Wtf Happen With The Liter Supersport Bikes 2009?

[Bard]

I am pretty keen on a track bike and started to look around.

Just checked the specs for 2009 models liter bikes and guess what, they're all around 200 kg the ZX-10R is 208 kg etc. Now looking at the 2008 models they're all around 170 kg... So what happened? is it a new rule on the track that the liter bikes must be 200 kg or something?

Why did they bloat 30 kg in one year?

Looks like bike for the track would be better in 2008 edition or older for me...

Cheers Bard

[Travelmate]

Have they really put on so much weight. Think mine was 170kgs or something like that.

Don't forget you will shed a lot of weight when you take all the street stuff off. And fit it with a race fairing. Things like headlamps weigh a ton.

[thaicbr]

I think before it was dry weight now they tell you wet/kerb weight. but then maybe i'm wrong. soooooooooooooooo many unregistered bikes on Mocyc going wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy cheap now. perfect for track bikes.

Allan

[BigBikeBKK]

I think before it was dry weight now they tell you wet/kerb weight. but then maybe i'm wrong. soooooooooooooooo many unregistered bikes on Mocyc going wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy cheap now. perfect for track bikes.

Allan

LOL- yeah, now is the perfect time to pick up a grey market bike for CHEAP in the LOS!

Regarding the extra weight on new model bikes, I'm guessing a lot has to do with the stricter emission regulations. In order for new bikes to pass the EURO regulations I suspect the exhaust systems on newer bikes are a lot heavier due to the addition of more catalyzers and who knows what other pollution control devices. I recall in the USA that bikes in California were always a few pounds heavier due to California's emission laws which were more strict than the rest of the country.

I think aftermarket exhaust will lead to a significant weight reduction. I've always wondered- can one ditch the charcoal canister too? Would that have any negative impact on a bike's performance?

I just received the Two Bros can for my ER6n. It weighs about 2kg compared to the stock can which weighs something like 10 or 12Kg! (I have not yet weighed the two cans, but the difference is quite obvious.)

Happy Trails!

Tony

[AnthonyR1]

i just googled a few different model year specs.....my 2004 R1 173KG but they all quoted "dry weight"...all the '09 models i googled quoted "wet weight"....odd, maybe a new regulation to quote more realistic specs?

so with the 15 or 17 liters of fuel, coolant, oil, etc....they're still probably quite close

a liter of fuel weighs about .8 of a kg.....so 15 liters is 12 kg just in fuel alone. don't know how heavy oil or coolant is?

[neverdie]

i just googled a few different model year specs.....my 2004 R1 173KG but they all quoted "dry weight"...all the '09 models i googled quoted "wet weight"....odd, maybe a new regulation to quote more realistic specs?

so with the 15 or 17 liters of fuel, coolant, oil, etc....they're still probably quite close

a liter of fuel weighs about .8 of a kg.....so 15 liters is 12 kg just in fuel alone. don't know how heavy oil or coolant is?

Oils weigh differently between products, engine oils vary between about .76 & .92 kg per litre. Fresh water at 4 deg celcius weighs 1kg per litre, i would imagine that coolant would be similar in weight to the oils and fuels.

edit: From what I have just read, coolant depending on type and mixutres etc could be slightly heavier than 1kg per litre.

If you worked on all your liquids equalling 1kg per litre, you would probably come within a whisker

Edited March 23, 2009 by neverdie

[neverdie]

Sorry, Have to go again:

The 2009 R1 weights in at 205.9kg WET

It has a 18.2 litre tank - approx 14.6 kg

It takes 3.73 litres of engine oil. - approx 3kg

I cant comment on the radiator capacity.

[Bard]

Guys you're right they are now wet weight vs old dry weight, why would they list wet weight on a bike when they're great for track? Like anyone ever put full tank on a track...

Anyway that cleared up my complete shock.

Cheers Bard

[Bard]

As I am looking for a track bike and probably have to cancel further bike buys after that here is what is on my mind.

