What Do You Think Could Be Done To Improve Safety In Driving?

[LadyHeather]

I have been thinking of buying a car but have hesitated for some time now due to stories here as well as in the news about not only the high accident rate but the special pitfalls that await the expat driver.

So, what do you think could be done to improve safety on the roads in Thailand not just for Thais but for the expat driver as well?

[barryloei]

I have been thinking of buying a car but have hesitated for some time now due to stories here as well as in the news about not only the high accident rate but the special pitfalls that await the expat driver.

So, what do you think could be done to improve safety on the roads in Thailand not just for Thais but for the expat driver as well?

Insert a brain into Thai Drivers would be a good start .

[VocalNeal]

I have been thinking of buying a car but have hesitated for some time now due to stories here as well as in the news about not only the high accident rate but the special pitfalls that await the expat driver.

So, what do you think could be done to improve safety on the roads in Thailand not just for Thais but for the expat driver as well?

I don't think it is any more dangerous here than other S.E Asian countries, say Indonesia. You just have to concentrate more to drive here. Depending on how much driving you have done in the west you may not have much to "unlearn". There is scant regard for what we would consider "normal" traffic laws and apart from the occasional sleeping driver, actual car control here is almost the same as anywhere else.

.

If have experience driving on the right then there is a spatial learning curve. Other than that go ahead. Bear in mind though that your swear word count may increase.

[thailandlover]

traffic law enforcement would be my top pick for improving driving safety. Second top pick would be drivers education required at school.

And its not so bad driving here, you just have to have your wits about you at all times. No drop off in concentration allowed!

[Cuban]

Insert a brain into Thai Drivers would be a good start .

Turn on brain for farang 'new' drivers - many assume Thai road users will act/react as in the farang's home country - Thai drivers drive Thai style - once you understand this you too can integrate into traffic on Thai roads. In a situation at a junction who has right of way: an elephant, the police pickup, the black fortuner, or the monk?

I might suggest that understanding the 'fast' lane and it's role within the use of the U turn on Highways is most alien for new drivers to Thailand.

As for improving road safety - I would like to see unobtructed lights working front/rear on all moving vehicles on any road way from 15 minutes before sunset to 15 minutes after sunrise every day, 200 Baht on the spot fine for failure to comply - no exclusions, actively enforced every day.

There are so many major issues that won't get done - but a small simple issue like lights might be possible.

That said - many bikers don't bother to get a helmet for their children - even farang riders seem to consider this safety cost too great - they don't deserve helping, let them ride without lights, when hit at speed their suffering will be short, maybe.

[PhilHarries]

Square wheels. That would make things safer.

As VocalNeal says it is not that bad, but you can't relax, you can't assume anything and you must always expect the unexpected. The only positive thing is that in general Thais tend to drive slower and also tend to be more forgiving of minor mistakes.

Disclaimer : the last statements do not apply to bus nor truck drivers who are psychopathic nutters on speed with a death wish.

[TVmonitor]

traffic law enforcement would be my top pick for improving driving safety. Second top pick would be drivers education required at school.

And its not so bad driving here, you just have to have your wits about you at all times. No drop off in concentration allowed!

I agree - but I would add one more thing - that is road design and engineering - there is no chance of achieving one without the other 2.

[thailandlover]

Square wheels. That would make things safer.

As VocalNeal says it is not that bad, but you can't relax, you can't assume anything and you must always expect the unexpected. The only positive thing is that in general Thais tend to drive slower and also tend to be more forgiving of minor mistakes.

Disclaimer : the last statements do not apply to bus nor truck drivers who are psychopathic nutters on speed with a death wish.

You forgot teenage boys on motorbikes racing down narrow roads at 120 kph

[patklang]

The only way i can see to improve drivers here,would be a proper driving test.Many thais cant even reverse into an opening or park a car a few inches away from a pavement.I dont think the biggest problem is the bad driving its the arrogance of the thais that cause the biggest problems.

[fiddlehead]

I agree with patklang. The driving test here is a joke.

The questions on the computer are a joke. They tell you the correct answers at the end and some of them are just mind boggling: Example: they show 4 pictures of parked cars and ask you to pick which one is correct (legal?) The correct one shows a 4 lane hi-way with a car just pulled over on the left in the lane!!!

