10,000 Police, Soldiers, Security Officials Deployed To Keep Security At Government House

[animatic]

The land deal was a heavy piece of corruption, and there are 12 other cases pending. Beside that every manager of a bigger company knows one story first hand.

Thaksin sold with several tricks the land at a much too low value to his wife, that was illegal.

To buy something at low value isn't illegal.

Good luck to follow up 12 other cases.

Court said nothing is wrong with the land case. He became 'criminal' because of the 2550 funny Constitution Law written by those who knocked him.

Who tells you this bullshit????

He is a convicted criminal for ignoring the anti-graft laws

on the books DURING HIS ADMINISTRATION.

His one conviction was based on laws on the books BEFORE he became PM.

He ignored them thinking he had to much power for anyone to dare fuc_k with him.

He was wrong and now is a convicted criminal.

FIDF is not a state agency! Case overturned! next please!

Of course you are parroting Thaksin's legal argument.

THAT argument WAS overturned.

[monkfish]

"parrotting" you have a way with words.

Not only am i "parroting" Thaksin's legal argument but also a JUDGMENT made by the SUPREME COURT no less in 1985!

Not sure why they changed there mind in 2009? may be they just needed a conviction eh?

May be he decided it was OK to buy the land based on that case? don't you think so?

[Journalist]

While I agree 100% his mouth will sink him the longer he talks,

I think he has crossed that Rubicon already,

but poor misguided people will be getting hurt in the violence if he continues.

Julius Caesar took his legionnaires across the Rubicon because he was about to be prosecuted for offenses during his first consulship- for which he could not be tried whilst soldiering in Gaul.

He was told he was forbidden to run for Consul again immediately - by various holier-than-thou figures in Rome, and therefore , unable to run for public office, he was unable to be exempt from his impending prosecution.

Backed into a corner and with his adversaries unwilling to do a deal, he came out fighting, There was a civil war ...and the Republic fell.

Can we learn from history?

[h90]

What numbers do you see currently?

Is there any chance the numbers wil increase tomorrow by the 8th?

can 300,000 people show up? On paper yes, but I just don't see how that many people really love Mr. T to actually show up.

I guess we will have to wait and see what numbers show up in 2 days. When he refused to meet last week it seemed to indicate there must be a card in his hand hes waiting to play.

here is what I consider a fair and very basic description of a run-down of events. Please let me know if Thomas Bell is accurate in his reporting.

Telegraph.co.uk

By Thomas Bell in Bangkok

Last Updated: 6:38PM BST 05 Apr 2009

One side is led by Thaksin Shinawatra. The former telecoms billionaire and deposed prime minister is a dubious champion of democracy. During his six years in power Mr Thaksin launched a "war on drugs" in which up to 2,000 alleged dealers were summarily executed by the police.

3000 with 50 % not related to drugs

I will give you 3000 and the 50%

In government he was dogged by corruption allegations, apparently unable to distinguish his own business interests from those of the country.

true nothing new with politicians of emerging countries i suppose

yes unfortunatly

He was no friend of the free media, although censorship is worse now than it was in Thaksin's day.

not sure about that, I recall that he controlled almost all media beside ASTV

Sondhi Limthongkul aka Leaderof the PAD aka Thai Media Mogul used media under his control to start the whole anti-thaksin movement

this is a man who lobbied against Thailand paying off foreign debt and apparently his own debt. When it didnt work he turned against his friend and became enemys.

you are right, but basically all other media, TV channels newspapers were under his control. Pressure was done on reseller to ban newspapers with different opinions. Bangkok Post changed "over-night" their style. So only two opinions were left. Without Sondhi it would be just Thaksins opinion.

On the other side is... who? Mr Thaksin has many vehement enemies among the middle and upper classes. It is difficult to tell how many because in Thailand opinion pollsters never ask the only question that really counts – who would you vote for?

I don't get that part " question that really counts – who would you vote for?"

Have you ever seen an across the board poll of thai citizens asking - who would you vote for? If its been done its never been published

I recall that I read several polls. But I must admit I didn't read any the last few months (I can't recall when I saw the last one.

They particularly object to Thaksin's alleged corruption and his government's challenge to Thailand's rigid social hierarchy. Qualms over the deadly "war on drugs", on the other hand, are mostly limited to hand-wringing foreign liberals.

I don't know any middle class Thai who don't know about it. That it only concerns foreign liberals is pure nonsense.

I agree most middle class do know about it, even the poor. Thing is do they care, would it affect how they vote? How many thai citizens appreciate human rights, im sure many were pleased considering it a clean-up - how many know or honestly care much about Rohingya boat people.

Unfortunately many don't care, you are right.

These well-healed opponents control most major institutions. They also claim they are acting to "protect the king", and this is where it gets difficult.

At Thaksins time, he controlled almost all major institutions, even courts, EC, police etc etc

I dont think its surprising in an emerging country who is in the very infancy of democracy at best (and as of lately it cant be called even this), to have a Prime Minister with far more power then is truly democratic.

yes you are right and that makes the comment that the opponents control most institutions wrong

Strict laws make any criticism of the monarchy punishable with up to 12 years in jail – in practice almost any discussion of the monarchy is prohibited. Last week a man, the breadwinner for his family, was jailed for 10 years for posting "insulting" pictures of the royal family online.

he modified pictures, that is something different than posting real pictures. Posting fake pictures about other people would be illegal in almost every country on this planet. Also to add that beside him there is no one in jail for LM. Most probably this guy will be also pardoned. The author is trying to create a complete wrong picture of the situtation.

No comment

King Bhumibol, 81, is "above politics" and he is widely and sincerely loved. Many Thais credit him with steering their country's modern development and intervening to solve periodic crises. The country's official doctrine of "sufficiency economics" is the king's own invention.

When politicians claim to act in the king's name they often accuse their opponents of disloyalty, potentially punishable by 12 years in jail. That can make politics very hard to talk about. Bhumibol, for his part, has been mostly silent.

