Red-shirts Battle Blue-shirts In Pattaya

[edwardmoulton]

Demonstrations and mobs during summits are not something new or strange. In UK and France, we had some last week for the G20 and Otan. Far stronger. But Obama, Sarkozy, Merkel and John Major :-) managed to chat together.

Thai police is probably one of the weakest or the less trained in the world.

Are the helicopters made for the dogs? Is Thailand too poor to provide a aircraft / PM?

It should be a source of national shame that the country cannot provide basic security for a prestigious meeting of important neighbours. The ASEAN members are important for the future and development of Thailand. The news from Pattaya has become lead story on the BBC and no doubt other international channels.

The Thai police and ragtag security forces are shown up on the international stage as a joke, a laughing stock. Why should our neighbours take Thailand seriously if this shame is allowed?

Bangon!

It has been lead item on BBC all day from what I have seen...

And it is quite amazing how Thailand in the last few months has had so many skeletons come out. With the violence all last year, government house, the airport, Phuket plane crash, Santika, convicting Thaksin, abuse of Rohingya, temple row, Hua Hin Asean mess, murder of Brit on yacht etc etc..

I would guess that Thailand has taken more front page slots on global news for different stories than any other country. Anyone have the facts?

Either way, my relatives in Europe cannot believe why Thailand always hits the news and always for the wrong reasons!

Sadly, I see a country in deep trouble at every level, proof that the old ways don't work any more but yet such resistance to any change... Tough times ahead!

[nantharat]

I AM SITTING HERE INENGLAND THINKING TO MYSELF WHAT DO THESE THUGS CALLED RED SHIRTS WANT AND I HAVE DECIDED THAT THE DO NOT WANT DEMOCRACY ONLY WAR.MR THASKIN IS ONLY NAFTER ONE THING COMPLETE CONTROL OF THAILAN.WHY ISNT THE ARMY OR POLICE STOPPING THESE THUGS AND I SALUTE THE LOCAL PEOPLE IN PATTAYA IN THEIR BRAVE STANCE.

I HAVE INVESTED A FAIR BIT OF MONEY INTO THAILAND BUT NO MORE.I LOVE THAILAND BUT I AM AFRAID THAILAND IS HEADING INTO CIVIL WAR.

DAVID BOULDING

[Guest Reimar]

The Nation

COMMENTARY

Round Two: Everyone Loses

By Tulsathit Taptim

Even though Thaksin Shinawatra may be laughing, there is no winner after the Pattaya infamy

Pattaya will lose billions of baht. Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has lost his face, and his job is under greater threat. To other Thais, Songkran has been pretty much spoiled. Thailand's image as a whole has taken a new hit. Economically struggling Asean has to defer discussing some crucial plans. The red-shirted movement, while having achieved a key objective of preventing the Asean summit with dialogue partners, can't be content with the glaring truth that, like its rival People's Alliance for Democracy, it has become its own worst enemy.

And Thaksin Shinawatra will only get brief satisfaction from the turmoil in Pattaya that led to the cancellation of the summit and declaration of state of emergency which leaves everything hanging in the balance. He will be cheering a "triumph" of his supporters in the next address through video link, but deep down he must know that he is not fighting to win, that to get even is the best he can get. He has been way past of the point of no-return, and what happened in Pattaya on Saturday only serves to lengthen the distance between the man and his motherland.

The biggest loss, however, belongs to us, no matter what colours of the shirts we are wearing. The political divide was not about to be bridged any time soon, but the Pattaya incident has further dimmed the fragile hope. We had wanted things to improve, but now we would be glad if they don't get any worse.

It's been an-eye-for-an-eye showdown. You can seize Government House, so we can block city traffic. You can take over the airport, so we can torpedo an international summit. You fight for democracy that rejects corrupt polticians, we can fight for democracy that respects the voices of the poor.

A common sense of national values has been a long-time victim, who was beaten to near death on Saturday. The nation has lost its way for some time, and the Pattaya infamy ensures there will remain no light at the end of the tunnel in the foreseeable future. The vunerable national harmony has been dealt a new blow, and the threat to nationhood has never looked more real.

Those involved in the years-long power struggle have done their best to make sure that politics affects everyone's life. Too bad the general Thais have only been feeling the negative effects of a war that those responsible insisted was for a greater good. We have come to learn that perhaps people go into war not because they are different. Maybe what has been happening was caused by the fact that we are all too much alike.

