Red-shirts Battle Blue-shirts In Pattaya

[Oberkommando]

And its also a fact that most Thai believe that the democrats are far less corrupt than other parties, Chuan for instance has a great respect for that matter even amongst his enemies.

Chuan's nickname 'The Painter' comes from his staunch defence of his government members accused of corruption.

Not to mention the National Counter Corruption Commission found him guilty of asset concealment.

And let's not even mention his brother.

He's just another pig at the trough, don't kid yourself otherwise.

He's also very friendly with those nasty Burmese Generals.

Edited April 11, 2009 by Oberkommando

[sinewave]

as bad as this is for thailand and the government, it is even worse for Thaksin.

Did I miss something here? Or did you accidentally say "even worse" instead of "a light at the end of the tunnel"?

Thaksin is showing his true colors to the delegates of the ASEAN summit, wasting their time and actually putting them in harms way.

ASEAN is for the good of the region, Thaksin is showing he has no disregard for the good of the region by disrupting the summit.

No disregard for anyone but himself.

There are times for everything, disrupting the ASEAN summit for the development of the region is not one of them. Policies are made at the summit and now the policies are put on hold because of Thaksin, I can't think of any delegate that would see any good in his actions, especialy during a looming world economic slowdown where policies are needed more than ever.

Aphisit's lack of action is correct, let the delegates feel the full flavor of Thaksin's wrath, the taste may just end up being too bitter to swallow.

If you were one of the delegates and felt at danger...who would you blame? the instigater or the protector?

you do not need a protector if there is no instigator.

[Old Man River]

I find it interesting that while a great number of people are belaboring the current government for being too weak, Jakrapob made these comments today at around 3 PM. The comments below are from www.2bangkok.com:

"Jakrapob Penkair is speaking in English on DTV now (around 3 PM today) to address the international community. He explains that the Red Shirts were ambushed and injured while trying to enter the summit hotel and two taxi drivers were shot. The Red Shirt moved into the hotel to escape attacks from people throwing rocks and to put pressure on the government. The message they wanted to tell the Asean leaders was that the Red Shirts were being attacked in their peaceful protest. He further says that the Red Shirts gatherings will continue past Songkran and will not end until the PM and Privy Councilors will resign as the Thai people are fed up with the aristocracy. He pleads with the international press to spread this message to their readers before more people are killed by the "vicious" Abhisit government."

I wonder if anyone really believes this crap.

[henryalleman]

Let us not be too critical of poor barely educated who try hard could do better

When the level headed Dutch, the revolting French and Fighting Irish who voted in EU refernda

Their mandate was not respected.

wrong, the referenda was about an EU constitution, the Dutch, French and Irish voted NO. Result the EU constitution was NOT implemented.

Please get your facts straight

[cougar52]

As reported, the Asean Summit has been called off. Unconfirmed, but likely true. Many news agencies are also pulling out for fear of safety. World leaders are advised to leave when they can.

something similar ever seen anywhere else worldwide??

No, H90, unless you count 5 months ago when your Yellow Mob did the same thing, Oh, excuse me they did not evade the summit because the Yellow Mob caused the PM to cancel it because they could not meet to set up the summit, do you remember or are you just to yellow colored to remember history.

[edwardmoulton]

as bad as this is for thailand and the government, it is even worse for Thaksin.

Did I miss something here? Or did you accidentally say "even worse" instead of "a light at the end of the tunnel"?

Thaksin is showing his true colors to the delegates of the ASEAN summit, wasting their time and actually putting them in harms way.

ASEAN is for the good of the region, Thaksin is showing he has no disregard for the good of the region by disrupting the summit.

No disregard for anyone but himself.

There are times for everything, disrupting the ASEAN summit for the development of the region is not one of them. Policies are made at the summit and now the policies are put on hold because of Thaksin, I can't think of any delegate that would see any good in his actions, especialy during a looming world economic slowdown where policies are needed more than ever.

Aphisit's lack of action is correct, let the delegates feel the full flavor of Thaksin's wrath, the taste may just end up being too bitter to swallow.

If you were one of the delegates and felt at danger...who would you blame? the instigater or the protector?

you do not need a protector if there is no instigator.

Total rubbish imho...

The only person looking very stupid indeed is Abhisit. He is in disgrace after inviting all the others to a summit in the wrong place at the wrong time and hosted by the wrong person and his team. They promised all would go ahead and all would be secure and they showed they have neither competence or the support of their people. Abhisit and his fellow muppets showed themselves to be totally out of their depth and all the other delegates have gone away laughing at him and Thailand.

Time to apologise and give up as it ain't for him. He ain't no Obama now is he!