In 2006 Mr Thaksin was accused of disloyalty to the king and overthrown by a military coup. Nevertheless, with Thaksin in exile, voters returned his supporters to power in elections at the end of 2007.

he was not overthrowned because of disloyalty. The election 2007 was won only because of massive vote buying

here is a paragraph from wikipedia (thaksin)

Election results and by-elections

Thaksin's TRT Party won the widely boycotted elections, gaining 462 seats in Parliament, with the ratio of voters to no-voters 16:10, not counting non-voters.^[105]

However, by-elections were needed for 40 TRT candidates who failed to win the minimum 20% required by the 1997 Constitution in an uncontested seat.^[106][107] The Democrat Party refused to contest them^[106] and, along with the PAD, petitioned the Central Administrative Court to cancel them.^[108] Chamlong Srimuang declared that the PAD would ignore the elections and "go on rallying until Thaksin resigns and Thailand gets a royally-appointed prime minister".^[109]

They were held on 25 April and resulted in the TRT winning 25 of the constituencies and losing 2. Yet another round of by-elections on 29 April was scheduled for 13 constituencies. The Thai Rak Thai Party was later accused and found guilty of paying smaller parties to contest the election to fulfill the 20% rule, while the Democrat Party was accused of paying smaller parties not to. The by-elections were suspended by the Constitution Court while it deliberated whether to annul the main elections. In press interviews in exile, Thaksin was to insist on his technical majority.^[110]

Thakskin had already won the election - to say there was massive vote buying, is to make it sound like voters got a 100 baht at the polling booth - it wasnt that way.

Im not saying its right at all. Just saying its not the way it happened. The coup happened in Sept. before the Oct re-election. Maybe they knew what the next likely results were going to be.

If Thaksin is a hero to the poor why wouldnt he have the majority support?

he bribed the EC, 2 or 3 people went into jail, he bribed small parties AND the parliament had too less people AND the caretaker government period was far over. So a complete out of the constitution already. The trigger (so is said) to the coup were the rumors of a bloodshed to get rid of the yellows

Mr Thaksin's one great virtue as a democrat is that he and his supporters have won each of three elections so far this decade.

and all with a never seen before electoral fraud

He is popular because for the first time in Thai history he campaigned on policies aimed at the rural majority – and then delivered. He earned massive admiration for schemes such as affordable health care.

and even more for credits which caused many farmers to loose their land, while he went thru Issan with Arab investors who wanted to buy land.

The pro-Thaksin government elected after the coup lasted less than a year. Protesters, some of them armed with golf clubs, bombs and guns, overran first Government House and then both Bangkok's airports, costing the economy untold millions.

OK there was one gun seen, but not even one evidence of a bomb. Only a few guards had golf clubs most other had nothing.

I think you must have been reading the local Bkk press and I was out of the country seeing and reading press in the US. What I saw was mobs of people with yellow here and there committing violence. It can all be seen on youtube. I also saw the airport closed, heard of tourist killed in car accidents on there way to other airports. The airport is an International airport and has no part in politics of thailand. It was a stupid move and it cost the country dearly.

On many of the cases I know people who saw it or even acting people, I would say in all or almost all cases it was self defense. just count how many yellows died and how many others. The airport move was sure costly, but before every night some people died due to the M79 bombings and one valid argument was: "The massive corruption costs far more than the airport close." The airport is of course part of politic in Thailand! The management is full of relatives and cronies of Thaksin, the Thai Airways labour union is yellow

They wore the royal colour, yellow, and claimed they were acting to protect the king from Thaksin's alleged republicanism.

one point of many.....

The movement received the public endorsement of the queen.

The People's Alliance for Democracy, as the movement is misleadingly called, argued that democracy does not work in Thailand because the peasantry are too simple to vote. They want a "new politics" in which 70 per cent of parliament is appointed.

always the same nonsense, not true!

The idea was thrown out there for a time - either way, this government was not elected and still calls itself democratic. - not true

the idea was that these "appointed" are elected in their society (I don't like the idea, but it is democratic). What is not democratic on this government. It is elected from the parliament (actually most of the coalition partner promised to support the Democrats before the election and got paid to change side to PPP (what shows that the complete system is rotten)

Last year's protests found widespread support among the conservative media which, in its rush to finish the Thaksinites for ever, abandoned factual reporting.

Thaksin denies that he is a republican, although some of his supporters undoubtedly are – or they are now.

At the end of last year a court dissolved the elected government

because of massive fraud in the last election

and the army brass summoned political bosses to hoist a new prime minister, Abhisit Vejjajiva, to power. The leaders of the airport protests were never punished – one even became foreign minister.

which PAD leader got foreign minister

Key appointments in Abhisit's government included PAD leader Kasit Piromya as Foreign Minister Massage parlor tycoon Pornthiva Nakasai was appointed Deputy Commerce Minister. Abhisit denied that there was any bargaining or deal-making behind the appointment of his Cabinet (wikipedia)

yes that guy spoke several times there, but he is not one of the core leader and not even one of the replacement leader. He just spoke there several times

Now Thaksin has dropped his bomb. In live video addresses to rallies around the country he identified two retired generals who are close advisers to the king and a small group of top judges as the conspirators who plotted his 2006 ousting and have allegedly been invisibly pulling Thailand's strings ever since.

The government is in a funk, panicking about how to block the transmissions. The army is said to be furious: Thaksin has broken the omerta and the government could not stop him. Commentators say he has gone too far and newspapers are openly demanding censorship to stop the revelations being heard.

government did not try to block it. I think nice to see how Thaksin discredit himself

Yet although the people Thaksin named have offered desultory denials, no one is seriously disputing the truth of his revelations. Apparently that it is not the point – in Thai politics the truth is not meant for public consumption.

