Something Eek Said In Another Thread.

[LadyHeather]

I can't say that I get rude stares or comments from western men here in Thailand but then I don't really pay attention either. Usually I am busy doing my own thing and if they have a problem with me for some reason, well, then that is their problem.

I find that the lower paying the job, and the more stress it appears to offer (like 7-11), the ruder the staff. But then, if I had to work that job, I doubt I'd be the epitome of happiness and sunshine either. I try to show a little empathy for those in thankless, poorly paid jobs. There but for the grace of god....

Personally, what gets to me in Bangkok is the complete inability for most people to grasp the idea that people must get off the Skytrain before others can get on. Why that is such a problem, I don't know. But, if I am tired, grumpy and feeling fed up, that is the one thing that can really put me on edge. That and the escalator issue.

But, usually, like Suzi, if I am not tired, not grumpy and not feeling fed up, I can handle it. On the bad days I try not to focus on the negative as that will just make it worse and think about the positive. Like, I could be in Shanghai rather than Bangkok

[Pearlgirl]

"You know are in Thailand when some Western men look at you with contempt, purely because you are a white Western female (sorry, but thats true). (But, at the same time, i know some really lovely Western men who are real gentlemen..and have had some nice simple interactions, such as men holding open a door for me. Always return the gesture with a smile and a thank you. )." Quote from Eeek in another thread

During my trips to Thailand when I have seen white women, I have never thought of them with contempt, what I have wondered though is life "tougher" for them than a white guys. How are they treated by the Thais? How are they treated by other ex-pats? What unique things does an ex-pat lady face here?

I really hope that no one know one finds this question offensive, I have always been curious. My gut tells me that the ladies would probably face more challenges in Thailand than men, call me a chauvanist if you will, and I think highly of them.

Hi everyone

This is my first post - I read Thaivisa all the time, but haven't had enough gumption to reply to any of the posts. But, this one sort of hits home with me so here goes. My farang husband and I (I'm farang too) have been enjoying visiting Thailand for about 8 years now. In a couple of years we will be retiring to the north of thailand - for the most part, we are both really excited about that. We spend about 2 months/year there now. We've decided to live in a small village outside of the city, and its a very pleasant place to live. Our Thai neighbours and farang neighbours are all pretty nice people. We've found, me especially, that when we visit the city or go to restaurants, etc. etc. as a couple, everything goes smoothly and we haven't run into a purposely rude person yet - whether Thai or farang. As a matter of fact I've found the Thai women friendly and helpful, whether I'm with my husband or I'm on my own.

I, on the other hand have experienced a number of stressful situations when I'm either alone or encourter some farang men. Some of our farang neighbours and others that we've met, seem to resent my presence - for the most part they try to get my husband to go out with them at night to bars or other places downtown, and have succeeded a couple of times when I wasn't around. I'm not impressed with this - its not the same as a group or a few men going out to a bar in our homelands, and we all know that.

I've also found that if we run into some farang man that we know, generally, I get mostly ignored - I'm not included in the conversations with them and they'll even go as far as to order a beverage for my husband but totally leave me out. My husband isn't necessarily at fault for any of this and will often speak up and say "***" would like blah blah to drink as well, and often will try to include me in the conversation. I'm not saying all farang men are like this, but there are quite a few that think that any man that lives in Thailand should have the freedom of lifestyle that they have - living with a young, cute, mostly sweet Thai girl that they boss around and use for sex and as a servant. They don't understand that a man and a women could actually move there, live with their western spouse, and be happy.

The reasons why we are moving there has a lot to do with the Thai culture, people, weather, cost of living, etc. etc. and I'm trying not to let these people get to me, but I can see its going to be a practice in patience and perhaps a lot of smiling? And maybe its just the few farang men that I've met there - I'm sure they aren't all like that.

[sbk]

Hmmm.... doesn't sound like the kind of acquaintance I would choose to keep. and herein lies the rub, you end up socializing with people that you would never have at home merely because of the fact that you are all foreigners in Thailand.

Only solution is to raise your standards, be polite but be firm that you will not socialize with people who treat you like dirt. I am sure your husband loves and respects you enough to feel the same.

