Ready To Tear The Country Apart

[animatic]

That picture of Somchai and Bush comes to mind.

The mouse that squeeked and the big rat.

My first thought was Bush was trying not to laugh out loud.

Or maybe just indigestion.

On the world stage Mark fits, in and says the right things.

He gets the right photo ops and is taken seriously.

As befits a real national leader and ASEAN leader.

Everything else negative being said about him here

is local blather for local consumption and effectively irrelevant to the big picture.

[Journalist]

The people behind the Reds don't give a monkey's about the poor - save as a component of their will to power.

I definitely agree with you there.

And the Yellows don't give a monkey's about one-man-one-vote Democracy.

So neither side gets my endorsement. If there is a lesser of the two evils, thats about all one can look to.

[Plus]

Yellows are against "democracy" where politicians are unaccountable to the public but work for money vested interests instead.

If that flawed system takes advantage of OMOV principle, something needs to be changed.

Or, put it another way - OMOV fails to deliver the government of the people, by the people, and for the people, and it's this kind of government that is the goal, not OMOV itself.

[Pierrot]

People get the government they deserve...

Actually, that’s what democracy is about, people get the government they deserve …

[somluck]

Even though there is no universally accepted definition of 'democracy', there are two principles that any definition of democracy includes. The first principle is that all members of the society (citizens) have equal access to power and the second that all members (citizens) enjoy universally recognized freedoms and liberties -from wiki

[wackysleet]

PAD is a front for the military. Full Stop. The reds have popularity ebcause many people do not like military dictatorship and profiteering. Full Stop. Reds are imperfect, but right now, there is no one around to stop the military from continuing its dictatorship, even if done through a smooth talking suit.

I think the obvious solution to Thailands problems would be a government run by all the expert ex pats on the site but if any of you actually listened to yourselves you would hear just how intolerant you all are of each others opinion of how the country should be run and everyone should remember that there are frequently different routes to the same destination and that politics and government is often a compromise.

But one thing seems to have escaped peoples attention and that is the general kept a very quiet profile whilst the yellow shirts were doing their bit, saying " It will sort itself out, we will not get involved" the army involved itself in 2006 soon enough, could it be that the hoped for civil unrest never really materialised so the army top brass could not really intervene this time.

[h90]

The people behind the Reds don't give a monkey's about the poor - save as a component of their will to power.

I definitely agree with you there.

And the Yellows don't give a monkey's about one-man-one-vote Democracy.

So neither side gets my endorsement. If there is a lesser of the two evils, thats about all one can look to.

The ideas of the yellows don't need to be undemocratic. It just depends on the details.

But electing within many different bodies is in my opinion just making everything more difficult and I don't see why these MPs shouldn't be the same corrupt.

[Duangta]

‘Serves you right’, says Sondhi to Surayud after Thaksin’s video link

02 April 2009

News

On March 30, PAD leader Sondhi Limthongkul spoke to reporters about Thaksin's address to the red-shirted crowd attacking the 2006 coup masterminds, including Privy Councilor Gen Surayud Chulanond and Surayud's subsequent response. ‘I have no comment. No matter what Mr Surayud has to say, I have had no comment [about him] since he was Prime Minister.'

Asked how the big PAD meeting on 24 May would go, Sondhi said, ‘We have no problem at all. We just stay put. We think that this is a problem between the red shirts and Khun Thaksin and [Gen] Anupong Paojinda, and Khun Suthep Thaugsuban and Khun Newin Chidchob. They have problems to solve among themselves. If you've said you could solve the country's problems, so you just do it.

‘I don't see it as a disgrace; if they planned the coup, just say yes I did plan it, because I wanted to rescue the country. But do you know why he didn't dare say that? Because after the coup, he had no idea what to do. How dumb he was. He made everything worse. So he was awkward and tongue-tied.

‘I don't see any disgrace, if they seized power and revolutionized democracy, but they didn't revolutionize democracy. They just took power from Thaksin's cronies into their own hands. That's why they're speechless. It serves them right,' said Sondhi.

Asked if such a response showed that Thaksin's allegation was true, Sondhi said, ‘I don't know. It serves them right. Please publish, "I think you deserve it."

