Arrest Warrants Issued For 14 Red Shirt Leaders And Thaksin

[Thai at Heart]

Khun Surachai is so funny. People said the reds are communists so he just dressed communistly. I like him a lot. I stayed lates many time in the past to wait for his speech.

Another Communist at the red meeting at Sanam Luang on 25th April?

Many new faces on the red stage that night. They can never shut us up. We love democracy and we love Khun Thaksin.

Koo,

Do you actually know what "Communism" is..? Have you ever studied Marx' works? If not <deleted>. I support Communism, i have been member in a communist party before, and inside i will always be a communist regardless how the economy around me functions.

However Thaksin and his red plague are about as far away from anything "communist" as the Earth is from Andromeda. Thaksin is a wannabe dictator obsessed with power and money (and hence the exact, 180 degree, opposite of a communist) and his followers are people who, like him, don't care for anything but money - people who would kill their neighbour for 200 Baht.

If you love democracy you can't love a person who himself said "Democracy is not my priority" © T. Shinawatra.

Regards.....

Thanh

Indeed they are extremely odd bedfellows. But as much as they are communist, they are absolutely anti-establishment. I will never forget meeting a retired army man up country, who with great pride told me he had been responsible for getting rid of thousands of communists.

These crack downs were going on when everyone was terrified that communism would envelop Thailand. It went so far that as a rule today, farmers are left to fend alone instead of the protection and bargaining power of a collective because it ideologically has been drummed into the agriculture ministry that it creates communism. So the result is that there are isolated villages producing foodstuffs which are to all intents and purposes a commune, but the farmers are unable or have been actively dissuaded from acting as a group.

Wouldn't it be good for the farmers if the farmers in a given changwat collectively negotiated they fertiliser requirements and sold their food to the exporters at a changwat level instead of one by one? It would just the tiniest bit communist, but it would give them a lot more power over the purchasers.

I am not a communist, but with hand to mouth living in the villages, a little bit of commune"ism" would benefit the farmers massively and reduce the power of the buyers from Bangkok. I don't know what the communist people said at these rallies, but this is one of the strange ideological problems that Thailand faces in the countryside.

[sriracha john]

Red-shirt Leader in Lampang Surrenders

A third red-shirt leader in Lampang province has turned himself in to local police. He denied all charges against him and was released on bail.

Nutchai Insai, a leader of the Democratic Alliance against Dictatorship in Lampang province and the owner of a local radio station, arrived at the Lampang police station along with a number of red-shirt supporters. He had been on the run for nearly a month after an arrest warrant was issued for him.

Nutchai faces a number of charges, including creating public disorder, assault and threatening assault, blocking public roadways, and illegal possession of firearms and ammunition.

He denied all charges against him and was released on 100,000 baht bail.

Nutchai was the last of three red-shirt leaders in Lampang to report to police after being issued an arrest warrant.

-- Tan Network 2009-04-29

[sriracha john]

Pheu Thai Party MP and Red Shirt Leader Jatuporn Promphan

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vote today on whether Jatuporn should get immunity

MPs will vote today on whether Pheu Thai Party MP Jatuporn Promphan should be allowed to use his parliamentary immunity to avoid arrest over charges of causing chaos earlier this month.

Jatuporn has been avoiding arrest by saying he is immune until the end of the parliamentary session. However, the police have asked House Speaker Chai Chidchob that they be allowed to arrest Jatuporn and that Pheu Thai Party MPs discuss the issue.

Jatuporn said dared his Party MPs not to protect him so he could say the majority of the MPs were using double standards.

So far, the House has not discussed what would happen if the Democrats, including MP Somkiat Pongpaiboon, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, and Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban were to face charges, he said.

"I won't ask the opposition MPs to vote for me. If the vote result means I cannot use the immunity, I will turn myself in. I can use my position as an MP to bail myself out," he said.

Jatuporn said the red-shirt rally planned next week would be constitutional and peaceful, that there would be no mobilisation or provocation - all of which are conditions set for the protest leaders' bail.

However, he said, the People's Alliance for Democracy were allowed to get back on stage even when their leaders were out on bail, so the police would need to clarify its standards.

Meanwhile, Somkiat said the Democrats had on Tuesday agreed to let each MP decide whether Jatuporn should be allowed to use immunity.

