Uk Settlement; Spouse Visa Or Ile?

[Phil_ne_uk]

Once again thank you for your info 7by7

Phil

[seenbetta]

Hello 7by7, I've been reading all this info with a lot of attention and I'm really glad you started the thread. If you don't mind I have a few questions to ask.

We've just found out the wife is pregnant and have decided to go back to UK to have the little one. The wife and I have been married 2 years 6 months and we have never visited the UK together. We haven't decided how long to stay, but we might stay long enough to gain citizenship for the wife.

I was going to apply for a tourist visa first and take it from there, but seeing the advice you have given others, I think it might be possible to apply for a longer term visa, a spouse visa or some such. I see you mentioned filling in the vaf4a form, do you recommend that instead of the tourist visa?

Sorry if you think I'm being cheeky for asking, I often can't make head or tails out of government websites, some kind of selective dyslexia.

[7by7]

Two things to consider if she comes to the UK as a tourist:

1) As a tourist the maximum she could stay in the UK for would be 6 months.

2) As a tourist she would not be eligible for any NHS care except basic emergency cover.

So it seems to me that settlement as an unmarried partner would be your best option, even if you don't actually intend to remain in the UK after the birth. Yes, you would use form VAF4A.

See also Spouses

You child will, of course, have both Thai and British citizenship; wherever it is born. To qualify for naturalisation as British your wife will, among other requirements, need to reside in the UK for at least three years.

[seenbetta]

That's great advice 7by7, thanks. I'll definitely be applying for the spouse visa, thanks for drawing my attention to the medical care issue. I'd like to ask you some more questions, hope you're still feeling helpful.

We are married not just living together, but not married for 4 years. We've been married for 2 years 6 months. Will that affect the decision?

I see they have a clause in there regarding accommodation. I'll obviously have to arrange a rental agreement before applying?

Will there be an expectation that I, the sponsor, will be working immediately on entry?

Do you happen to know if there is a financial minimum I or the wife need to have in the bank for the application?

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions, I really appreciate it.

[7by7]

Apologies, I don't know why I thought you weren't married; you clearly said you were! She should, of course, apply as your spouse.

To qualify for ILE you need to have been living together for at least 4 years. You haven't, so your wife will be given a 27 month spouse visa instead. After 24 months in the UK she applies for ILR.

You will need to show that you have somewhere to live on arrival in the UK. Remember that staying with friends or relatives is acceptable.

There is no requirement for either of you to have a job to go to in the UK. However, you will need to show that you can support yourselves without recourse to public funds.

There is no minimum figure as such; but the courts have ruled that it would be inappropriate for an immigrant family to be living on less than the Income Support level for a UK resident family of the same size.

See Maintenance and accommodation

[seenbetta]

7by7, really big thanks for your great advice. Will let you know how it all works out. Good luck.

[AngryParent]

Apologies, I don't know why I thought you weren't married; you clearly said you were! She should, of course, apply as your spouse.

To qualify for ILE you need to have been living together for at least 4 years. You haven't, so your wife will be given a 27 month spouse visa instead. After 24 months in the UK she applies for ILR.

You will need to show that you have somewhere to live on arrival in the UK. Remember that staying with friends or relatives is acceptable.

There is no requirement for either of you to have a job to go to in the UK. However, you will need to show that you can support yourselves without recourse to public funds.

There is no minimum figure as such; but the courts have ruled that it would be inappropriate for an immigrant family to be living on less than the Income Support level for a UK resident family of the same size.

See Maintenance and accommodation

Thanks for your reply on the other topic.

OK:

1. Providing a spouse can meet all requirements, except for KOL and English language proficiency, will ILE be given?

2. Taking one of those ESOL (with citizenship) courses back in the UK take how long to complete and costs (can it be done at one of those local govt. evening schools/collegs)? Or in Thailand before (any contacts)?

[7by7]

As said in that other topic and in the opening post of this one; if you meet all the requirements for ILE except KOL then you will be issued ILE subject to KOL. This will be valid for 27 months. Once in the UK you have until the visa expires to satisfy KOL, either by passing the LitUK test or by progressing one stage in an ESOL with citizenship course at an approved educational establishment. See Demonstrating your knowledge of language and life in the UK. Once you have done this then you can apply for ILR without having to satisfy the 24 months residency requirement.

You will still have to satisfy the A1 English speaking and listening requirement before submitting a settlement visa application as a spouse or partner and submit the certificate for this with the application.

Whether taking the test or a course, the KOL requirement can only be satisfied in the UK. Most, if not all, local further education colleges in the UK offer ESOL with citizenship courses, so you should contact one convenient to you. Make sure that it is the right course, though; it must contain citizenship materials or it wont satisfy KOL. Sometimes such a course is called ESOL with skills for life.

A visitor to the UK can take the LitUK test while there; but a visitor cannot undertake a course of study so cannot attend an ESOL with citizenship course. Once passed, the LitUK test is valid for life, so if you have passed it on a previous visit and meet all the other requirements then you will be issued full ILE. This is also valid for 27 months. However, this is the date it must be 'activated' by first entering the UK. Once you have done that it will not expire and you will not need to make any further applications unless you wish to apply for British citizenship.