‘They staged the coup to take power into the hands of the junta and then Surayud. No changes were made. Now you get exposed, and you panic. I say I'm really content with that,' said Sondhi.

See video clip (in Thai): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h-nrmOFGp8

Source: Prachatai

[animatic]

Even though there is no universally accepted definition of 'democracy', there are two principles that any definition of democracy includes. The first principle is that all members of the society (citizens) have equal access to power and the second that all members (citizens) enjoy universally recognized freedoms and liberties -from wiki

Which goes to prove that 'Democracy" in it's pure, philosophical form,

does not exist anywhere on earth besides lecture halls and text books.

It is an ideal that we may strive for

and damned if any culture has actually reached it.

We make the best of what we CAN do.

Edited April 3, 2009 by animatic

[somluck]

Latest salvo by Sondhi seems to signal all is not well in the anti Thaksin camp.....what comes around goes around

[hammered]

It seems all the talk now is of mediators, interrmediaries and deals. Not a bad thing to hear unless one loves violence, but we will see. Thaksin's speech tonight will send a signal no doubt. A deal even a somewhat shoddy one is better than loads of violence and a deal also allows everyone to spin it.

Only a few hours to wait anyway tosee Thaksin's approach.

[animatic]

Latest salvo by Sondhi seems to signal all is not well in the anti Thaksin camp.....what comes around goes around

As I have said before,

this was never the unified entity the Red supporters try to portray,

but a grouping of several entities with a few over-lapping agreements.

One being a total end to Thaksin controling the country.

On many other matters they never were seeing eye to eye ever.

[cmsally]

‘Serves you right’, says Sondhi to Surayud after Thaksin’s video link

02 April 2009

News

On March 30, PAD leader Sondhi Limthongkul spoke to reporters about Thaksin's address to the red-shirted crowd attacking the 2006 coup masterminds, including Privy Councilor Gen Surayud Chulanond and Surayud's subsequent response. ‘I have no comment. No matter what Mr Surayud has to say, I have had no comment [about him] since he was Prime Minister.'

Asked how the big PAD meeting on 24 May would go, Sondhi said, ‘We have no problem at all. We just stay put. We think that this is a problem between the red shirts and Khun Thaksin and [Gen] Anupong Paojinda, and Khun Suthep Thaugsuban and Khun Newin Chidchob. They have problems to solve among themselves. If you've said you could solve the country's problems, so you just do it.

‘I don't see it as a disgrace; if they planned the coup, just say yes I did plan it, because I wanted to rescue the country. But do you know why he didn't dare say that? Because after the coup, he had no idea what to do. How dumb he was. He made everything worse. So he was awkward and tongue-tied.

‘I don't see any disgrace, if they seized power and revolutionized democracy, but they didn't revolutionize democracy. They just took power from Thaksin's cronies into their own hands. That's why they're speechless. It serves them right,' said Sondhi.

Asked if such a response showed that Thaksin's allegation was true, Sondhi said, ‘I don't know. It serves them right. Please publish, "I think you deserve it."

‘They staged the coup to take power into the hands of the junta and then Surayud. No changes were made. Now you get exposed, and you panic. I say I'm really content with that,' said Sondhi.

See video clip (in Thai): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h-nrmOFGp8

Source: Prachatai

That , quite frankly is hysterical. Talk about a leopard changing its spots. The PAD hasn't got what it was promised?

Suthep and Anupong went behind their backs to Thaksin?

Definitely not looking rosy in the yellow camp, and the one thing about Thailand is, everyone loves to be backing a winner.

[hammered]

Latest salvo by Sondhi seems to signal all is not well in the anti Thaksin camp.....what comes around goes around

Sondhi always represented or at least tried to represent a different constituency than the bureacracy with different aims. Look at the game class 7 are now playing too. Chamlong was in seven as was Manoonkrit iirc.

[hammered]

‘Serves you right’, says Sondhi to Surayud after Thaksin’s video link

02 April 2009

News

On March 30, PAD leader Sondhi Limthongkul spoke to reporters about Thaksin's address to the red-shirted crowd attacking the 2006 coup masterminds, including Privy Councilor Gen Surayud Chulanond and Surayud's subsequent response. ‘I have no comment. No matter what Mr Surayud has to say, I have had no comment [about him] since he was Prime Minister.'

