine prisons. As these are well documented, and it is widely acknowledged that many thousands of lives were likely saved, the ends do justify the means.

Turn a blind eye if you want to. The simple fact remains that the world is full of people who are inherently bad and ill-willed, despite the fact that they may believe in their own minds that they are correct and just. It takes people who are inherently courageous and good-willed to deal these others. In the end, we all face our eternal judgment.

But as far as life on earth and living in a world filled with bad people go, better for good people to do what is necessary to deal with bad people, than to turn a blind eye and deaf ear to what these bad people are proven to be capable of doing to peaceful, civil people.

The Jack Nicholson character in "A Few Good Men" comes to mind, when he talks about those who enjoy the freedoms that his efforts help to provide but then they feel obligated to question or defame the actions and character of those who make the effort. We have the right to voice our opinions and protest things that we don't agree with, but some of the opinions in this thread border on major league hypocrisy. Your's is one of them.

[DMasut]

...and I can say 2 million per cent a secret base hasn't existed... because it isn't a secret anymore

I KNOW you are 100 million % correct.

Funny part is that it was only secret to Americans living in the USA. Seems almost every Thai person I know living in or around these prisons knew about it.

I guess it is true in any military service... The Generals are always the LAST to know.

Especially about "military intelligence" (contradiction in terms).

[bdenner]

Ah yes! But can "anybody" visit the Voice of America radio station just outside of Ban Dung in Udon Thani Province?

Me thinks not.

Yep, AND not one watt of VoA transmission has come out of that place in the 8 years I've been up here. Very large area, very secure, very secret and uses truck loads of power from there own, dedicated high voltage transmission lines. The transformer/switch yard is adjacent to the road and you can hear it humming. Anyway I very rarely see anyone (other than guards) coming or going so who knows what it is.

Google Earth:

17deg 40 31.08N

103deg 12 01.10E

[DMasut]

why does media insist calling it "tough interrogations" or "aggressive interrogations" when it is plain and simple torture?

If Thailand assisted the US in extracting information from terrorists that helped save lives, then all I can say is 'Thank you Thailand."

And that means that you are evil and an enemy of humanity.

I have no other words for those who condone torture.

This response is a shining example of how naive, blind-eyed, judgmental individuals ignore the realities of the world we live in. Humans are by nature capable of being cruel, almost assuredly much much more cruel than you can possibly imagine. At the same time, humans sometimes need to use extraordinary means to prevent one group of people from performing cruel acts upon another. The question is whether or not the ends justify the means.

As the US has not been victimized with another islamo-fanatic terror attack since 9-11, in my opinion the ends do justify the means. This has not been from lack of trying. There have been several plots around the world, which have been detected and prevented because of intelligence acquired in Gitmo and clandestine prisons. As these are well documented, and it is widely acknowledged that many thousands of lives were likely saved, the ends do justify the means.

Turn a blind eye if you want to. The simple fact remains that the world is full of people who are inherently bad and ill-willed, despite the fact that they may believe in their own minds that they are correct and just. It takes people who are inherently courageous and good-willed to deal these others. In the end, we all face our eternal judgment.

But as far as life on earth and living in a world filled with bad people go, better for good people to do what is necessary to deal with bad people, than to turn a blind eye and deaf ear to what these bad people are proven to be capable of doing to peaceful, civil people.

The Jack Nicholson character in "A Few Good Men" comes to mind, when he talks about those who enjoy the freedoms that his efforts help to provide but then they feel obligated to question or defame the actions and character of those who make the effort. We have the right to voice our opinions and protest things that we don't agree with, but some of the opinions in this thread border on major league hypocrisy. Your's is one of them.

I take it you are not living in the USA or haven't had to "voice you opinion" and then re-enter the US via "Homeland Security" (Didn't the NAZI have a similar program? I think they called them the brown shirt "Youth League"...uniforms are hauntingly similar except US colors are Blue and White vs. Brown and Black...not to be confused with a "Black and Tan" which would taste really good about now... Oh yeah!!... and the SS... but in the US they call it the I...R... S.

What made the "BUSH" administration so NAZI like wasn't that they 'in fact' tortured, renditioned and killed "suspected" combatants and terrorists. It was the 100,000's innocent women, children and contrary to what U.S. Attorney Gloria Allred or Gloria Steinem (GOOGLE IT) would have you believe, innocent men killed by our shock and awe, tortured because of their profile got beaten, jailed and tortured. who were nothing more than people like dolphins getting caught up in the tuna fishermen's nets, only for the fisherman to say "IT COULDN'T BE HELPED" which we know now can be avoided by slightly changing fishing nets and being more vigilant in saving them.

Terrorist...yes send our "Special Forces" out quietly to do what the do best. KICK BAD GUY A--!

But don't claim innocent lives as "collateral damage" as a scape goat... then lie to us about secret prisons (terrorists organizations already knew about)... why keep it a SECRET!??! TO PROTECT US?!... or to avoid explaining where the 100's of billions of our tax money (U.S. Citizens) were going while avoiding 'public view' for fear of negative response.