Then there's the driving part of the test. NONE! and i repeat None, of the Thai drivers could park the car properly. 2 out of the 8 i watched got completely turned around and knocked over many posts. I didn't stick around to see if they passed but assume they are probably driving on the roads by now (3 weeks later)

How the woman that judges everyone can keep a straight face day after day is beyond me. I couldn't.

But, even if everyone knows how to drive properly, when you get the bully, or drunk, or guy who's late for work barrelling through the roundabouts, breaking all the rules with 2 policeman standing there watching and doing nothing about it....................Well, you're not going to have a country full of safe drivers now are you?

[slapout]

Issue a handgun with ammo with each driving license...........

[PhilHarries]

Issue a handgun with ammo with each driving license...........

Well that will certainly reduce the amount of traffic on the roads and give a much needed boost to the undertaking business.

Not too sure if that would be classified as a road safety measure though.

[barryloei]

Insert a brain into Thai Drivers would be a good start .

Turn on brain for farang 'new' drivers - many assume Thai road users will act/react as in the farang's home country - Thai drivers drive Thai style - once you understand this you too can integrate into traffic on Thai roads. In a situation at a junction who has right of way: an elephant, the police pickup, the black fortuner, or the monk?

I might suggest that understanding the 'fast' lane and it's role within the use of the U turn on Highways is most alien for new drivers to Thailand.

As for improving road safety - I would like to see unobtructed lights working front/rear on all moving vehicles on any road way from 15 minutes before sunset to 15 minutes after sunrise every day, 200 Baht on the spot fine for failure to comply - no exclusions, actively enforced every day.

There are so many major issues that won't get done - but a small simple issue like lights might be possible.

That said - many bikers don't bother to get a helmet for their children - even farang riders seem to consider this safety cost too great - they don't deserve helping, let them ride without lights, when hit at speed their suffering will be short, maybe.

I have driven here for a number of years and i know the 'thai style ' of driving . Sounds to me by your tone that you think are saying all Thai's are good drivers and all farangs are not ? Is that what you think ?

[Pushit]

Get a functional police force, what Thailand has right now are likened to the Keystone cops.

[Digitalbanana]

I have been thinking of buying a car but have hesitated for some time now due to stories here as well as in the news about not only the high accident rate but the special pitfalls that await the expat driver.

So, what do you think could be done to improve safety on the roads in Thailand not just for Thais but for the expat driver as well?

Driving conditions vary within Thailand itself. Driving in Phuket is different from Bangkok and Chiang Mai is different yet again. Besides limited law enforcement due lack of resources, roads are in poorer standards t other more developed countries with limited safety precautions set in place.

Why hesitate over spending money on a car, went you can rent one to test the conditions are suitable for you? If you are not sure, just use a driver.

[barryloei]

Cuban as my attempt at a little humour flew straight over your head , i will give you an alternative , Thai style driving has been going for years and it won't be changing anytime in the near future , its here to stay and even though all us farangs know what would improve it , it ain't going to happen . I suggest closing this topic and use your time on something that can be influenced .

[naboo]

Example: they show 4 pictures of parked cars and ask you to pick which one is correct (legal?) The correct one shows a 4 lane hi-way with a car just pulled over on the left in the lane!!!

<br /><br /><br />

The 4 answers to that question are (using diagrams):

Park next to red and white markings on the pavement

Park at a junction

Park at a pedestrian crossing

Park where there are no obstructions or red and white markings

Its fairly obvious really.

As for driving in Thailand, you cannot take your western driving style and use it here. It doesn't work, they drive very differently to us. I'm not saying they're better drivers, I'm not saying they're worse drivers, they're different and you cannot compare us and them. For us to be safe, we need to watch, learn and accept that the unexpected is going to happen. Apart from Song Taew drivers, I rarely see a bad driver outside car parks here.

[thaicbr]

'Apart from Song Taew drivers, I rarely see a bad driver outside car parks here.'

Naboo where do you live. because if what you are saying is true i want to move there. also how many km's a week do you drive.

Allan

[Cuban]

I have driven here for a number of years and i know the 'thai style ' of driving . Sounds to me by your tone that you think are saying all Thai's are good drivers and all farangs are not ? Is that what you think ?