[girlx]

I, on the other hand have experienced a number of stressful situations when I'm either alone or encourter some farang men.

strange story! but i do remember a few times when i met farang men who had huge chips on their shoulders towards western women here, so i believe it. i used to help my friend at his bar in koh chang and i actually had a couple of men (usually brits!) try to physically fight me simply because i was a white girl (and they were drunk and belligerent)! the thai guys stood up for me, thank 'god'... i also have had some seriously wacko farang men over the years write me horrible letters (via my blog and sites like this) denigrating farang women as being selfish, fat, greedy, and any number of other inane things. i suppose it is because thailand attracts a lot of men who were dissed in their homelands and arrive here to find out in the red light areas that they were charming, sexy brad pitt lookalikes the whole time!

overall, i find that the one group of people who is consistently rude to me is youngish thai women who work in shops or restaurants in bangkok, and i doubt that has to do with me being a farang woman, but more to do with their dissatisfaction with their lot in life.

Edited March 10, 2009 by girlx

[Ave]

Apart from the stares, what kind of rude comments do you get, specifically? I mean, I *do* get the odd "Learn how to drive!!!", but generally...

well..that 'learn how to drive!!!' is something you would want to take into consideration..

Edited March 10, 2009 by Ave

[Ave]

I, on the other hand have experienced a number of stressful situations when I'm either alone or encourter some farang men.

strange story! but i do remember a few times when i met farang men who had huge chips on their shoulders towards western women here, so i believe it. i used to help my friend at his bar in koh chang and i actually had a couple of men (usually brits!) try to physically fight me simply because i was a white girl (and they were drunk and belligerent)! the thai guys stood up for me, thank 'god'... i also have had some seriously wacko farang men over the years write me horrible letters (via my blog and sites like this) denigrating farang women as being selfish, fat, greedy, and any number of other inane things. i suppose it is because thailand attracts a lot of men who were dissed in their homelands and arrive here to find out in the red light areas that they were charming, sexy brad pitt lookalikes the whole time!

overall, i find that the one group of people who is consistently rude to me is youngish thai women who work in shops or restaurants in bangkok, and i doubt that has to do with me being a farang woman, but more to do with their dissatisfaction with their lot in life.

great funny post!

And I think it should be a lot easier to understand a person who went or is going through a great deal of suffering for several reasons, love delusions or financial struggles.

[Isee]

Amazing reading some of the concerns about how western women are viewed/treated by thai women and then reading what some western women think of thai women....

[Pearlgirl]

Hmmm.... doesn't sound like the kind of acquaintance I would choose to keep. and herein lies the rub, you end up socializing with people that you would never have at home merely because of the fact that you are all foreigners in Thailand.

Only solution is to raise your standards, be polite but be firm that you will not socialize with people who treat you like dirt. I am sure your husband loves and respects you enough to feel the same.

Thanks everyone for some words of encouragement and kindness. I agree that not socializing with people like that is the answer but the fact that we are in a foreign land looking to make friends, having neighbours and people you've met that you may or may not want to socialize with but sometimes its not avoidable. [ Part of the problem right now is that my husband is a person who likes a regular routine - he's always lived in the same city, he's been at the same job for over 20 years, he likes his coffee from a certain coffee shop everyday, etc. etc., and this move to Thailand is totally out of his "regular routine" (obviously), and he feels that he doesn't have any friends here and is willing to take on anyone that comes along. He's never had to experience having to change schools and city and start all over again, I'm pretty sure he has some friends since the first time he could talk. ] And the problem is that I'll have to socialize with them too because I certainly don't want to leave him alone with these guys and let them get into who-knows-what kind of trouble.

I suppose it'll all work out in the end. I've had enough moving experiences to realize that there are people out there that you'll get along with and some you won't, so you'll just have to work it out for yourself.

I have actually managed to make a few of my own friends - and they are Thai women. One is married to a Thai man and the other is a self-made single business woman. Both are pretty wonderful women and have never given me any grief - for the past 5 years they have been good friends. Maybe because I'm not a young woman in her 20's or 30's, I find that most Thai women, whatever age, are friendly and/or respectful. If, for instance, the 7-11 girl is a bit sharp, I totally understand that she's probably had to deal with a lot of tourists for the past 12-14 hours and she's tired and sick of rude and noisy tourists, and she just wants to go home. I haven't worked in the tourist industry in any capacity, but I can only imagine how tiring and annoying dealing with a lot of foreigners on a daily basis it can be.