He said Jatuporn should be responsible for his own movements instead of having the Parliament make the decision. After all, he is being charged for what he did outside the Parliament, which was clearly aimed at toppling the government, he added.

"Jatuporn doesn't need to use me as an example. It all depends on a person's conscience and sense of responsibility, especially when that person is honourable. I have faced criminal charges before so I understand that it was my personal responsibility when I was leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy. When I faced the charges, I was ready to defend myself and did not ask for parliamentary immunity," Somkiat said.

The Democrat MP was co-leader of the anti-Thaksin Shinawatra movement.

-- The Nation 2009-04-30

[sriracha john]

Red-shirt Leader Vows to Follow Parliament's Decision on MP Privilege

Pheu Thai Party MP and red-shirt leader, Jatupoorn Promphan, will follow the mandate issued by MPs, who will vote on whether the Pheu Thai Party MP should be allowed to use his parliamentary immunity to avoid arrest over the charges of causing chaos earlier this month.

Jatupoorn Promphan, MP from the Pheu Thai Party, is one of the Democratic Alliance against Dictatorship, or DAAD, leaders charged with inciting unrest during the riots that took place in Bangkok on April 13-14.

He has been avoiding arrest, insisting that he was immune until the end of the parliamentary session.

The Parliament will vote on whether Jatuporn should be held legally responsible for his actions and investigated for causing severe chaos during Songkran festival. Jatuporn said that he would follow through on his commitment and turn himself in if the Parliament voted not to give him parliamentary immunity.

He asked Party MPs not to protect him so that he could demonstrate that the enforcement of MP's immunity is using double standard.

Meanwhile, Theptai Senpong, spokesman for Democrat leader Abhisit Vejjajiva, said that he asked Jatuporn to showed his spirit in using his special privilege to avoid the arrest.

He also opposed the statement from ex-premier Thasin Shinnawatra that his statement was far from the truth and comparing it with the actions of the PM.

He added that the former PM’s announcement was part of the Red-shirt plan to re-instate the protest. He said the party was consulting with a lawyer before filing charge againt ex-premier Thaksin.

-- Tan Network 2009-04-30

[webfact]

Red-shirt Leader Vows to Follow Parliament's Decision on MP Privilege

-- Tan Network 2009-04-30

lets wait and see, chai yen yen, chai yen yen... TiT

[hammered]

Khun Surachai is so funny. People said the reds are communists so he just dressed communistly. I like him a lot. I stayed lates many time in the past to wait for his speech.

Another Communist at the red meeting at Sanam Luang on 25th April?

Many new faces on the red stage that night. They can never shut us up. We love democracy and we love Khun Thaksin.

Koo,

Do you actually know what "Communism" is..? Have you ever studied Marx' works? If not <deleted>. I support Communism, i have been member in a communist party before, and inside i will always be a communist regardless how the economy around me functions.

However Thaksin and his red plague are about as far away from anything "communist" as the Earth is from Andromeda. Thaksin is a wannabe dictator obsessed with power and money (and hence the exact, 180 degree, opposite of a communist) and his followers are people who, like him, don't care for anything but money - people who would kill their neighbour for 200 Baht.

If you love democracy you can't love a person who himself said "Democracy is not my priority" © T. Shinawatra.

Regards.....

Thanh

Indeed they are extremely odd bedfellows. But as much as they are communist, they are absolutely anti-establishment. I will never forget meeting a retired army man up country, who with great pride told me he had been responsible for getting rid of thousands of communists.

These crack downs were going on when everyone was terrified that communism would envelop Thailand. It went so far that as a rule today, farmers are left to fend alone instead of the protection and bargaining power of a collective because it ideologically has been drummed into the agriculture ministry that it creates communism. So the result is that there are isolated villages producing foodstuffs which are to all intents and purposes a commune, but the farmers are unable or have been actively dissuaded from acting as a group.

Wouldn't it be good for the farmers if the farmers in a given changwat collectively negotiated they fertiliser requirements and sold their food to the exporters at a changwat level instead of one by one? It would just the tiniest bit communist, but it would give them a lot more power over the purchasers.

I am not a communist, but with hand to mouth living in the villages, a little bit of commune"ism" would benefit the farmers massively and reduce the power of the buyers from Bangkok. I don't know what the communist people said at these rallies, but this is one of the strange ideological problems that Thailand faces in the countryside.