Asked how the big PAD meeting on 24 May would go, Sondhi said, ‘We have no problem at all. We just stay put. We think that this is a problem between the red shirts and Khun Thaksin and [Gen] Anupong Paojinda, and Khun Suthep Thaugsuban and Khun Newin Chidchob. They have problems to solve among themselves. If you've said you could solve the country's problems, so you just do it.

‘I don't see it as a disgrace; if they planned the coup, just say yes I did plan it, because I wanted to rescue the country. But do you know why he didn't dare say that? Because after the coup, he had no idea what to do. How dumb he was. He made everything worse. So he was awkward and tongue-tied.

‘I don't see any disgrace, if they seized power and revolutionized democracy, but they didn't revolutionize democracy. They just took power from Thaksin's cronies into their own hands. That's why they're speechless. It serves them right,' said Sondhi.

Asked if such a response showed that Thaksin's allegation was true, Sondhi said, ‘I don't know. It serves them right. Please publish, "I think you deserve it."

‘They staged the coup to take power into the hands of the junta and then Surayud. No changes were made. Now you get exposed, and you panic. I say I'm really content with that,' said Sondhi.

See video clip (in Thai): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h-nrmOFGp8

Source: Prachatai

That , quite frankly is hysterical. Talk about a leopard changing its spots. The PAD hasn't got what it was promised?

Suthep and Anupong went behind their backs to Thaksin?

Definitely not looking rosy in the yellow camp, and the one thing about Thailand is, everyone loves to be backing a winner.

When it all comes down to it in democratic terms of support. Only the Dems and Thaksin's party have it in large amounts. A dem-Thaksin deal was always a possibility in simple terms as they in democratic terms are the only players with real support, which means they both have veto. PPP tried to go it alone so did Dems neither had the power, so......

However, there are other players who want to derail any potential deal no doubt. But in democratic terms that will be hard to do other than delay unless the Dems can be pulled away but this time they may see a deal as better for them in the long run than more silly violent games. People will happily swing behind any deal that ends the madness and street rallies. The trick is just pulluing it off. Loads of ironies about Thaksin and Abhisit if this actually happens,

[somluck]

Latest salvo by Sondhi seems to signal all is not well in the anti Thaksin camp.....what comes around goes around

Sondhi always represented or at least tried to represent a different constituency than the bureacracy with different aims. Look at the game class 7 are now playing too. Chamlong was in seven as was Manoonkrit iirc.

What is Chamlong fighting for? He is a supporter of the Santi Asoke sect, he is celibate, a vegetarian, and claims to have no worldly possessions.

[hammered]

Latest salvo by Sondhi seems to signal all is not well in the anti Thaksin camp.....what comes around goes around

Sondhi always represented or at least tried to represent a different constituency than the bureacracy with different aims. Look at the game class 7 are now playing too. Chamlong was in seven as was Manoonkrit iirc.

What is Chamlong fighting for? He is a supporter of the Santi Asoke sect, he is celibate, a vegetarian, and claims to have no worldly possessions.

The reds claim and the yellows believe that the Dem TPI bribe thingy was given to the red side by class seven. Quite what their aim was is open to interpretation if true.

Chamlong has a vision of how things should be and he tries to make it win out in short.

[jbowman1993]

Certainly was nice to see Abhisit up there with Obama, Brown, etc... Looked great and projected an image of the leader that Thailand needs. Would you rather have had Charlerm, Somchai, Samak, Surayud, Thaksin, or any of the the parade of favorites up there?

Samak and Obama - Oh the Humanity....

Charlerm and Gordon Brown - Sounds good doesn't it?

Who would you rather see representing the country. Do you really want Charlerm in charge? I have never heard any TV red shirt answer that question. They avoid, sidestep, dance around, mumble, everything accept answer that question. Is Charlerm the man Thailand needs as a leader? Because that is the only other choice at the moment.

Answer that question.