Other than the odd farang man, I'm feeling real good about Thailand as a whole.

[carlosacao]

Personally, what gets to me in Bangkok is the complete inability for most people to grasp the idea that people must get off the Skytrain before others can get on. Why that is such a problem, I don't know. But, if I am tired, grumpy and feeling fed up, that is the one thing that can really put me on edge. That and the escalator issue.

But, usually, like Suzi, if I am not tired, not grumpy and not feeling fed up, I can handle it. On the bad days I try not to focus on the negative as that will just make it worse and think about the positive. Like, I could be in Shanghai rather than Bangkok

Hi, just got a kick out of reading the comment about the skytrain or about Shanghai, because my experience in China (I was there part time for 3 years) when it comes to trains or subways (including Shanghai trains) is that they are the worst most impolite people that I had ever seen in the planet (and I'd been in many countries), (the BKK Skytrain it's a model of extreme politeness when compared to China), in China you almost have to fight with a baseball bat to get in, so.... quite amused about your experience, anyway, just my 2 cents worth of input (with all due respect, just bringing another perspective and experience).

[davejonesbkk]

I'll chime in here because this topic has been on my mind lately. I can't speak for everyone else, but I've had a pretty difficult time. I came here a number of years ago with my boyfriend and had such a lovely time that I've returned, only this time on my own. My experience this time has been often terrible. I attribute it to the fact that there is not a white man at my side that people are busy catering to. I experience the occasional look of contempt from other farang. I suspect that they are idiots who truly believe that all Thai women are sweet little flowers compared to farang women. They are probably spending all their money on whores.

I am also the target con artists trying to scam me out of my money. At times it's terribly difficult to catch a taxi anywhere because I insist on using the meter. The drivers assume that because I'm young, Western, and blonde, that I'm a dumbass and will believe when they say that 450 baht is a good deal because there's "so much traffic" or it's "so far away". Obviously I know better and refuse, yet they will lie and try to pursuade me out of my wallet until they haven't any breath left to lie with. Sometimes I have to try 5 or 6 times before I can get a taxi that will just use the damned meter. I also have to pay attention to the route they are taking because sometimes they will attempt to take the "long" way to jack up the meter. The **** even have the nerve to act like they don't understand English when I object, though they were understanding English just fine during our casual conversation that THEY struck up only moments before. This type of crap applies not only to taxi drivers, but in a long list of other circumstances as well.

I am also treated like a piece of shit by so many Thai women. Whether it's the**** behind the counter at the 7-11 that I stopped frequenting because she rips items out of my hand, throws them in a bag and then throws the bag at me, or the ****who step right in front of me while I've been waiting in a long line at stores, or girls who simply roll their eyes as I walk by minding my own business, etc., the list goes on.

Maybe I'm too polite, but that's beginning to change because I'm actually getting sick of this place. In many ways, I can't wait to get back home to the country that treats me fairly, or at least when they treat me like shit it's for some reason other than the color of my skin.

I thought I loved this country, but now I see that the only reason people were being so nice on my last visit is because they were trying to get the money they assumed that my white boyfriend had plenty of. Now that I'm solo, there's no one who's presence keeps the hounds at bay.

Seriously, every day here I spend part of it enjoying the pleasant things that make it unique, and part of it in disgust by the people who make it vile and nasty.

I admit, I'm in a bad mood right now. But it's not because I woke up that way, it's because of the people who rained on what would have otherwise been a sunny day.

dam_n, you are having a rough time, dunno if I could put up with all of that for more than a few weeks.....