Korn in the Post actually advocated encouraging collectivism among farmers in the North and Norht East as a way to increase their lot in life in a piece he wrote while in opposition. It is more widespread in the South and increases bargaining power and efficiency. I do wonder though if the politicans of ther N and NE would like it as collectivism impacts on the middle man which would affect the local feudal masters in these regions. Another reason apart from communist ideas that it would be opposed.

[Thai at Heart]

Korn in the Post actually advocated encouraging collectivism among farmers in the North and Norht East as a way to increase their lot in life in a piece he wrote while in opposition. It is more widespread in the South and increases bargaining power and efficiency. I do wonder though if the politicans of ther N and NE would like it as collectivism impacts on the middle man which would affect the local feudal masters in these regions. Another reason apart from communist ideas that it would be opposed.

I know a lot more about the situation in Isaan than down South. The crackdowns up here on insurgency were very harsh and villages were turned against communism with the promise of funds for development. Oh the irony. It always surprised me when driving through some of these villages 10 years ago why some were in so much better condition than others and that was what was explained to me at least.

Of course the exporters would have a huge amount to lose if it was collectivised, and I am not for one second suggesting that Thaksin was about to allow or encourage it to happen. However, it would be so obviously advantageous to the little man to use his bargaining power, but for donkeys years the agriculture ministry was against it up there and the status quo has remained pretty much that way. They don't want farmers in Isaan to group together. The excise dept is completely in the pocket of the exporters.

Would love to see the link to Korn's article if you have it. Would be the first time I ever heard a Thai politician with a grass roots understanding of the real issues in agriculture.

[Koo82]

Koo,

Do you actually know what "Communism" is..? Have you ever studied Marx' works? If not <deleted>. I support Communism, i have been member in a communist party before, and inside i will always be a communist regardless how the economy around me functions.

However Thaksin and his red plague are about as far away from anything "communist" as the Earth is from Andromeda. Thaksin is a wannabe dictator obsessed with power and money (and hence the exact, 180 degree, opposite of a communist) and his followers are people who, like him, don't care for anything but money - people who would kill their neighbour for 200 Baht.

If you love democracy you can't love a person who himself said "Democracy is not my priority" © T. Shinawatra.

Regards.....

Thanh

Thanh,

What do you feel if I say Communists fight for 200 Baht/day? It is very unfair to make such a comment. How do you think they pay the reds to protest? To transfer into bank accounts? To give at the protest ground? They have taken videos night and day to spot out what the reds gossip (whether they can arrest the reds for criticizing...) and whether the reds bring in weapons. They have people wearing reds to be spy. We were told 400 fake reds were sent in to be spy. They are easy to spot. They don't laugh when we do. They don't cheer when we do. They blame soldiers inside GH. Our standard is we don't blame police and soldiers hoping they don't clear us when they are ordered.

Nuttawut said that his ex-colleague (he was Spokesman or something for Khun Somchai) who still works now in the Government House came to the reds and pretended to be a red wearing red and started "I received 500 B a day. What about you? How much do they pay you so we can compare?" After so many attempts and after 4 days, they concluded "We have to admit that the reds come themselves real".

In the meetings, we collect donation for 100 B, 200 B, 10 boxes of rice, 5 face towels... We welcome all.

As for me, after I take out all expenses in a year, my husband and I get net about 1 to 3 million Baht per year. We only seriously work about 10 hours a week. Most of the time we are free. In order to protest at Bangkok, we must drive 5 to 6 hours each way. Do you think we wake up at 5 to drive to Bangkok, sit under super hot sun, on a piece of newspaper, all wet by sweat, eat 20 Baht rice box, drink 10 baht Truth Today water, use limited dirty toilets because they don’t give us like they gave to PAD, and stay until dark shaking the foot clapper, drive home 5 to 6 hours, be at home around 1 or 2 in the morning for 200 Baht?

To be honest, I don't know what Communist is, so I laugh when people said the reds, we, are Communists, and I laugh when seeing some reds wear Communist clothes.

But I guess it's simple like this: Communist people fought for liberty, to beat those who come to their countries to rule. Here we often hear stupid story like "Communists cut people's necks". I think it's so childish to make such a comment. If someone comes to my country, I would cut their necks when I see them. Unfortunately we don't have this incident for so long since the time Burma won us. I've heard we lost to Burma because we fought internally. Same as now that we lose in economy because we fight with ourselves instead of being together.

