Banks To Protect Atms Against Skimming Scams

[chrislarsson]

In France all debit and credit cards have a chip with pin code, better replace all the ATM's in Thailand, that will not happen soon, technology takes long time to get to a third world country

Is the pin code stored in the card? That sound like a very bad idea. I doubt that is the case.

[sedeflonga]

"For online users, both VISA and MasterCard use an online verification procedure based on '3-D Secure' that you should register your card(s) with. "Verified by VISA" and "SecureCode by MasterCard" are free services provided by the primary card issuers and supported by a growing amount of online vendors. Your bank that issued the VISA or MasterCard may not have pointed out this feature but you should go online and do it anyway."

I tried this yesterday with AirAsia and my Mastercard. I had virtually completed the while transaction when the "Verified by MC" pop-up told me 3 times I had incorrectly filled out the online form - I hadn't, obviously. So the system barred my credit card from using AirAsia. So Nok Air gets my business...

When will banks learn that they have to inform the customer before they do security checks, as they just louse up their own business and lose customers!

I totaly agree. I also tried to buy a Airasia ticket and the 'Verified by Visa" popup came. It came without warning. When I buy outside thailand -online- something there is nothing about 'Verified by Visa...". So in thailand it might be better protected then outside the country.

Many banks already have a one-time-pad system. I wonder why they not use it for online-credit card transactions?

[realitymanagement]

The community is also considering installing devices that jam wireless signals

good, i always seem to get behind the clueless girl on the phone that takes 10 minutes at the ATM

haha that happens to be a lot too!

[jeaniie]

How incompetent could banks become? Jamming devices?? That would become a bloodbath in Bangkok and other areas with lots of offices and atm's . Nobody would be able anymore to sent wireless data. The banks should simply go for better and thus more expensive atm's that are really protected. In Western europe skimming was a real problem, done by skilled people from Eastern European countries. In South East Asia it is a Malay sport, I bet that you cannot count the number of people who have their creditcard cancelled after paying with it in Malaysia. The proposed solution is again laughable, just like the comment that people can protect themselves. Do we need to inspect the ATM? Do we need to be on the look out for tiny camera's recording our pincode? Come on...

Credit cards in Malaysia are using Smartcard system, where they have a simcard embedded on the credit card, instead of using magnetic swipes. For those using magnetic card system, the security system is still very weak, or you can put it that the syndicate in Malaysia is using far better technology.

And yea...Some international banks do not charge the credit card holder if they suspect the transaction it's a fraud. And let's say in a day itself you had 2 swipes in 2 separate locations, which probably may take 2 days to travel from one point to another, the bank will call up to verify the transaction. I had once called up by my bank saying tat my card was being cloned, and since i need to travel abroad, I told them not to hold-up my card, and they agree to monitor my transactions for a certain duration, which my transaction will only be valid on the country & specific cities I'm visiting.

I can't leave without my cards!

[NanLaew]

I tried this yesterday with AirAsia and my Mastercard. I had virtually completed the while transaction when the "Verified by MC" pop-up told me 3 times I had incorrectly filled out the online form - I hadn't, obviously. So the system barred my credit card from using AirAsia. So Nok Air gets my business...

When will banks learn that they have to inform the customer before they do security checks, as they just louse up their own business and lose customers!

Sorry about that Captain. Are you sure your MasterCard was already set up in their 'SecureCode' system? If not, their server will route you to the card registration and setup page and that is where some people become confused and screw up. The key is to register your plastic directly with the respective card issuers websites BEFORE doing any online purchasing at third party websites. Once you are properly registered in their system, there should be no hassles apart from forgetting the password you elected to use which is NOT the same as any PIN associated with that plastic or online banking.

I will add that at times the AirAsia website has severe latency issues that causes a timeout when processing a simple payment. However, if you feel better served by the Nok Air website that doesn't make any effort at all to verify exactly who is using your plastic, then up to you.

[NanLaew]

I totaly agree. I also tried to buy a Airasia ticket and the 'Verified by Visa" popup came. It came without warning. When I buy outside thailand -online- something there is nothing about 'Verified by Visa...". So in thailand it might be better protected then outside the country.

