Working in thailand without a work permit ?

[en184]

Hi,

I am considering a position in BKK.  But the company is not willing to sponsor a work permit, and the job is entirely sales based, renumerated only by commission.

Is it normal for foreigners to work in thailand without a work permit, on commission only jobs selling financial services to expats there?

Please advise

[keestha]

It doesnt matter if you receive a salary or just commissions, to work in Thailand legally you definitely need a work permit.

[Pinkster]

en184, it sound to me like you are getting involved in a 'boiler room' enterprise. If so, the moral and ethical issues are far higher than the legal ones that you might encounter.

Follow this link

http://www.thaivisa.com/index.p....ews=484

[en184]

Its actually one of the more reputable financial advisory companies.  At the interview, I was told, that doing visa runs would be fine and alot of people work this way.

Sure, cold calling is part of the business.  You gotta get your customers somehow.

[jayrockwell]

Working without a work permit is illegal in Thailand. 'one of the more reputable companies', rubbish, reputable companies don't operate in this way. Wake-up before you end-up in the Immigration Detention Centre.

James

[Indo-Siam]

en184 -

The other posters are right.  No reputable financial services firm would ever come close to hiring someone into a job in Bangkok and not providing a work permit.

You are dealing with scam artists.  Maybe good ones, maybe well-polished - but crooks nonetheless.

How about posting this firm's website, so we can all take a look?

If they don't have a website ......... how big and reputable did you say they were?

Best pass on this one.

Regards,

Indo-Siam

[dr_Pat_Pong]

They are all correct ...don't do it the IDC is an awful place, and persona non grata here  has lotsa other implications

[kwiz117]

What about this situation ???

I know one guy earning income after becomming a member of a very successful Network Sales Company in Thailand. [MLM]

They call the monthly income as a Commission and also they pay him some Bonus each month based on the performance of members under his belt.

He does VISA runs and to tell you, the company is one of the leading Companies in this trade. [ A multinational]. He also told me that he has some more foreigners under his belt.

I am not sure whether en184 is referring to this type of a business.

Anyway, it is interesting to know the legal situation with Network Marketing Companies in Thailand.  

May be this also could be illegal under the law for foreigners. But when do such a “self employed” and indirect business, no one will be able to catch you.  Am I correct?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Working without a work permit is illegal in Thailand. 'one of the more reputable companies', rubbish, reputable companies don't operate in this way. Wake-up before you end-up in the Immigration Detention Center

However you cut it, work is work, including voluntary work.

[en184]

Thanks for your responses.

What happens if you get caught?  Fine/ deportation/ prison / blacklisted for return to thailand?

I prefer to remain anonymous about the company.  Thailand is a small place and alot of people read this website.

[GlenTuk]

Thanks for your responses.

What happens if you get caught?  Fine/ deportation/ prison / blacklisted for return to thailand?

I prefer to remain anonymous about the company.  Thailand is a small place and alot of people read this website.

If you get caught you may well have all four you mention thrown at you !!!    ??? Afterall T.i.t.

[Butterfly]

Hi,

I am considering a position in BKK.  But the company is not willing to sponsor a work permit, and the job is entirely sales based, renumerated only by commission.

Is it normal for foreigners to work in thailand without a work permit, on commission only jobs selling financial services to expats there?

Please advise

Do it. Absolutely no problem. Make sure to have a non-immigrant B visa if you can. Make sure to be paid "outside" Thailand. There is no way they can catch you for this. The trick is not to overstay or do something very illegal like drugs or stealing people money. Otherwise you are as free as you want it to be. I have seen this type of things happened before and a lot of "expats" insurance companies and "investment management" companies (real not scam) have been operating like this all over Asia and even in Thailand. I have met a few financial planners and insurance brokers working for big international corps be stationed in Thailand and selling their "policies" all over Thailand to expats. This is a "gray" area where you don't really work for a Thai or farang company as long as your commissions are paid outside Thailand. No work permit necessary.

Some people here are too cautious and you can't survive long in Thailand if you want to be "straight" all the way.

[en184]

Thanks for your message butterfly.  Do these financial brokers do well, or go broke?

[Butterfly]

Thanks for your message butterfly.  Do these financial brokers do well, or go broke?

Not too bad. I was playing golf with them and they were giving 1000 bath notes as tips in the bars (just kidding)

They were doing quite well and living in 50K bath per month apartments. Some I have known for years and they still keep coming to Thailand and stay there for 3 or 4 months per year to do their sales. Some were even hunting in Pattaya to sell insurance policies to farang owners there.

They were probably making something like 80K or 100K Bath per month. Maybe more. They never really disclosed it to me.

[en184]

How many times can you cross the border every 30 days, before they start to ask questions?

[Butterfly]

How many times can you cross the border every 30 days, before they start to ask questions?

