Protection And Security

[Thaihog]

I went to look at these dogs today, they are huge, the smallest one must be at least 60 KG.

You wouldn't have any problem with intruders with these dogs, the intruder would run a mile when he sees these guys LOL...

Cheers

[Ulysses G.]

I went to look at these dogs today, they are huge, the smallest one must be at least 60 KG.

You wouldn't have any problem with intruders with these dogs, the intruder would run a mile when he sees these guys LOL...

Cheers

So they could be good for protection?

[caf]

Ask yourself why most Thais have dogs and whatb they are used for. Trained to bark or trained to fight?

I would say, not trained at all.

Which means they revert to their basic nature

Which is what?

To hunt in packs and fight. A dangerous weapon which the poster is encouraging others to use for "protection"

How many "accidents" happen with dogs here? Children are of course at a worse risk.

The Op is a most irresponsible post

Have you spent much time with dogs? Dogs have been partnered with people since long before recorded history, and thousands of generations of selective breeding (the troublesome dogs were killed) has resulted in friendly social animals that only attack when they think they or their family is being threatened, and sometimes not even then. They're lovers, not fighters, and it takes training or mistreatment to make most dogs mean. Yes every year some people are killed by dogs, as well as by sharks, bees, lightening, etc. That does not mean we should cower in fear at the sight of a dog, bee, lightening or even a shark; the risk is miniscule. All it takes to properly raise a dog is let it grow up in a safe and secure environment and see to it that it is properly socialized by friendly interaction with other people and pets, after that almost all dogs (there are rare exceptions) will be wonderful companions, not threats.

You ask: "Have you spent much time with dogs?" The answer is yes, see my last post

I would ask you "Have you been called out in the middle of the night by the police to put down a rottweiler and then make a joint report with a police doctor after examining a mangled body of a child?"

I love dogs ( and cats and birds) and and have owned many different breeds of dog. I have trained dogs to CDX and PD standard. i have been involved with police handlers. There is a place for dogs in police work. But these are trained dogs and trained handlers. The handlers can and do call their dogs off when required. In the hands of someone inexperienced some dogs are dangerous which is why there are legal restrictions in the UK and why breeders and trainers are controlled.

Thailand is different and no one should be even obliquely advocating rottweilers or similar breeds for "protection" purposes.

We all have our own opinions based on our own experiences, qualifications and training. A forum should be a place where ideas can be exchanged civilly and sometimes as a result views can be modified.

I have often changed my views after an enlightened forum discussion. Whether that will happen on this thread I doubt.

Correct training and Caring are the two keys.

[caf]

IMO, it was just an unfortunate wording. I believe Nienke is a genuine dog lover and a skilled professional. Please give her a break.

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion ( even on tv ) and there are trainers who would take a very different view

As a veterinary surgeon who has dealt with rottweilers and other breeds on the dangerous breed list and been called out by the police on emergency cases i obviously hold my views professionally.

Hi Caf

Read your post with a lot of interest.

I don't know much about dogs. I once had a dog (a mongrel) but I'm more of a cat man (I have a lovely Bombay cat. Or she has me. Not sure who is who in our relationship).

When I read the opening post, first I was bewildered because I have always heard that rottweilers are (could be) dangerous dogs. Then I did a Google a search. Among other articles, I read the one in Wikipedia and now I don't know what to think.

Excerpts from Wikipedia:

"[The rottweiler] is exceptionally well suited to being a companion, service and working dog."

"The Rottweiler ranks 9th in Stanley Coren's The Intelligence of Dogs, being one of the brightest 10 dogs ranked by obedience command trainability."

"As with any breed, potentially dangerous behaviour in Rottweilers results from irresponsible ownership, abuse, neglect, or lack of socialization and training rather than from any inherent breed characteristic."

So are they intrinsically dangerous or not ?

Reason for edit: I forgot to add that everyone is entitled to his own opinion. Especially on TV (our little democratic space in Thailand)

A very fair post. There are however inherent characteristics in all breeds. Training of both dog and handler can largely overcome that though. The Uk police I have dealt with do however take the view not to use Rottweilers. I personally agree with them as I have trained German Shepherds and find them admirable for police work. The German police do however use Rottweilers but I know little about the results in Germany to comment.

This thread of course is about using a Rottweiler in an "unlicenced" domestic situation for protection purposes

But, a good and fair post. We need more like this on TV. Hope my contribution helps, sorry I can not say more about the German experience but i only post about what i know

[Maccheroncini]

Looking at my Thai dogs I think their basic nature is to sleep

And Bark like hel_l at 2:30 in the morning

[Maccheroncini]

Poor rottweilers, I don't think they should be judged like that.

[Nienke]

Caf I understand where you are coming from. You read the word 'protection' in combination with the word ' rottweiler' and, based on your background, you immediately see in your mind's eye a picture of dogs trained for protection work. Or in this case, me advertising a rottweiler for adoption meant to do solely that kind of work, for which I'm sure and you expect they are not trained.

When I wrote the post I had in MY mind's eye 2 rotties that need to be re-homed and that these dogs almost certainly will act as a deterrence. The post has never been meant and is still not meant to promote these two dogs for the kind of protection work that you have in mind. Naturally, the new owners should know or be informed about the breed and their responsibilities concerning the well-being of their dogs and their environment, which includes the safety aspect. I believe on this part we agree with eachother.