[Emeritus]

There will be blood... no doubt.

I fear that this is exactly what Thaksin may be trying to provoke: civil disorder, bloodshed, anarchy, following which he will return as the glorious saviour of the nation. Not an interesting prospect, I should say.

[brianb1944]

I am surprised that the eastern Europeans with vested interests in Pattaya havent quietly gone about dissuading people from disrupting their livelihood. I am sure they have both the personnel and hardware to be persuasive.

[neverdie]

I AM SITTING HERE INENGLAND THINKING TO MYSELF WHAT DO THESE THUGS CALLED RED SHIRTS WANT AND I HAVE DECIDED THAT THE DO NOT WANT DEMOCRACY ONLY WAR.MR THASKIN IS ONLY NAFTER ONE THING COMPLETE CONTROL OF THAILAN.WHY ISNT THE ARMY OR POLICE STOPPING THESE THUGS AND I SALUTE THE LOCAL PEOPLE IN PATTAYA IN THEIR BRAVE STANCE.

I HAVE INVESTED A FAIR BIT OF MONEY INTO THAILAND BUT NO MORE.I LOVE THAILAND BUT I AM AFRAID THAILAND IS HEADING INTO CIVIL WAR.

DAVID BOULDING

Thanks David for your imput. It may pay for you to have a read of this.

cheers

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Forum-Netiquette-t254949.html

[flying]

What makes you feel so superior?

You

LOL.......Like your gf/bf said.............Is that the best you can do?

[henryalleman]

They will back anyone who shows them a glimmer of hope of a better future. Wouldn't you?

Probably I would also, but very soon I would realize that I have been screwed.

PS I know Abhisit has been busy but where is his rural development plan?

His sufficiency plan for rural Thailand will be implemented very soon. I agree its not a perfect plan, but a kind of emergency plan to overcome the present economic situation till things get better and the people get better educated and due to that better paid jobs will be available. but this will take time and a lot of billions and efforts. But its the only hope to make an genuine improvement and preventing further deepening of poverty. Also his stimulus plan for better accessible and free education is a part of it.

You seems to made many travels around just like me, and indeed the poverty I have seen is almost unbearable to watch. And not alone in rural areas just walk into the small soi of any midscale town in Thailand. just look into the back of the Mom & Pop shops, their living conditions are many times almost inhuman.

And don't you agree that Thaksin put the rural population deeper in debt?

Its not accidental that he is hiding in an Arab country. Don't you remember that several Arabs bought up farmland after bankruptcy.

I don't care that he stole billions by corruption, but what I can never forgive him, is that he cheated the poor and ignorant with his so called free loans. Those loans created lost of farms, land, houses and deep misery.Most of this so called free loans came back in his pocket by the companies he controls. In my eyes an despicable man.

And now the poor and ignorant still see him as their saviour because they hope, once he back in power he will give them again new so called free loans or cancel their present loans. If you know Isan as I do, you do know that's what they are hoping for. This is the real drama of rural Thailand.

Again I hate that despicable man for those crimes he commit against the poor and ignorants.

.

[TonySoprano]

Dear Mr. Pot,

You are black.

Sincerely,

Mr. Kettle

[IMA_FARANG]

When is the Baht going to get hit ?? ...it must be due now

Soon I hope.

But it won't change until after Songkran anyhow, because the banks will be closed.

[Oberkommando]

They will back anyone who shows them a glimmer of hope of a better future. Wouldn't you?

Probably I would also, but very soon I would realize that I have been screwed.

PS I know Abhisit has been busy but where is his rural development plan?

His sufficiency plan for rural Thailand will be implemented very soon.

Who's plan?

[flying]

It get's better by the minute:

BBC News stream:

LATEST: Thai government to launch an inquiry into police protection for summit overcome by protesters

Ummm.... What did we do wrong? Nothing, we were just unlucky. Ok, enquiry over.

That is better and here's why. An inquiry will no longer be seen as local political infighting. Shitting large on an international stage opens a lot of room for remedial action.

Bangkok International Suvarnabhumi Airport ??

Edited April 11, 2009 by flying

[mango66]

The 'logic' used for the yellow shirts was that they had the 'right' to protest. That included taking over public buildings, public places, closing public roads. If the gov't considered this legal--or legal enough not to pursue legal action against those involved, then they need to do the same for the red shirts.