Thailand aspires to be a serious country, a Western ally and a destination for tourists and investment, yet in the past few years the "land of smiles" has been more like the land of lies. A light cast on what takes place in the comfortable sitting rooms of power is long overdue.

so half true half nonsense.

50% is better then I give most the english papers here regarding politics Im sure I come across as a big Thaksin fan, honestly I just like to get to the truth. Im a fan of democracy and human rights. This is Thailands battle and I really dont consider myself a part of it. I pay taxes and vote in my own country.

I know several of the acting person. And I am not sure what I shall think about it......Some things might be childish but when you know the European or American politic, I don't have the feeling that the acting person are that much smarter, but at least people stand up in Thailand if they feel it is wrong

(somthing with the quote tags wrong)

[Old Man River]

FIDF is not a state agency! Case overturned! next please!

The court ruled unanimously that the FIDF was under the control of the state.

[monkfish]

FIDF is not a state agency! Case overturned! next please!

The court ruled unanimously that the FIDF was under the control of the state.

In 1985 the SUPREME COURT they ruled that it wasn't

[Steve2UK]

<snip>

[1]

Also to add that beside him there is no one in jail for LM. Most probably this guy will be also pardoned. The author is trying to create a complete wrong picture of the situtation.

<snip>

[2]

The pro-Thaksin government elected after the coup lasted less than a year. Protesters, some of them armed with golf clubs, bombs and guns, overran first Government House and then both Bangkok's airports, costing the economy untold millions.

OK there was one gun seen, but not even one evidence of a bomb.

<snip>

[3]

The government is in a funk, panicking about how to block the transmissions. The army is said to be furious: Thaksin has broken the omerta and the government could not stop him. Commentators say he has gone too far and newspapers are openly demanding censorship to stop the revelations being heard.

government did not try to block it.

<snip

[1] Darunee Chanchernsilpakul. Boonyuen Prasertying.

[2] http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Ping-Pong-Bo...nt-t234393.html

[3] "Govt desperate to block Thaksin's calls

By: BangkokPost.com

Published: 1/04/2009 at 05:08 PM

The government is searching desperately for ways to block former premier Thaksin Shinawatra's phone-ins to his supporters, with Information and Communications Technology Minister Ranongrak Suwanchwee in talks with CAT Telecom about cutting off the signal."

Continues at:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/politics/1...ksin-appearance

[Edit to add note: Apologies for the borderline use of the Post article quote with other material in one post. Unfortunately, given the manner in which the original post has been used as a notepad for comment and counter-comment responses, I can see no alternative. In any event, I think it's very clear what I have written in response to the numbered points and what is a direct quote - with link - from the Post article.]

Edited April 6, 2009 by Steve2UK

[monkfish]

In any case it's not as though Thaksin's wife had the deal served on a plate.

It was an open auction with other bidders, just happens that she paid 15% over the asking price at the time.

[kenai]

h90 thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I think we can agree on 50% and could debate a long time on other points and still end up just agreeing the entire system is messed up. There are of accusations of corruption and abuse on all sides.

Thailands politics the last few years, could be studied in a university for a semester as the study of - how not to obtain democracy.

Back in 2006 before the Coup I was against Thaksin, the corruption charges and human rights abuses were to much. My wife being from Chiang Mai area was and still is a fan of Thaksin. Although I dont support Thaksin I did not support a coup either.

The coup to me was the country giving up, and moving backward. There were legal processes and a constitution that should have been followed. Military leaders had no right to take over and doing so put the suspicion on them. Many thai feel the government is still controlled by the military and others. The events this fall and winter are carry-over from the coup as the struggle for leadership continues.

You can add to this the vast amount of poor in the country that do not feel represented, and why would they? The country is controlled by its wealthy and elite and it serves them, every year the poor get smarter and more aware though..

[kurtgruen]

Whow, I was just watching Abhisit's TV adress a few minutes ago, with a good Thai friend, who has many friends who are Reds. I told him, that I expected the numbers to be small on the 8th, in Bangkok, but he said...."They pay lot of money you know, I think there will be lot of people" When I asked him how much money, he said 4000 Baht. I just about fell off my chair. Thaksin must really be going for it.

This could turn from a non-event into something very dangerous yet. I hope not. Well, I guess we'll all find out, in two days, how many people 4000 Baht per person can buy.

That is a very high figure, though and shows that Thaksin is really desperate for bodies on the 8th.

If he is really paying 4000 Baht, my 20,000 Red Troll estimate will be wrong, because not many people can resist making that much money, for a few days work, esspecially, when Abhisit just promised them safe passage to Bangkok, among other things. Then, they see the massage chairs on the news, in front of Government House and all of a sudden, it looks very good....nearly a month's wages and free foot massages for a few days of clapping feet and hearts. Tempting :-)

You better get down there Koo. Take some pictures for us, while you are there. Sorry, don't know where to go collect your 4000.

[monkfish]

Whow, I was just watching Abhisit's TV adress a few minutes ago, with a good Thai friend, who has many friends who are Reds. I told him, that I expected the numbers to be small on the 8th, in Bangkok, but he said...."They pay lot of money you know, I think there will be lot of people" When I asked him how much money, he said 4000 Baht. I just about fell off my chair. Thaksin must really be going for it.

This could turn from a non-event into something very dangerous yet. I hope not. Well, I guess we'll all find out, in two days, how many people 4000 Baht per person can buy.

That is a very high figure, though and shows that Thaksin is really desperate for bodies on the 8th.

If he is really paying 4000 Baht, my 20,000 Red Troll estimate will be wrong, because not many people can resist making that much money, for a few days work, esspecially, when Abhisit just promised them safe passage to Bangkok, among other things. Then, they see the massage chairs on the news, in front of Government House and all of a sudden, it looks very good....nearly a month's wages and free foot massages for a few days of clapping feet and hearts. Tempting :-)

You better get down there Koo. Take some pictures for us, while you are there. Sorry, don't know where to go collect your 4000.

