"red" And "yellow" Foreigners

[rixalex]

Frequently we hear either the "red" or the "yellow" camp describing each other as being political extremists of one sort or another. The common one i hear is that "yellows" are ultra right-wing in their beliefs. That got me thinking... do the farangs here that support or generally sympathise with one certain side, have a common political belief that already existed before they came to Thailand?

For example, if we polled "red" farangs, would we find that in the main they are Republicans/Conservatives (in the case of those from Britian and America - for those from other countries, whatever the right of centre political party happens to be), or would we find them to be Democrats/Labour?

Or is there simply no pattern? Do in fact the politcal beliefs that people brought with them when they came to Thailand have no bearing on their support for a certain camp here.

I ask all this because when i encounter a person on this forum who shares similar political thoughts on Thailand as i do, i do tend to find myself assuming that they are also of the same political shade as i am back home.

N.B. The poll intentionally does not include those who support neither camp

Edited March 20, 2009 by rixalex

[Briggsy]

You would probably be broadly right here.

Although it's hard to see how many liberals could be fans of Thaksin given his record on human rights and media suppression. They could argue the other side has an even worse record.

Edited March 20, 2009 by Briggsy

[jumnien]

I would describe myself as a longtime liberal and proud of it. I have been very critical of the PAD, the military involvement in Thai politics including its ushering in of the Dem Party. I don't think you'll find much correlation between foreign political stances and Thai preferences. While most liberals I know are extremely wary of the PAD/junta/Dem coalition, I know some who do support them. To each, their own!

Would we support an egomaniac, self-centered b*astard underdog over an ultra-nationalist, right wing dominant; most of us would!

Edited March 20, 2009 by jumnien

[popshirt]

I cannot vote in your poll because I support neither red nor yellow.

I would describe myself as a white shirt.

In my home country I would be described as a left of centre liberal.

[Ulysses G.]

My main gripe is with the yellows. They cost me a lot of money during a year in which money is hard to come by. The fact that they are fascists is a secondary consideration.

[rixalex]

My main gripe is with the yellows. They cost me a lot of money during a year in which money is hard to come by.

Is that you Thaksin?!

[sanook2me]

no idea here red or yelow but for me - I'm a right wing supporter - all foreigners should go home if nothing positive to contribute - dont come here if you cannot support yourself financially or legally.

I would like to see more ultra right wing movements done in the best possible taste back in blighty - it would be a much better island.

Dont know & dont really care but i do like the cheeky idea of red clapper feet over yellow hand clappers...

[adjan jb]

Neither red nor yellow

Neither god nor master

[dominique355]

Coming from Europe, colored shirts as a political identification are highly suspect and maybe even downright nightmareish. We have had black shirts (camice nere) from Mussolini, brown shirt from Adolf etc. so I guess most Europeans don't want to side with colored shirts, no matter what the color is.

Personally I find it very pretentious of the PAD to claim the color Yellow for themselves. I always thought this color was "reserved" for HM.

[TAWP]

My main gripe is with the yellows. They cost me a lot of money during a year in which money is hard to come by. The fact that they are fascists is a secondary consideration.

Funny, since you supported the fascist [police state] movement in the US...

[autonomous_unit]

I think if you could separate the different Thai factions that make up yellow or red camps, you'd find their sister factions in the west are scattered among different political parties.

Is the red/yellow thing primarily a rural versus urban issue? Or establishment versus individual? Or populist versus ruling elite? Or constitutional law (and if so, against which side)? Or old-money versus new-money?

I think the different factions would answer this differently.

[Jingthing]

I don't think they translate to western right and left. PERIOD.

[rixalex]

I don't think they translate to western right and left. PERIOD.

Completely agree. And the same goes not only for the red and the yellow camp, but most political parties in Thailand.

What i wasn't trying to do was put labels on any groups in Thailand. I was just after a guage as to whether foreigners in Thailand who do align themselves to one of the camps, share similar beliefs politically, outside of Thailand.

[PhilHarries]

I'd describe myself as a Hawaian shirt, now it's Friday night so where's the party?

[nightingale]

Neither red nor yellow

Neither god nor master

I agree with this!

[dudemeister]

Edited March 20, 2009 by dudemeister

[Ulysses G.]

My main gripe is with the yellows. They cost me a lot of money during a year in which money is hard to come by. The fact that they are fascists is a secondary consideration.

Funny, since you supported the fascist [police state] movement in the US...

I supported the democratically elected government, as I do now. It does not really matter what the world's immature malcontents and raving loonies call it as they are never satisfied anyway.

[barrybike]

GREEN SHIRT ........come on ireland for the rugby grand slam tomorrow

[rixalex]

The fact that they are fascists is a secondary consideration.

Fascist is a term which seems to be banded around liberally on this forum without much thought. I sometimes wonder if people even know what it means.

The thinking seems to be, if there's a political movement you don't agree with, just label them communists or fascists.