In both cases it's a wrong approach and in most places wouldn't be tolerated. The amount of force used to stop them would be the amount necessary. Lots of back up troops and you keep uping the force until they disperse or head for an area where they are not a threat. You don't let them take over international airports or international meetings. In both cases the security of a lot of people was and is being ignored.

Demonstrations. Yes. Expression of views. Yes. Disruption and potential danger to both civilians and leaders of foreign nations. No.

4 questions?

1. How many months did the PAD demonstrate peacefully?

2. Why did they see it was necessary to take drastic actions at the end?

3. How many months have the red shirts demonstrated peacefully?

4. Why do they see it necessary to take drastic actions?

He Guy !

Keep the full story !

Yellow were demonstrating against election fraud with taxe frouded money by a PM !

The reds demonstrating to change a Pm, elected by MP's - democratically in the parliament!

PM to be replaced by courded Criminals hiding the country !

What He is doing now would be in recent time in democratic europe

courded as ! Hochverrat ! deversing a country and a GVT !

Dont asked for penalty terms for such activities !

USA are used Guantamo for that !

Is this the same ??

[MrSnrang]

Think... All of this calamity could have been avoided if Thaksin had just ignored Sondhi instead of taking him to court for millions of baht in god knows how many libel lawsuits.

[atlas_shrugged]

TV say Blue Shirt are soldiers, and is fully equipped with weapons..?

I see this coming.

Personally, red shirt should just stop this and enjoy Songkran and allow this meeting to go on. This is bad for business.

If its true that some blues are solidiers then Annupong must start with immediate disciplinary action and also be on the TV apologising to the Thai people so this surely.

It would be an utter disgrace to the Army cheif to find his subordinates involved in such things, surely he would step down.

My partner & I saw about five 10-wheel trucks full of blue-shirts parked at the intersection of Sukhumvit and South Pattaya Road on Friday morning. I commented to my partner that they were all men, and they were noticeably taller and more muscular than average Thai men. They looked seriously serious, if you get my drift.

[wrecker]

Who was the source? I have seen very different scenes..

[LuckyFive8888]

TV say Blue Shirt are soldiers, and is fully equipped with weapons..?

I see this coming.

Personally, red shirt should just stop this and enjoy Songkran and allow this meeting to go on. This is bad for business.

If its true that some blues are solidiers then Annupong must start with immediate disciplinary action and also be on the TV apologising to the Thai people so this surely.

It would be an utter disgrace to the Army cheif to find his subordinates involved in such things, surely he would step down.

My partner & I saw about five 10-wheel trucks full of blue-shirts parked at the intersection of Sukhumvit and South Pattaya Road on Friday morning. I commented to my partner that they were all men, and they were noticeably taller and more muscular than average Thai men. They looked seriously serious, if you get my drift.

as i've commented before, they don't looked like soldiers to me as they have long hair (from the photo in the forum) and soldiers or anyone would not gro hair overnight. surely, they were organized. might have came from yellow as well, might just be local patters who were just trying to help the government. still, this is a bad planning and shouldn't been organised in the first place.

what are the soldiers and police doing? they supposed to maintain the peace and security at the summit! why aren't they allowed to arrest or retrain anyone who tried to break-in into the hotel, they are a possible threat to the delegates don't they?

all i can say is that, weak government by aphisit. it's a shame...

[samtam]

Surely today's shenanigans are just a prelude to a coup d'etat? The scenario is that neither red or yellow can run the country, et voila...it's time for the generals to return to what they've done for a very long time. And there are some important "known unknowns", (to misquote Rumsfeld), that need to be nurtured in the remaining years of the unknown known occurring. Simple innit.

[JRinger]

I'm sure many will disagree, but I was just told (by my Thai family) that most of the 'red shirts' were previously 'yellow shirts'. They're getting 1,000 baht a day to 'protest' and the 'big guys' who are coordinating are getting 1 million a month.....certainly makes sense to me, i.e., why slave over a hot barbecue making sausage when you can travel to Bkk & Pattaya with your friends & family and get paid for it......and the one's who make the most trouble get bonuses.....In other words....if they weren't getting money to go, they wouldn't go.....hope this all turns out ok, but ?

[sinewave]

as bad as this is for thailand and the government, it is even worse for Thaksin.

Did I miss something here? Or did you accidentally say "even worse" instead of "a light at the end of the tunnel"?