I am not saying that at all. Although you seem to consider that Thai drivers don't have brains? I think there are few Thai members of this forum that might disagree with you, along with the spirit of non-Thai-bashing posts to this public forum. There are very many stupid Thai drivers (all vehicles) as there are stupid farang drivers, and at times myself included - shock horror I am not perfect! My last incident was being fined for poor observation - I didn't see the traffic cop watch me drive through a red light. I didn't argue but paid my 400 Baht along with the other Thai drivers that didn't see him either - no great shakes.

Yes, as you say over the years driving in this country you learn the Thai driving style, the ebb and flow of what a Thai driver will do in any given situation. My favorite example is a slow moving pickup full of pineapples near a U-turn on the highway, there is a good chance that the driver might intend to take that U-turn regardless of the position of his vehicle on the road or whether his turn signal is operating or not even fitted to the vehicle. A new farang driver not used to having slow moving traffic appear by magic in front of him driving his shiny new Fortuner in the fast lane will consider has the right of way. Thai style is to give way or move over. I've seen a few accidents where this 'mistunderstanding' was the cause of both vehicles trying to occupy the same place at the same time.

Take a Thai driver from either central Bangkok or rural Issan and get him to drive through Madrid's city center and I think his chances of an accident are greater than if he had stayed at home. Likewise with a Spanish driver to Bangkok. Thai drivers are taught (?) how to pass the driving test for cars then given a licence, just like any other country. Then just like every other country they 'learn' how to drive by fitting in with all the other loonies on the road like you and me.

Thais learnt that many people out there are 'bad' drivers so the Thai norm is to drive slowly and allow space/time for other road users. This worked well in the past with most people on motorbikes and slow moving heavy laden pickups. I suggest that this is less true today with people enclosed in their car not being seen as another human (person) on a motorbike - no connection with other road users. Watch the way no eye contact is made when bikes and cars cross a busy junction, size is all - the Fortuner will push his way through.

Whether Thai or not, a good driver will control their actions so as not to be a hazard to other road users and be aware of other road user's actions or inactions that may be hazardous.

I was stupid for not checking if the police were watching that junction before I ran the red light, I support your right to say I was stupid for not stopping on yellow, but I and many others do squeeze a few more moments of green out of the first second of red. Like speed it happens.

The Thai biker that side swiped me as I was turning right into a soi was pretty stupid to ignore the fact that I was stationary with right turn signal flashing (yes, it was checked as working and witnesses saw this was the case during the incident) next to a soi when I turned oncoming traffic had stopped to allow me to turn, he trying to over take as I turned right. The police told him he was in the wrong and that any thought of 'farang pay" was dismissed at once, they suggested that the bike rider might want to stay for a drugs-urine test or piss off. (the translation I was given later)

Cuban as my attempt at a little humour flew straight over your head , i will give you an alternative , Thai style driving has been going for years and it won't be changing anytime in the near future , its here to stay and even though all us farangs know what would improve it , it ain't going to happen . I suggest closing this topic and use your time on something that can be influenced.

Not over my head but really in all honesty do you think it will make a blind bit of differance?

Whether it's red traffic stop signals, helmets, riding lights or even opening your eyes long enough to register the actions of other road users - there are many hazards on and within Thai roads and their users.

I think the OP seeks some path to improvement - I don't think there is one?

....special pitfalls that await the expat driver.

Such as ??? Edited March 18, 2009 by Cuban

[barryloei]

I have driven here for a number of years and i know the 'thai style ' of driving . Sounds to me by your tone that you think are saying all Thai's are good drivers and all farangs are not ? Is that what you think ?

I am not saying that at all. Although you seem to consider that Thai drivers don't have brains? I think there are few Thai members of this forum that might disagree with you, along with the spirit of non-Thai-bashing posts to this public forum. There are very many stupid Thai drivers (all vehicles) as there are stupid farang drivers, and at times myself included - shock horror I am not perfect! My last incident was being fined for poor observation - I didn't see the traffic cop watch me drive through a red light. I didn't argue but paid my 400 Baht along with the other Thai drivers that didn't see him either - no great shakes.

Yes, as you say over the years driving in this country you learn the Thai driving style, the ebb and flow of what a Thai driver will do in any given situation. My favorite example is a slow moving pickup full of pineapples near a U-turn on the highway, there is a good chance that the driver might intend to take that U-turn regardless of the position of his vehicle on the road or whether his turn signal is operating or not even fitted to the vehicle. A new farang driver not used to having slow moving traffic appear by magic in front of him driving his shiny new Fortuner in the fast lane will consider has the right of way. Thai style is to give way or move over. I've seen a few accidents where this 'mistunderstanding' was the cause of both vehicles trying to occupy the same place at the same time.

