April 13, 2009, The Black Songkran

[george]

April 13, 2009, the Black Songkran

Thailand faces another black day in politics. Follow the developments as they happen here

BANGKOK: -- Tension remains very high in the Din Daeng area, with retreating protesters putting up resistance near the Din Daeng flat and holding the community hostage by threatening to blow up a gas truck. Following is our live report. Please refresh the page regularly to see the updates:

3 pm: Army spokesman Sansern Kaewkamnerd says that despite sporadic incidents. the operation to retake control of the Victory Monument and nearby areas has been "satisfactory". He denies claims that some protesters had been killed. There had been no death, he insisted.

He also says footage of soldiers aiming and firing at protesters could have misled the public, because the soldiers were only firing blank bullets.

3.10 pm: Scattered protesters in the Sri Ayutthaya intersection are said to have fled toward the Urupong area.

2.45 pm: Tension is very high between flat residents and the protesters. One TV reporter reports seeing protesters beating and chasing some residents.

2.30 pm: Din Daeng flat residents and some officers try unsuccessfully to negotiate with red-shirted protesters who parked a gas truck near the flat the community. Gas valve has been secured and the authorities shower water on the truck. Although the protesters claimed the use of the gas truck was only meant as a blockade, there was increasingly fear among the residents about an explosion.

1.30pm: Thick smoke is spotted at the Victory Monument. Red-shirted protesters reportedly set tyres on fire just opposite the Rajvithi Hospital and some protesters also drove a car over a fiberglass police statue near the monument. Police also ask people to get out of the pedestrian bridges around the monument but the skytrain station was not closed yet.

1pm, it was reported that soliders manged to take hold of all corners of the Din Daeng triangle and the red-shirted protesters backed towards Rajaparop Road. Twenty people were reported to be injured from the clash there.

At 12.15pm, an explosive sound is heard followed by smokes from a public park near the Victory Monument, where there are only the red-shirted protesterd.

While soliders continue to push the protesters out of Din Daeng area towards the Victory Monument direction, the demonstrators set on fire a bus that was parked in the middle of the road.

12.10pm : soldiers continue to clash with the red-shirted protesters at the entrance to the Din Daeng elevated road. As the lastest, the protesters reportedly tried to drive a bus into the soldiers but the officers counter that with gunshots thus the bus crash into the bridge railing. There was no report yet if anyone was killed.

12.30pm PM's deputy secretary-general Panitan Wattanayagorn, on TV, ensures foreigners' safety and that the government is gaining control of the situation.

Red Shirt's D Station black out.

12.10pm Pheu Thai MPs threaten to mobilise more people to join protesters if the government does not stop using weapons, open an urgent joint-meeting among MPs and the Senate.

12.03pm The gas truck is removed from King Power.

12.00pm Protesters burn a bus at Din Daeng Triangle. Gun shots were heard.

11.45am Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva addresses live on TV, denying death report in the morning. He added that 23 soldiers and 47 protesters were injured. Four soldiers suffered bullet wounds.

He calls on people to cooperate by filing information. He also tells people to be confident that the government is trying to restore order as soon as possible.

11.20am The director of Rajavithi Hospital insists Monday that no protester was killed during the crackdown at the Din Daeng Intersection early Monday.

10am Protesters park an LPG gas truck at King Power Shopping Mall.

9.50am Protesters confront and throw molotov cocktails (bottle bombs) at soldiers around Din Daeng Intersection while (the protesters) retreating to Din Daeng flats.

9.30am Weng Tojirakarn tells protesters to seize four buses and use them to block Orathai Bridge and Misakawan intersections.

8.45am Police beef up force from 200 to 300 officers to secure Democrat Party headquarters on speculation that protesters would raid the place. Police later ask reporters and cameramen to move away from the area for fear that they would be injured in a possible clash with protesters.

8am Protesters seize buses and use them to block Si Ayutthaya road. Some burn tyres at nearby intersections.