Note, though, that both ILE and ILR will lapse if the holder spends a continuous period of two or more years outside the UK and they can be canceled if it becomes apparent that the holder is actually living outside the UK and using their indefinite leave merely for visits.

There is some confusion over whether or not someone who has passed the LitUK test also needs an A1 certificate when applying for settlement as a spouse or partner. As the LitUK test does not include speaking and listening, one argument is that they do; but as it is a lot harder than the basic A1 test another argument is that they don't. I have in the past tried to get a definitive answer to this from the UKBA, without success. Therefore my feeling is that even if you have passed the LitUK test then you should also take the A1 test in speaking and listening (or acceptable equivalent) as the cost of doing so will be a lot less than the cost of a failed settlement application.

Finally, it is the applicant's responsibility to make sure that they show they meet the criteria for ILE. If the applicant doesn't do so then, assuming the usual criteria are met, they will be issued with a standard 27 month spouse or partner visa.

[AngryParent]

As said in that other topic and in the opening post of this one; if you meet all the requirements for ILE except KOL then you will be issued ILE subject to KOL. This will be valid for 27 months. Once in the UK you have until the visa expires to satisfy KOL, either by passing the LitUK test or by progressing one stage in an ESOL with citizenship course at an approved educational establishment. See Demonstrating your knowledge of language and life in the UK. Once you have done this then you can apply for ILR without having to satisfy the 24 months residency requirement.

You will still have to satisfy the A1 English speaking and listening requirement before submitting a settlement visa application as a spouse or partner and submit the certificate for this with the application.

Whether taking the test or a course, the KOL requirement can only be satisfied in the UK. Most, if not all, local further education colleges in the UK offer ESOL with citizenship courses, so you should contact one convenient to you. Make sure that it is the right course, though; it must contain citizenship materials or it wont satisfy KOL. Sometimes such a course is called ESOL with skills for life.

A visitor to the UK can take the LitUK test while there; but a visitor cannot undertake a course of study so cannot attend an ESOL with citizenship course. Once passed, the LitUK test is valid for life, so if you have passed it on a previous visit and meet all the other requirements then you will be issued full ILE. This is also valid for 27 months. However, this is the date it must be 'activated' by first entering the UK. Once you have done that it will not expire and you will not need to make any further applications unless you wish to apply for British citizenship.

Note, though, that both ILE and ILR will lapse if the holder spends a continuous period of two or more years outside the UK and they can be canceled if it becomes apparent that the holder is actually living outside the UK and using their indefinite leave merely for visits.

There is some confusion over whether or not someone who has passed the LitUK test also needs an A1 certificate when applying for settlement as a spouse or partner. As the LitUK test does not include speaking and listening, one argument is that they do; but as it is a lot harder than the basic A1 test another argument is that they don't. I have in the past tried to get a definitive answer to this from the UKBA, without success. Therefore my feeling is that even if you have passed the LitUK test then you should also take the A1 test in speaking and listening (or acceptable equivalent) as the cost of doing so will be a lot less than the cost of a failed settlement application.

Finally, it is the applicant's responsibility to make sure that they show they meet the criteria for ILE. If the applicant doesn't do so then, assuming the usual criteria are met, they will be issued with a standard 27 month spouse or partner visa.

Thanks! Just one more question.

What happens if one is on ILE or a spuse visa and within the 27 months the family unit needs to claim child support or tax credits or even housing benefits? Will a renewal not be granted or permanent ILE/R (after passing the KOL)?

[7by7]

If you have full ILE, i.e. not subject to KOL, or ILR then the prohibition on public funds no longer applies.

If you are subject to immigration time restrictions, e.g. have ILE subject to KOL or a standard settlement visa, then you are prohibited from claiming most public funds.

However; tax credits must be claimed jointly by a married couple. So not only can someone subject to immigration time restrictions be included in their spouse's tax credit claim; they must be.

By child support, I assume you mean child benefit. There is some confusion over whether a person in the UK as the spouse of a British citizen can claim child benefit or not; the guidance is not clear. However, one thing is certain; their British spouse can. What is more they can claim for all the children in the family unit, even if those children are from their partner's previous relationship(s) and themselves subject to immigration time restrictions.

The British partner can claim any and all public funds to which they are entitled, including housing benefits. However, they cannot claim any extra due to their immigrant spouse/partner and any immigrant children living with them.

[AngryParent]

If you have full ILE, i.e. not subject to KOL, or ILR then the prohibition on public funds no longer applies.

If you are subject to immigration time restrictions, e.g. have ILE subject to KOL or a standard settlement visa, then you are prohibited from claiming most public funds.

However; tax credits must be claimed jointly by a married couple. So not only can someone subject to immigration time restrictions be included in their spouse's tax credit claim; they must be.