[SiamSuzi]

Oh yeah, and it gets worse. I almost was hit by a car last week. Yesterday I stepping into the elevator at a hospital in bandages and with tubes with blood collection cups on the end coming out of my shirt and hanging like necklaces, and getting into an elevator that had 2 monks, and some lady shoved me to the other side of the elevator. I guess she thought it would be a good idea to physically assault me post surgery to make sure that my purse didn't brush the robe of the almighty monk. Jeez, it's not like I didn't see them. It's not like I was even coming close. Seriously, I was in so much disarray that to have been shoved like that caused me to break down into tears right there. I mean, I had tubes coming out of my for hel_l's sake! Whatever. I'm leaving here soon. In all honestly, yeah there are a lot of cool things about Thailand, but I think the ugly things far outweigh the good ones. I'm treated FAR better in my own country, so I'll just be going back there. And then everyone wonders why so many Americans are so content to stay in their own country.

But don't get me wrong, I'm actually in a good mood right now. I'm just disappointed to learn that my experiences on my last trip here weren't accurate of what this place is really like. I've now accepted how it really is, and okay. It is what it is. I'll enjoy what I can, turn my back to the rest, and go on my way. Mai bpen rai, right?

Edited March 14, 2009 by SiamSuzi

[Jungian]

I think all ladies should be treated as ladies regardless of national origin. I think many Western men in Thailand have had bad experiences with Western ladies thus they have tried to demonize them resulting in such behavior. I look at it this way my Mother, grandmother and other family members are Western ladies and I would never dream of treating them with disrespect. As far as Asian ladies go in general one of my daughters (adopted for clarification not that it matters) is Chinese and the other is 1/2 Thai, I'm sure I wouldn't respond well if they were treated like "bar girls" nor would I be pleased if they brought home an ill mannered, uneducated slob of a boyfriend Thai, Western or otherwise.

[aussiechick]

I have been here 15 years and probably the rudest people I have met have been western men on holidays!!! I do live in Pattaya as a single white woman!!!!!! The conversation usually starts with a "What are you doing here?" with a tone that means "we don't want you here" - my expats friends just watch quietly - they have heard it all before. I start by politely explaing how long I have been here and that I work here. If they are gentleman the discussion is polite and interesting. If not it then becomes personal, along the lines of "well, you can't be getting any!" at this point my friends just move their drinks out of the way. I always ask Why? and gee its because I am white and they are just here for the Thai girls! Just BTW the really arrogant ones usually state "you must be a lesbian then" (here for the Thai women too)

I now have a standard reply that either shuts them up or they complain about my attitude and make stupid comments along the lines of "I won't be coming into this bar when she's here" to which point my friends and the bar owner usually start laughing.

My standard reply to these idiots "You see, I like Thai men and I don't have to pay for them" Their mouths drop open and they can't think of anything to say usually.

Apart from that I have a great cross section of friends - westerners - male and female, thais - male and female and from all walks of life and all ages.

And I am not leaving!!

Edited March 14, 2009 by aussiechick

[SiamSuzi]

Ah, cheers to you Jungian!

Actually, in the past few days I've been treated quite nicely be some farang men. I've been approached by 3 separate gentlemen who were quite nice and requested either my presence for lunch, an evening drink, or my telephone number. Manners, everyone should present with them regardless of to whom you are presenting yourself to. This is something that distinguishes us from animals, right?

[Ave]

I have been here 15 years and probably the rudest people I have met have been western men on holidays!!! I do live in Pattaya as a single white woman!!!!!! The conversation usually starts with a "What are you doing here?" with a tone that means "we don't want you here" - my expats friends just watch quietly - they have heard it all before. I start by politely explaing how long I have been here and that I work here. If they are gentleman the discussion is polite and interesting. If not it then becomes personal, along the lines of "well, you can't be getting any!" at this point my friends just move their drinks out of the way. I always ask Why? and gee its because I am white and they are just here for the Thai girls! Just BTW the really arrogant ones usually state "you must be a lesbian then" (here for the Thai women too)

I now have a standard reply that either shuts them up or they complain about my attitude and make stupid comments along the lines of "I won't be coming into this bar when she's here" to which point my friends and the bar owner usually start laughing.

My standard reply to these idiots "You see, I like Thai men and I don't have to pay for them" Their mouths drop open and they can't think of anything to say usually.

Apart from that I have a great cross section of friends - westerners - male and female, thais - male and female and from all walks of life and all ages.

And I am not leaving!!

good on ya girl!