Take a Thai driver from either central Bangkok or rural Issan and get him to drive through Madrid's city center and I think his chances of an accident are greater than if he had stayed at home. Likewise with a Spanish driver to Bangkok. Thai drivers are taught (?) how to pass the driving test for cars then given a licence, just like any other country. Then just like every other country they 'learn' how to drive by fitting in with all the other loonies on the road like you and me.

Thais learnt that many people out there are 'bad' drivers so the Thai norm is to drive slowly and allow space/time for other road users. This worked well in the past with most people on motorbikes and slow moving heavy laden pickups. I suggest that this is less true today with people enclosed in their car not being seen as another human (person) on a motorbike - no connection with other road users. Watch the way no eye contact is made when bikes and cars cross a busy junction, size is all - the Fortuner will push his way through.

Whether Thai or not, a good driver will control their actions so as not to be a hazard to other road users and be aware of other road user's actions or inactions that may be hazardous.

I was stupid for not checking if the police were watching that junction before I ran the red light, I support your right to say I was stupid for not stopping on yellow, but I and many others do squeeze a few more moments of green out of the first second of red. Like speed it happens.

The Thai biker that side swiped me as I was turning right into a soi was pretty stupid to ignore the fact that I was stationary with right turn signal flashing (yes, it was checked as working and witnesses saw this was the case during the incident) next to a soi when I turned oncoming traffic had stopped to allow me to turn, he trying to over take as I turned right. The police told him he was in the wrong and that any thought of 'farang pay" was dismissed at once, they suggested that the bike rider might want to stay for a drugs-urine test or piss off. (the translation I was given later)

Cuban as my attempt at a little humour flew straight over your head , i will give you an alternative , Thai style driving has been going for years and it won't be changing anytime in the near future , its here to stay and even though all us farangs know what would improve it , it ain't going to happen . I suggest closing this topic and use your time on something that can be influenced.

Not over my head but really in all honesty do you think it will make a blind bit of differance?

Whether it's red traffic stop signals, helmets, riding lights or even opening your eyes long enough to register the actions of other road users - there are many hazards on and within Thai roads and their users.

I think the OP seeks some path to improvement - I don't think there is one?

....special pitfalls that await the expat driver.

Such as ???

Exactly , you can discuss this until the world ends it won't change a thing , thats why i tried a bit of humour , next time i won't bother .

[onnut]

I drive about 45,000 kilos a year in Thailand and have seen so many stupid things on the roads, corrupt police need to be sorted before anything will be done about the safety on Thai roads. Thais drive their way, and most of the time it would appear wrong but I suppose it is right for them and we are the minority and have to adapt to their driving standards. but that does not mean we have to stoop to there standards of driving. stay calm, expect the unexpected all the time. you could be going 80KPH and have a motor bike cut you up, Thais cannot see further than their noses when it comes to driving so you have to see for them.

there is me saying stay calm, ! I loose it everyday while driving in Bangkok.

[Cuban]

I am not saying that at all. Although you.....

....I don't think there is one?

....thats why i tried a bit of humour , next time i won't bother .

No, please keep trying - you'll get there in the end I'm sure.

PS.

I know you like my replies but there's no need to quote me in full.

[trogers]

I would like speed limits on minor roads raised to 120km/h. You know, those dual carriage roads that are just separated by some painted lines at the middle.

Thailand can then have quite a number of atomic smashers, a record for the Guiness book for sure.

[bungy007]

I have been thinking of buying a car but have hesitated for some time now due to stories here as well as in the news about not only the high accident rate but the special pitfalls that await the expat driver.

So, what do you think could be done to improve safety on the roads in Thailand not just for Thais but for the expat driver as well?

Driving conditions vary within Thailand itself. Driving in Phuket is different from Bangkok and Chiang Mai is different yet again. Besides limited law enforcement due lack of resources, roads are in poorer standards t other more developed countries with limited safety precautions set in place.

Why hesitate over spending money on a car, went you can rent one to test the conditions are suitable for you? If you are not sure, just use a driver.