7.30am Protesters at the Royal Plaza round up 15 journalists, saying they reported unfairly. The group attempt to attack, forcing journalists to leave.

7.20am Deputy PM's Secretary-General Panitan Wattanayagorn tells a press conference Monday morning that some protesters were arrested, detained unharmed. Army Spokesman Col Sansern Kaewkamnerd said the protesters were detained at "proper place" without elaborating.

7.15am Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva sets up a committee to direct the implementation according to Emergency Decree, authorising the Supreme Commander as the director to fix emergencies and prohibiting blockade of any roads in Bangkok and other effective areas.

6.40am Protesters park 10-wheel gas truck on in-bound Vibhavadi-Rangsit road in Din Daeng Triangle area to prevent soldiers from coming in. Both directions of the road are closed.

Protesters drive truck fuelled by NGV gas into the compound. The truck uses several NGV cylinders and the protesters shouted that the flat residents should leave immediately, prompting speculation that the protesters would explode the gas tanks

6.00am : Army spokesman says soldiers fired tear gas at Din Daeng Intersection only after protesters threw molotov cocktails at them and tried to hit them with a bus.

4.30am : Red Shirt leader Jatuporn Promphan says another leader Arisman Pongruangrong had been bailed out.

4am : Anti-government protesters and military officers are injured as the government has employed a force to disperse the protest near Din Daeng Intersection in Bangkok. Gunshots were heard until 5.30am. Soldiers insisted they fired the shots to the air.

1.30am Three bombs are shot to Constitutional Court. One exploded while two did not. Police said the bombs could be M79 type.

-- The Nation 2009-04-12

[LawnGnome]

Thank you George. A very good summary.

[steven100]

This is my take ...

Logic response ... ( you cannot argue with common sense )

..... The Red shirts have shown complete disrespect for the law and therefore should be held accountable.

You can have a peacefull protest to get your point accross... but they had no intention of a peacefull protest ....

I was watching Aljazara TV this morning and the head huncho was just making excuse after excuse when asked why the government car was attacked ... why was the government building siezed .... he said the protesters were enraged ... Well if they are so enraged why not go home and tip a cold bucket of water over there heads to cool down....

These guys are breaking the law .. they deserve the punishment...good on the army for taking action against these protesters.

Also, I blame Taksin as part of the problem as he is enticing them to cause mayhem and revolt... he should be extradited and charged accordingly... Thats what happens in a democratic society...

What are most thais going to think of these protesters after seeing there actions on TV. ?? not hard to answer !!

IMO..

[pichai]

Also, I blame Taksin as part of the problem as he is enticing them to cause mayhem and revolt... he should be extradited and charged accordingly...

Last night the head of Bandit Thaksin already told his supporters that if the government use force he will return to lead the so called "The People's Revolution". Now, lets wait and see whether he will return to "SERVE HIS JAIL TERM".

[silverhawk_usa]

I have been watching and reading in shocked disbelief at the number of shots being reported "fired in the air", especially when the army could be seen firing randomly while running with no idea of the bullet trajectory. I also couldn't believe CNN reports of bullets being fired into the crowd.

Finally the Thai's have set the record straight on this;

He also says footage of soldiers aiming and firing at protesters could have misled the public, because the soldiers were only firing blank bullets.

[cougar52]

EXCUSE ME

Just a bit more B/S from the Military and the Government. As stated "The soldiers were firing BLANKs.

Now the only thing I have to say this, if you want to talk B/S at least edit the tapes that are shown on your own channel. ie. The bullet holes in the Taxi's the shot windows and tires, not to mention the close-up of one of the soldiers loading a fresh 20 round clip of LIVE ammo into his M-16, and charging the barrel.

Please do not insult my intelligence.