I live in Pattaya too but I've not been in such close contact with that type of western man mainly because I don't earn enough money to go out much or I'm busy working.

I know and work with lots of western guys, though, but I have not had any similar conversation with them. On the contrary, we seem to share common feelings when talking about each other's Thai partners. You know, cultural issues or the good stuff that keeps us together. But when I drive through the fun areas I do get that look that says 'what are you doing here? surely you must have some dodgy boyfriend/toyboy, run some illegal business/lead an extreme lifestyle, etc..'. That's amusing and exciting! Let's keep them guessing..

[desi]

I think many Western men in Thailand have had bad experiences with Western ladies thus they have tried to demonize them resulting in such behavior.

You are spot on. And while I have enormous pity for these guys, I go to great lengths to avoid being around them in my daily life. When I was on the market for accommodation, I searched for an area in BKK that is not saturated with those I've dubbed the Western Walking Wounded. I've never been to Pattaya for the same reason.

Every once in awhile I'll be on Suk or similar and I'll catch the attention of one of the WWW. It's an alarming sensation as all that hatred concentrated in my direction can be intense.

Ah, and before I forget, this forum has its fair share of those making harsh statements about Western women. Not so much now that the gals have become moderators, but it's still there.

I've had long conversations with some via email and they are honestly nice guys. But they were deeply hurt by women in their home countries and can't seem to let it go. A fair number lost money via divorce, and seems a chunk of their self-esteem went with it. Some brand all Western women with the same negative attributes as their ex(wives, girlfriends, whatever). I don't know how they tie this feeling in with their mothers, sisters, aunts and grandmothers.

Now that I've been here a few years, I'm equally surprised when I look up to find a Western man beaming, then flirting with me. That's something that happens often in the West but not so often in Thailand.

If I didn't avoid eye contact with Western men (edit) on the street, I'd be sure to notice more of one or the other. But that's one thing I've changed about the way I operate in Thailand. I'm shy anyway so it's not my nature to walk about looking directly at people I don't know, but even more than before, I now ignore Western men - (edit) strangers on the street - because I just don't want the possibility of their nastiness disrupting my fantastic day. And as long as I don't see it, it doesn't exist. Sad. Other Western women have said that they've started doing the same.

So guys, if you notice that some Western women ignore you, it's not really about you. We do love being around Western guys, but TIT.

Edited March 14, 2009 by desi

[Ave]

I think many Western men in Thailand have had bad experiences with Western ladies thus they have tried to demonize them resulting in such behavior.

Agree with you Jungian.

I feel for those who have bitter feelings for other farang ladies because they identify them with their exes with whom it didn't work out. I can imagine how harsh their life must have been back home and they come here to find their well deserved happiness like many others like them. I used to know a lovely guy in his 60s from England who lives around SE Asia since his wife died several years ago. He's been having a string of flings and never seems to settle with one girl. He said that all ladies are worthy of respect regardless of their backround. He treated each one of them like queens but he once quietly told me: "Nobody is going to replace my dear wife. We loved each other so much. She was the best thing that ever happened to me. I still miss her a lot, sometimes the pain is unbearable". Very sad having to look for a replacement all the time but that's the way he deals with it and it's not up to me to judge him.

[F1fanatic]

I think its time to get a grip here! A few of the male ex-pats may have had bad relationships with ex's in the West, but if they've been here for a while it's unlikely they haven't had worse experiences here!

There is therefore absolutely no excuse for them having a grudge against Western women unless the problem is something else entirely.

Can we also put aside the notion that these poor Western men have lost everything to their partner in the West. She would only have got 50% i.e. half of everything they have built up between them. He may be traumatised by this believing it was all his, but that is typical of a certain type of self-centred person.

[desi]

There is therefore absolutely no excuse for them having a grudge against Western women unless the problem is something else entirely.

Don't you read the various Thai forums? They are quite descriptive in their grudges towards Western women.

All in all you've made good points, that yes, it's time for them to get a grip. But I won't hold my breath...

[sbk]

Water off a ducks' back desi. I read those, have to unfortunately But I figure whatever their problem is, its their problem. I don't need to be their scapegoat do I? See, the thing is, it seems some people have difficulty in distinguishing the difference between those "that done them wrong" and everyone else who is similar.