Thaksin is showing his true colors to the delegates of the ASEAN summit, wasting their time and actually putting them in harms way.

ASEAN is for the good of the region, Thaksin is showing he has no disregard for the good of the region by disrupting the summit.

No disregard for anyone but himself.

There are times for everything, disrupting the ASEAN summit for the development of the region is not one of them. Policies are made at the summit and now the policies are put on hold because of Thaksin, I can't think of any delegate that would see any good in his actions, especialy during a looming world economic slowdown where policies are needed more than ever.

Aphisit's lack of action is correct, let the delegates feel the full flavor of Thaksin's wrath, the taste may just end up being too bitter to swallow.

If you were one of the delegates and felt at danger...who would you blame? the instigater or the protector?

you do not need a protector if there is no instigator.

Total rubbish imho...

The only person looking very stupid indeed is Abhisit. He is in disgrace after inviting all the others to a summit in the wrong place at the wrong time and hosted by the wrong person and his team. They promised all would go ahead and all would be secure and they showed they have neither competence or the support of their people. Abhisit and his fellow muppets showed themselves to be totally out of their depth and all the other delegates have gone away laughing at him and Thailand.

Time to apologise and give up as it ain't for him. He ain't no Obama now is he!

No support of their people? have you not seen the youtube video where office workers at the Sathorn and Narathiwat intersection took it upon themselves to disband the redshirts?...regular working people....no colored shirts.

Why did the resdhirts flee the scene? because they were scared...plain and simple...what were they scared of? They had the misconceived notion that they had the majority support of the people.

This clearly shows the redshirts are in the minority, atleast in Bangkok.

The people are tired of all this and just want to be able to feed their families.

All Aphisit has to do is give the word, and its on...but he shows restraint and is not falling for Thaksin's tricks.

Unlike yourself.

It is a sad sad sad world you must live in, not to be able to see the damage caused by Thaksin to the ASEAN summit...even a blind man can see this.

Thaksin has shot himself in the foot and his actions can only get crazier. Possibly to the point of insanity...

[Indra]

I live in Pattaya at a place where I am in the midst of the red shirts; their leaders with the loudspeakers sound crazy and judging by the number of red shirts carrying poles and other weapons they are all set for a fight.

One of the all-too-few on-the-scene eyewitness accounts. Thanks for that. It's easier to get an assessment of a situation with eyewitness accounts.

For those demanding a new election, let me say, don't forget, this is Thailand - elections aren't what a westerner might expect an election to be. In Thailand, there is scant little campaigning, fewer debates, many topics are taboo, many votes are bought. Let's allow Abhisit a few years in office, while Thais try to learn what an election is. Then maybe they can do a better job at it.

Let's them have the new election and let them choose freely.

When the vote buyer distribute the money, and the people accept the money and give their vote in return, then it is their decision.

However, there will be time when the people are getting smarter, they'll receive the money and vote to what they think is a decent one.

Why you think that you are right with what you are thinking? Are the westerners always right?

For those justifying what the Reds are doing by saying the Yellows did the same or worse: That sort of justification is what we'd expect from 5 year old Tommy's mother, when Paul's mother says Tommy did something naughty. It's like; "so what if my little Tommy burned down the goat shed, your little Paul burned down the chicken coop last year. nah nah nah nah nah, pooh pooh on you.

But then Tommy finds out that Paul is having a party with the roasted chicken, then Tommy also wants to have the BBQ mutton

2 p.m. headline news on BBC showed hundreds of Red Shirts walking in to the hotel in Pattaya. The commentary repeated over and over how ineffective security was for the event. My take on it: the police are charged with protecting law and order. They should set up one or two cordons. If any group, regardless of shirt color, attempts to force their way through the cordon, the cops need to take necessary force to hold the line. Some police chief heads should roll, figuratively speaking. Bring in outside police forces, if local authorities can't do the job.

And this talk about "one Red Shirt death, and then Abhisit should resign." is a load of garbagio. People die every hour in Thailand, for all sorts of dumb reasons. Why should Abhisit be personally responsible for the death or one or more hot headed firebrands bent of causing trouble?

I smell Tiananmen style of thinking.

Do you think that Red Shirts deserve Tiananmen part 2?

I think all westerners condemn Tiananmen Square Massacre, are you an exception?

[george]

This topic continues here:

Emergency laws lifted