But it's not the yellows are fighting with the reds. We don't consider Sondhi and his yellows our enemy. We fight with those behind Abhisit who always make coups when they're not happy with us. Abhisit is not our main target.

[webfact]

Koo,

Do you actually know what "Communism" is..? Have you ever studied Marx' works? If not <deleted>. I support Communism, i have been member in a communist party before, and inside i will always be a communist regardless how the economy around me functions.

However Thaksin and his red plague are about as far away from anything "communist" as the Earth is from Andromeda. Thaksin is a wannabe dictator obsessed with power and money (and hence the exact, 180 degree, opposite of a communist) and his followers are people who, like him, don't care for anything but money - people who would kill their neighbour for 200 Baht.

If you love democracy you can't love a person who himself said "Democracy is not my priority" © T. Shinawatra.

Regards.....

Thanh

Thanh,

What do you feel if I say Communists fight for 200 Baht/day? It is very unfair to make such a comment. How do you think they pay the reds to protest? To transfer into bank accounts? To give at the protest ground? They have taken videos night and day to spot out what the reds gossip (whether they can arrest the reds for criticizing...) and whether the reds bring in weapons. They have people wearing reds to be spy. We were told 400 fake reds were sent in to be spy. They are easy to spot. They don't laugh when we do. They don't cheer when we do. They blame soldiers inside GH. Our standard is we don't blame police and soldiers hoping they don't clear us when they are ordered.

Nuttawut said that his ex-colleague (he was Spokesman or something for Khun Somchai) who still works now in the Government House came to the reds and pretended to be a red wearing red and started "I received 500 B a day. What about you? How much do they pay you so we can compare?" After so many attempts and after 4 days, they concluded "We have to admit that the reds come themselves real".

In the meetings, we collect donation for 100 B, 200 B, 10 boxes of rice, 5 face towels... We welcome all.

As for me, after I take out all expenses in a year, my husband and I get net about 1 to 3 million Baht per year. We only seriously work about 10 hours a week. Most of the time we are free. In order to protest at Bangkok, we must drive 5 to 6 hours each way. Do you think we wake up at 5 to drive to Bangkok, sit under super hot sun, on a piece of newspaper, all wet by sweat, eat 20 Baht rice box, drink 10 baht Truth Today water, use limited dirty toilets because they don’t give us like they gave to PAD, and stay until dark shaking the foot clapper, drive home 5 to 6 hours, be at home around 1 or 2 in the morning for 200 Baht?

To be honest, I don't know what Communist is, so I laugh when people said the reds, we, are Communists, and I laugh when seeing some reds wear Communist clothes.

But I guess it's simple like this: Communist people fought for liberty, to beat those who come to their countries to rule. Here we often hear stupid story like "Communists cut people's necks". I think it's so childish to make such a comment. If someone comes to my country, I would cut their necks when I see them. Unfortunately we don't have this incident for so long since the time Burma won us. I've heard we lost to Burma because we fought internally. Same as now that we lose in economy because we fight with ourselves instead of being together.

But it's not the yellows are fighting with the reds. We don't consider Sondhi and his yellows our enemy. We fight with those behind Abhisit who always make coups when they're not happy with us. Abhisit is not our main target.

Spot on! Now it becomes very interesting!

Edited April 30, 2009 by webfact

[Koo82]

people who, like him, don't care for anything but money - people who would kill their neighbour for 200 Baht.

Let's be fair to the reds.

Many reds are known from the North and Isaan.

Many yellows are known from the South.

Which area is known for fighting, killing and bombing more?

During the high time PAD protested, we heard each day what they did, they blocked roads, they blocked Government House, they blocked Parliament House, one dead person was found at Don Muang... Just too many to list.

And they are still free because they have the supports we don't have. Many are holding high positions under Abhisit. One guy is Foreign Minister. Somkiat is a Democrat Party MP.

But we are charged for throwing stones to the car after the day they voted for Abhisit.

We are charged on Monday for throwing eggs and slippers on Saturday. 3 days!

Our leader is caught without asking him to report to police first (Arisaman). Our leaders are kept in separate places instead of the police station where the incident took place.

When you protest, what do you want most?

1 - the target to go down

2 - as many people to join as possible to have the pressure

So, what is the reason we killed 2 people at Nang Lerng?