Bull!

How many people do you know getting 4000 Baht?

[h90]

<snip>

[1]

Also to add that beside him there is no one in jail for LM. Most probably this guy will be also pardoned. The author is trying to create a complete wrong picture of the situtation.

<snip>

[2]

The pro-Thaksin government elected after the coup lasted less than a year. Protesters, some of them armed with golf clubs, bombs and guns, overran first Government House and then both Bangkok's airports, costing the economy untold millions.

OK there was one gun seen, but not even one evidence of a bomb.

<snip>

[3]

The government is in a funk, panicking about how to block the transmissions. The army is said to be furious: Thaksin has broken the omerta and the government could not stop him. Commentators say he has gone too far and newspapers are openly demanding censorship to stop the revelations being heard.

government did not try to block it.

<snip

[1] Darunee Chanchernsilpakul. Boonyuen Prasertying.

[2] http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Ping-Pong-Bo...nt-t234393.html

[3] "Govt desperate to block Thaksin's calls

By: BangkokPost.com

Published: 1/04/2009 at 05:08 PM

The government is searching desperately for ways to block former premier Thaksin Shinawatra's phone-ins to his supporters, with Information and Communications Technology Minister Ranongrak Suwanchwee in talks with CAT Telecom about cutting off the signal."

Continues at:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/politics/1...ksin-appearance

[Edit to add note: Apologies for the borderline use of the Post article quote with other material in one post. Unfortunately, given the manner in which the original post has been used as a notepad for comment and counter-comment responses, I can see no alternative. In any event, I think it's very clear what I have written in response to the numbered points and what is a direct quote - with link - from the Post article.]

Darunee, is the lady which liked the Guillotine in the french revolution as example for Thailand? I Austria if she tells that she wants to kill me, I can sue her as well.....

I think the case is still pending, you can't pardon someone who is not convicted.

"Boonyuen Prasertying" don't know him.

But as HM the King told, the last 50 or 100 (can't recall) years everyone was pardoned! Please show some cases in which this didn't happen.

Add 2: It is well known that the POLICE came with the Ping Pong bombs, therefore you find the victims at the protesters not at the police men.

Add 3: This article does not show anything beside that "Mrs Ranongrak" is pretty silly.

[kurtgruen]

Whow, I was just watching Abhisit's TV adress a few minutes ago, with a good Thai friend, who has many friends who are Reds. I told him, that I expected the numbers to be small on the 8th, in Bangkok, but he said...."They pay lot of money you know, I think there will be lot of people" When I asked him how much money, he said 4000 Baht. I just about fell off my chair. Thaksin must really be going for it.

This could turn from a non-event into something very dangerous yet. I hope not. Well, I guess we'll all find out, in two days, how many people 4000 Baht per person can buy.

That is a very high figure, though and shows that Thaksin is really desperate for bodies on the 8th.

If he is really paying 4000 Baht, my 20,000 Red Troll estimate will be wrong, because not many people can resist making that much money, for a few days work, esspecially, when Abhisit just promised them safe passage to Bangkok, among other things. Then, they see the massage chairs on the news, in front of Government House and all of a sudden, it looks very good....nearly a month's wages and free foot massages for a few days of clapping feet and hearts. Tempting :-)

You better get down there Koo. Take some pictures for us, while you are there. Sorry, don't know where to go collect your 4000.

Bull!

How many people do you know getting 4000 Baht?

I don't think it's bull, otherwise, I wouldn't post it. I was hoping that maybe someone else can confirm this, who has a Thai wife or Thai friend who is RED? My friend may be many things, but he is not a liar and neither am I. He sincerely believes this to be true. Believe me, it was hard for me to believe, too, because the usual amount that he used to pay, for people to go to Chiang Mai, from Chiang Dao, was between 200 - 500 Baht, plus 800 Baht for the truck driver. 4000 is a lot, but then again, like my friend just said, Bangkok is a long way away from home.

To answer your question, Monkfish, at the moment, I don't know anyone who received 4000 Baht, but as I find out who did and who goes to Bangkok, as a result of receiving that amount, I will post the numbers here.

Edited April 6, 2009 by kurtgruen

[Insight]

AFAIK, ringleaders get large amounts who are then supposed to split it up, using it to bring people to the rally - hence the lower 200-500 baht denominations. This may explain the 4k figure you've heard, kurtgruen.

Or Thaksin has gone completely mental and really is shelling out 4k per person in a last ditch attempt (yeah right) to bring the masses.

Edited April 6, 2009 by Insight

[h90]

Whow, I was just watching Abhisit's TV adress a few minutes ago, with a good Thai friend, who has many friends who are Reds. I told him, that I expected the numbers to be small on the 8th, in Bangkok, but he said...."They pay lot of money you know, I think there will be lot of people" When I asked him how much money, he said 4000 Baht. I just about fell off my chair. Thaksin must really be going for it.

This could turn from a non-event into something very dangerous yet. I hope not. Well, I guess we'll all find out, in two days, how many people 4000 Baht per person can buy.

That is a very high figure, though and shows that Thaksin is really desperate for bodies on the 8th.

If he is really paying 4000 Baht, my 20,000 Red Troll estimate will be wrong, because not many people can resist making that much money, for a few days work, esspecially, when Abhisit just promised them safe passage to Bangkok, among other things. Then, they see the massage chairs on the news, in front of Government House and all of a sudden, it looks very good....nearly a month's wages and free foot massages for a few days of clapping feet and hearts. Tempting :-)

You better get down there Koo. Take some pictures for us, while you are there. Sorry, don't know where to go collect your 4000.

Bull!

How many people do you know getting 4000 Baht?

there are different deals but 4000 is nonsense. Maybe for a group of person.