Whether the new owner/s will be informed properly is not in my hands as it is Care for Dogs who are trying to re-home these dogs. I was merely the messenger.

Thus this thread is NOT about what you wrote This thread of course is about using a Rottweiler in an "unlicenced" domestic situation for protection purposes, that is what you made out of it. I already have written this in one of the above posts. But you prefer to remain stuck to your own view of a word that was NOT meant, by me, to have that meaning.

The title may have been chosen a bit clumsy, but that's for some (including you, again based on your background which I respect) and certainly not for all readers. Maybe 'detterence and feeling of security' would have been a better title (well, if that's correct English). Sorry, English is my second language and protection was the first word that came to mind. The word detterence only popped up after reading Mestizo's post.

If the mod's would like to change the title, feel free to do so. Then maybe everybody will be happy.

In earlier days when I still was with my ex, we had dog owners contacting us for training their dogs only for the biting work. I always have refused that and told them they first needed to train their dog to full obedience before we would take up that kind of training. This was for the exact reason what you mention above, that is having an disobedient dog that is trained to bite. Not a very safe situation, IMO.

[JUDAS]

Being an avid reader of TV and having read many of Nienke posts in the past I have always thought he/she comes across as a caring and intelligent dog owner who advocates training and understanding of dogs. A title on a topic does nothing to change that view at all. In fact, are dogs not, if well cared for and treated as part of the family, highly protective? I think that any dog, whatever breed/size etc would offer a degree of protection to it's master.

[caf]

Caf I understand where you are coming from. You read the word 'protection' in combination with the word ' rottweiler' and, based on your background, you immediately see in your mind's eye a picture of dogs trained for protection work. Or in this case, me advertising a rottweiler for adoption meant to do solely that kind of work, for which I'm sure and you expect they are not trained.

When I wrote the post I had in MY mind's eye 2 rotties that need to be re-homed and that these dogs almost certainly will act as a deterrence. The post has never been meant and is still not meant to promote these two dogs for the kind of protection work that you have in mind. Naturally, the new owners should know or be informed about the breed and their responsibilities concerning the well-being of their dogs and their environment, which includes the safety aspect. I believe on this part we agree with eachother.

Whether the new owner/s will be informed properly is not in my hands as it is Care for Dogs who are trying to re-home these dogs. I was merely the messenger.

Thus this thread is NOT about what you wrote This thread of course is about using a Rottweiler in an "unlicenced" domestic situation for protection purposes, that is what you made out of it. I already have written this in one of the above posts. But you prefer to remain stuck to your own view of a word that was NOT meant, by me, to have that meaning.

The title may have been chosen a bit clumsy, but that's for some (including you, again based on your background which I respect) and certainly not for all readers. Maybe 'detterence and feeling of security' would have been a better title (well, if that's correct English). Sorry, English is my second language and protection was the first word that came to mind. The word detterence only popped up after reading Mestizo's post.

If the mod's would like to change the title, feel free to do so. Then maybe everybody will be happy.

In earlier days when I still was with my ex, we had dog owners contacting us for training their dogs only for the biting work. I always have refused that and told them they first needed to train their dog to full obedience before we would take up that kind of training. This was for the exact reason what you mention above, that is having an disobedient dog that is trained to bite. Not a very safe situation, IMO.

[caf]

from Nienkes post

"I always have refused that and told them they first needed to train their dog to full obedience before we would take up that kind of training."

This is what I meant by unlicencd protection. In the UK such training is illegal.

I had not realised English was not your first language. It's probably better than mine.

Glad you cleared up a few points. I think people were also not aware you were just the messenger.

Let's hope Care for Dogs take a responsible attitude and doesn't let these go to a home where they will be used the way many dogs are used in thailand. If they are taken as pets and trained/ cared for and kept under control at all times fine.

Which means of course if a child wanders into a garden where they are loose, the dogs will behave the way other trained dogs behave.

Glad you understand the points i and others have raised.

[FairwayJack]

When I first moved to Thailand I read a tragic article in the Nation about this type of dog attacking a 9 yr old girl and serverely disfiguring her. Rott's do not make good pets. There is no place for this kind of dog in a community....a prison camp maybe...you will become the pariah of your neighborhood.

[tuffy]

When I first moved to Thailand I read a tragic article in the Nation about this type of dog attacking a 9 yr old girl and serverely disfiguring her. Rott's do not make good pets. There is no place for this kind of dog in a community....a prison camp maybe...you will become the pariah of your neighborhood.

Jack your ignorance is showing. In that case... I read a story about a car running over a child and killing her as well, I think there is no room in this society for cars as they inherently dangerous, especially those sports cars which are always driven fast and reckless.

"this kind of dog" is one on the most lovable and social dogs I have ever owned, VERY family oriented and gentle.

[amexpat]

Jack your ignorance is showing. In that case... I read a story about a car running over a child and killing her as well, I think there is no room in this society for cars as they inherently dangerous, especially those sports cars which are always driven fast and reckless.

Ah, you are using irony, aren't you. Do you really mean that since cars don't run over kids all that often, there is no need for licensing, safety inspections, traffic laws... all that politically correct stuff?

"this kind of dog" is one on the most lovable and social dogs I have ever owned, VERY family oriented and gentle.

They generally are until/unless the kill button pops up. I really hope that doesn't happen with yours.