I can buy a invoice bike and get race fairing el-cheepo and run with it, e.g. Found 2001 R1 for 140 000 Baht plus fairing 12 000 and Galfer 120 $ and I am good to get started, also found Gixxers and ZX10R in these prices.

Now then Travelmate ruined everything by telling me about Daytona 675 price is not to horrid in LOS and it is a great track bike, only thing I wonder about would the Daytona be in 600 or liter class? If it is in the 600 group in Thailand I probably have to forget about that one though... If not it would be a cool track/fun road bike for me with a 3 cyl soul to match... If it can run with literbikes you have an awesome tool in LOS as the track record on the fastest track (Bira) is done with 600's so with it's 165 kg it is probably a great fit here and there should be no problem making a lot of the literguys sweat when you lean on them in the curves

Cheers Bard

[Travelmate]

Hey it ain't easy trying to find the perfect track weapon.

I still say buy a litre bike. Better if the bike is 2004 onwards. As all bikes are very similar from that point onwards. (powerwise).

Ok I'll narrow it down even further for you. Since we are in Thailand. Best choose between R1 04+ or a GXSR1000 05+. Parts seem to be a plenty for these. But if you got time and don't mind the hassle of sourcing parts overseas. Then consider one of the 4 Japanese litre bikes.

My order would be;

1. Gixxer 2005-06 forget about the rest.

2. Ninja ZX10R 2004 onwards

3. Yamaha R1 2004 onwards (but no slipper clutch!!)

4. Honda CBR1000RR 04 onwards. (Same as R1 no slipper)

Happy shopping.

[AnthonyR1]

2. Ninja ZX10R 2004 onwards

3. Yamaha R1 2004 onwards (but no slipper clutch!!)

Number 2????? what's that? never heard of it dude.

number 3....ya i know that beastie!

[GizmoBKK]

If you get a new street bike in Thailand, there is an 85 % import duty, right?

Now, someone told me if you are not going to register the bike for the roads (number plate), but you will use it as a race bike only, then you don't have to pay the import duty.

Consequently, you would pay for a new race bike maybe the same price as for a 2nd hand street bike (for which somebody else paid the import duty earlier, and you are now going to transform it into a track toy)...

True or false...?

[JimsKnight]

Daytona 600s are the beast. They come in at about 475k baht the last time I checked

[Bard]

Well according to what I heard for track bikes if you import is this;

You need to pay the duty for the parts, when you get them in, plus 3% and then plus 7% VAT I have no idea how much that ends up with tho. I see 2nd hand K5 1000 is about 300 - 350 k baht in Thailand which is obviously more than double of what you pay back home for one, you get a showroom K8 for 300k there...

That 300-350 k is for an invoice bike as well so on the road they confiscate it now, go figure probably a good deal of tax has been paid on them already...

I'll ask my mate if he can bring one in for me for cost... K6 is around 5000 $ abroad...

Cheers Bard

[thaicbr]

Hi Bard. Am i missing something here. has there been a large number of new race tracks opened in Thailand in the last few months therefore making a full race series possible. Or is it still pretty much just Bira and Nakhon Chaisi, both of which are about the size of a big Go kart track back home . I'm sorry to ask but i'm getting confused (which as you know is not difficult )

Allan

[Travelmate]

Daytona 600s are the beast. They come in at about 475k baht the last time I checked

When did you last check??

Daytona 675 currently trading at TB600,000.

[Travelmate]

Hi Bard. Am i missing something here. has there been a large number of new race tracks opened in Thailand in the last few months therefore making a full race series possible. Or is it still pretty much just Bira and Nakhon Chaisi, both of which are about the size of a big Go kart track back home . I'm sorry to ask but i'm getting confused (which as you know is not difficult )

Allan

Do you have something worthy to add??