Lady, I would seriously consider the above advice. Driving in Thailand can be very pleasant especially outside of the big cities. The intercity highways and expressways are often in pretty good condition and though you may come across rough patches which test your suspension system, on the whole it can be a pleasure. The problem is the Thais - its their country and they have (as is often the case) taken a well thought out system with safety checks and balances built in and corrupted it beyond belief. It isn't any mystery why so many thousands of Thais die on the roads every year. As one of the first posters stated - insert brain would help. To clarify this generalisation, you must be aware that Thais have a very different view of cause and effect - karma comes into play a lot so that the current action may not have such a bearing on the immediate outcome if you have bought the garland of flowers to hang over your rear view mirror from the Cambodian street urchin at the beginning of your journey. Or if going on a long journey you plaster a bouquet of flowers to your front bumper to act as a force field around your car - you can break all of the rules of the road but the flowers will protect you and yours from any consequences. It's a cute idea but the death toll figures just don't stack up in its defense. That's just the way it is out here.

So, unless you have a pressing need to commute by car every day of the week, I would rent the car for a day or two and let the insurance take care of the problems. Enjoy your trips and remember

'clunk-click on every trip'

[Plus]

Thais and parking - have you seen how tight they park in places like Chinatown? Of course there are plenty who never had a need to squeese in small space and so have no idea how to do it, but how is it different from any other country?

Most of the deaths are motorcyclists, daredevils without any regard for personal safety. That's their main problem, not the ignorance of rules. You can give them as many tests as you like, if they don't feel that flying out of the soi straight into the second lane without even looking at the coming traffic is dangerous, your tests are not going to make any difference.

Knowing the rules and acting stupid are generally unrelated. More police is not going to make them any saner either.

There must be a way to make them more considerate of other drivers, otherwise it's only square wheels, I'm afraid.

[neverdie]

There is a big difference between 'Driving or riding' a motor vehicle, as opposed to 'moving' a motor vehicle.

Sadly there arnt many drivers amoungst us.

[guns482]

I have been thinking of buying a car but have hesitated for some time now due to stories here as well as in the news about not only the high accident rate but the special pitfalls that await the expat driver.

So, what do you think could be done to improve safety on the roads in Thailand not just for Thais but for the expat driver as well?

To start with having been part of TV interview with a director of land transport office ( Driving Licence and test centre), I can honestly say Thailand has a major problem. The tests are a joke, the driver competence is never tested and the adherence to Traffic law is at best nominal.

Insurance coys could if they wished raise the stakes by insisting on full compliance with the law otherwise claims would not be paid, that would be a start and the Police need to get off theor repsective backsides and enforce the law instead of touting for tea money.

Apart from that having driven here for 6 years it is all in the lap of the gods.

[NanLaew]

Drivers education and law enforcement. Although it's sometimes convenient to subscribe to the back-hander in lieu of a ticket, it just encourages more indiscipline from drivers AND law enforcement. OK, the 5km over the speed limit payoff is convenient but where do you draw the line? The over-the-alcohol-limit speeding driver is breaking the same basic speed restriction but with much higher risk and more severe consequences.

I got a ticket yesterday on Jomtien for using my cellphone while driving, something I would never consider doing in the UK and some US states but seems easy to ignore here. The cop maybe could have accepted a back-hander; I didn't offer and he brought up the ticket issue straight away so reckoned he wasn't interested in my tea money!

[antony77]

I have been thinking of buying a car but have hesitated for some time now due to stories here as well as in the news about not only the high accident rate but the special pitfalls that await the expat driver.

So, what do you think could be done to improve safety on the roads in Thailand not just for Thais but for the expat driver as well?

farangs always get the blame in an accident with a Thai. so take out a comprehensive car insurance policy with a large reputable insurance company which will have reps. everywhere. if you are involved in an accident they come to the scene in a few minutes and sort out the matter.

[bungy007]

'Apart from Song Taew drivers, I rarely see a bad driver outside car parks here.'

Naboo where do you live. because if what you are saying is true i want to move there. also how many km's a week do you drive.

Allan

I have to agree. I too rarely see bad drivers outside carparks. I know that the government has passed laws against it, but the tinting of the widows is still too dark to be able to see the occupants of the vehicle. At best, after they have cut me up, driven straight out of a side road and into traffic without stopping to wait for a safe entrance into the main stream, tried to side swipe me as they decide that they want to occupy the piece of road I am already occupying, I can only determine their gender!