Fao Of Any Singapore Expats

[technocracy]

Ok guys - I am currently mulling over an expat position based in Singapore - paying Expat money (read: just over US$10k per month). From your knowledge and experience is this a 'good amount' of money for living in Singers? I have a wife and 1 year old baby who'd be with me also.

I have work always on the offing here in Laos also but obviously when people start waving expat salaries under your nose you have to seriously consider it. In one mind I think well I'll just continue here in Laos with ok money and hopefully my business will grow OR I can jump at the money as these kind of roles don't come around often.

So in your opinions would it be worth making the move for the cash - even just for a few years?

So shoot - totally open opinions please . . . I just need so kind of reassurance one way or another whether it's worth it.

Edited April 4, 2009 by technocracy

[trogers]

That will depend on your job responsibility and your family's lifestyle.

If you are thrifty, you can keep expenditure below US$4k and save the balance, as your kid is at non-schooling age. Make sure your family has medical insurance.

Singapore has very strictly enforced rules and laws. Make sure your job responsibility do not ask you to break any.

[expatgaz]

Do you get extra for housing etc ?

EPG

[steve73]

Ditto - depends on lifestyle.

Eating out and booze is pricy, apart from the hawker stalls, and you can easily blow $200 per day just to live.

Rents are coming down a little, but still higher than say bangkok. A nice 2-br apatment will set you back US$3-5000/mon - or is that paid?

If you stay outside the central areas, and commit to 1-2 year lease you'll get something better/cheaper, but then you'll use taxis more (unless you bus it). Cooking/eating in will help, but most normal food stuffs (except expat items) are 3-4 times thai prices. Booze in farang type bars is US$7-10 /small bottle.

So live frugally and you'll save a perhaps 30-50% of that. Enjoy it as you really could and you'll need 2 or 3x as much.

Car hire is 5x thai prices, and don't even think about buying. but it is a good hub to travel around more of asia if you can manage - probably not with a one year old. thinking aout it, travelling locally (buses/mrt etc) would be a little tricky with child ans buggy etc.

Try to spend a few days here for 'interview' and see what you think.

good luck,

[trogers]

I think the main cost is accommodation. To save, you should look for a nice apartment along the mass transit line 10-12km from city centre. This would enable your wife to travel about without hassle. Rental rates should be about US$1200-2000.

If the apartment is near to some local shopping area with hawker centre or food court, that's a plus point. Western foodstuff is available at Cold Storage supermarket (their eq. of Villa supermarket here). I usually go to the one at Holland road, rather than at Centre Point (Orchard road) due to ease of getting a taxi.

Edited April 4, 2009 by trogers

[technocracy]

Cheers all so far - some good stuff.

Just to clarify - unfortunately the housing is not covered - if it was I think my reservations would be reduced. Although the work permit and visa will all be covered.

In terms of lifestyle we live 100% local lifestyle - I have no concerns over western food as long as my wife can get to a market with fresh produce she'll be able cook up Lao food as she does everyday. With a 1 year old you can probably imagine we aren't exactly party animals - so just a few beers a week is about all that covers it and eating out would be once or maybe twice a week.

I've been to Singapore quite a few times so I know the place reasonably well - but as with most visitors I didn't head out into any places out of the central areas.

From what I've heard about the huge expense of cars that is something I wasn't going to consider just pay a little more for an apartment near to good transport (MRT, Buses etc).

Edit: Oh yeah that note about medical insurance - I take it treatment is expensive? Since we are at moment thinking of having another baby so it'd probably be born in Singapore .....

Edited April 4, 2009 by technocracy

[trogers]

Cheers all so far - some good stuff.

Just to clarify - unfortunately the housing is not covered - if it was I think my reservations would be reduced. Although the work permit and visa will all be covered.

In terms of lifestyle we live 100% local lifestyle - I have no concerns over western food as long as my wife can get to a market with fresh produce she'll be able cook up Lao food as she does everyday. With a 1 year old you can probably imagine we aren't exactly party animals - so just a few beers a week is about all that covers it and eating out would be once or maybe twice a week.

