Ready To Tear The Country Apart

[Moothon]

I like Taksin. Bangkok really sucked before he launched the first sat. so Thai's could use mobile phones. It also sucked trying to get across town before he pushed through the sky train and subway. What a godsend those are for all of us. Yes, he's done alot for the people, and is just as/ no more corrupt that the rest of them, but at least he did some good things as well.

If there was a real election held today, he would win again. Period.

[ovenman]

It also sucked trying to get across town before he pushed through the sky train and subway. What a godsend those are for all of us.

Remind me again what Thaksin had to do with the Skytrain considering it was open prior to his coming to power (with the MRT subway being well under construction at that same time). The only thing I recall relative to Thaksin and the Skytrain is how he and his TRT cronies held up construction/funding of the Thonburi extension for years.

[edwardmoulton]

I'm sorry but whatever you think about Thaksin, could you ever support a person like Abhisit who is SO obviously pupeteered by others and supports an condones the behaviour of a retard like KASIT... His latest sound bites are:

Says Thaksin a 'demon' for bringing up donations

Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya yesterday lashed out at former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, calling him a "demon" and challenging him to a debate in any forum across the world.

Admitting the former PM had given him cash in the past, Kasit insisted he had not used any of it on himself; it had gone to local embassy staff or Thai people abroad.

The minister called a press conference yesterday at the Foreign Ministry after Thaksin launched a personal attack on Kasit during the phone-in on Monday night.

Thaksin accused Kasit of accepting money while he was Thai ambassador to several countries.

"The money was something like a donation to local staff. Why would Thaksin want to take money from a monk's alms bowl?" Kasit asked.

"Is Thaksin a human or a hungry ghost? I did not count how much he had given me, but I think it was a few hundreds of thousands of baht. If you want it back, I will give you Bt1 million right now," the foreign minister said.

"Some of the local embassy staff who took your money have died, so if you want the money back, please go and collect it in hel_l," Kasit said.

The foreign minister said he was once close to Thaksin and admired him because they shared a dream to turn Thailand into a developed country. Kasit was a former adviser to Thaksin but defected saying he could not tolerate Thaksin's corruption and conflicts of interest.

"I took to the streets to fight Thaksin but have never attacked him personally," he said. "If you hit me under the belt, I challenge you, Thaksin, for a face off anywhere.

"Don't use your lackeys, your street thugs to have a go at me," Kasit said, referring to the Democratic Alliance against Dictatorship rally which has criticised him occasionally.

The minister said if Thaksin did not want his Thai passport anymore, he would be happy to go personally and collect it from him.

However, Kasit said, he would not exercise his authority to terminate Thaksin's normal Thai passport. The former PM's diplomatic travel document was revoked shortly before Kasit took office three months ago.

"It is better if Thaksin returns his Thai citizenship, it would make this country clean," Kasit declared.

AND:

Hun Sen warns Thais to stay out

By: AFPPublished: 31/03/2009 at 09:22 PM Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen has warned Thailand that it will face resistance if its troops cross their disputed border again.

Hun Sen made the remarks Tuesday a week after Cambodian officials said about 100 Thai troops briefly entered contested territory near the ancient Preah Vihear temple where a deadly gun battle broke out last year.

"I tell you first, if you enter [Cambodian territory] again, we will fight,'' Hun Sen said at a ceremony to open a road named after him in the seaside resort of Sihanoukville.

"The troops at the border have already received the order. I am the leader of Cambodia who was elected by the will of the people, not by robbing power,'' he added, in an apparent reference to Thailand's current political instability.

Hun Sen also told his audience that Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva will visit Cambodia on April 18, but blasted Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya for allegedly insulting him.

"He insults me -- he has called me a gangster,'' he said of the foreign minister.

Has anyone ever seen such a handicap to the futire of a government? Of, I forgot.... He was in the PAD so he can do what he wants and rise to stardom!

[sriracha john]

There's two different news articles (one without any source listed) in the above post interspersed with a bunch of personal comments and opinions.

If you're going to post news, could you please follow Thaivisa's policy and do so properly as we are all expected to do or just don't bother at all.

Thank you.

Edited March 31, 2009 by sriracha john

[Jimjim]

Thaksin is an arrogant, egomaniac git.

[Plus]

As to "General Mood" they were an extremely unpopular government, crushing the poor under harsh economic measures while helping out the massive conglomerates.

I take it as full on history rewrite.