[LivinLOS]

Well according to what I heard for track bikes if you import is this;

You need to pay the duty for the parts, when you get them in, plus 3% and then plus 7% VAT I have no idea how much that ends up with tho. I see 2nd hand K5 1000 is about 300 - 350 k baht in Thailand which is obviously more than double of what you pay back home for one, you get a showroom K8 for 300k there...

That 300-350 k is for an invoice bike as well so on the road they confiscate it now, go figure probably a good deal of tax has been paid on them already...

I'll ask my mate if he can bring one in for me for cost... K6 is around 5000 $ abroad...

Cheers Bard

Have you considered running the risk of riding in from Malaysia.. I have ridden that broder before and just ridden through both ways without any stops.. If they stop you bring it in as a temp import and take out and try again..

Once in without a stamp just track it..

[Bard]

Well obviously I have something to add:)

You got Bira and Nakhon Chaisi then you have the road race in Bang Saen, to top it off you can also do tracks in Malaysia... I was into gokarts for a while and I do not see a resemblance with Bira and a kart track at all. Anyway there is a superbike class in Thailand, and if everybody think in the box and say it's only few tracks in Thailand what is the point they miss out on the fun the few tracks really are. They also do not contribute anything to increase the number of tracks, which is only possible by riding on the tracks, with enough people there is a market for expansion.

There is also the drag in Bangkok which is fun...

I love track riding it is brilliant, and it improves your riding skills on the road a lot.

Bira is 2 410 m long so no it's not a formula 1 track but they race formula 3 cars there, in comparison Sepang is 5 542 m long, track record on Bira is 1:02 (R6) and Sepang 2:04 (MotoGP) and since Bira is narrower (11m vs 16m) and do not have a long straight section as Sepang, it is more technical to ride, the lap time is impressive. Last Sunday I meet Team Yamaha there who practiced, they compete in Sepang and find Bira to be an excellent place to hone skills.

So I don't really get the question? Is it only few tracks in Thailand? Yes... What has that to do with going into racing? If there were no tracks I understand, but we have tracks here, they are really cheap to ride, 1000 baht for 1/2 day, dude check back home and it's easily 5 times that price, and you have to do a lot to your bike to be allowed there, plus there are so many people on the tracks you have to ride in turns... Here any bike, jump on and ride, mostly in weekdays you're alone, weekends normally 5 - 6 people riding on Bira, awesome... They are also super friendly, as an amateur they do not yell "you idiot was in my line"... You ask and they help out with line selection, and give you a heap of help for free. Beat that back home... Don't think so... You're new and people have a nose in the sky, you're almost not worthy talking to, you're slow in there line and you get hammered, and who want to help a mere mortal on the track? Go pay for help dude...

Cheers Bard

[Bard]

Well according to what I heard for track bikes if you import is this;

You need to pay the duty for the parts, when you get them in, plus 3% and then plus 7% VAT I have no idea how much that ends up with tho. I see 2nd hand K5 1000 is about 300 - 350 k baht in Thailand which is obviously more than double of what you pay back home for one, you get a showroom K8 for 300k there...

That 300-350 k is for an invoice bike as well so on the road they confiscate it now, go figure probably a good deal of tax has been paid on them already...

I'll ask my mate if he can bring one in for me for cost... K6 is around 5000 $ abroad...

Cheers Bard

Have you considered running the risk of riding in from Malaysia.. I have ridden that broder before and just ridden through both ways without any stops.. If they stop you bring it in as a temp import and take out and try again..

Once in without a stamp just track it..

That will be on my agenda for sure...

Cheers LivinLOS

[JimsKnight]

Yeah that price was from memory from an old p/c handed out in Hua Hin. Petchburi sell triumphs have a satellite outlet there. No Daytona's hence the p/c they handed out.

600,000 sounds right. I was probably getting mixed up with there entry level bike

Just another reason to get out of Hua Hin, go where the real bikes are

[LivinLOS]

Well obviously I have something to add:)

You got Bira and Nakhon Chaisi then you have the road race in Bang Saen, to top it off you can also do tracks in Malaysia...