[Thai at Heart]

Henry, I think to say that there isn't general support is a very dangerous idea. Just as the yellows had a silent level of support, there is a silent level of support for the reds. Simply because people don't actively protest doesn't mean that a lot of people are dissatisfied with the antics of the army, the PAD and the Dems over the last couple of years.

I have seen and heard more discussion about the short term and long term future for Thailand amongst Thai's in the last year than in any of the previous 20 I have been here. People feel very uneasy about which way the country will go.

In my interpretation there is a feeling that if the status quo doesn't change now, the so called elites/Bangkokians/Chinese business owners will have the country to themselves just at a time when the poor believed (rightly or wrongly)they may have had a champion to further their cause in the near future. It is extremely difficult to engender loyalty to the current system when it hasn't got you any further than planting rice on rented land.

Whilst I don't believe that the ideas of the reds appeal to an overwhelming majority of Thai's, I think it appeals to more people than the ideas propagated by the PAD. As for the Dems, well they haven't had any major appeal outside their strongholds in recent years. Is this down to brainwashing or corruption or I reckon more probably that the poor outside of the South don't believe they have ever really done anything for them?

Edited - Quotes didn't work

Thai at Heart.

Of course its my personal opinion, and so is yours. Its all depend in wich environment you stay. I confess that I have more connections in the Thai urban society.

But the contacts that I have in Isan and North, do like to end the current situation, and non of them believe that Thaksin is the answer. His image is just damaged too much. And yes they feel neglected, but they also know dam_n well that Thaksin is using them like a prostitute for his own gain.

And the recent stimulus from the present government regarding education, 2000 Baht, free water and so on is highly appreciated.

Also don't underestimate the fact that Abhisit is good looking, polite,well behaving and well spoken. For westerners its maybe rather irrelevant but you, as I know, its still very important in Thai culture.

Why otherwise Thai soap and their stars are so popular.

And indeed I agree with you that Thailand needs big social reforms, but who are the leaders of the red brigade you can trust to deliver it. Is it Chalerm, Samak or some other of the tree stooges?

And its also a fact that most Thai believe that the democrats are far less corrupt than other parties, Chuan for instance has a great respect for that matter even amongst his enemies.

And as I suggested in an other topic. Lets evaluate the situation end of next week.

BTW, my nickname is not Thai at Heart but I can vow to you that my concern and empathy for the unprivileged in Thai society is immense, due to my many travels all over the country.

And that's why I believe that changes in the society can only be reached by education, and this is exactly one of the major targets of the present government, together with establishing a good health care. And that is again what the present government did, the 30 baht health scheme didn't work before and only after a few months its works almost perfectly now, as everybody can testify.

So give this government the benefit of the doubt till the next elections who are any how held next year. And don't you agree that due to the current worldwide economical collapse its not good to have a paralyzed government who must spend months in campaigning and after that spend months in negotiations to form a new government. Or are you so sure that the opposition will win this elections with an overwhelming majority. And again, do you honestly believe that the reds have able statesman to rule the country in the present economical situation. I think you can agree that Chalerm or Samak are definitely not those men.

I too have travelled out into the villages in agricultural development. I have seen rural village living north, south, east and west of the country. There are places there that but for the fact that the people can essentially feed themselves, would be classed as poverty by any persons measurement. The farmers often don't own their land, and are simply feeding their produce into Bangkok based and owned processing and export companies.

I have seen the contracts that farmers have to sign to supply x or y company. They are in debt from day one and find it extremely hard or virtually impossible to extricate themselves from these contracts so are tied to a company in perpetuity until the debt is repaid. The companies manipulate the government of the day to mess with the prices and bingo, the little man gets screwed. The system absolutely sucks and I can understand why having someone who increases the minimum prices, throws 1mn baht into the village, and appears to promise them healthcare can generate quite a lot of popularity pretty quickly.

Of course, the situation is that stability should be the order of the day, but that is looking at it from a farang, international business perspective. There is inevitable change coming to the system some day in Thailand and the poor don't give a dam_n about GDP today or interest rates. All they know is that they are poor and if there is a government of the day that doesn't or hasn't given a dam_n about them ever before what are the odds that the government of the day is all of a sudden going to proclaim that as a target they want rural development as a priority?

They will back anyone who shows them a glimmer of hope of a better future. Wouldn't you?

PS I know Abhisit has been busy but where is his rural development plan?