[asiawatcher]

The claims of the spokesperson at 4:45pm was the bullets they are using a called practice rounds with paper wads. Checking with a film industry armourer he said they are correct, they make the same noise as fired bullets, and they have a lot of 'dust' which is evident in all footage I have seen so far. But he also said the 'blanks' used in Thailand simply do not work and cannot be used in film work. So you can also bet the 'media' black out, such that it is - will continue as to truth. Right now they claimed there is only one protester who is in critical condition and the rest have been treated and released. Believe it or not...

PS - I also saw full ammo loads going into issued M16's

Edited April 13, 2009 by asiawatcher

[asiawatcher]

George perhaps you could add at 16:57 there are clips of crowds at Dindaeng applauding the soldiers as they advance to clear the rabble. Seems not all are supportive of burning buses and setting tyres alight. I wonder what the cost to the city will be and whether we will see someone charged for this and made to pay? I would doubt it despite hundreds of cameras recording the perpetrators.

[chowder]

EXCUSE ME

Just a bit more B/S from the Military and the Government. As stated "The soldiers were firing BLANKs.

Now the only thing I have to say this, if you want to talk B/S at least edit the tapes that are shown on your own channel. ie. The bullet holes in the Taxi's the shot windows and tires, not to mention the close-up of one of the soldiers loading a fresh 20 round clip of LIVE ammo into his M-16, and charging the barrel.

Please do not insult my intelligence.

no intelligence person would think like you, why on earth world they use live bullet, if some one happen to die, the government would be responsible for it, they are not that stupid.

[asiawatcher]

17:20 - BEC showing footage of a lady handing lunch boxes to the troops, men handing donations of cluster packs of water and the troops applauding them. There was also a lady handing single roses to each of the troops. Perhaps BEC 3 can share this footage with the criminal Thaksin to show him not all Thai's support him and his red shirt thugs. Nice work Thailand.

[cougar52]

EXCUSE ME

Just a bit more B/S from the Military and the Government. As stated "The soldiers were firing BLANKs.

Now the only thing I have to say this, if you want to talk B/S at least edit the tapes that are shown on your own channel. ie. The bullet holes in the Taxi's the shot windows and tires, not to mention the close-up of one of the soldiers loading a fresh 20 round clip of LIVE ammo into his M-16, and charging the barrel.

Please do not insult my intelligence.

no intelligence person would think like you, why on earth world they use live bullet, if some one happen to die, the government would be responsible for it, they are not that stupid.

Live TV showing live rounds and bullet holes in Taxi's with-in 60 or 70 meters !!!! Live rounds, but I guess I can't talk to you because you believe whatever you are told

[asiawatcher]

EXCUSE ME

Just a bit more B/S from the Military and the Government. As stated "The soldiers were firing BLANKs.

Now the only thing I have to say this, if you want to talk B/S at least edit the tapes that are shown on your own channel. ie. The bullet holes in the Taxi's the shot windows and tires, not to mention the close-up of one of the soldiers loading a fresh 20 round clip of LIVE ammo into his M-16, and charging the barrel.

Please do not insult my intelligence.

no intelligence person would think like you, why on earth world they use live bullet, if some one happen to die, the government would be responsible for it, they are not that stupid.

Live TV showing live rounds and bullet holes in Taxi's with-in 60 or 70 meters !!!! Live rounds, but I guess I can't talk to you because you believe whatever you are told

Well Cougar - if it was the same footage I saw - they were the stick on holes you see on about 10% of pickups and taxis around Thailand. Not real holes at all (green and yellow taxi I am referring to about 11:00 this morning) - I have seen no evidence of real bullets anywhere during this melee. And an update on the 'rounds' if they are using the paper wads (practise bullets), they incur the same damage as Paint Ball bullets, sting like hel_l but can also take out an eye so whilst not a 'kill' shot - would certainly have these red shirt cowards on the run

[mhatami]

Also, I blame Taksin as part of the problem as he is enticing them to cause mayhem and revolt... he should be extradited and charged accordingly...

Last night the head of Bandit Thaksin already told his supporters that if the government use force he will return to lead the so called "The People's Revolution". Now, lets wait and see whether he will return to "SERVE HIS JAIL TERM".