1000 Baht for 3 days was common before.

[h90]

Whow, I was just watching Abhisit's TV adress a few minutes ago, with a good Thai friend, who has many friends who are Reds. I told him, that I expected the numbers to be small on the 8th, in Bangkok, but he said...."They pay lot of money you know, I think there will be lot of people" When I asked him how much money, he said 4000 Baht. I just about fell off my chair. Thaksin must really be going for it.

This could turn from a non-event into something very dangerous yet. I hope not. Well, I guess we'll all find out, in two days, how many people 4000 Baht per person can buy.

That is a very high figure, though and shows that Thaksin is really desperate for bodies on the 8th.

If he is really paying 4000 Baht, my 20,000 Red Troll estimate will be wrong, because not many people can resist making that much money, for a few days work, esspecially, when Abhisit just promised them safe passage to Bangkok, among other things. Then, they see the massage chairs on the news, in front of Government House and all of a sudden, it looks very good....nearly a month's wages and free foot massages for a few days of clapping feet and hearts. Tempting :-)

You better get down there Koo. Take some pictures for us, while you are there. Sorry, don't know where to go collect your 4000.

Bull!

How many people do you know getting 4000 Baht?

I don't think it's bull, otherwise, I wouldn't post it. I was hoping that maybe someone else can confirm this, who has a Thai wife or Thai friend who is RED? My friend may be many things, but he is not a liar and neither am I. He sincerely believes this to be true. Believe me, it was hard for me to believe, too, because the usual amount that he used to pay, for people to go to Chiang Mai, from Chiang Dao, was between 200 - 500 Baht, plus 800 Baht for the truck driver. 4000 is a lot, but then again, like my friend just said, Bangkok is a long way away from home.

Lets say it is true

If taking 1.000.000 people*4000 is just 4 GigaBaht+say 2 GBaht lost in transit=6GB

considering the washing of 200 GB recently in the news, it should be possible and might has the same impact on the economic as Abhisits 2000 Baht cheque.

[kurtgruen]

AFAIK, ringleaders get large amounts who are then supposed to split it up, using it to bring people to the rally - hence the lower 200-500 baht denominations. This may explain the 4k figure you've heard, kurtgruen.

Or Thaksin has gone completely mental and really is shelling out 4k per person in a last ditch attempt (yeah right) to bring the masses.

I'll attempt to clarify it, Insight. Sometimes hard to do though, because my friend is aware that I sometimes post on here and I think he is worried that what he says might fall on the wrong ears and backfire on him. I have a couple of REDS in my family, too and also in the Club, I'll ask them, next time I see them. So far, none of the Reds in my family have gone to Bangkok yet. I would think that if somebody offered them 4000 Baht, they would be on the next truck, because that would be a fortune to them.

So who knows, my friend might have heard it wrong, or maybe, like you said, he might have been talking about one of the ring leaders. Anyways, I think he is an honest man and so am I. I reported it as I heard it.

[h90]

h90 thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I think we can agree on 50% and could debate a long time on other points and still end up just agreeing the entire system is messed up. There are of accusations of corruption and abuse on all sides.

Thailands politics the last few years, could be studied in a university for a semester as the study of - how not to obtain democracy.

Back in 2006 before the Coup I was against Thaksin, the corruption charges and human rights abuses were to much. My wife being from Chiang Mai area was and still is a fan of Thaksin. Although I dont support Thaksin I did not support a coup either.

The coup to me was the country giving up, and moving backward. There were legal processes and a constitution that should have been followed. Military leaders had no right to take over and doing so put the suspicion on them. Many thai feel the government is still controlled by the military and others. The events this fall and winter are carry-over from the coup as the struggle for leadership continues.

You can add to this the vast amount of poor in the country that do not feel represented, and why would they? The country is controlled by its wealthy and elite and it serves them, every year the poor get smarter and more aware though..

I agree with that!

I was very disappointed with the Surayud government. If you take over the power (lets say with good intentions) than it would be the time to change everything to the better (or if you are evil than change to the worse), but just sitting there 1 year was not worth to do that.

Abhisit had a shadow government all the time, so I thought as soon as he take over in the first 2 weeks, he'll put the country upside down, exchanging all the corrupt people, who has done wrong will be sacked. For all the nonsense laws and regulations is the fix ready (from the shadow government) and will be done immediately. Unfortunately this didn't happen. Sure better than Samak and Somchai but it is the seed for the next Thaksin. And for sure, there you are very right, no matter if he does good for the poor or not they won't feel represented by him. I can't understand why there isn't at least some pugilistic blabla.....

[h90]

From the Nation: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...in-Nakhon-Si-Th

Red and yellow shirts nearly clash in Nakhon Si Thammarat

About 1,000 yellow shirts who are supporters of Privy Councillor President Gen Prem Tinsulanond surround 25 red shirts who criticised Prem of intervening in politics in Nakhon Si Thammarat's Muang district at about 6.30pm.

The red shirts set up a stage in the province and leaders took the stage to criticise Prem one by one. When the yellow shirts who were gathering before leaving for giving moral support for Prem in Bangkok learnt about the red shirts, they moved their group to surround the red shirts.

Both sides yelled at each other through megaphones. Police had to be deployed in the middle of both shirts to prevent them from fighting.

Finally, the red shirts dispersed with their leader, Surachai Darnwattananusorn, escaped to a nearby lawyer office. He reportedly had a pistrol but police managed to snatch it from him.

As of 9.20pm, Surachai, a former Communist Party of Thailand member, still hid inside the building.

end of quote....

[monkfish]

From the Nation: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...in-Nakhon-Si-Th

Red and yellow shirts nearly clash in Nakhon Si Thammarat

About 1,000 yellow shirts who are supporters of Privy Councillor President Gen Prem Tinsulanond surround 25 red shirts who criticised Prem of intervening in politics in Nakhon Si Thammarat's Muang district at about 6.30pm.