I've been to Singapore quite a few times so I know the place reasonably well - but as with most visitors I didn't head out into any places out of the central areas.

From what I've heard about the huge expense of cars that is something I wasn't going to consider just pay a little more for an apartment near to good transport (MRT, Buses etc).

In this case, try contacting some housing agent online and see if they can source out a 2 bedroom HDB flat for rent at either Bona Vista or Clementi Central. Both these areas have a large fresh market. Bona Vista is 2 stations closer to the city but Clementi has more shops and a supermarket.

If you want a cheaper alternative, my sister has a 2-bedroom HDB flat for rent at Potong Pasir. It is only 200m from the MRT station and also has a fresh market and hawker food court 5 mins away. My sister bought the place but is married and living in East Hampton, NY. Thus, she can rent out her HDB flat whole. Some locals rent out their flat, but have to leave one bedroom locked to show they are not leasing out the whole flat.

Edited April 4, 2009 by trogers

[technocracy]

Great stuff I'll have a look around!

Much appreciated.

[Captain Chaos]

USD10k is roughly SGD 15k at current FX rates - that's still a good salary in Singapore and you can easy make things work on that amount (with one caveat, see below)

You can find an apartment for SGD2 - 3k per month - but yes you'll have to look a little bit away from the main 'expat' ghettos. The Chaos family pay in the high SGD2k's for a modern (like 3 years old) apartment in the Chinatown area. Mrs CC (from Isaan) likes the slightly more 'Bangkok feel' that Chinatown has compared to most of Singapore, but other areas are also viable, as others have suggested.

Going out to western style bars and restaurants is expensive - going to local style places is entirely feasible and much cheaper. I do a bit of both! Food needn't be all that expensive - and you can always visit "Golden Mile Complex" which is the Thai hangout / shopping centre / supermarket over on Beach Road - probably as close to 'Little Laos' as you'll find here but I could be wrong.

I'd say you can save around half of your salary - maybe only a third if you want to be out on the town a bit more. Remember that tax here is low - your effective rate is likely to be around 10%.

My one caveat is that you must get your company to provide health insurance. It is expensive here (not far off private western levels) and as a foreigner, you have no entitlements to free care. Education though is not a problem - MiniChaos is 8 and doing well in a local primary school, which costs me about SGD200 every term - there are lots of pricey international schools around instead if you prefer...

This is a good place for kids though. Leaving aside the general safe environment, there's lots of things to do. Zoo, Botanical Gardens, Sentosa Island, East Coast, fishing farms up in the north of the island, the 'Singapore Flyer', river tours blah blah blah. MiniChaos is enrolled in a very cosmopolitan junior rugby club where he trains at the weekends. There's also football, golf, etc etc etc in the near vicinity.

My other suggestion is that you fix your salary into Sing Dollars at the start of your employment and take out your FX risk. You'll be spending in SGD so it would make sense. Just get inflationary increases thereafter rather than having to worry about losing out when they recalculate the FX rate to USD. That's just my suggestion though - depends on your appetite for risk and what you thing the FX markets will do!

Bottom line - Singapore still has lots of opportunities once you've got your foot in the door (and visas / work permits / PR are all a relative doddle anyway) - so I'd go for it...

Hope this helps.

CC

[technocracy]

Great stuff - thanks to all. Definately given me food for thought!

Especially the health insurance thing - I think I'll be having a word with people about funding this and see what the lie of the land is next week.

[Pdaz]