What do we get from doing it? To have our names on every newspaper and every website as killers? To let Thais and everybody hate us? To let them take revenge on us after we kill their people? To let the current reds stop going with us thinking we are killers?

It just doesn't make sense.

[TAWP]

Let's be fair to the reds.

Many reds are known from the North and Isaan.

Many yellows are known from the South.

Which area is known for fighting, killing and bombing more?

Wait, what?

Yes, who bomb and kill more? Tell me.

The score so far...

[animatic]

Koo,

Do you actually know what "Communism" is..? Have you ever studied Marx' works? If not <deleted>. I support Communism, i have been member in a communist party before, and inside i will always be a communist regardless how the economy around me functions.

However Thaksin and his red plague are about as far away from anything "communist" as the Earth is from Andromeda. Thaksin is a wannabe dictator obsessed with power and money (and hence the exact, 180 degree, opposite of a communist) and his followers are people who, like him, don't care for anything but money - people who would kill their neighbour for 200 Baht.

If you love democracy you can't love a person who himself said "Democracy is not my priority" © T. Shinawatra.

Regards.....

Thanh

Thanh,

What do you feel if I say Communists fight for 200 Baht/day?

....... edit

To be honest, I don't know what Communist is, so I laugh when people said the reds, we, are Communists, and I laugh when seeing some reds wear Communist clothes.

But I guess it's simple like this: Communist people fought for liberty, to beat those who come to their countries to rule. Here we often hear stupid story like "Communists cut people's necks". I think it's so childish to make such a comment. If someone comes to my country, I would cut their necks when I see them. Unfortunately we don't have this incident for so long since the time Burma won us. I've heard we lost to Burma because we fought internally. Same as now that we lose in economy because we fight with ourselves instead of being together.

But it's not the yellows are fighting with the reds. We don't consider Sondhi and his yellows our enemy. We fight with those behind Abhisit who always make coups when they're not happy with us. Abhisit is not our main target.

Koo your country borders a country with one of the worst cases of Communism gone wrong on the planet.

Cambodia, two governments ago, of you can call it actual governance at that time... Most ca NOT.

Here is some elightenment for you.

From Yale Universities, one of the most respected in the USA and world.

http://www.yale.edu/gsp/publications/slaughter.html

General info on Khmer Rouge Communists and life under them

http://countrystudies.us/cambodia/30.htm

http://countrystudies.us/cambodia/25.htm

http://countrystudies.us/cambodia/27.htm

http://countrystudies.us/cambodia/28.htm

The above gives a good idea why there was such anti-Communist ferver in Thailand then and stll today.

A girl centric discussion of George Orwell and his book Animal Farm

http://www.girlposse.com/cgi-bin/stories/display.cgi?id=137

as discussed:

The seven basic rules

1. Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.

2. Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.

3. No animal shall wear clothes.

4. No animal shall sleep in a bed with sheets.

5. No animal shall drink alcohol in excess.

6. No animal shall kill any other animal without cause.

7. All animals are equal.

http://www.ballot.com/hotwire/6454-communi...-socialism.html

Communism is basically a more extreme form of Socialism. Communists believe that all property should be owned by the government on behalf of the people. In Commmunism everyone should produce according to their capability and receive according to their needs. Communism is almost universally regarded as being unworkable.

Socialism, commonly confused with Communism, is the belief that the state has a responsibility to reduce wealth disparity between people and prevent any citizen suffering neglect. It is extremely inefficient and unfair but, unlike Communism, it can continue operating indefinitely.

------------------------------------------------

Communism is an economic theory only. Socialism is a political theory. In exactly the same way that Capitalsim is strictly an economic theory and Liberalism is a political theory.

Communism gives economic control to the government.

Socialism gives political control to the government

Capitalism gives economic control to the individual

Liberalism gives political control to the individual

People very, VERY often misuse the word Liberalism in the US, and in the US alone. The word is misused as a synonim for socialism, which is actually correctly known as its exact opposite in every other place on earth. The misuse is so common that if you are American you may have to adapt to using it that way in order to communicate.

What the rest of the world calls liberalism is called libertarianism in the US as a way for its followers to not be incorrectly associated with socialists - their exact opposite.

http://jaycan.wordpress.com/2009/03/23/the...-the-communist/

Communism is liberation for the proletariat and eventual of classes but more often than not has resulted in the exact opposite - the oppression of the proletariat and reinforcement of class divide.