So, you get men who had a bad experience or experiences mainly because they continue to make poor choices in the partner dept and don't see that its their own choices that are causing the problem, and they tar all with the same brush. You've got your western woman haters, you've got your Thai woman haters and then there's the men who have decided that all women are equally bad. And no, they usually aren't gay.

Its a pity and I do feel rather sorry for them for living such bitter lives, but that's their choice. There comes a time in every person's life when they have to look hard at themselves and take responsibility for their own choices, behavior, attitudes and issues without laying the blame on the rest of the world. Sadly, many people can't reach this level of maturity and find it easier to scapegoat others.

[desi]

sbk, ah, of course! You have to wade through all that cacca to delete, so by the time I come up here it's already gone. It's a good thing you are a tough cookie :-)

'Living bitter lives' is an excellent description.

[F1fanatic]

I've been on TV for a while but have entirely missed out on the 'how my woman in the West did me wrong'!

Please enlighten me!

[GrahamF]

I think many Western men in Thailand have had bad experiences with Western ladies thus they have tried to demonize them resulting in such behavior.

You are spot on. And while I have enormous pity for these guys, I go to great lengths to avoid being around them in my daily life. When I was on the market for accommodation, I searched for an area in BKK that is not saturated with those I've dubbed the Western Walking Wounded. I've never been to Pattaya for the same reason.

Every once in awhile I'll be on Suk or similar and I'll catch the attention of one of the WWW. It's an alarming sensation as all that hatred concentrated in my direction can be intense.

Ah, and before I forget, this forum has its fair share of those making harsh statements about Western women. Not so much now that the gals have become moderators, but it's still there.

I've had long conversations with some via email and they are honestly nice guys. But they were deeply hurt by women in their home countries and can't seem to let it go. A fair number lost money via divorce, and seems a chunk of their self-esteem went with it. Some brand all Western women with the same negative attributes as their ex(wives, girlfriends, whatever). I don't know how they tie this feeling in with their mothers, sisters, aunts and grandmothers.

Now that I've been here a few years, I'm equally surprised when I look up to find a Western man beaming, then flirting with me. That's something that happens often in the West but not so often in Thailand.

If I didn't avoid eye contact with Western men (edit) on the street, I'd be sure to notice more of one or the other. But that's one thing I've changed about the way I operate in Thailand. I'm shy anyway so it's not my nature to walk about looking directly at people I don't know, but even more than before, I now ignore Western men - (edit) strangers on the street - because I just don't want the possibility of their nastiness disrupting my fantastic day. And as long as I don't see it, it doesn't exist. Sad. Other Western women have said that they've started doing the same.

So guys, if you notice that some Western women ignore you, it's not really about you. We do love being around Western guys, but TIT.

It is sad, but I really get what you are saying! I find myself doing the same thing sometimes (avoiding western strangers) when I am in Thailand, you just never know what you are going to get. I have probably missed out on meeting some great people due to this. I think it depends on my mood, I have met some great "strangers" that I still maintain contact with to this day and they have enriched my life. I am speaking from a male perspective here, so maybe it's easier for me to disengage from an unpleasant meeting with another western guy than it is for a western woman to do so, I don't know for sure. Although, I think Boo and SBK might give me a run for my money when it comes to "disengaging"!

[GrahamF]

Oh yeah, and it gets worse. I almost was hit by a car last week. Yesterday I stepping into the elevator at a hospital in bandages and with tubes with blood collection cups on the end coming out of my shirt and hanging like necklaces, and getting into an elevator that had 2 monks, and some lady shoved me to the other side of the elevator. I guess she thought it would be a good idea to physically assault me post surgery to make sure that my purse didn't brush the robe of the almighty monk. Jeez, it's not like I didn't see them. It's not like I was even coming close. Seriously, I was in so much disarray that to have been shoved like that caused me to break down into tears right there. I mean, I had tubes coming out of my for hel_l's sake! Whatever. I'm leaving here soon. In all honestly, yeah there are a lot of cool things about Thailand, but I think the ugly things far outweigh the good ones. I'm treated FAR better in my own country, so I'll just be going back there. And then everyone wonders why so many Americans are so content to stay in their own country.