[edwardmoulton]

I find it interesting that while a great number of people are belaboring the current government for being too weak, Jakrapob made these comments today at around 3 PM. The comments below are from www.2bangkok.com:

"Jakrapob Penkair is speaking in English on DTV now (around 3 PM today) to address the international community. He explains that the Red Shirts were ambushed and injured while trying to enter the summit hotel and two taxi drivers were shot. The Red Shirt moved into the hotel to escape attacks from people throwing rocks and to put pressure on the government. The message they wanted to tell the Asean leaders was that the Red Shirts were being attacked in their peaceful protest. He further says that the Red Shirts gatherings will continue past Songkran and will not end until the PM and Privy Councilors will resign as the Thai people are fed up with the aristocracy. He pleads with the international press to spread this message to their readers before more people are killed by the "vicious" Abhisit government."

I wonder if anyone really believes this crap.

I do....

Edited April 11, 2009 by edwardmoulton

[SoMeOnEnUlL]

Rainman, you disappeared for a while there. Out washing the blood out of one of your red t-shirts??

Wow, you were really close there with that guess.

No, actually I was supervising the construction of our house, in specific at that moment, the kitchen. I almost missed your dumb comments for a while, too.

Need any more details or does that satisfy you for now?

Well you only posted 19 seconds after my post, so you couldnt of really been supervising anything.....you been attending the reds school of how to lie and not get caught out....or were you secretely hiding in on the yellows school of the same lesson?

As I said before, your jumping up and down like a one legged man in an arse kicking contest....you should remove your red underwear and sniff......it stinks.

wow why such attacks neverdie? you should not attack TV members in this fasion it makes you look more foolish than the avatar you sport...

I thought most TV members are old farangs (no offense, intended), but I am surprised to see such kids' fight.

[LuckyFive8888]

From some of the post on this thread it is more than apparent, that those decrying what the red shirt do, have more than likely never visited the North and North east of Thailand. I am not a Thaksin supporter but I would never be a Democrat. Until Thaksin came along the poor would get a visit just before election time, by the Dems, who would promise them the world then win the election and clear off back to Bkk and do nothing for the poor.

Thaksin gave them a little something in return for there votes, he was not stupid he realised that you had to throw down some corn for the poor. I am sure we all agree that all Thai politicians are corrupt( well most) so Mr T is no different to any of the others. The elite have used the Dems to further their wealth with the support of the army and ringed by an institution I am not allowed to talk about.

Thaksin has is own agenda and the poor have theirs and the only chance for the poor to achieve their agenda is by pinning all thier hopes on Mr T.

A previous poster said that this was a conflict between Royalists and Republicans and that to me is 100% correct. The poor have never had a leader who took on the establishment, now they have and he aint going away. Unfortunately history shows us that to reach true democracy we have to have bloodshed. Not a nice thought but the poor are no longer wai-ing to the elite and thanking them for letting them be poor

thaksin's populists policies targets the poor, obviously, and there's nothing wrong about that. yes, he had done something, in fact, lot's of things for the poor that's why they've loved him. but do you really think thaksin is a missionary? he did all those things to get momentum in the region and the poor majority; to get votes, or buy it. he's a typical joe politician scumbag, a businessman for a profit, lot's of it in fact. thaksin will sell thailand for his own good/interest. i'm not anti-thaksin and not pro-democrats and i can see both sides have their own problems but i would be on the side of the ones who will protect the royal institution; in this time, the democrats. let's not be blind, thaksin and his group are a threat to the RI at this moment in time, they want revolution as we all knew it but afraid to speak about it. unfortunately, thailand must not let this happen as they cannot handle it, not without the RI.

what i want to see now is that, restore the peace and country's security, thaksin should stop messing up with the current government and go home to defend himself in the court of law, arrests the red and yellow shirted leaders, and after a couple of years have a free and democratic election.

Edited April 11, 2009 by LuckyFive8888

[mrtoad]

I would hate to be Abhisit now. The feeling in your stomach that you finally became PM and then you have to step down again after such a short time must really not be a nice one. If he had only played it smart and called for free elections right away, he would have been PM for a long time. People would have probably voted for him too. But by clinging on to power and not letting go, he gave the momentum back to Thaksin.

I'm guessing though, that you are at least a good driver.

[edwardmoulton]

Oh good, here we go....

The big muscle coming in:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/14...nt-to-muscle-up

Civil war unless Abhisit shows he has some diplomacy skills and stands down...

[lannarebirth]

Abhisit just been talking live, saying they are trying to get things back to normal.

Back to normal is to be back like when we had Khun Thaksin as Prime Minister.

Koo, Thaksin is never, ever coming back. He gets further away everyday. He is closer than ever to being involved in an accidental plane crash. He's a dead man walking.

[edwardmoulton]

Abhisit just been talking live, saying they are trying to get things back to normal.