This leads into my main point – the grand fallacy of the so called “communist states,” parties and communists in general

is the belief that it is up to them to create revolution; it is them that will be the cause and effect of revolution. To these

self appointed leaders of the proletarian class, it is their direct action that their revolution will be contingent on.

Whether the party is of Leninism, Maoism, Trotskyism, Guevaraism, Stalinism, Titoism or Hoxhaism persuasion, they all

have this in common – it is their forceful conviction that it is their interpretation and version of communism that will lead the way,

illuminate the path if you will and be the basis for revolution.

They lay hold a monopoly on the theories of Marxism and each act, each thought is filtered through their respective, distorted lenses.

They are convinced they possess absolute, objective truth within their grasp. Their restrictive program is the program for all.

Their agendas and referendums are equal to the agendas and referendums of the proletariat. As naïve and misguided sects

of Christianity believe one must pass through their channels to taste salvation, these sects of Marxism behave in much the

same manner with the proletariat. It is only through their gates that paradise will be attained.

How misguided!

-----------------------------------------

Communism Quotes

* "Communism is like prohibition: it is a good idea, but it won't work."

By: Will Rogers

Communism Quotes

* "We are the party of all labor. The whole earth shall be ours to share. And every race and craft our neighbor. No idle class shall linger there like vultures on the wealth we render from field and factory, mill and mine. Tomorrow's sun will rise in splendor and light us till the end of time."

By: Eugene Pottier

Communism Quotes

* "The "Communism" of the English intellectual is something explicable enough. It is the patriotism of the deracinated."

By: George Orwell

Communism Quotes

* "In the end we beat them with Levi jeans.

Seventy-two years of Communist indoctrination and propaganda was drowned out by a three-ounce Sony Walkman.

A huge totalitarian system has been brought to its knees because nobody wants to wear Bulgarian shoes.

Now they're lunch, and we're number one on the planet."

By: P. J. O'Rourke

Communism Quotes

* "Under socialism, all will govern in turn and will soon become accustomed to no one governing."

By: Vladimir Ilyich Lenin

Communism Quotes

* "I have no concern with any economic criticisms of the communist system; I cannot inquire into whether the abolition of private property is expedient or advantageous. But I am able to recognize that the psychological premises on which the system is based are an untenable illusion. In abolishing private property we deprive the human love of aggression of one of its instruments... But we have in no way altered the differences in power and influence which are misused by aggressiveness."

By: Sigmund Freud

Communism Quotes

* "You'll see certain Pythagorean people whose belief in communism of property goes to such lengths that they pick up anything lying about unguarded, and make off with it without a qualm of conscience as if it had come to them by law."

By: Desiderius Erasmus

Communism Quotes

* "What is a Communist? One who hath yearnings For equal division of unequal earnings. Idler or bungler, or both, he is willing To fork out his copper and pocket a shilling."

By: Elliott, Ebenezer

Communism Quotes

* "Our fear that Communism might some day take over most of the world blinds us to the fact that anti-communism already has."

By: Unknown

Communism Quotes

* "I am a Marxist... of the Groucho tendency."

By: Unknown

Communism Quotes

* "All I know is I'm not a Marxist."

By: Marx, Karl

Communism Quotes

* "When we hang the capitalists they will sell us the rope we use."

By: Stalin, Joseph

Communism Quotes

* "Communists are people who fancied that they had an unhappy childhood."

By: Stein, Gertrude

Communism Quotes

* "I am a communist because I believe that the Communist idea is a state form of Christianity."

By: Zhuravlyov, Alexander

Communism Quotes

* "There are only two sorts of people in life you can trust -- good Christians and good Communists."

By: Slovo, Joe

Edited April 30, 2009 by animatic

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi.

Koo, i found out long time ago that it is impossible to discuss things on a logical basis with someone who obviously has been brain washed. You red supporters shout "we love democracy" while all you want is to re-instate a fugitive criminal who is as undemocratic as possible, one who did win only one of three claimed elections and bought the other two (that's NOT democracy, that's election fraud!) and was brought down with a coup because he himself had changed the laws to make it pretty much impossible to get rid of him in any legal (or democratic) way.