As a matter of principle Dems refused to pump public money to rescue private companies and forced banks to deal with their NPLs themselves.

It was Thaksin who established Asset Management fund and spent 600 billion baht to buy bad debts form massive conglomerates, not Democrats. It was ten times as much as village fund, but somehow Thaksinistas don't like to mention how they took care of the rich, only how they threw bones to the poor.

"Harsh" conditions were negotiated by Thanong Bidaya, Thaksin's personal banker. Dems simply enforced them, and pulled the country out of the crisis. Growth was back at 4% when they left the office, and 1.8% in Thaksin's first year.

TRT's win in 2000, while impressive, didn't change the landscape much - he simply took over where Chavalit left, consolidating Isan votes under one roof, Dems were never going to get them anyway.

Despite TRT being very attractive to middle classes, Dems managed to generally keep their urban base intact, and didn't bleed that much countrywinde even after some of their MPs defected. They've lost Chiang Mai, for example, when their MPs joined TRT.

And Chuan didn't have a nickname, you might just invented it yourself. He was accused of not doing much and passing the buck over to the bureaucrats. It was his "I don't have the relevant information" excuses that were subject of much ridicule. He was accused of being ineffective and undecisive, but not as a "painter" covering corruption.

And human rights accusation is just too lame to argue - one IIRC member said something. So what? In those days it was inconceivable to publicly glorify killing people without trials on a massive scale. It was inconceivable for Chuan to tell UN human rights commissioner to go investigate herself first.

You must be delibirately twisting the truth to compare Chuan's and Thaksin's human rights credentials. It's ok if you are off the "Truth Today" variety, though, these guys are expected to lie.

Are one of them?

[animatic]

It also sucked trying to get across town before he pushed through the sky train and subway. What a godsend those are for all of us.

Remind me again what Thaksin had to do with the Skytrain considering it was open prior to his coming to power (with the MRT subway being well under construction at that same time). The only thing I recall relative to Thaksin and the Skytrain is how he and his TRT cronies held up construction/funding of the Thonburi extension for years.

Ditto.

[animatic]

Anyone else here notice what appears to be a big Pro Thaksin PR push,

that not so coincidentally coincidences with the Red Shirt Rally

and Thaksin's daily speaches this week?

A definite uptick in what appears to be propaganda with VAT added.

Edited April 1, 2009 by animatic

[somluck]

For better or for worse Thaksin is still popular and has massive support, we will be able to see how much support exactly if there is an election now. As long as the ruling elite refuses to acknowledge this fact, Thailand will remain divided.

[Plus]

His supporters need to acknowldge the fact that Thaksin is ineligible to lead according to country's laws, and never will be. If they want the revolution, so be it, Thaksin is way past "elections", as elections must be conducted under the rule of law, reds need to acknowledge that, though Thaksin yesterday made it clear it needs time to sink in.

[trogers]

It also sucked trying to get across town before he pushed through the sky train and subway. What a godsend those are for all of us.

Remind me again what Thaksin had to do with the Skytrain considering it was open prior to his coming to power (with the MRT subway being well under construction at that same time). The only thing I recall relative to Thaksin and the Skytrain is how he and his TRT cronies held up construction/funding of the Thonburi extension for years.

Ditto.

Thaksin can be credited, and discredited for a mass transit line - the Airport Link. The great master had the afterthought to construct this line only when the airport is almost completed, and this line is still under construction. A show of his so-called great ability.

[Samuian]

Oh, and by asset concealment do you mean that one share given to him as a gift, for a cooperative that went bust ages ago? Wasn't it, per chance, the work of the NCCC team put in by Thaksin in revenge for 2000 indictment? The team that was booted out for corruption themselves (or giving themselves illegal payraises)?

If I recall correctly there happen to appear shares in his name, connected to the scandal ridden

"Suratthani-Cooperative-Ltd-CO-OP" located in Phun Pin.

Does anyone remember the shooting on April 10th. 2001 of Withayut Sangsopit,

the Chairman of this very Coop for disclosing "irregularities"?

Beside that he was a bsuinessman, he was a Journalist and a presenter of a program on Fourth Army Radio.

Link to Article:

very interesting piece of information!

Chuan insisted not knowing about this fact, being a shareholder in this very Cooperative!

Which was used in a non confidence debate against the democrat led coalition, targeting Chuan.

As well as the "true value" of his house was supposedly around 100.000 ThB higher than his financial statements declared!