It so easy to hide behind people and expect to get what he wants after other have paid for it dearly.

This the way of dictatorial leaders and not democratic leaders

[h90]

Also, I blame Taksin as part of the problem as he is enticing them to cause mayhem and revolt... he should be extradited and charged accordingly...

Last night the head of Bandit Thaksin already told his supporters that if the government use force he will return to lead the so called "The People's Revolution". Now, lets wait and see whether he will return to "SERVE HIS JAIL TERM".

It so easy to hide behind people and expect to get what he wants after other have paid for it dearly.

This the way of dictatorial leaders and not democratic leaders

he'll have to learn what many farangs know already.....

Here you never get what you paid for.....

[Oberkommando]

As none of the firearms (M16s) are fitted with BFA's (blank firing adaptors) that are required to fire and cycle blank ammo I have to conclude that live rounds are being used.

Anyone even mildly familiar with assault weapon technology could only come to the same conclusion.

[LawnGnome]

As none of the firearms (M16s) are fitted with BFA's (blank firing adaptors) that are required to fire and cycle blank ammo I have to conclude that live rounds are being used.

Anyone even mildly familiar with assault weapon technology could only come to the same conclusion.

And yet no reports of any fatalities? Either they are great shots, or really bad shots? Or there is something else going on, that is perhaps beyond our ability to explain?

[Oberkommando]

As none of the firearms (M16s) are fitted with BFA's (blank firing adaptors) that are required to fire and cycle blank ammo I have to conclude that live rounds are being used.

Anyone even mildly familiar with assault weapon technology could only come to the same conclusion.

And yet no reports of any fatalities? Either they are great shots, or really bad shots? Or there is something else going on, that is perhaps beyond our ability to explain?

There have been reports of injuries due to gunshot wounds though.

The red-shirts are claiming there have been fatalities although no proof yet.

But back to my original point and that is blank rounds cannot cycle in an M16 without a BFA, and that's a fact. Not enough pressure to chamber the following round you see.

[Oberkommando]

From Bloopers.

Many firearms (including the M-16, M-60 and SLR) cannot fire on auto or semi-auto when using blanks. They can only fire once and then must be manually recocked.

The Reason:

When one of these weapons fires a bullet, expanding gases push the bullet out the barrel. As an opposite reaction, the gas also recocks the weapon. Without a bullet, there is nothing for the bullet to push against, so the next bullet is not loaded. To get around this, soldiers place a BFD (Blank Firing Device) on the end of the barrel (or replace the barrel for a M-60).

Some of the M16s I have seen being fired are loaded with full mags with no BFA and being fired repeatedly so must be firing live ammo.

Edited April 13, 2009 by Oberkommando

[LawnGnome]

As none of the firearms (M16s) are fitted with BFA's (blank firing adaptors) that are required to fire and cycle blank ammo I have to conclude that live rounds are being used.

Anyone even mildly familiar with assault weapon technology could only come to the same conclusion.

And yet no reports of any fatalities? Either they are great shots, or really bad shots? Or there is something else going on, that is perhaps beyond our ability to explain?

There have been reports of injuries due to gunshot wounds though.

The red-shirts are claiming there have been fatalities although no proof yet.

But back to my original point and that is blank rounds cannot cycle in an M16 without a BFA, and that's a fact. Not enough pressure to chamber the following round you see.

I accept your explanation, as I have no knowledge of those things. My question is, why are no media (international CNN, BBC, AJ) or local, reporting any fatalies? Almost every image today has been broadcast live on local tv.

[passingby]

So how many reds are dead as witnessed by the reporters who are right there with the soldiers ?

[cougar52]

This is another statement from the one that George posted.

An army spokesman, Col Sunsern Kaewkumnerd, said about 400 soldiers had moved against some 300 protesters.

He accused protesters of driving a car at the soldiers and said troops had first fired into the air in response to tear gas and smoke bombs thrown at them by protesters.