I lived there for 10yrs on salaries between 3k and 20k Sing Dollars a Month.. Always had to arrange my own accomodation.. In the later years when I was making the better money my lifestyle hardly changed. Just meant I could buy quality clothes and travel more often.. If you don't want to live the 'expat' lifestyle Singapore is still very affordable. It has to be because the bulk of Singaporeans earn around 3000 S$ a Month. Yes they have HDB apartments and use the cheap public transport but they still eat out often and enjoy shopping and nightlife.. If you rent an apartment out from Orchard in one of the better HDB estates (no prob as you have a work permit) or even a private one if not in a 'trendy' area you will have no problem living on half (or less) of your salary. Buy fresh meat&veg in the local wet markets, eat local food in the hawker centers and family run resturants. Use the excellent MRT and taxi system and make Singaporean friends.. You can still go out and have a beer as many places have happy hours and drinking in 'local' bars away from the tourist centers is 'cheap'.. Singapore is only expensive if you wish to live like an American/Brit or Aussie does in his own country.. Live like a Singaporean and you can have just as much fun and great food for a fraction of the cost and really learn about the country and the people.. It's a great place to live once you get under the surface. Don't believe all the sterile, too many rules nonsense you hear.. If you don't want to break the law it will never bother you and your quality of life will be great cos the law keeps all the fookwits under control and the city clean and efficient..

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Ok guys - I am currently mulling over an expat position based in Singapore - paying Expat money (read: just over US$10k per month). From your knowledge and experience is this a 'good amount' of money for living in Singers? I have a wife and 1 year old baby who'd be with me also.

I have work always on the offing here in Laos also but obviously when people start waving expat salaries under your nose you have to seriously consider it. In one mind I think well I'll just continue here in Laos with ok money and hopefully my business will grow OR I can jump at the money as these kind of roles don't come around often.

So in your opinions would it be worth making the move for the cash - even just for a few years?

So shoot - totally open opinions please . . . I just need so kind of reassurance one way or another whether it's worth it.

Sure a lot of www sites for google for: singapore hdb apartments

Mac

[technocracy]

I lived there for 10yrs on salaries between 3k and 20k Sing Dollars a Month.. Always had to arrange my own accomodation.. In the later years when I was making the better money my lifestyle hardly changed. Just meant I could buy quality clothes and travel more often.. If you don't want to live the 'expat' lifestyle Singapore is still very affordable. It has to be because the bulk of Singaporeans earn around 3000 S$ a Month. Yes they have HDB apartments and use the cheap public transport but they still eat out often and enjoy shopping and nightlife.. If you rent an apartment out from Orchard in one of the better HDB estates (no prob as you have a work permit) or even a private one if not in a 'trendy' area you will have no problem living on half (or less) of your salary. Buy fresh meat&veg in the local wet markets, eat local food in the hawker centers and family run resturants. Use the excellent MRT and taxi system and make Singaporean friends.. You can still go out and have a beer as many places have happy hours and drinking in 'local' bars away from the tourist centers is 'cheap'.. Singapore is only expensive if you wish to live like an American/Brit or Aussie does in his own country.. Live like a Singaporean and you can have just as much fun and great food for a fraction of the cost and really learn about the country and the people.. It's a great place to live once you get under the surface. Don't believe all the sterile, too many rules nonsense you hear.. If you don't want to break the law it will never bother you and your quality of life will be great cos the law keeps all the fookwits under control and the city clean and efficient..

100% agree with everything you say. We very much do as locals do - regardless - we wouldn't have it any other way. I personally have never understood why western people move to the Asia then expect to continue living the exact same life as they did in there home country.

[soihok]

I will be leaving Singapore after almost 8 years here, job has come to an end so I,m Korat bound.

I agree with what has been posted here.

I am renting a three bedroom private apartment near Clementi for just over SGD3000 a month,,swimmingpool and gym ,etc,

Rental prices are now on the way down after a couple of crazy years and many expats are leaving also,so you will have no problem finding a resonable place for between SGD2000-3000,,and I dont have to remind you to haggle for the price,,it works everytime.

To give you an idea look at this site

http://www.8links.com/class.htm

My friend uses this agent and seems ok,the guy I have now I would,nt recommend. The prices can be brought down remember and an agent will expect 1 months rent as commission for a two year agreement.

Definately get some health insurance.

I,m selling my Yamaha V-Max soon if you,re after a bike (SDG3800).

Have a good time.

Cheers

Chris

[think_too_mut]

Ok guys - I am currently mulling over an expat position based in Singapore - paying Expat money (read: just over US$10k per month).

I have been trying for 3 years to get into Singapore.

Job agents all told me - I have to be there. When they get a call to send a candidate, the client wants someone to start next monday(large IT MNCs).