Many banks already have a one-time-pad system. I wonder why they not use it for online-credit card transactions?

Kudos to AirAsia as they have obviously subscribed to this form of internet security to better serve their customers. Now the onus is on the card holder to register the card with either the VISA or MasterCard security schemes.

Get with the program people!!!

[khunjimk]

Great and informative posts.

If you have never had problems with your atm cards like myself you tend to have a false sense of security when using them. I've used travelers checks but found them very hard to cash in some parts of the country. My Amex was used for about $1000 in Japan while I was in Thailand but Amex quickly wrote these charges off for me. As explained earlier in these posts using your atm debit card inside a bank seems like a good idea as well as having No 1 and 2 accounts. I can't see myself carrying all my money in a belt while visiting Thailand so I must rely on the atm with caution.

Question. If you are using Visa Atm from time to time for withdrawals while traveling is it safer using a Thai bank account Atm or a Visa Atm from the home country?

[NanLaew]

In France all debit and credit cards have a chip with pin code, better replace all the ATM's in Thailand, that will not happen soon, technology takes long time to get to a third world country

Is the pin code stored in the card? That sound like a very bad idea. I doubt that is the case.

No, this whole principle of 'chip & pin' technology is that the PIN is only known to the card user. Even the issuing bank doesn't have a record of it but it is encoded in the EFTPOS servers so if the wrong PIN is entered, the purchase is denied. Since chip & pin is not available or supported on internet purchases, it is better to have registered and enabled your plastic on the 'Verified by VISA' and 'SecureCode by MasterCard' systems.

[NanLaew]

So where on Suk would be an "ideal" location to use the atm?

I usually use the atms located inside of malls (emporium/mbk) or the one that is outside of robinsons next to mcdonalds, but as already mentioned here, some members have had their cards skimmed from these machines.

What part of 'use ATM's that are either inside or part of banks' do you have a problem with? I don't live in Bangkok but I can probably point out 3 large bank locations with ATM's either inside or in the lobby.

An ATM in a mall would be even higher risk as it would see a higher volume of use and it's in a crowded locale. Such a machine would be easy to 'attack' by the scammers adding their card reading hardware as well as offering multiple points for surveillance to catch keypad entries, etc..

[think_too_mut]

The banks should simply go for better and thus more expensive atm's that are really protected. In Western europe skimming was a real problem, done by skilled people from Eastern European countries. In South East Asia it is a Malay sport, I bet that you cannot count the number of people who have their creditcard cancelled after paying with it in Malaysia.

The ATMs are all the same worldwide. Only a handful of companies cover 95% of the market: NCR, IBM (OEM Diebold), Diebold, Olivetti, Fujitsu.

There are no "primitive" ATMs for 3rd world countries. In fact, since the older (first) types were first acquired by large western banks in early 70s, some were using them until they died or were impossible to upgrade. In Australia, in 1999. they still had z80 CPU (same CPU as archaic Sinclair Spectrum, if anyone remembers that 32KB memory computer) based IBM ATMs that no 3rd world country had ever seen.

Someone said magnetic strip is not in use in Japan, I can report it is, I am holding my Japanese ATM card now. The PIN is not stored there nor anywhere on the card. It's on bank's mainframe.

Someone said fingerprints can be copied: I installed 6 ATMS in Papua New Guinea in 1995. and they had no PIN: fingerprint and pulse detector.

The fingerprint + pulse invention was developed for South African market.

Edited March 11, 2009 by think_too_mut

[TPI]

The banks should simply go for better and thus more expensive atm's that are really protected. In Western europe skimming was a real problem, done by skilled people from Eastern European countries. In South East Asia it is a Malay sport, I bet that you cannot count the number of people who have their creditcard cancelled after paying with it in Malaysia.

The ATMs are all the same worldwide. Only a handful of companies cover 95% of the market: NCR, IBM (OEM Diebold), Diebold, Olivetti, Fujitsu.

There are no "primitive" ATMs for 3rd world countries. In fact, since the older (first) types were first acquired by large western banks in early 70s, some were using them until they died or were impossible to upgrade. In Australia, in 1999. they still had z80 CPU (same CPU as archaic Sinclair Spectrum, if anyone remembers that 32KB memory computer) based IBM ATMs that no 3rd world country had ever seen.