The soldiers then fired live rounds, he said.

Thank you for your post Ober........

Also the reporter from the Strait Times stated there were fatalities with the army taking the dead away.

But you can not debate it because never happened Someday, evidence just may find its way to the front.

[silverhawk_usa]

Yeah, I am not an expert either, but firing live rounds point blank into the crowds would result in a body count that one cannot easily hide from the media or the people. There would also be property damage from the rounds that are being sprayed around randomly or missing their target. I guess it's wait and see and hope it is not happening.

[mrparanoid]

As none of the firearms (M16s) are fitted with BFA's (blank firing adaptors) that are required to fire and cycle blank ammo I have to conclude that live rounds are being used.

Anyone even mildly familiar with assault weapon technology could only come to the same conclusion.

Finally someone who knows what he is talking about.. I agree 100% ..Good post Ober..

Live rounds

M16 without BFA adaptor

M16 without BFA adaptor

M16 with BFA adaptor

Edited April 13, 2009 by mrparanoid

[asiawatcher]

Correct - No yellow gas canisters attached to any of the rifles I saw firing. No gas no reload - certainly not firing blanks. So how do we explain firing levelled at the crowd - no question it was not in the air? And no casualties? The mystery deepens...

[passingby]

This is another statement from the one that George posted.

An army spokesman, Col Sunsern Kaewkumnerd, said about 400 soldiers had moved against some 300 protesters.

He accused protesters of driving a car at the soldiers and said troops had first fired into the air in response to tear gas and smoke bombs thrown at them by protesters.

The soldiers then fired live rounds, he said.

Thank you for your post Ober........

Also the reporter from the Strait Times stated there were fatalities with the army taking the dead away.

But you can not debate it because never happened Someday, evidence just may find its way to the front.

Where did you see this ?

[h90]

From Bloopers.

Many firearms (including the M-16, M-60 and SLR) cannot fire on auto or semi-auto when using blanks. They can only fire once and then must be manually recocked.

The Reason:

When one of these weapons fires a bullet, expanding gases push the bullet out the barrel. As an opposite reaction, the gas also recocks the weapon. Without a bullet, there is nothing for the bullet to push against, so the next bullet is not loaded. To get around this, soldiers place a BFD (Blank Firing Device) on the end of the barrel (or replace the barrel for a M-60).

Some of the M16s I have seen being fired are loaded with full mags with no BFA and being fired repeatedly so must be firing live ammo.

I don't know the M16, but on the STG-72 it is a small screw which you wouldn't recognize on a photo.

[cougar52]

Here is spent rounds and holes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCU4M

This is where the previous statement came from; http://bangkokpundit.blogspot.com/

and here http://thaireporter.blog.co.uk/2009/04/13/...-crowd-5935754/

[Ulysses G.]

From Bloopers.

Many firearms (including the M-16, M-60 and SLR) cannot fire on auto or semi-auto when using blanks. They can only fire once and then must be manually recocked.

The Reason:

When one of these weapons fires a bullet, expanding gases push the bullet out the barrel. As an opposite reaction, the gas also recocks the weapon. Without a bullet, there is nothing for the bullet to push against, so the next bullet is not loaded. To get around this, soldiers place a BFD (Blank Firing Device) on the end of the barrel (or replace the barrel for a M-60).

Some of the M16s I have seen being fired are loaded with full mags with no BFA and being fired repeatedly so must be firing live ammo.

I don't know the M16, but on the STG-72 it is a small screw which you wouldn't recognize on a photo.

It is 30 years since I used the M16 with blanks, but the BFA back then looked pretty much like they do now and they are hard to miss!

[mrparanoid]

This is from the official manual..

BFA blank

M16 cartridge

Edited April 13, 2009 by mrparanoid

[Merangue]

So what we are saying is that anyone stating they are only firing blanks or these paper bullets, are doing one of two things.

Talking about something of which they have no knowledge.

Or...............

Lying.

Correct?