How high was the value of the shares Mr.Thaksin "forgot" in his "honest mistake" to declare?

With what intention someone would try to whitewash the hands of this man soiled all the way up to his armpits and

try to justify this with a simple "he is a nice guy, never did anything wrong,

did a lot of good for the nation and has been framed by Royalists and his enemies in the army?

[Steve2UK]

Anyone else here notice what appears to be a big Pro Thaksin PR push,

Can't say I have. It would help if you gave some examples or, at least, some indication of what leads you to suggest that there is one.

[caf]

His supporters need to acknowldge the fact that Thaksin is ineligible to lead according to country's laws, and never will be. If they want the revolution, so be it, Thaksin is way past "elections", as elections must be conducted under the rule of law, reds need to acknowledge that, though Thaksin yesterday made it clear it needs time to sink in.

a very good post

but " never will be" ?? i thought the ban was not for life. if it is and you are right then can you give us the source?

"they" are not seeking a revolution, but a re-election.

would you agree that both the reds and the yellows need to observe the acknowledgement you are suggesting?

[samgrowth]

Oh, and by asset concealment do you mean that one share given to him as a gift, for a cooperative that went bust ages ago? Wasn't it, per chance, the work of the NCCC team put in by Thaksin in revenge for 2000 indictment? The team that was booted out for corruption themselves (or giving themselves illegal payraises)?

If I recall correctly there happen to appear shares in his name, connected to the scandal ridden

"Suratthani-Cooperative-Ltd-CO-OP" located in Phun Pin.

Does anyone remember the shooting on April 10th. 2001 of Withayut Sangsopit,

the Chairman of this very Coop for disclosing "irregularities"?

Beside that he was a bsuinessman, he was a Journalist and a presenter of a program on Fourth Army Radio.

Link to Article:

very interesting piece of information!

Chuan insisted not knowing about this fact, being a shareholder in this very Cooperative!

Which was used in a non confidence debate against the democrat led coalition, targeting Chuan.

As well as the "true value" of his house was supposedly around 100.000 ThB higher than his financial statements declared!

How high was the value of the shares Mr.Thaksin "forgot" in his "honest mistake" to declare?

With what intention someone would try to whitewash the hands of this man soiled all the way up to his armpits and

try to justify this with a simple "he is a nice guy, never did anything wrong,

did a lot of good for the nation and has been framed by Royalists and his enemies in the army?

What about Samak got kicked out of his PM post for moonlighting as a cook which he has been doing for years (before he become a PM). Is that such a BIG crime. Does he deserves that too? This was a laugh for the BBC, CNN, etc.

[Samuian]

Oh, and by asset concealment do you mean that one share given to him as a gift, for a cooperative that went bust ages ago? Wasn't it, per chance, the work of the NCCC team put in by Thaksin in revenge for 2000 indictment? The team that was booted out for corruption themselves (or giving themselves illegal payraises)?

If I recall correctly there happen to appear shares in his name, connected to the scandal ridden

"Suratthani-Cooperative-Ltd-CO-OP" located in Phun Pin.

Does anyone remember the shooting on April 10th. 2001 of Withayut Sangsopit,

the Chairman of this very Coop for disclosing "irregularities"?

Beside that he was a bsuinessman, he was a Journalist and a presenter of a program on Fourth Army Radio.

Link to Article:

very interesting piece of information!

Chuan insisted not knowing about this fact, being a shareholder in this very Cooperative!

Which was used in a non confidence debate against the democrat led coalition, targeting Chuan.

As well as the "true value" of his house was supposedly around 100.000 ThB higher than his financial statements declared!

How high was the value of the shares Mr.Thaksin "forgot" in his "honest mistake" to declare?

With what intention someone would try to whitewash the hands of this man soiled all the way up to his armpits and

try to justify this with a simple "he is a nice guy, never did anything wrong,

did a lot of good for the nation and has been framed by Royalists and his enemies in the army?

What about Samak got kicked out of his PM post for moonlighting as a cook which he has been doing for years (before he become a PM). Is that such a BIG crime. Does he deserves that too? This was a laugh for the BBC, CNN, etc.

if you don't want to get it, you never will!

it's very simple, has all been said, again and again!

[Plus]

but " never will be" ?? i thought the ban was not for life. if it is and you are right then can you give us the source?

"they" are not seeking a revolution, but a re-election.

would you agree that both the reds and the yellows need to observe the acknowledgement you are suggesting?