Nobody would <deleted> with my visas, family rellocation, school years. Finally, with this downturn I have given up, bought a car and staying where I am (Japan).

This opportunity may not come round again, take it now, that money is good. To take that much home in Tokyo you would have to be a senior manager.

[technocracy]

Cheers guys.

I am now in the 99% sure on moving boat. I've just got wait for them to get their fingers out and sort things out all being well it will be this week.

A couple of specific questions - how long does it take for a company to arrange the work visas?

and one for soihok as I know you're a footy fan (even Sheff Utd count! ) - I take it they show ALL the Premier league games there ala UBC?

[Captain Chaos]

Cheers guys.

I am now in the 99% sure on moving boat. I've just got wait for them to get their fingers out and sort things out all being well it will be this week.

A couple of specific questions - how long does it take for a company to arrange the work visas?

and one for soihok as I know you're a footy fan (even Sheff Utd count! ) - I take it they show ALL the Premier league games there ala UBC?

You should qualify for a full "Employment Pass" on that kind of money (there are some lower levels of work permits for people coming in as domestics etc) ... as I recall my first EP took about a week to process - company admin person did the application 100% online and I didn't have to go to the Ministry of Manpower at all, she took the passport down and came back with the relevant stamp in it and a green residents card. It's a super efficient system from that point of view. Wife should get a Dependants Pass linked to your EP - again, that should not be a problem and your company should handle it all for you.

Footie - different set up to Thailand/Laos but there are three channels that show footie at the weekends, all English commentary too. Even get occasional Championship games too (I'm a Bluenose - someone has to be! )

Better coverage of rugby etc too should you be into other sports. The only thing that doesn't seem to get shown much is pro boxing. Not sure why.

Sounds like a TV Singapore Chapter meet will be in order once you get yourself established here...

Good luck,

CC

[Marksamui]

I have been in Singpaore for over 2 years as an Expat with a Thai wife and baby. With the salary you are talking about you won't have too many problems and will be able to save 20-30%.

You can get a nice Condo now for 2.5-3k not far from the CBD. I am in harbourfront right opposite Vivo City in a new condo for 2.8k per month for a 2 bed.

Its not too bad here supermarkets are OK. The biggest cost is if you want to go out for 10 beers on a Friday night, that sets you back, but apart from that its a doddle.

Health Insurance try and get included, but you could do your own. I had to in my first year and I think for the family it was around $1,500 with a decent plan with AXA. But if you get it included it is better.

Car you really don't need. I have one because I used to work in Changi but now I am based in Raffles Place it does not get used and I am going to sell it.

Some things are cheap here, some not. But I like it.

[soihok]

Why not give it a go.

I,ll be sad to leave in a way but I,ll be heading to Thailand

Footy on cable TV, unfortunately I dont think I,ll be back this year to see Sheff Utd live in the Premiership, I,ll have to take the opportunity in Thailand instead.

I,ll be finishing a SGD14000 a month job, contract complete, job done.

Managed to save 50% of this a month and that was with the oldest daughter in a private special school....not cheap.

Are you interested in buying a V-Max?

[technocracy]

Why not give it a go.

I,ll be sad to leave in a way but I,ll be heading to Thailand

Footy on cable TV, unfortunately I dont think I,ll be back this year to see Sheff Utd live in the Premiership, I,ll have to take the opportunity in Thailand instead.

I,ll be finishing a SGD14000 a month job, contract complete, job done.

Managed to save 50% of this a month and that was with the oldest daughter in a private special school....not cheap.

Are you interested in buying a V-Max?

Hmmmmmmmmmmm V-Max . . . I was avoiding answering! Mainly because I'd instantly say a big yes mainly due to me always having some strange attraction to them even with rediculously bad handling for such a monster engine! But I at the moment will have to say . . . not at the mo! Mainly as the company are taking forever to even get the preliminary stuff sorted it's gonna be June at this rate for a start date, I've been told later this week, early next the managers will be intouch . . . but then again it was Easter this week (I forget about western holidays!).