Back to normal is to be back like when we had Khun Thaksin as Prime Minister.

Koo, Thaksin is never, ever coming back. He gets further away everyday. He is closer than ever to being involved in an accidental plane crash. He's a dead man walking.

You think anyone in this government could organise that when they cannot even organise a meeting in a hotel with months to prepare... And if anything happens to Thaksin he is an even bigger motivator as a martyr! Theya re not that stupid... or are they???

[eldar1]

I find it interesting that while a great number of people are belaboring the current government for being too weak, Jakrapob made these comments today at around 3 PM. The comments below are from www.2bangkok.com:

"Jakrapob Penkair is speaking in English on DTV now (around 3 PM today) to address the international community. He explains that the Red Shirts were ambushed and injured while trying to enter the summit hotel and two taxi drivers were shot. The Red Shirt moved into the hotel to escape attacks from people throwing rocks and to put pressure on the government. The message they wanted to tell the Asean leaders was that the Red Shirts were being attacked in their peaceful protest. He further says that the Red Shirts gatherings will continue past Songkran and will not end until the PM and Privy Councilors will resign as the Thai people are fed up with the aristocracy. He pleads with the international press to spread this message to their readers before more people are killed by the "vicious" Abhisit government."

I wonder if anyone really believes this crap.

hahaha, that's the kind of spin that i would expect on fox news or something. The reds/trt/thaksin really live in this fantasy lalaland and will use anyhting to rationalize their criminal actions instigated by their criminal leader. The fact that the army and police let this happen like they did with the PAD airport seizure means it's another bodyblow to democracy in thailand.

Is there nobody that will stand up for democracy in this country? To stand up against yellow shirted and red shirted thugs that rule this country. To lock up that authoritarian criminal thug called thaksin together with his banned posse of cronies in what ever the trt is called these days and hold some proper elections. Oh champion of the people were art thou?

[Old Man River]

And its also a fact that most Thai believe that the democrats are far less corrupt than other parties, Chuan for instance has a great respect for that matter even amongst his enemies.

Chuan's nickname 'The Painter' comes from his staunch defence of his government members accused of corruption.

Not to mention the National Counter Corruption Commission found him guilty of asset concealment.

And let's not even mention his brother.

He's just another pig at the trough, don't kid yourself otherwise.

He's also very friendly with those nasty Burmese Generals.

Well, we know who the real painter is now.

Chuan, an attorney, has defended the accused, was found guilty of forgetting to disclose a small amount of shares in a rural cooperative, has a dishonest brother and despite having been PM twice, has lived in the same small house for over 20 years and has a net worth of less than USD 150,000. As for his relations with the Burmese generals, you quickly you forget that even your hero, Thaksin, had close relations with the Myanmar junta. In fact, he made them a huge loan so that they could buy his telecommunications equipment.

[jackspratt]

Give Kim Jong-il and North Korea a lesson on military dictatorship? They could learn something from Thailand.

When I read your posts the two thoughts that come to mind are silly and simplistic. I am still trying to work out in what order.

There are many posters on TV who may add absolutely nothing to the sum total of human knowledge - unfortunately you actually detract.

And now theres two of you Jackspratt. Leave rainman alone, at least he is passionate about his work, unlike you, a person who just hangs in the background and ridicules other posters. Jack, you detract from the human race.

Here we go again neverdie

I am happy for others to judge whether or not rainman posts with passion.What he obviously lacks is any intellect, so in that way I can understand you defending a like soul.

At the moment, Thailand is overwhelmed by passionate responses and actions, where some thought and caution is called for. I guess you are only capable of being a spectator in this process

[edwardmoulton]

It get's better by the minute:

BBC News stream:

LATEST: Thai government to launch an inquiry into police protection for summit overcome by protesters

Ummm.... What did we do wrong? Nothing, we were just unlucky. Ok, enquiry over.

Edited April 11, 2009 by edwardmoulton

[mrtoad]

10th April 2009. No weapon as per the law. Otherwise they would have been cleared by tear gas.

Bunch of wanke_rs!

Probably the most accurate post on this thread.

Have you seen "The Fugitive" in Dubai?

[lannarebirth]

Abhisit just been talking live, saying they are trying to get things back to normal.

Back to normal is to be back like when we had Khun Thaksin as Prime Minister.

Koo, Thaksin is never, ever coming back. He gets further away everyday. He is closer than ever to being involved in an accidental plane crash. He's a dead man walking.

You think anyone in this government could organise that when they cannot even organise a meeting in a hotel with months to prepare... And if anything happens to Thaksin he is an even bigger motivator as a martyr! Theya re not that stupid... or are they???