Ban is for five years, but criminal conviction is forever, not to mention a dozen other charges waiting in courts, and that's just the legality of it.

"They" are not seeking simply re-election. Complete amnesty for Thaksin and his banned TRT execs is what they want first and foremost.

PAD's goal was to uphold the rule of law in the country and they tried their best not to break it themselves.

Whatever people say about PAD being terrorists, there's a huge difference between civil disobedience campaign that incluides sitting in the govt house or the airport, and demands to overthrow country's juducial system.

[Samuian]

For better or for worse Thaksin is still popular and has massive support, we will be able to see how much support exactly if there is an election now. As long as the ruling elite refuses to acknowledge this fact, Thailand will remain divided.

I call this an MASSIVE PR stunt!

"In October 2002, journalists with the daily The Nation revealed that people close to the Prime Minister offered their newspaper an advertising contract of more than one million euros in exchange for more favourable coverage of government policies."

from:Visit Website

Okay, supposedly 30.000 gathered recently, but how "Massive" is this number compared to the "rest" of 70 Mill. Thai people?

[Plus]

Chuan insisted not knowing about this fact, being a shareholder in this very Cooperative!

What do you mean by shareholder? He became a shareholder only when he was given that share he probably never looked at again in his life. The value was 10,000 baht, I believe.

[MaiChai]

Taksins democracy is that only Taksin should be in power. Doesn't anyone remember how he behaved before he was toppled? Totally arrogant, not prepared to listen to anyone, and showing lack of respect for the monarchy. I can't believe anyone wants to go back to that? Just goes to show people have short memories. You should be weary of anyone who craves power so much (think of any dictator and you will understand). A reasonable man would accept his fall from grace and move on.

[Steve2UK]

And Chuan didn't have a nickname, you might just invented it yourself.

"Chuan the painter or just Mr. Clean?

The Nation (Thailand)

03-27-2000

I CHUCKLED at Chuan hating his name the painter. But I did not when

he claimed in The Nation that the people elected him. When was that?

In 1997 he took the helm of the Thai government by default. So that

makes him the storyteller. Not a painter."

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P1-25593759.html

"Traditional arts, says ex-Miss Thailand, must go with the times

Kanniga Buraphatanin

The Nation

Besides being a TV show hostess, Chalida Thaochalee, Miss Thailand in 1998, is a competent amateur artist in her own right.

To date she has produced more than 100 abstract and impressionist oil paintings.

Her favourite artists are Picasso, Gauguin, and Matisse.

In 1998, Chalida was named one of Thailand's two outstanding amateur artists by the community of Rattanakosin Island.

The other was former premier Chuan Leekpai, whose love of sketching during his spare time is well known around the country."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/read.php?newsid=78877

[hammered]

Taksins democracy is that only Taksin should be in power. Doesn't anyone remember how he behaved before he was toppled? Totally arrogant, not prepared to listen to anyone, and showing lack of respect for the monarchy. I can't believe anyone wants to go back to that? Just goes to show people have short memories. You should be weary of anyone who craves power so much (think of any dictator and you will understand). A reasonable man would accept his fall from grace and move on.

Thaksin certainly had ideas of democracy based more on Suharto and Lee than other more liberal democratically inclined thinkers. A new regime plutocracy was obviously his aim where he and his business partners both inside and outside the country would dominate the business and political arenas of the country for decades. Part of this was throwing a few bones at the poor who had previously never seen them.

However, his opponents need to take some blame for creating the conditions for this by failing to recognize the aspirations of the poor and also for failing to bring them on board even while to their creidt writing the liberal 1997 constitution. A big irony is that the 1997 constitution although backed by Thaksin amongst other polticians was written by some who actually became his biggest opponents.

While I am sure many have worries about the meglomaniacal tendencies of Thaksin, his brilliant marketing of policies that helped the poor for the first time combined with spreading his largesse around his allies means he still to this day commands a level of popularity big enough to influence events in Thailand. It may even be that the majority no longer support him but it doesnt matter. If the silent majority remain silent a minority is all that is needed and Thaksin certainly has a large minority of support and one that is seemingly spread across social strata.

I have never ever been a fan of Thaksin and believe he should be held accountable for his drug war excesses (more than other crimes). However, that will never happen. And a dislike for the guy doesnt mean we should not properly try and analyse his position within and effect upon a developing Thai society. Quite how much support he has and if it is enough to pull off what he wants is imho something we are actually going to see and the results may well not be very nice whatever the outcome.