Your boys missed a big old chance to get into the automatic spot on Monday! It looks unfortunately that the Dingles aren't going to do there normal implosion and screw it up - they could seal one auto spot on Saturday. The Brum look fallible. . . as with most if they fall late into the play offs then I'd expect them to fail - I was dreading last season that we (Stoke) were going to slip up and end up in the playoffs. The only thing I care that bloody Cardiff do not win promotion!!!!!!!!! But that's a conversation for the Football forum.

The 50% saving sounds good . . my mindset at the moment is just waiting til they finalise everything and we are definately going to make the move.

Edited April 16, 2009 by technocracy

[soihok]

Good Luck Mate

[technocracy]

Good Luck Mate

Cheers . . . but it won't be needed at the moment!

The company has decided to shelve the project - I thought something didn't seem quite right when it started to drag out after my initial conversations . . .

Oh well maybe next time . . but cheers all for the advice it's made my mind a clearer upon any future move to Singapore - which I will be looking for!

[dudeyone]

Last time I was there, I made 2.4k SGD a month, rented a room for 600, had a fairly good time going out once or twice a week and still manage to save around 30-40% of my salary. You people make me laugh with your "western" lifestyles.

[OriginalPoster]

Last time I was there, I made 2.4k SGD a month, rented a room for 600, had a fairly good time going out once or twice a week and still manage to save around 30-40% of my salary. You people make me laugh with your "western" lifestyles.

I've been rich and I've been poor. Rich is better.

[oldmanofphuket]

Sorry to hijack the post but what advice would you give me in bringing my Thai wife to Singapore. I am concerned that she'll get bored and

not have any friends. I assume that she won't be allowed to work???

I'd obviously get paid more in Sing- 60,000 sterling plus housing, medical, flights etc etc, and seriously considering it. But will be hard to leave Phuket (I own a condo here that I may keep) What do people reckon?

[technocracy]

Last time I was there, I made 2.4k SGD a month, rented a room for 600, had a fairly good time going out once or twice a week and still manage to save around 30-40% of my salary. You people make me laugh with your "western" lifestyles.

Dudeyone - please feel free to show me ANY post in this thread where I say I want a "western" lifestyle - but then again you probably haven't even read the thread let alone post #6 where I say:

In terms of lifestyle we live 100% local lifestyle - I have no concerns over western food as long as my wife can get to a market with fresh produce she'll be able cook up Lao food as she does everyday. With a 1 year old you can probably imagine we aren't exactly party animals - so just a few beers a week is about all that covers it and eating out would be once or maybe twice a week.

But hey don't let they stop you posting utter junk for no reason. So when you're grown up and have a family I guess you'll all be living in a single rented room will you or will Mummy and Daddy support you?

Why would I in my right mind take a job on any less than I can command? I have got over 15 years experience in a specialised field to take any job to be paid a pittance for the fun of it!

[Captain Chaos]

Sorry to hijack the post but what advice would you give me in bringing my Thai wife to Singapore. I am concerned that she'll get bored and

not have any friends. I assume that she won't be allowed to work???

I'd obviously get paid more in Sing- 60,000 sterling plus housing, medical, flights etc etc, and seriously considering it. But will be hard to leave Phuket (I own a condo here that I may keep) What do people reckon?

If you get an Employment Pass your wife should be granted a Dependants Pass which is linked to your EP. A DEP does not allow her to work but if she subsequently finds employment it is fairly simple to get a "Letter of Consent" from the Ministry of Manpower to allow her to take the job.

No need to get bored - plenty of Thais living / working in Singapore - the Golden Mile shopping complex on Beach Road is a popular hang out for the Thai community and there's any number of Thai owned restaurants around the place if you look for them...

CC

[OriginalPoster]

Last time I was there, I made 2.4k SGD a month, rented a room for 600, had a fairly good time going out once or twice a week and still manage to save around 30-40% of my salary. You people make me laugh with your "western" lifestyles.