Not a single TV red shirt willing to stand up and proclaim the virtues and good qualities of Charlerm? Not one? Because if the red shirts, win, that is exactly who will be in charge. Its a simple choice, you like the reds, then you are for Charlerm. If you don't like him, how can you possibly advocate the reds cause? He will be the end result of their success.

I would say the fact that no one can stomach Charlerm as PM means that the reds and Thaksin will ultimately fail. I think they know that too, which is why they sound desperate.

[TAWP]

Shooting on Vibhavadi - it was an ambush on PAD convoy, the attackers got more than they expected - the guards were shooting back! Overreaction, true, but still, a reaction to an attack.

it was an ambush after the PAD had attacked the taxi driver radio station, also to shoot back you need to have been shot at first, the only shots fired were by PAD thugs, also the bike taxi was assaulted and had a knife held to his throat. so by your reasoning it is ok to seek revenge for an ambush so the red shirts were justified after the taxi radio station was attacked.

That is a lie or clear distortion of facts as the guards was reaction to the attack on the vans and _then_ initiated violence at the taxi radio station.

But your description of the chain of events is incorrect. (I passed the location during the aftermath, a lot of cops was in the area at that time.)

[TAWP]

People get the government they deserve...

Actually, that’s what democracy is about, people get the government they deserve …

Sure, that is the idea. And to the negative aspect of it, I would say that they have had just that here...

But some of us still like it to improve. Some has to lead to improve the rest.

[Steve2UK]

Desperate times call for desperate measures for the square-headed one...

It takes two to tango. Unlikely Thaksin would be making these noises if he didn't have reason to think (rightly or wrongly) that the same noises being made by Suthep show potential for a compromise solution (and vice-versa). Welcome to Thai politics - a tad more complex than the one-dimensional slant that you seem to have on it.

[sriracha john]

Desperate times call for desperate measures for the square-headed one...

It takes two to tango. Unlikely Thaksin would be making these noises if he didn't have reason to think (rightly or wrongly) that the same noises being made by Suthep show potential for a compromise solution (and vice-versa). Welcome to Thai politics - a tad more complex than the one-dimensional slant that you seem to have on it.

Suthep made similar gestures quite awhile ago... the CHANGE is that Thaksin is changing his adamant refusal to negotiate.

btw, don't confuse having a personal opinion with failing to understand a complex situation.

Edited April 3, 2009 by sriracha john

[WAERTH]

Desperate times call for desperate measures for the square-headed one...

It takes two to tango. Unlikely Thaksin would be making these noises if he didn't have reason to think (rightly or wrongly) that the same noises being made by Suthep show potential for a compromise solution (and vice-versa). Welcome to Thai politics - a tad more complex than the one-dimensional slant that you seem to have on it.

Suthep made similar gestures quite awhile ago... the CHANGE is that Thaksin is changing his adamant refusal to negotiate.

btw, don't confuse having a personal opinion with failing to understand a complex situation.

Well Toxin refuses all talks ... he is banking on violence obviously:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/politics/1...cts-talks-offer

w

[sriracha john]

I guess we know now where Thaksin stands now... it's back to his refusals and

Lets Get Ready To Rumble

even more....

btw... the UDD Leaders have said there'll be a million in Bangkok on the 8th....

[sriracha john]

Thaksin rejects talks offer

Fugitive former Thai premier Thaksin Shinawatra Friday dismissed an offer by the government to hold talks, saying it was "nonsense'' and calling for an escalation of nine-day old protests.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said earlier that he was ready to negotiate with Thaksin, who was toppled in a coup in 2006, in a bid to end a blockade of the seat of government in Bangkok by Thaksin's supporters.

But Thaksin hit back by urging his loyalists to come from all over the country to a mass rally on April 8, which the so-called "Red Shirts'' say they expect hundreds of thousands of people to attend.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/politics/1...cts-talks-offer

[Steve2UK]

btw, don't confuse having a personal opinion with failing to understand a complex situation.

I always try not to.

[sriracha john]

Thaksin rejected the government’s offer of talks in the latest video link from an undisclosed location to his supporters rallying at Government House after a two-day hiatus.