But don't get me wrong, I'm actually in a good mood right now. I'm just disappointed to learn that my experiences on my last trip here weren't accurate of what this place is really like. I've now accepted how it really is, and okay. It is what it is. I'll enjoy what I can, turn my back to the rest, and go on my way. Mai bpen rai, right?

Yeech! Sorry you've had such a bad time, I really feel for ya! Maybe you just need to get out of BKK for awhile and take a look around the rest of Thailand. One thing you haven't mentioned is your circle of friends, do you have many and can you lean on them if need be?

[eek]

I am really enjoying reading this topic. I also very much appreciate reading the male point of view too.

I also get what desi says about avoiding eye contact, although I try to not do that. But I also did that in my home country a bit too, as im also quite a shy person. Of course Im not trying to be rude, and if someone talks to me or is considerate to me (ie: holding open a door) I am always happy about that and respond back.

I also get what you mean about being surprised when you notice a western man showing a lot of interest. I realise that i generally assume most men, even if they find me attractive, have negative connotations about me and/or are interested in meeting an Thai lady. Just yesterday, I went up to Mae Sai to go across the border, and a young (younger than me im sure) and handsome Turkish man started talking to me. After a while I realised he was actually quite blatantly flirting with me. It hit me that I just naturally assume now that im not being thought of in that way.

One other thing i have noticed, is that when I have gone to a neighbouring country, I usually get a lot more attention. Seems to me that western men are more open to western women outside of Thailand. Not sure if others have felt that?

Anyway, to be honest, I never have enjoyed being cat-called, whistled at, or shouted at, so Thailand is a welcome relief from that attitude. However, it is always nice to be treated as a woman, and have pleasant interactions with men, no matter what country I am in, or what country they are from.

[SiamSuzi]

Graham, I've got a couple of friends in BKK and a cousin in Pattaya. I'm alright though. Just hardening up a bit and that's alright with me as I wouldn't want to be too fragile anyways.

I've noticed that some younger Mid Eastern guys and Africans don't hesitate to approach me and try to strike up friendly conversation, offer me a drink. Although, that may be due to my blondeness, and some of them assuming I'm a Russian girl (which I've been asked on numerous occasions).

I didn't really come here to meet men though, so I'm indifferent to them all anyways.

[eek]

I was asked before in Bangkok if i was Russian too SiamSuzi.. do you think its a euphemism? (I believe one of the girls here mentioned something like that once).

[TruthWillOut]

Interesting read this thread. all this farang man/farang women distrust is just odd. I mean, farang blokes mums must be farang women & they probably have sisters, aunt, neices & farang women must have dads or brother, uncle, nephews so why the hate?

[eek]

I dont think most women here hate or even dislike western men TruthWillOut. Just some of us are cautious, thats all. I have rarely read comments on here where western women are complaining, belittling, and using any excuse to get a dig in on western men (unless used in retaliation), and never heard it directly from women here. But yet, I have read a LOT of negative (and sometimes downright disgraceful) comments from western men here on ThaiVisa. Sometimes I have overhead conversations (with no intention of overhearing. Just some seem to not care who might hear them), about the comparison of western women and asian women in cafe's etc. Usually talking as though we are objects and not real people. Some going into really gross detail. Usually those men arent aware that im sitting nearby, and usually look sheepish if they notice me (but not always).

Thankfully its rare that I would hear something like that.

Thankfully too that I know a lot of lovely men, with normal attitudes toward women.

Western men who have little respect for Western women(or any nationality) do not cloud my judgement towards other western men, but reading negative comments and the occasional bad attitude do make me cautious.

[SiamSuzi]

Interesting read this thread. all this farang man/farang women distrust is just odd. I mean, farang blokes mums must be farang women & they probably have sisters, aunt, neices & farang women must have dads or brother, uncle, nephews so why the hate?

I distrust Thai people (women and men alike) far more than I distrust farang.

And Eek, yeah it's definitely a euphemism. My favorite response is "I'm American" and they don't bother me anymore.

Edited March 16, 2009 by SiamSuzi