I have heard of a trick with the 60 days tourists visa that could lasted 6 month. Basically you do your 60 days then ask for an extension (30 days), after which you leave the country (or have it stamped) and return on the same visa (multiple entry 60 days, do they exist ???) for another 60 days and then do a final 30 days extenstion. Does this still work ? I have met farangs who would swear on the reliability of that trick. Never done it myself. I always had non-immigrant visa.

[Pinkster]

In some ways Butterfly is right, fortune favours the brave as the saying goes. At worst i think his advice is irresponsible.

en184, what is your history? have you ever been involved in  brokering before? Are you starting as a novice? have you been involved in sales in your home country? If so, what kind?

en184, what is your motivation to come and work in Thailand, without a working visa?

[ChiangMaiThai]

How many times can you cross the border every 30 days, before they start to ask questions?

As far as I know, no one has been able to confirm this yet. We heard awhile back that a new law was in place limiting the number of no visa stays to 6 as they want to force you to a consulate to actually apply for a tourist visa in order to weed out the criminals.

However, I asked immigration at Mae Sai last month and they said that according to the law, there is no limit. I will be up there again soon and I will ask again. Will post what they tell me.

[en184]

I got a taste of asia working in singapore and had a beautiful thai GF living with me.  After the crash of the e-business bubble, I lost all. GF, condo, job, etc. No money, no honey like they say.

I have since been working in Europe in a brokerage job but life is not fun.  I have  aquired a condo in LOS and plan to move back to asia pacific soon.  Thailand for me seems like the best destination.

[en184]

If not brokering, I will buy a business.  I have been reading through sunbelt asia website.  Seems like a good option.

[singa-traz]

I got a taste of asia working in singapore and had a beautiful thai GF living with me.  After the crash of the e-business bubble, I lost all. GF, condo, job, etc. No money, no honey like they say.

I have since been working in Europe in a brokerage job but life is not fun.  I have  aquired a condo in LOS and plan to move back to asia pacific soon.  Thailand for me seems like the best destination.

Is there a life after the .gone business ?

... as for the Work Permit ... if you work solo, you are pretty safe ... if you work in a Team, with collegues (Thai or Foreigner)... any unhappy defection can potentially brings you problems ...

[davidm]

I know several financial services companies used to have consulatants working in Thailand without necessary paperwork because they covered more than one country and the hassle of getting a work permit was worse than the very slight risk of getting caught. The consultants appeared to be honest to their clients i.e. they were selling genuine pension plans and insucrance cover, but the other disadvantage of using the services of someone who isn't legally registered is that if anything goes wrong, it's much easier for them to skip town in a hurry.

At least one financial services company in Bangkok is emulating the boiler rooms by hiring totally unqualified and unlicenced people to make sales appointments. From what I've heard, the sales staff have a real headache getting their commission and have no protection from Immigration. Give jobs like these a wide berth.

[Butterfly]

I know several financial services companies used to have consulatants working in Thailand without necessary paperwork because they covered more than one country and the hassle of getting a work permit was worse than the very slight risk of getting caught. The consultants appeared to be honest to their clients i.e. they were selling genuine pension plans and insucrance cover, but the other disadvantage of using the services of someone who isn't legally registered is that if anything goes wrong, it's much easier for them to skip town in a hurry.

At least one financial services company in Bangkok is emulating the boiler rooms by hiring totally unqualified and unlicenced people to make sales appointments. From what I've heard, the sales staff have a real headache getting their commission and have no protection from Immigration. Give jobs like these a wide berth.

Farangs should run away from any "boiler room" opportunities. Words spread and because mosts are "con" jobs, you can be sure as shit, it's a question of time before someone complains and raid the place with the police. There used to be a few in Pattaya. Not sure what happened of them since.

[en184]

Thanks for the advice butterfly.  I have my own concerns about the job, but on the plus side, the possibility to earn a very high tax free income from high sales exists, and the opportunity to live and work in thai.

Nothing wrong with boiler room brokerage outfits, as long as what they are selling is legal.

[Pinkster]

but usually, when the term 'boiler room' is applied, what stocks they are selling are of dubious nature!

Take the risk, but if you get caught out, you will be blacklisted never to return to thailand again.

You decide if it is worth the risk?

[Bud Zumwalt]

???

Get a business VISA, if you have the initital funds in the Thai bank for the required income monthly for the business. Have all your commissions posted as company income, thus subcontracting or working with the corporation as the legal enity, the corporation is considered, however corporate taxes must be paid to the Thai Government. At least your legal.

Bud

[en184]

I am worried after reading the latest news release about 15 britons being jailed?

[en184]

How do I get a business visa?

[en184]

I have no problems with paying taxes to the hai government, if they provide me with a visa.

Can I use investments in the thai stock market instead of bank deposits?  I don't like leaving cash sitting ideal not working.

[keestha]

En 184,

Not all advice given through these newsgroups is good, dont be led on the false track. Even if you would get hold of a business visa, working as a salesman for a company that cannot give you a work permit would still be illegal. In case you would establish a company yourself and subcontract work from the company where you actually work, you still wouldnt be given a work permit because of the screening that takes place before a work permit application is approved.