“I will not negotiate anything because it’s the nation’s business, not mine. I have no authoriy to negotiate. But I will join forces with all my brothers in fighting for true democracy. We are pushing for a major and historic change.” said the ousted premier.

Thaksin also urged his supporters, including police and soldiers, to join the National United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD)’s mass rally in Bangkok on April 8, and the ongoing street protests in the capital and at City Halls nationwide, to show their spirit and power and push for a historic change.

The ousted premier said he expected the number of demonstrators would outnumber that of the October 14, 1973 Uprising and 1992’s Bloody May.

Thaksin repeated his call for a parliamentary dissolution and fresh elections by reinstating the 1997 Constitution to end the political conflict.

April 3 (TNA)

[Sireenat]

According to Manager online, Thaksin didn’t fly to a European country like MP Boonyod said, instead he flew from Dubai to Cambodia. So Thaksin could be in Cambodia right now. This could explain why he didn’t do his usual video link for 2 days. Thaksin has offered Hunsen $20 millions to purchase military arms and to help him smuggle into Thailand. Thaksin wants to create chaos and violence in this country in order to force the government to respond. Definitely he wants them to release his frozen assets also.

This is interesting story because coincidently Thailand and Cambodia are now engaging in the gunfire exchange. Well, Thaksin and Hunsen could use this opportunity to smuggle the weapons across Thai border somewhere. For those redshirt supporters, I follow Thai politics long enough to know that Thaksin has no problem to do such things. He won’t care that hundreds of his redshirt supporters could be dead from the chaos he’s trying to create as long as it could benefit him.

Ironically this is just like the day before the coup that ousted him, Thaksin also planned to bring in hundreds of his rural thugs to confront PAD. He wanted the bloodshed on the streets and wouldn’t care how many people would die. If he succeeded, the chaos would allow him to enforce the martial law so he could ban PAD protest, and also to remove Gen. Sondhi from the top post. However Sondhi moved faster than him and throw out his government instead.

[DaleBlue]

According to Manager online, Thaksin didn't fly to a European country like MP Boonyod said, instead he flew from Dubai to Cambodia. So Thaksin could be in Cambodia right now. This could explain why he didn't do his usual video link for 2 days. Thaksin has offered Hunsen $20 millions to purchase military arms and to help him smuggle into Thailand. Thaksin wants to create chaos and violence in this country in order to force the government to respond. Definitely he wants them to release his frozen assets also.

This is interesting story because coincidently Thailand and Cambodia are now engaging in the gunfire exchange. Well, Thaksin and Hunsen could use this opportunity to smuggle the weapons across Thai border somewhere. For those redshirt supporters, I follow Thai politics long enough to know that Thaksin has no problem to do such things. He won't care that hundreds of his redshirt supporters could be dead from the chaos he's trying to create as long as it could benefit him.

Ironically this is just like the day before the coup that ousted him, Thaksin also planned to bring in hundreds of his rural thugs to confront PAD. He wanted the bloodshed on the streets and wouldn't care how many people would die. If he succeeded, the chaos would allow him to enforce the martial law so he could ban PAD protest, and also to remove Gen. Sondhi from the top post. However Sondhi moved faster than him and throw out his government instead.

If you believe DStaion, Koo, ASTV, Manager.com, you believe anything.

Look, a pig just flew over the moon.

If you have lots of time and nothing to read, try The Sun too. Avoide the tasteless page 3 however.

[Sireenat]

If you believe DStaion, Koo, ASTV, Manager.com, you believe anything.

Look, a pig just flew over the moon.

If you have lots of time and nothing to read, try The Sun too. Avoide the tasteless page 3 however.

I know from several sources other than Manager online that Thaksin actually planned to bring in armed thugs from the countryside to confront PAD protesters. Actually it was Newin's idea. That failed since he was thrown out from power instead by Gen Sondhi.

This time is no different. The redshirts have been challenging the government for weeks. They are trying to instigate the fight. They even tipped out the foreign media that Thai government could take actions against them at any time. The government knows about this, that's why they don't fall into the trap. Once the first gunfire breaks, you would see his thugs turn loose. Abhisit's government don't want violence, it's Thaksin who desparately wants violence or something to happen that could help him turn things around. This is his last bet.