The red shirts set up a stage in the province and leaders took the stage to criticise Prem one by one. When the yellow shirts who were gathering before leaving for giving moral support for Prem in Bangkok learnt about the red shirts, they moved their group to surround the red shirts.

Both sides yelled at each other through megaphones. Police had to be deployed in the middle of both shirts to prevent them from fighting.

Finally, the red shirts dispersed with their leader, Surachai Darnwattananusorn, escaped to a nearby lawyer office. He reportedly had a pistrol but police managed to snatch it from him.

As of 9.20pm, Surachai, a former Communist Party of Thailand member, still hid inside the building.

end of quote....

Until now there has been no violence involving the reds.

I have no doubts insurgents will be in place tomorrow.

Edited April 6, 2009 by monkfish

[kurtgruen]

Coup-makers offer Thaksin bounty

By: (BangkokPost.com and TNA)

Published: 6/04/2009 at 08:44 PM Military officers and businessmen who backed the 2006 coup that unseated Thaksin Shinawatra have offered a bounty of one million baht (about $28,348) for his arrest and return to Thailand.

Target: Thaksin

Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya, meanwhile, launched an unusual appeal to three Mideast envoys to prevent Thaksin from using their countries to launch attacks on the government.

In a meeting held at Democrat Party headquarters rather than at the foreign ministry, Mr Kasit told envoys from Dubai, Bahrain and the United Arab Emirates that he felt "uncomfortable" that Thaksin was using their countries while "attacking Thailand".

He invited Thai Muslims to the meeting, according to the official Thai News Agency, but there were no further details.

Mr Kasit, who was an active participant in anti-Thaksin action since 2006, including seizing the Bangkok airports last year, told the foreign envoys that some countries had already complied with the Thai government's request to deny shelter to the fugitive ex-premier.

The anti-Thaksin group, headed by former military junta member Gen Somjate Boonthanom, charges that Thaksin has led anti-government protesters in slandering the royal institution several times, and wants him back to serve his jail sentence.

Thaksin has tried to keep his whereabouts secret, leading to rampant rumours in Bangkok. Current guesses claim he is in Dubai or Cambodia.

Gen Somjate, who was the head of the Council for National Security's (CNS) secretary-general's office during the junta's rule, urged the country to join hands in solving political unrest, but charged that Mr. Thaksin is the root cause of the problem.

Gen Somjate said the bounty has been put up by the group of unidentified business leaders. It will be paid to anyone who can bring Thaksin to Thailand to face his two-year prison sentence on corruption charges.

Political turmoil could end if Thaksin is brought back to face justice and further prosecution, he claimed.

He also distributed what he called the "first statement" charging that Thaksin and his red-shirted supporters from the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) had “slandered the royal institution both openly and secretly” since he was forced from power two and a half years ago.

Meanwhile, a lawyer acting on behalf of Thaksin filed a defamation complaint with police against Privy Councillor Gen Pichitr Kullavanijaya over Gen Pichit's media interview last week, when he claimed that Thaksin did not respect the royal institution, wanted to disband the institution and that he had also deposited a large sum of money in the Cayman Islands, known as a haven for money launderers.

After his meeting with the foreign envoys, Mr Kasit said the Ministry of Foreign Affairs had met with Council of State officials five months ago regarding revoking Thaksin's passport, and the ministry is still awaiting its reply.

He said he would discuss the matter with Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva so that the issue could be considered at a cabinet meeting and a joint agreement could be made.

$28,348. Sounds a little too cheap. I wouldn't turn my dog in for that amount :-(

Edited April 6, 2009 by kurtgruen

[eldar1]

h90 thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I think we can agree on 50% and could debate a long time on other points and still end up just agreeing the entire system is messed up. There are of accusations of corruption and abuse on all sides.

Thailands politics the last few years, could be studied in a university for a semester as the study of - how not to obtain democracy.

Back in 2006 before the Coup I was against Thaksin, the corruption charges and human rights abuses were to much. My wife being from Chiang Mai area was and still is a fan of Thaksin. Although I dont support Thaksin I did not support a coup either.

The coup to me was the country giving up, and moving backward. There were legal processes and a constitution that should have been followed. Military leaders had no right to take over and doing so put the suspicion on them. Many thai feel the government is still controlled by the military and others. The events this fall and winter are carry-over from the coup as the struggle for leadership continues.

You can add to this the vast amount of poor in the country that do not feel represented, and why would they? The country is controlled by its wealthy and elite and it serves them, every year the poor get smarter and more aware though..

This is pretty much how i feel too.

I did not like thaksin firstly because of his extreme arrogance and narcissm and then later i started to dislike him more for his short-term policies that were only designed to crop up his popularity at the time. His extra-judicial killings and extreme corruption with the shin deal really made me loathe him, but a coup was never the answer. Not that the coup helped much in keeping him out of power though, it's only since the current goverment that we have had a non-thaksin goverment.

I don't feel he is the right man to take thailand forward, his brand of politics is bad for such a young and immature democracy as we have here in thailand. i don't know if the dems are much better, since they have in their mindless persuit of thaksin pretty much become the very thing that they were opposed. Thai politics is complex and fast changing, that can be entertaining at times, but i'm a firm believer in that politics should be as boring as humanly possible.

[kenai]

At 4000 a head you would have most the PAD changing shirts and your friend is right that crowd would be in the millions all right!

Well ive seen the 2-500 thrown out there. My wife was at the Bangkok rally a week ago. She laughed when I told her about the 2-500. She told me if there was anyone getting paid at the rally she would have heard all about it. I

I wouldnt be surprised if there was money exchanged to pay for lodging, gas or food etc. there has been an on-going request for donations im sure the money is being spent. If they are able to help with travel cost then I say great.

To think that people are protesting to get paid is ignorance to what there cause is. It shows a complete lack of understanding of the other-side. And it shows your buying into propaganda.

I was at a rally with my wife and these were not people there to make money. They were intense about their cause and well informed on it as well.