By child support, I assume you mean child benefit. There is some confusion over whether a person in the UK as the spouse of a British citizen can claim child benefit or not; the guidance is not clear. However, one thing is certain; their British spouse can. What is more they can claim for all the children in the family unit, even if those children are from their partner's previous relationship(s) and themselves subject to immigration time restrictions.

The British partner can claim any and all public funds to which they are entitled, including housing benefits. However, they cannot claim any extra due to their immigrant spouse/partner and any immigrant children living with them.

Thanks for that!

So, tax credit is OK! CB and HB are grey areas - with the border at as long as it is not more than the British citizen was entitled to ALONE.

This internal system is at odds with the external system i.e. when applying for the spouse/ILE/ILR no benefits can be claimed by the family unit?

Also, is there not a HR and UK law discrepency issue as claiming benefits is prohibited by the spouse on the ILE - KOL (or lower visa status). Thus, if internally it is prohibited, then externally there should not be any conditions based on this (as it is prohibited anyways and will not be given). Hmm?

[7by7]

Some people are entitled to claim and receive certain public funds, others aren't. It depends on the persons circumstances and eligibility..

I fail to see what human rights have to do with it. Are you saying that because my disabled nephew gets a motability allowance and I don't that is an abuse of my human rights!?

[AngryParent]

Some people are entitled to claim and receive certain public funds, others aren't. It depends on the persons circumstances and eligibility..

I fail to see what human rights have to do with it. Are you saying that because my disabled nephew gets a motability allowance and I don't that is an abuse of my human rights!?

You ask a very valid and important question.

Let me turn this a bit, and please bear with me (full respect to your nephew). Your nephew gets the motability allowance because of current/previous suffering and the allowance is a form of (in law and politics) of raising this person up to an equal level of the masses (I think an even playing field would be a valid image).

Those with real families, but kept apart are in current/previous suffering, and at a lower postition than your nephew; thus, whilst your nephew is brought up to an equal level with the masses, the refused spouse applicants are kept in the lower position outside the gates of civilization (as ancient Rome and even Egypt used to call it).

As you mentioned, they are prohibited from claiming in the UK and they are prohibitted from claiming benefits abroad, then why maintain a gate that has no value?

If I may, such immigrants cannot claim in the UK, thus public funds are not at risk! So, this gate is mainly to keep out the outsiders and has nothing to do with HR or cutting costs or anything else! And if these outsiders are the family unit of a UK citizen, then it is against HR.

At the least, this is against Article 14. And if I can bring my spouse under EEA rights to a member state (within which law she is viewed the same as an EU citizen), then this discrimination to bring a spouse back to the UK is also breaking Article 16 (as aliens should be treated as citizens of member states)!

Yes? If yes, then I hope you can see, now, how HR has everything to do with this matter?

Edited December 5, 2011 by AngryParent

[7by7]

I really do not see your point. Each member state has it's own benefits system; some are better than others.

Whatever the system, there are criteria laid down by which the relevant authorities judge whether a claimant is entitled to those benefits or not.

If a claimant doesn't meet those criteria, they don't get the benefit.

One of the criteria for receiving most benefits in the UK is that the claimant is not subject to immigration control or time restrictions. As far as I am aware most, if not all, EEA states have a similar rule.

How you can consider that this is an infringement of their human rights is beyond me.

However, this is a topic about Indefinite Leave to Enter the UK as a spouse or partner. It is not a topic about the European Convention on Human Rights. On topic posts only in future, please. If you wish to discuss the ECHR and how it affects immigrants and a signatory country's immigration law, start a new topic.

[FuzzyDunlop]

Hi,

I currently live and work in Thailand and have lived with my gf for around 6/7 years and we have a 1 year old baby. We are currently looking at the possibility of moving to the UK for various reasons. I have a couple of quick points to clarify about the process:

• As I have been living with my gf in Thailand for over 4 years we could apply for ILE (subject to KOL). We have done the Buddhist ceremony a couple of years ago, but never got legally married as the intention was to do in the UK in front of my family. What sort of proof is required that you have been living together "in a relationship akin to marriage" all this time? The apartment lease is in my name and bills are in the landlords. Her tabian baan is for her family home. We can show we have been together over 2 years as she visited the UK with me back then, so should at least qualify for LLE.
  

Note that on the UKBA website in the section "can (you) apply to enter or remain in the UK as the unmarried or same-sex partner of a British citizen or someone who is settled here." it states

"you have been living together in a relationship akin to marriage or civil partnership which has been existing and genuine (not like a 'marriage of convenience') for at least 2 years;"

Has the rule changed from 4 years to 2 years?

• She will need to pass the A1 speaking and listening test, pass a TB test and we will need to show we can support without recourse to public funds and that we have somewhere to live, which can be my parents house initially.
  

• What about my daughter? The UKBA site has a section for Children of British Citizens and what they require. As I am a British citizen (other than by descent) my daughter, who was born in Thailand, is a British citizen by descent and, as such, has a right of abode in the UK. If we get her a British passport, am I correct in assuming that she would not need to apply for any sort of visa?
  

Cheers in advance for any responses

[FuzzyDunlop]

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