[henryalleman]

The fact that they are fascists is a secondary consideration.

Fascist is a term which seems to be banded around liberally on this forum without much thought. I sometimes wonder if people even know what it means.

The thinking seems to be, if there's a political movement you don't agree with, just label them communists or fascists.

As you said, some people have no idea what's the meaning of Fascism. Like you, I noticed that some people find it more easy to throw some meaningless insult rather than to have an debate with arguments.

[henryalleman]

Its very difficult to vote, because what is right or left wing. Because for Europeans its a complete different concept than for Americans. They call Obama left wing, Europeans regard him as right wing.

Also the concept of liberalism is totally different in Europe and the US. The Americans will call European liberal parties even communist. The same go's for Conservative.

Europeans and Americans have a complete different concept about how to organize a society. That's make it very difficult or almost impossible to have an political discussion because we don't mean the same thing when we write welfare state, left or right wing or social security.

I can be wrong, but I have the feeling that Europeans are more tolerant towards different opinions without throwing words like Commie, Nazi or Fascist. If I'm wrong just tell me.

Back to the poll.

I'm in favour of the democratic party in a Thai political concept, but if I compare them with any European political concept I disagree harshly with many thing. Implementing stringent lese-Majesty laws is only one of them.

That's why I didn't cast my vote for this poll. Because in my political view, right and left wing are concepts of the past, modern society is far more complicated than that. Even, in so called left and right wing parties there are left and right wingers.

And so am I, in some issues I'm far right and in others far left.

[Ulysses G.]

The fact that they are fascists is a secondary consideration.

Fascist is a term which seems to be banded around liberally on this forum without much thought. I sometimes wonder if people even know what it means.

The thinking seems to be, if there's a political movement you don't agree with, just label them communists or fascists.

Of course everyone else is not as clever as you and henry, but, when a nationalistic group who freely admit they want to get rid of direct democracy drive out the elected government by means of a military coup d’état and violently disrupt the entire country while the police and military support and ignore their crimes, it might not be too far from the truth to refer to them as fascistic.

Edited March 21, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[Jingthing]

Personally, I wouldn't take the bizarro political stylings of the poster H. Alleman very seriously at all. They reflect a thinly veiled anti-Americanism from the very same poster who when he waxed poetical about how Adolph Hitler accomplished many wonderful innovative things (I kid you not) for the German Volk (one wonders if the would even call Hitler a fascist) and I deigned to label him a Hitler apologist he nearly had a hissy fit. I didn't even call him a Nazi or a fascist, just a Hitler apologist, an obvious fact, and he later attributed this to some kind of ignorant political pathology I have due to my unfortunate Americanism.

While I agree and many informed Americans would agree that Obama is not technically a far left wing leader (more of a left leaning moderate) one wonders what Hilter apologist H. Alleman would label George W Bush if he calls Obama right wing. Of course these things are relative and a European left winger is further to the left than an American left winger. In other words a real socialist hasn't a prayer to win even a local election in the US (with a few exceptions).

Regarding Thailand, I am not inclined to label one side or the other as the fascist side as I think symptoms of fascism can be seen on both sides.

Edited March 21, 2009 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

I wouldn't take the bizarro political stylings of the poster H. Alleman very seriously at all. They reflect a thinly veiled anti-Americanism from the very same poster who when he waxed poetical about how Adolph Hitler accomplished many wonderful innovative things for the German Volk...

Regarding Thailand... I think symptoms of fascism can be seen on both sides.

Agreed!

Edited March 21, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[Jungian]

Although I believe in democracy, liberty, the right to pursue happiness and justice for all people no matter where they are in the world; to have an opinion or political view about Thailand's political turmoil is frankly none of my business as I am not a citizen nor do I have the right to vote. The Thai people didn't invite me to come here and swim in their soup or start a revolution thus I keep my opinions to myself and trust them to work out their differences as my country did and still is doing. It really annoys me when American celebrities come to Thailand and tell the Thai's they are bad people for not letting the Burmese into Thailand, I would suggest they go Back to the USA where their opinion actually counts and let the Mexicans and Cubans in if they really feel that strongly about human rights. We destroyed our own economy with pure and simple greed and corruption thus we should worry about ourselves and clean up our back yard before we even think about trespassing into new territory.

[Ulysses G.]

Plenty of people who are not American have opinions about our politics and I don't mind.

I have lived in Thailand for 20 years. It is hard not to form an opinion about certain things, but I have no intention to join in any demonstrations or political rallies any time soon.

Edited March 21, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[rixalex]

Of course everyone else is not as clever as you

Don't see how stating truisms moves this debate forward

[Ulysses G.]

Sorry, I guess you require a smiley that points out sarcasm to get the point.

[rixalex]

Sorry, I guess you require a smiley that points out sarcasm to get the point.

Yes Ulysses, i got that you were being sarcastic - thought that was obvious?! No?

[Ulysses G.]

We were both being sarcastic.