If you want to protest, feel free to do so all day long, but keep the stones where they are, keep the guns where they are, do NOT attack cars or people. Protesting = marching through the streets or occupy places (including building!) holding up protest banners with your motto and message on them, NOT violently smashing up cars or hijacking buses.

If you say your red group was "invaded by the yellow spies" so the yellows have the exact same right to say "the yellow protest was invaded by the red spies" and The Airport Blockade was actually caused by reds in disguise.

I don't know who was paid and by which means but i DO know (from my family respectively that of my boyfriend) that money was offered very publicly - via a PA system at a market in Chiang Mai. "Come with us to Bangkok, we pay 200 Baht per day" was the message, at another place it was even 500 Baht.

And yes, as long as your red mob kills people you deserve to be all over the newspapers as the killers THAT YOU ARE. Don't kill and nobody will call you a killer.

So, the yellows are free and the reds are in jail? Really? Get your facts straight. Everyone has gotten out on bail. Some are still hiding. Cowards. And the master coward is in Nicaragua because even Dubai doesn't like him anymore. Why does your dear leader not return to support you reds? Because he doesn't give a sh!t about you. All he cares for is his MONEY.

Oh, and if you are too hi-so to eat 20-Baht-rice and dring "Truth Today" water then don't bother talking to me any longer. I can't stand hi-so people. Be happy to make 2-3 Million per year working 10 hours per week, i work 48+ hours per week and make 336k per year and am NOT too fine to eat 20-Baht-rice at the street side.

And nope, i won't join your protest to better my income. Because i DO love democracy - not dictatorship. Communism = the purest form of democracy.

Best regards.....

Thanh

[Plus]

To be honest, I don't know what Communist is, so I laugh when people said the reds, we, are Communists, and I laugh when seeing some reds wear Communist clothes.

But I guess it's simple like this: Communist people fought for liberty, to beat those who come to their countries to rule.

Just look at this line from Koo.

How can you blame people for thinking that reds are stupid and ignorant lot?

Yeah, I know, we can't paint them with the same brush bla bla bla.

[Samuian]

Korn in the Post actually advocated encouraging collectivism among farmers in the North and Norht East as a way to increase their lot in life in a piece he wrote while in opposition. It is more widespread in the South and increases bargaining power and efficiency. I do wonder though if the politicans of ther N and NE would like it as collectivism impacts on the middle man which would affect the local feudal masters in these regions. Another reason apart from communist ideas that it would be opposed.

I know a lot more about the situation in Isaan than down South. The crackdowns up here on insurgency were very harsh and villages were turned against communism with the promise of funds for development. Oh the irony. It always surprised me when driving through some of these villages 10 years ago why some were in so much better condition than others and that was what was explained to me at least.

Of course the exporters would have a huge amount to lose if it was collectivised, and I am not for one second suggesting that Thaksin was about to allow or encourage it to happen. However, it would be so obviously advantageous to the little man to use his bargaining power, but for donkeys years the agriculture ministry was against it up there and the status quo has remained pretty much that way. They don't want farmers in Isaan to group together. The excise dept is completely in the pocket of the exporters.

Would love to see the link to Korn's article if you have it. Would be the first time I ever heard a Thai politician with a grass roots understanding of the real issues in agriculture.

"Cold war era"?

concerning that is that the PULO ( Pattani Uinted Liberation Organization)

was Communist too - before they turned Jihads...

For proper and transparent export system the farmers need proper state protection,

no communism or collectives!

Here we go again - full circle - back to the "puu Yai" system it needs to be abolished!

The influence of the influentials, needs to be cut back!

Making a "killing" for nothing, just because of status...

[animatic]

Well the Cold War was pretty hot and heavey down in SE. Asia back then.

Nothing theoretical at all.

[Sao Jiang Mai]

I was being facetious this morning when I said Koo made me chuckle. To be honest Koo scares the hel_l out of me. It is this blind ignorance and rigidity in opinion that is a very dangerous factor in Thai politics. I admit that Koo makes some good points - occasionally - but Koo never admits anything outside his/her blinkers. Koo, please try to be sensible and realise that there are other opinions that matter and have merit. Just try, just once, to imagine that not everyone else is a liar. Balance your views out a bit, read a variety of sources and independently make your decision. But this is not a black and white issue and the fact that you are making it into one is very very dangerous. Seriously Koo, you are an extremist and there is no place for that in Thailand in these volatile times.