Someone said magnetic strip is not in use in Japan, I can report it is, I am holding my Japanese ATM card now. The PIN is not stored there nor anywhere on the card. It's on bank's mainframe.

Someone said fingerprints can be copied: I installed 6 ATMS in Papua New Guinea in 1995. and they had no PIN: fingerprint and pulse detector.

The fingerprint + pulse invention was developed for South African market.

I don't see what the problem is....just get a Thai wife....no money left to steal!!!

[ryladie99]

Banks to protect ATMs against skimming scams

BANGKOK: -- A special device to prevent the theft of information embedded in ATM cards is being installed in more than 30,000 ATM machines nationwide, Phol Thanachote, chairman of the Automated Teller Machines' businesses community, said Tuesday.

The community is also considering installing devices that jam wireless signals in areas near ATM machines, to prevent stolen information from being relayed wirelessly, he said. Stickers will help ATM users determine which machine has been protected.

Skimming techniques have been in use for the past few years, though it has become more difficult to come up with protective measures due to fastdeveloping technology. However, he said, educated users should be able to protect themselves because they know about the tricks being used by scammers.

-- The Nation 2009-03-10

Hello every one in Bangkok. You all are lucky. In America we have no choice and my husband and I are on our own. The Bank would refund total of our scam money back. I wish the American does like the Thai. Please send a thank you note to the Honorable Phol Thanachote. I am so proud of him for his vision. Well, we did got cheated for so much money but, the Bank did not charge my husband anythings because, we had a police report. and we informed the bank early. Surprized I wore a ring that costed $3.99 and everyone loved it. No one knew the price and I do not revael. however, in the past the thieft stole $15,000 dollars to buy dimond ring from my husband credit card and luckily we did not pay any dime.My husband and I felt horrible for the crime that others commited and got away. I believe in Krama and I am sure his or her family will end up paying for as such divorce, bankrupcy, home forclosure, depression, drug, drink, and finally comit suiside. I am so peace now and the law of nature are there. Honesty, integrity and principle are the quality of a decent human being while the cheat, lie, and stele are not acceptable in society, he or she will pay the price by the end...

No one gets away with anything, think twice before committ a crime...my take and personal opinion.

[piewarmer]

Samui Thailand and Brisbane Austrailia at the same time or with in hour of each other, the penny finally dropped with the bank and they thought something is not right here have they put a world wide stop on the old card nope!!! it still goes on.

I wonder how a worldwide network of beneficiaries exists under the radar.

[Mali1964]

Can British bank Chip & Pin Debit cards still be skimmed?

They still have the magnetic strip but i think this does not hold the card info no more its all on the chip, so does this mean English cards are safe at ATM's?

[H2oDunc]

A quick and easy way to check the ATM is to try to pull the card slot from the ATM. If there is a skimmer it will come off with a bit of persuasion. If it doesn't you are OK. Plus always cover your hand when inputting your pin as no pin the info from the skim is useless!

[Mick303]

This sounds like thai logic trying to instill a false sense of security to farang atm card users, now very safe to use your card here etc. etc(haha). I personally have not used atm machines here in pattaya if the card slot to insert bankcard looked odd or not to be right in any way, if there was any card or leaflet containers right above the keypad I would rip them off and throw away, and never use a machine outside a minimart or other business where there are any thais or others lurking about nearby, also never use a machine in very quiet or secluded areas( you never know who is lurking in the background)

[henryalleman]

In France all debit and credit cards have a chip with pin code, better replace all the ATM's in Thailand, that will not happen soon, technology takes long time to get to a third world country

belgium also. If you like to pay with your Visa or MasterCard you must use a PIN code. Its give some hassles in Thailand because initially they always say "card no good" It happened even a few times that I have to follow to the office where they have device where I can put my pin code, when taking diesel I must go to the teller and put in my pin code also. They don't seems to know this system in Thailand, so every time I must explain it to them, and do all handling by myself. OK it can be complicated sometimes but its very safe.