The U.S. citizens have lost many of their "Constitutional" rights during this last Presidential Administration... all under the guise of "FREEDOM and THE WAR ON TERRORISM"

WHAT A LOAD OF CROCK!!! Most people in most U.S. Embassies around the world given proper anonymity would tell you the same.

Coming back to the GENERAL that didn't know... We pay Thailand for the use of land for military operations on a "don't ask, don't tell" basis not only to keep our operations 'secret'... if we can actually ever do it, but more importantly to provide...as in this case..."plausible" deniability which is crucial in matters of National, Military and Diplomatic security.

I am sure the way this relationship was set up, that no direct words were stated on what was going to be done on these bases.

Like your best friend asking to borrow your car to 'run some errands'...you either trust him enough to lend the car...or you don't.

Thailand trusted the USA enough to lend/lease the bases.... what we did with them was our business and RESPONSIBILITY.

I applaude the intent and risks the serviceman of the world involved have put into the effort to do the right thing... and in fact, Thailand's military played a wonderfully "humanitarian" role in Iraq that they will not get as much well-deserved credit for.

I just have a hard time with all the wrongs we made and continue to make, then try to deny it.

I believe President Obama truly wants to correct these things, but whether the Republicans can get off their backsides and support the AMERICAN PEOPLE and WORLD instead of turning "One nation under God" into The Republican nation under their Christian God" remains to be seen.

WELL THAT SHOULD BE ENOUGH TO PUT ME ON THE "WATCHLIST", UNLESS I AM ALREADY ON IT! .... yep, definitely enough... see you at GITMO... is Martin Sheen being held there with the Dixie Girls still?

Well Pres. Obama has promised to do a RAMBO and get the good guys out, and give the bad guys a chance at a fair trial...BECAUSE IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO!!! Hear that GW?!

God Bless America...why? BECAUSE WE NEED IT!!!

Edited March 4, 2009 by DMasut

[DMasut]

Ah yes! But can "anybody" visit the Voice of America radio station just outside of Ban Dung in Udon Thani Province?

Me thinks not.

Yep, AND not one watt of VoA transmission has come out of that place in the 8 years I've been up here. Very large area, very secure, very secret and uses truck loads of power from there own, dedicated high voltage transmission lines. The transformer/switch yard is adjacent to the road and you can hear it humming. Anyway I very rarely see anyone (other than guards) coming or going so who knows what it is.

Google Earth:

17deg 40 31.08N

103deg 12 01.10E

It's a MIB (Men in Black) substation silly!

Edited March 4, 2009 by DMasut

[mancon]

I just love this bullshit! Who would expect any responsible people to go out to the press and confess that there are in fact "black sites" in Thailand or any other place? It is as dumb as when reporters qoute terrorists or criminals stating that they are inocent, of course they say that since it is in their own interests! Surprise!!!!

[chalvy]

Info obtained by torture is crap. People will say anything to stop the torture. Doesn't mean they are telling the truth. I am ashamed of my fellow Americans who rationalize torture. Happily, you lot are out of fashion.

Well said. It goes without saying that torture or other extreme measures used to obtain information is a flawed process that yields little in the way of actionable intelligence. The only thing torture does is bring the US down to the same level of its enemies and, if history is any guide, once the major power succumbs to the tactics of its smaller rival it is doomed to failure. What the US needs are smart and innovative commanders and tactics designed to combat the terrorists on the ground- bringing the populace over to their side, isolating the terrorists within their communities and strengthening governments who support them while punishing governments who support the terrorist. Its a long road that won't necessarily yield fruit for years if not decades. One thing is certain though--- stray from the path of the righteous and you become the damned!

Anyone interested in seeing the way torture can poison the mission should watch the excellent documentary-- "Standard Operating Procedure" that details the horrible mess that was Abu Ghraib.

[aussimike]

I do not want to sound cynical. But there is not one army in the world who admits to a "SECRET" jail. That is why it is called secret. The Thai army however does not have the advantage of doubt on their side. After all PM Abhisit did not even know IF the Thai army was holding boat people from Burma in custody. The bottom line is that the army is a state in a state in Thailand.

The bottom line is that Thailand is a state in the army, shurely? Ed

Just wonder how long you'r been living here to believe everything u read in the papers. Do u really expect us to believe that the PM did'nt know what was going on down south with the Burmese - come on - the greatest face saving device here is to just say "I was not aware of that or - the most commonly used one - "That is not true - it could not happen here!!"

Thailand and the US have had very very strong military ties going back many many years - sorry we are not convinced that the little US secrets were not known to the locals - or did they bring the detainees in on a tourist visa ?? 555 -- pity is that most of the MP and the generals believe their own press - or is it a case of this being so secret that if they told someone they would have to kill them -

[Briggsy]

I do not want to sound cynical. But there is not one army in the world who admits to a "SECRET" jail. That is why it is called secret. The Thai army however does not have the advantage of doubt on their side. After all PM Abhisit did not even know IF the Thai army was holding boat people from Burma in custody. The bottom line is that the army is a state in a state in Thailand.

The bottom line is that Thailand is a state in the army, shurely? Ed

I think you mean the Thai Army is a state within a state feeding off the nation coffers whilst unanswerable to anyone, surely?