If my wife doesnt know about payouts and she supports the reds, its interesting how the other side would know all about it.

[kurtgruen]

PM: Govt will prevent civil war

By: BangkokPost.com

Published: 6/04/2009 at 10:00 PM Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, speaking in a national address on Monday night, assured the people that the government would prevent a civil war or public unrest during the red-shirt planned mass rally on Wednesday.

“The government must maintain peace in the country and will not tolerate public unrest in the country,”

Mr Abhisit vowed that the government will use soft measures against the protesters, who have the right to rally peacefully, but will not allow any protests that would have an impact on the daily life of the people.

“I’m confident that the government can maintain the situation in order,” he said. “And emergency decree is not needed.”

The prime minister, who joined a security meeting with senior officials earlier the day, said authorities are 100 per cent ready to deal with the mass protest.

He then called on the general public to help the government in bringing the country through the national crisis.

Whow, the news seems to be coming in a little more quickly now, after a long lull ;-)

[h90]

From the Nation: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...in-Nakhon-Si-Th

Red and yellow shirts nearly clash in Nakhon Si Thammarat

About 1,000 yellow shirts who are supporters of Privy Councillor President Gen Prem Tinsulanond surround 25 red shirts who criticised Prem of intervening in politics in Nakhon Si Thammarat's Muang district at about 6.30pm.

The red shirts set up a stage in the province and leaders took the stage to criticise Prem one by one. When the yellow shirts who were gathering before leaving for giving moral support for Prem in Bangkok learnt about the red shirts, they moved their group to surround the red shirts.

Both sides yelled at each other through megaphones. Police had to be deployed in the middle of both shirts to prevent them from fighting.

Finally, the red shirts dispersed with their leader, Surachai Darnwattananusorn, escaped to a nearby lawyer office. He reportedly had a pistrol but police managed to snatch it from him.

As of 9.20pm, Surachai, a former Communist Party of Thailand member, still hid inside the building.

end of quote....

Until now there has been no violence involving the reds.

I have no doubts insurgents will be in place tomorrow.

Well there were several cases of violence.....When the red beat one man in Chiang Mai to dead to bring one of the most ugly cases.

But knowing a lot Nakhon people I am surprised that here nothing happened. 10 dead people wouldn't have surprised me.

Thinking for the worst case.....

the yellows beating the communists, one policemen is shooting into the yellows, just because he panic. A shooting between police and yellows or army starts. Some wrong or misleading news in TV. Thaksin pouring oil into the fire, Some of the yellows as well etc etc etc

[Steve2UK]

<snip>

[1]

Also to add that beside him there is no one in jail for LM. Most probably this guy will be also pardoned. The author is trying to create a complete wrong picture of the situtation.

<snip>

[2]

The pro-Thaksin government elected after the coup lasted less than a year. Protesters, some of them armed with golf clubs, bombs and guns, overran first Government House and then both Bangkok's airports, costing the economy untold millions.

OK there was one gun seen, but not even one evidence of a bomb.

<snip>

[3]

The government is in a funk, panicking about how to block the transmissions. The army is said to be furious: Thaksin has broken the omerta and the government could not stop him. Commentators say he has gone too far and newspapers are openly demanding censorship to stop the revelations being heard.

government did not try to block it.

<snip

[1] Darunee Chanchernsilpakul. Boonyuen Prasertying.

[2] http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Ping-Pong-Bo...nt-t234393.html

[3] "Govt desperate to block Thaksin's calls

By: BangkokPost.com

Published: 1/04/2009 at 05:08 PM

The government is searching desperately for ways to block former premier Thaksin Shinawatra's phone-ins to his supporters, with Information and Communications Technology Minister Ranongrak Suwanchwee in talks with CAT Telecom about cutting off the signal."

Continues at:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/politics/1...ksin-appearance

[Edit to add note: Apologies for the borderline use of the Post article quote with other material in one post. Unfortunately, given the manner in which the original post has been used as a notepad for comment and counter-comment responses, I can see no alternative. In any event, I think it's very clear what I have written in response to the numbered points and what is a direct quote - with link - from the Post article.]

Darunee, is the lady which liked the Guillotine in the french revolution as example for Thailand? I Austria if she tells that she wants to kill me, I can sue her as well.....

I think the case is still pending, you can't pardon someone who is not convicted.

"Boonyuen Prasertying" don't know him.

But as HM the King told, the last 50 or 100 (can't recall) years everyone was pardoned! Please show some cases in which this didn't happen.

Add 2: It is well known that the POLICE came with the Ping Pong bombs, therefore you find the victims at the protesters not at the police men.

Add 3: This article does not show anything beside that "Mrs Ranongrak" is pretty silly.

Darunee is still in jail after months - denied bail several times - pending examination of prosecution witnesses between 23-25 June 09 and defence witnesses on 26-30 June 09. Never mind a pardon if she is found guilty - she is in jail now. It's Ms. "Boonyuen Prasertying" - sentenced to 6 years on 6 November 2008 (reduced from 12 years through pleading guilty) - and she is in jail now...... never mind a pardon that may or may not materialise as you hypothesise. These two facts don't match that well with your "beside him there is no one in jail for LM".

The police brought the ping-pong bombs to Government House? Before, during or after the PAD occupation?

The article says "The government is searching desperately for ways to block former premier Thaksin Shinawatra's phone-ins to his supporters" - which doesn't match that well with your "government did not try to block it". Few would argue that '"Mrs Ranongrak" is pretty silly' - however this was discussed at cabinet level......... hence the use of the word "government " in both the headline and the article. Even without that, she is - silly or not, like it/believe it or not - the "responsible" minister of the current government.

I guess known facts are not your strong point?

[kurtgruen]

At 4000 a head you would have most the PAD changing shirts and your friend is right that crowd would be in the millions all right!