I think you're wrong. Thais have a great tolerance for the corrupt. What Thaksin and his family have now done however, extends well beyond that. It is seditious. It is actionable and likely to garner sympathy from other governments. I think you have a wrong take on what has just happened. Thaksin can't possibly make a deal now.

[Old Man River]

Odds on a coup after the holidays anyone?

Absolutely no need for this. All that has to happen is the current government to enforce the rule of law. The Reds have just left that door wide open.

[jackspratt]

Oh good, here we go....

The big muscle coming in:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/14...nt-to-muscle-up

Civil war unless Abhisit shows he has some diplomacy skills and stands down...

I am constantly bemused by those who can easily (despite some evidence to the contrary) connect the Aphisit government to the yellow shirts, but are intellectually incapable of separating Thaksin and the red shirts.

Sigh!

[1Lucky]

You cant have ordinary people terrorised in their own homes by nutters with molotovs. This has gone beyond peaceful protest. It is time for the authorities to take action.

Isn't that one of the key parts of the problem and wasn't it during the yellow shirt protests - that the 'authorities' don't appear to take action and some may argue don't appear to really have much 'authority' either?? (Though I'm certainly not suggesting a autocratic crackdown).

Edited April 11, 2009 by 1Lucky

[swifty5x5]

Demonstrations and mobs during summits are not something new or strange. In UK and France, we had some last week for the G20 and Otan. Far stronger. But Obama, Sarkozy, Merkel and John Major :-) managed to chat together.

Thai police is probably one of the weakest or the less trained in the world.

Are the helicopters made for the dogs? Is Thailand too poor to provide a aircraft / PM?

It should be a source of national shame that the country cannot provide basic security for a prestigious meeting of important neighbours. The ASEAN members are important for the future and development of Thailand. The news from Pattaya has become lead story on the BBC and no doubt other international channels.

The Thai police and ragtag security forces are shown up on the international stage as a joke, a laughing stock. Why should our neighbours take Thailand seriously if this shame is allowed?

Bangon!

[tracer5050]

This shows me that no matter who is PM , there will be demonstrations , There is no win till the goverment changes how they deal with protestors.

[Oberkommando]

And its also a fact that most Thai believe that the democrats are far less corrupt than other parties, Chuan for instance has a great respect for that matter even amongst his enemies.

Chuan's nickname 'The Painter' comes from his staunch defence of his government members accused of corruption.

Not to mention the National Counter Corruption Commission found him guilty of asset concealment.

And let's not even mention his brother.

He's just another pig at the trough, don't kid yourself otherwise.

He's also very friendly with those nasty Burmese Generals.

Well, we know who the real painter is now.

Chuan, an attorney, has defended the accused, was found guilty of forgetting to disclose a small amount of shares in a rural cooperative, has a dishonest brother and despite having been PM twice, has lived in the same small house for over 20 years and has a net worth of less than USD 150,000. As for his relations with the Burmese generals, you quickly you forget that even your hero, Thaksin, had close relations with the Myanmar junta. In fact, he made them a huge loan so that they could buy his telecommunications equipment.

Thaksin is no hero of mine.

No surprise to see you excusing Chuan's unsavoury dealings with the Burmese Generals by trotting out the tired old "but Thaksin was worse" or "Thaksin did that too" excuse.

You are nothing if not predictable.

[mrtoad]

I do....

Your nickname isn't Mega Grin is it? As your posts remind me of one of my old teachers.

[lannarebirth]

It get's better by the minute:

BBC News stream:

LATEST: Thai government to launch an inquiry into police protection for summit overcome by protesters

Ummm.... What did we do wrong? Nothing, we were just unlucky. Ok, enquiry over.

That is better and here's why. An inquiry will no longer be seen as local political infighting. Shitting large on an international stage opens a lot of room for remedial action.

[edwardmoulton]

Oh good, here we go....

The big muscle coming in:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/14...nt-to-muscle-up

Civil war unless Abhisit shows he has some diplomacy skills and stands down...

I am constantly bemused by those who can easily (despite some evidence to the contrary) connect the Aphisit government to the yellow shirts, but are intellectually incapable of separating Thaksin and the red shirts.

Sigh!

That's right.... Of course, silly me. Abhisit's government has absolutely no connection to the yellow shirts.... My mistake!

[xminator]

For the life of me I can't understand what the problem is here!

Just hold fresh elections and let the majority rule!

That's democracy.

What is the problem?

Because the current powerhouse would loose, so why go trough all the trouble? They might even risk that PT go trough without anything that even a thai court would touch. What a mess that would be.