For Internet payments they give an additional virtual Visa and MasterCard. Its only can be used to make 1 payment, because each time they change the security CVV2 number and the expire date.

For online banking they give an DIGIPASS who looks like a small calculation machine who every time calculate an second entrance code and approval code for each transaction.

I like to point out that's its not a major bank ,but one of the smallest in the country. But their security is the top. Much better than the far bigger Deutsche Bank.

[Mali1964]

In France all debit and credit cards have a chip with pin code, better replace all the ATM's in Thailand, that will not happen soon, technology takes long time to get to a third world country

belgium also. If you like to pay with your Visa or MasterCard you must use a PIN code. Its give some hassles in Thailand because initially they always say "card no good" It happened even a few times that I have to follow to the office where they have device where I can put my pin code, when taking diesel I must go to the teller and put in my pin code also. They don't seems to know this system in Thailand, so every time I must explain it to them, and do all handling by myself. OK it can be complicated sometimes but its very safe.

For Internet payments they give an additional virtual Visa and MasterCard. Its only can be used to make 1 payment, because each time they change the security CVV2 number and the expire date.

For online banking they give an DIGIPASS who looks like a small calculation machine who every time calculate an second entrance code and approval code for each transaction.

I like to point out that's its not a major bank ,but one of the smallest in the country. But their security is the top. Much better than the far bigger Deutsche Bank.

Must say i've never had issue's with my UK chip & pin cards in Thailand they just ask you to sign like the old days, i hear this is the same the world over where chip & pin is still not used hence why the magnetic strip is still there i think?

[Zpete]

I have been travelling to LoS for 2 - 3 times a year, for 5 years now.

Since my 1st trip when my credit card was compromised, and friend's was copied, we use cash, safer.

Use your card in BKK at Pantip Plaza, Chinatown and Visa puts a hold on max payments, well they did mine.

I used it on the last day of my trip one time at The Emporium, on Sukhimvit, it was compromised there, never used it since except online for internet bookings, fares, accommodation etc.

The anti skimming devices work by vibrating your card as it is entering the ATM where the skimmer is placed, it is skimmed before the ATM even reads it.

See pix in previous posts.

[NanLaew]

Can British bank Chip & Pin Debit cards still be skimmed?

They still have the magnetic strip but i think this does not hold the card info no more its all on the chip, so does this mean English cards are safe at ATM's?

Pay attention here! ALL cards can be skimmed. The technology used by the scammers/skimmers changes so rapidly there are NO GUARANTEES that your plastic will not be violated. What is safe today may not be safe tomorrow. ONLY USE ATM MACHINES LOCATED INSIDE BANKS, IN BANK LOBBIES OR INTEGRAL TO FOREIGN EXCHANGE BOOTHS STAFFED BY BANK WORKERS.

Must say i've never had issue's with my UK chip & pin cards in Thailand they just ask you to sign like the old days, i hear this is the same the world over where chip & pin is still not used hence why the magnetic strip is still there i think?

Most EFTPOS locations in Thailand will process a chip & pin card the 'old' way, only asking for your signature. Some EFTPOS systems will ask for the merchant to ask the customer to enter the PIN but the general ignorance of this technology by local sales staff will result in the 'your card no good' as an excuse for 'I haven't a clue how to do my job.' I have only once been correctly requested to enter the PIN and that was in Robinsons in Udon. So much for the theory that Isaan knows less!!

The anti skimming devices work by vibrating your card as it is entering the ATM where the skimmer is placed, it is skimmed before the ATM even reads it.

That comment regards vibrating your card is misleading! Most newer ATM machines use a slow 'vibrating' style device to draw your card inside and the same when it ejects the card. This is NOT evidence of a skimming machine or anti-skimming devices.

The pics posted by tropo indicated a skimmer that was added to a machine in Phuket. The other suite of pictures from another poster were from Brazil. In either case, these pictures only illustrate what a couple of add-on skimmers looked like then and does not indicate what the latest technology used by thieves looks like now. So, if in doubt, repeat after me...

ONLY USE ATM MACHINES LOCATED INSIDE BANKS, IN BANK LOBBIES OR INTEGRAL TO FOREIGN EXCHANGE BOOTHS STAFFED BY BANK WORKERS.