Dudeyone - please feel free to show me ANY post in this thread where I say I want a "western" lifestyle - but then again you probably haven't even read the thread let alone post #6 where I say:

In terms of lifestyle we live 100% local lifestyle - I have no concerns over western food as long as my wife can get to a market with fresh produce she'll be able cook up Lao food as she does everyday. With a 1 year old you can probably imagine we aren't exactly party animals - so just a few beers a week is about all that covers it and eating out would be once or maybe twice a week.

But hey don't let they stop you posting utter junk for no reason. So when you're grown up and have a family I guess you'll all be living in a single rented room will you or will Mummy and Daddy support you?

Why would I in my right mind take a job on any less than I can command? I have got over 15 years experience in a specialised field to take any job to be paid a pittance for the fun of it!

Regardless of your intentions and preferences, you're going to live a pretty Westernized lifestyle in Singapore just by virtue of the fact that Singapore is a very Westernized place.

However, I think that the term "Western" is a bit misapplied in Dudeyone's post because it implies that "Western" equates to "extravagant" while "Eastern" equates to "frugal". In Singapore, as in most places, a person's spending tends to parallel their income level (regardless of whether they are an Easterner or a Westerner). I work with a number of Singaporean's who probably earn about the US$10K per month that was mentioned earlier, and I can tell you that these are not frugal people. Most locals in that income bracket will have a nice car, nice place to live, take their families on vacations, go out to dinner frequently, etc. They don't seem to be any more inclined to pinch pennies than Westerners who are in the same income bracket, perhaps less so.

Now certainly it's true that you can live on the S$2.5K salary that was mentioned by Dudeyone. After all, that's probably not a lot different than what a fresh engineering grad from NUS would make and no one thinks that they are poor people. But if we deride Westerners who make 5 times that for spending 5 times more, should we not also deride locals who do the same?

All that said US$10K/month in Singapore should be comfortable. Whether or not it will be enough to make you feel rich depends upon a lot of factors, but I doubt that you will fee strapped.

Edited April 17, 2009 by OriginalPoster

[dudeyone]

Last time I was there, I made 2.4k SGD a month, rented a room for 600, had a fairly good time going out once or twice a week and still manage to save around 30-40% of my salary. You people make me laugh with your "western" lifestyles.

Dudeyone - please feel free to show me ANY post in this thread where I say I want a "western" lifestyle - but then again you probably haven't even read the thread let alone post #6 where I say:

In terms of lifestyle we live 100% local lifestyle - I have no concerns over western food as long as my wife can get to a market with fresh produce she'll be able cook up Lao food as she does everyday. With a 1 year old you can probably imagine we aren't exactly party animals - so just a few beers a week is about all that covers it and eating out would be once or maybe twice a week.

But hey don't let they stop you posting utter junk for no reason. So when you're grown up and have a family I guess you'll all be living in a single rented room will you or will Mummy and Daddy support you?

Why would I in my right mind take a job on any less than I can command? I have got over 15 years experience in a specialised field to take any job to be paid a pittance for the fun of it!

I ain't talking about you. In fact I was on your side since you said you can live like a local. If you can live like a local on that salary, you will have no problems savings more than 50%. You'll live like a prince, not "depends". Singapore is expensive, but not expensive like these people describe. That's what I was on about. I see no idea why you had to start being out of line by the mommy and daddy junk paragraph.

Edited April 17, 2009 by dudeyone

[OriginalPoster]

I ain't talking about you. In fact I was on your side since you said you can live like a local. If you can live like a local on that salary, you will have no problems savings more than 50%. You'll live like a prince, not "depends". Singapore is expensive, but not expensive like these people describe. That's what I was on about. I see no idea why you had to start being out of line by the mommy and daddy junk paragraph.

Most of the people replying in this thread definitely sound like they are in a comfortable income bracket but you might be underestimating the amount of money that it takes to live like a prince in Singapore, or perhaps looking at it from the point of view of a single person (who may be able to economize in ways that a family cannot). Housing is the big item (you can always go without a car), even a 3 bedroom HDB flat is likely to be S$2K/month or more these days. But yeah, for me my total living expenses (excluding income taxes) are less than half of the salary that was mentioned at the top of this thread and I'm not living in a tent under a bridge.

Edited April 17, 2009 by OriginalPoster