Well ive seen the 2-500 thrown out there. My wife was at the Bangkok rally a week ago. She laughed when I told her about the 2-500. She told me if there was anyone getting paid at the rally she would have heard all about it. I

I wouldnt be surprised if there was money exchanged to pay for lodging, gas or food etc. there has been an on-going request for donations im sure the money is being spent. If they are able to help with travel cost then I say great.

To think that people are protesting to get paid is ignorance to what there cause is. It shows a complete lack of understanding of the other-side. And it shows your buying into propaganda.

I was at a rally with my wife and these were not people there to make money. They were intense about their cause and well informed on it as well.

If my wife doesnt know about payouts and she supports the reds, its interesting how the other side would know all about it.

I know dozens of people in Chiang Dao, who were paid to protest in Chiang Mai, to support Thaksin. I also know people from Chiang Mai, who got paid to protest. I also know a lady, who was paying out 200 Baht a head for Thaksin, during both the TRT election and PPP election, in Chiang Mai, to people who voted for Thaskin. So nobody can tell me that Thaksin doesn't pay and hasn't paid protesters in the past.

I believe you, when you say, that you haven't heard of it, kenai. Stick around and you will see it for yourself one day. Maybe get a little more fluent in Thai, too and you will overhear some people talking about it. It's no secret to the Thais (at least up here in the North). Red supporters aren't shy to talk about receiving money for protesting, if they around somebody they trust. Or even, if they don't trust, they won't think that a foreigner will understand them anyways and usually talk freely, unless they know you speak and understand fluent Thai (or Chiang Mai language)

(Sorry, I am making an assumption, by thinking that you must not be able to understand Thai very well, otherwise, you would probably have heard people talk about the bribes in the past. Please don't take it personal)

[monkfish]

AFAIK, ringleaders get large amounts who are then supposed to split it up, using it to bring people to the rally - hence the lower 200-500 baht denominations. This may explain the 4k figure you've heard, kurtgruen.

Or Thaksin has gone completely mental and really is shelling out 4k per person in a last ditch attempt (yeah right) to bring the masses.

I'll attempt to clarify it, Insight. Sometimes hard to do though, because my friend is aware that I sometimes post on here and I think he is worried that what he says might fall on the wrong ears and backfire on him. I have a couple of REDS in my family, too and also in the Club, I'll ask them, next time I see them. So far, none of the Reds in my family have gone to Bangkok yet. I would think that if somebody offered them 4000 Baht, they would be on the next truck, because that would be a fortune to them.

So who knows, my friend might have heard it wrong, or maybe, like you said, he might have been talking about one of the ring leaders. Anyways, I think he is an honest man and so am I. I reported it as I heard it.

I know several people going tomorrow and they will get nothing.

There are buses, food, water but no hard cash just for turning up.

[kurtgruen]

AFAIK, ringleaders get large amounts who are then supposed to split it up, using it to bring people to the rally - hence the lower 200-500 baht denominations. This may explain the 4k figure you've heard, kurtgruen.

Or Thaksin has gone completely mental and really is shelling out 4k per person in a last ditch attempt (yeah right) to bring the masses.

I'll attempt to clarify it, Insight. Sometimes hard to do though, because my friend is aware that I sometimes post on here and I think he is worried that what he says might fall on the wrong ears and backfire on him. I have a couple of REDS in my family, too and also in the Club, I'll ask them, next time I see them. So far, none of the Reds in my family have gone to Bangkok yet. I would think that if somebody offered them 4000 Baht, they would be on the next truck, because that would be a fortune to them.

So who knows, my friend might have heard it wrong, or maybe, like you said, he might have been talking about one of the ring leaders. Anyways, I think he is an honest man and so am I. I reported it as I heard it.

I know several people going tomorrow and they will get nothing.

There are buses, food, water but no hard cash just for turning up.

You might want to check into this a little deeper, Monkfish, so I am sure, there are some, who will go, just because they love Thaksin, I don't believe they make up the majority of protesters. If they all loved Thaksin, Chiang Mai would have been full of red shirts today. There were hardly any, considering the demonstrations are only two days away, same goes for the past few days, aside from a poorly attended rally at the airport (about 500).

Of course, I cannot prove my allegations of Thakin paying people to demonstrate for him, although, I think, that if push came to shove and I were charged with slander, the people I know, who got paid, would come out and speak the truth. There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever, that a large amount of the Red shirt crowd is getting paid to be there. (and I'm not just talking about food, transportation and water. I'm talking about CASH)

Anyways, we could debate this point forever. I'm sure that most peoples minds are made up either way, until new evidence might come out, to change it.

[kurtgruen]

PM warns of 'decisive actions' against riot

By The Nation

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva insisted on Monday night that his government would not tolerate any attempt to incite riot or fighting between rival political groups. He said in a national address that the government would "take decisive actions" in case of riot or fighting.

"If the protest affects the political system and the country's revered institutions, this government will not tolerate it and will take decisive actions allowed by law," he said.

Abhisit was referring to a massive rally by the anti-government red-shirt protesters in Bangkok on Wednesday.

Ousted ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra over the past week addressed the red shirts gathering outside Government House. He heavily criticised certain privy councillors, particularly Privy Council president Prem Tinsulanonda, and accused them of political interference and masterminding the 2006 coup.

Thaksin said there could be a "revolution by the people" while other leaders of the protest warned of the possibility of a civil war.

Abhisit on Monday night assured the public of the authorities' "100 per cent" readiness in dealing with the rally scheduled for tomorrow. He also called on the public to help in the efforts to get past the ongoing political crisis.

He said that if the country could weather the crisis, it would emerge stronger politically and economically.

The prime minister's 15-minute address was broadcast on the state-run NBT after the 8 pm news programme.

Abhisit also said there was no need now for the government to declare a state of emergency to deal with the situation. He said that was to prevent possible criticism that the administration craved for special power.

He said the government would do its best in preventing violence and keeping law and order during the protest.