[henryalleman]

In France all debit and credit cards have a chip with pin code, better replace all the ATM's in Thailand, that will not happen soon, technology takes long time to get to a third world country

belgium also. If you like to pay with your Visa or MasterCard you must use a PIN code. Its give some hassles in Thailand because initially they always say "card no good" It happened even a few times that I have to follow to the office where they have device where I can put my pin code, when taking diesel I must go to the teller and put in my pin code also. They don't seems to know this system in Thailand, so every time I must explain it to them, and do all handling by myself. OK it can be complicated sometimes but its very safe.

For Internet payments they give an additional virtual Visa and MasterCard. Its only can be used to make 1 payment, because each time they change the security CVV2 number and the expire date.

For online banking they give an DIGIPASS who looks like a small calculation machine who every time calculate an second entrance code and approval code for each transaction.

I like to point out that's its not a major bank ,but one of the smallest in the country. But their security is the top. Much better than the far bigger Deutsche Bank.

Must say i've never had issue's with my UK chip & pin cards in Thailand they just ask you to sign like the old days, i hear this is the same the world over where chip & pin is still not used hence why the magnetic strip is still there i think?

If I go to an PTT pump and pay with my chip & pin Visa or Mastercard I always have to pin. The same in Robinson or Central. The same in many hotels and restaurants.

[Indra]

I have SCB Visa card. It has smart card on it.

Therefore, whenever I use it to pay something (gas station, tesco, carrefour, big c, etc), the cashier will insert it into EDC machine instead of sliding the magnetic stripe.

Smart card technology is quite secure unless you have CIA or NSA secret inside it.

Most places in Thailand use EDC, which verify the smart card instead of the magnetic stripe.

Or perhaps you may want to intentionally spoil the magnetic stripe of your credit card so that it can only be used on EDC with smart card reader.

The main problem is ATM card as all banks in Thailand are still using ATM card with magnetic stripe.

Even Indonesia, a country with GNP much lower than Thailand, is starting to change the ATM card magnetic stripe to smart card.

Nowadays, magnetic card is only good for membership card of fitness center.

[Markaew]

I wonder if that is how after a trip to BKK last August where I used several ATMs on Sukhumvit Road and at MBK, my ATM card went on a trip to China and whooped it up at a "drinking and dancing" establishment, where the transaction was posted as "card present" at the same time I was in the grocery store in Denver, CO? My card had a grand time to the tune of nearly USD $5000!

It took three months to investigate the fraud and recover the amount charged back to my account.

What are those tricks? How strange that an article would say that and not elaborate on those tricks. Am I supposed to be a member of a secret club with a special logo jacket to "know about" the tricks?

The same thing happened to me. After one of my visits last year (now residing) I had about $900 charged in various places in China.

[tonykawakawa]

What part of 'use ATM's that are either inside or part of banks' do you have a problem with? I don't live in Bangkok but I can probably point out 3 large bank locations with ATM's either inside or in the lobby.

@NanLaew, I am not sure how I offended you by posting my question, but thanks for your answer.

[TomBrown]

What part of 'use ATM's that are either inside or part of banks' do you have a problem with? I don't live in Bangkok but I can probably point out 3 large bank locations with ATM's either inside or in the lobby.

@NanLaew, I am not sure how I offended you by posting my question, but thanks for your answer.

It appears he is like that with many people. I thought he was a bit stupid till I actually read some of his posts.

[TomBrown]

I've noticed a few ATMs near me now have a dark green plastic 'mouthpiece' thing over the slot where you insert your card, with a picture of a padlock on them.. does anyone know if these have been installed by the bank or by skimmers?

thanks

Like these?

Edited March 16, 2009 by TomBrown

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi

The K-Bank ATM's which i mentioned (that pull in and eject the card slo-o-o-o-wly and "stuttering") also always have this green thingy installed I just used it (such ATM) again this morning.

Best regards.....

Thanh

[Kabinboy]

Can anyone tell me the procedures and laws in Thailand for recovering my money from the bank, as my ATM card has been skimming and funds stolen?