How would you take an unregistered bike in and out of the country ??

There is an AMA carnet for motorsport events but its only for commercial racers not privateers without a company.. And I doubt the Thai chamber of commerce would be too easy to work with for a farang ??

and if everybody think in the box and say it's only few tracks in Thailand what is the point they miss out on the fun the few tracks really are. They also do not contribute anything to increase the number of tracks, which is only possible by riding on the tracks, with enough people there is a market for expansion.

So I don't really get the question? Is it only few tracks in Thailand? Yes... What has that to do with going into racing? If there were no tracks I understand, but we have tracks here, they are really cheap to ride, 1000 baht for 1/2 day, dude check back home and it's easily 5 times that price, and you have to do a lot to your bike to be allowed there, plus there are so many people on the tracks you have to ride in turns... Here any bike, jump on and ride, mostly in weekdays you're alone, weekends normally 5 - 6 people riding on Bira, awesome...

All well and good if you live within a days ride of the track.. it would take me most of the weekend to ride there, let alone back again..

[BigBikeBKK]

All well and good if you live within a days ride of the track.. it would take me most of the weekend to ride there, let alone back again..

The Bardster lives 15 minutes from BIRA- the lucky bastard!!!

[Travelmate]

Yeah that price was from memory from an old p/c handed out in Hua Hin. Petchburi sell triumphs have a satellite outlet there. No Daytona's hence the p/c they handed out.

600,000 sounds right. I was probably getting mixed up with there entry level bike

Just another reason to get out of Hua Hin, go where the real bikes are

Cheapest Triumph on offer is a Bonneville @ TB535,000.

Since you are based in Hua Hin. Triumph has a little area at the The Village shopping centre. Check it out for yourself.

[Bard]

Well obviously I have something to add:)

You got Bira and Nakhon Chaisi then you have the road race in Bang Saen, to top it off you can also do tracks in Malaysia...

How would you take an unregistered bike in and out of the country ??

There is an AMA carnet for motorsport events but its only for commercial racers not privateers without a company.. And I doubt the Thai chamber of commerce would be too easy to work with for a farang ??

and if everybody think in the box and say it's only few tracks in Thailand what is the point they miss out on the fun the few tracks really are. They also do not contribute anything to increase the number of tracks, which is only possible by riding on the tracks, with enough people there is a market for expansion.

So I don't really get the question? Is it only few tracks in Thailand? Yes... What has that to do with going into racing? If there were no tracks I understand, but we have tracks here, they are really cheap to ride, 1000 baht for 1/2 day, dude check back home and it's easily 5 times that price, and you have to do a lot to your bike to be allowed there, plus there are so many people on the tracks you have to ride in turns... Here any bike, jump on and ride, mostly in weekdays you're alone, weekends normally 5 - 6 people riding on Bira, awesome...

All well and good if you live within a days ride of the track.. it would take me most of the weekend to ride there, let alone back again..

In and out is not that hard as soon as it's in actually, done that before with race cars and gokarts, all owned by Falangs. You do the race driver license from BKK, show that, then an invoice explaining what and where you go, stamped by local chamber, in Rayong it's very foreign friendly so maybe that's why it never been a problem getting the papers sorted here, I donno...

Yes I am lucky 15 minutes and I'm there mate, then drop by secretsoi on the way home, love it...

Cheers Bard

[thaicbr]

Travekmate i was asking a question because i thought that it might have been possible that a nationwide race series had been planned. if it came across as sarcastic then i apologise that was not my intention.

Thank you Bard for the info. as Livinlos, i did not think you could take unregistered bikes out of the country, therefore being limited to Thailand. I know you guys love the racing but i was asking IF there was a race series AND if there were bigger tracks than Bira. Bard. MY tongue in cheek comment about kart track was really to show that Bira is a short track and we could do with a longer track as you said.

Allan