[samgrowth]

Taksins democracy is that only Taksin should be in power. Doesn't anyone remember how he behaved before he was toppled? Totally arrogant, not prepared to listen to anyone, and showing lack of respect for the monarchy. I can't believe anyone wants to go back to that? Just goes to show people have short memories. You should be weary of anyone who craves power so much (think of any dictator and you will understand). A reasonable man would accept his fall from grace and move on.

Lack of respect for the monarchy is not a LM crime in Thailand. Please don't get confuse.

[Siripon]

What about Samak got kicked out of his PM post for moonlighting as a cook which he has been doing for years (before he become a PM). Is that such a BIG crime. Does he deserves that too? This was a laugh for the BBC, CNN, etc.

But after being stripped of the post Samak was eligble to run for PM again, as indeed he did a few days later.

But his own party didn't want him, opting for the more malleable Somchai, Thaksin's brother-in-law.

[Plus]

So Chuan was really a painter. Some other, more memorable nicknames were mentioned there, too.

Also it was a media custom to give nicknames to prominent politicians at the end of each year.

[plachon]

What about Samak got kicked out of his PM post for moonlighting as a cook which he has been doing for years (before he become a PM). Is that such a BIG crime. Does he deserves that too? This was a laugh for the BBC, CNN, etc.

But after being stripped of the post Samak was eligble to run for PM again, as indeed he did a few days later.

But his own party didn't want him, opting for the more malleable Somchai, Thaksin's brother-in-law.

You're not suggesting that his own party made an independent decision as free-thinking individuals as who was most suitable to be the PM are you?

Somchai was malleable alright. Like putty in the hands of his wife, mia noi, party apparatchik, masseur in the spa, and of course, last but not least mein Fuhrer in Dubai/HK.

If Chuan was "The Painter" then, Somchai should have been nicknamed "Morph".

[Steve2UK]

So Chuan was really a painter. Some other, more memorable nicknames were mentioned there, too.

Also it was a media custom to give nicknames to prominent politicians at the end of each year.

[wayfarer108]

I like Taksin. Bangkok really sucked before he launched the first sat. so Thai's could use mobile phones. It also sucked trying to get across town before he pushed through the sky train and subway. What a godsend those are for all of us. Yes, he's done alot for the people, and is just as/ no more corrupt that the rest of them, but at least he did some good things as well.

If there was a real election held today, he would win again. Period.

Uh-huh. Aside from being uninformed about the skytrain and subway, Abhisit's popularity rating now stands at 50.6%, compared to 23.6% for former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/1383...cks-credibility

http://opinion.inquirer.net/inquireropinio...e-the-ABAC-Poll

Edited April 1, 2009 by wayfarer108

[kenai]

Okay, supposedly 30.000 gathered recently, but how "Massive" is this number compared to the "rest" of 70 Mill. Thai people?

CNN reported 20,000 on thurs March 26 the crowd size seems to have maintained at least that amount. Seeing the coverage on Sun and Monday from the D channel it appeared as large or larger. So how many will have come and gone from the grounds in the last week? Far more then 30,000. If your living in the south or central the support may not seem very strong there. Living in Chiang Mai and visiting my wife's friends and family around there the red support is much stronger. I would say at 80% maybe more in our daily bubble.

If your in Bangkok ask some cab drivers whom they support. You can get an idea of where some of the north stands from them since most are from the north-east.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/1383...cks-credibility

http://opinion.inquirer.net/inquireropinio...e-the-ABAC-Poll

The first survey was conducted in 18 provinces the second was through 2,128 people (didnt say how many provinces).

Just want to point out it would be hard to get an accurate poll of the nation as a whole with these numbers. I would put as much faith into it representing the country as I would my taxi driver poll.

Edited April 1, 2009 by kenai

[sriracha john]

CNN reported 20,000 on thurs March 26 the crowd size seems to have maintained at least that amount.

or 10% of that anyway, according to AFP today...

BANGKOK: Thailand's government said Wednesday it was ready to hold talks with former premier Thaksin Shinawatra in a bid to end a week-long blockade of the current prime minister's office.

The offer came as around 2,000 red-clad Thaksin loyalists who have camped outside Government House in Bangkok for the past seven days vowed to hold a further mass rally in Bangkok next week.

Edited April 1, 2009 by sriracha john