[Koo82]

Thank you animatic and thank you people for your lessons. I'll listen to our red radio via internet. They block all our websites. This radio website has to be changed many times after being blocked. Someone said we may have DStation back in 2 weeks as they may do it from Hong Kong.

Democracy is to respect the majority.

Democracy is to live together peacefully when you have different political views.

[Thai at Heart]

Korn in the Post actually advocated encouraging collectivism among farmers in the North and Norht East as a way to increase their lot in life in a piece he wrote while in opposition. It is more widespread in the South and increases bargaining power and efficiency. I do wonder though if the politicans of ther N and NE would like it as collectivism impacts on the middle man which would affect the local feudal masters in these regions. Another reason apart from communist ideas that it would be opposed.

I know a lot more about the situation in Isaan than down South. The crackdowns up here on insurgency were very harsh and villages were turned against communism with the promise of funds for development. Oh the irony. It always surprised me when driving through some of these villages 10 years ago why some were in so much better condition than others and that was what was explained to me at least.

Of course the exporters would have a huge amount to lose if it was collectivised, and I am not for one second suggesting that Thaksin was about to allow or encourage it to happen. However, it would be so obviously advantageous to the little man to use his bargaining power, but for donkeys years the agriculture ministry was against it up there and the status quo has remained pretty much that way. They don't want farmers in Isaan to group together. The excise dept is completely in the pocket of the exporters.

Would love to see the link to Korn's article if you have it. Would be the first time I ever heard a Thai politician with a grass roots understanding of the real issues in agriculture.

"Cold war era"?

concerning that is that the PULO ( Pattani Uinted Liberation Organization)

was Communist too - before they turned Jihads...

For proper and transparent export system the farmers need proper state protection,

no communism or collectives!

Here we go again - full circle - back to the "puu Yai" system it needs to be abolished!

The influence of the influentials, needs to be cut back!

Making a "killing" for nothing, just because of status...

Era wise, it was when everything got very hot under the collar next door. But it was part of policy to support the villages that were anti-commie and give them funding for improvements to entice villagers in pro-commie areas to stand up against any insurgents and give them up. Politics of jealousy, but it did help to knock the commies on their back in Isaan.

I don't care how they get a better deal. Collective bargaining and negotiation would be one way, but there are many ways to skin a cat. Considering Thailand is the largest rice exporting country, the farmers could fund their own factories and export it themselves instead of the middle man gouging them to death.

[Koo82]

If you're beaten by a robber on the street, do you believe someone may help you without being paid 200 500 Baht for doing so?

A man who takes other people's wives to be his wife does not believe that there are men who don't do so.

If you believe some yellows fight for "democracy" (their version is no "one person one vote" ) without being paid, why don't you believe that some reds fight for democracy without being paid?

[Koo82]

3 have paid 500,000 Baht bail each and were released. Did Chamlong pay only 100,000 Baht bail? Why more for the reds? Double standard again?

Only one remains.

[Insight]

B l o o d y h 3 l l ...

[webfact]

reading across different threads and compare postings from Koo82 I got the impression that Koo82 is not one and the same poster but many.

Otherwise I don't have an explanation why grammar, vocabulary, use of slang etc. can be so different. I am missing continuous spelling style in these postings

[Koo82]

So, the yellows are free and the reds are in jail? Really? Get your facts straight. Everyone has gotten out on bail. Some are still hiding. Cowards. And the master coward is in Nicaragua because even Dubai doesn't like him anymore. Why does your dear leader not return to support you reds? Because he doesn't give a sh!t about you. All he cares for is his MONEY.

I didn't say the reds are in jail. I said the reds are caught very fast after the event but what to do with PAD is very slow.

And this is a brave hero to let woman cover him so Police could not catch:

[Koo82]

reading across different threads and compare postings from Koo82 I got the impression that Koo82 is not one and the same poster but many.

Otherwise I don't have an explanation why grammar, vocabulary, use of slang etc. can be so different. I am missing continuous spelling style in these postings

So funny that when someone has different view with you, you often question her status.

[Koo82]

Off to listen to our red radio.

Have fun, all of you!

[webfact]

Off to listen to our red radio.

Have fun, all of you!

yeah! With a RED piano

[animatic]

reading across different threads and compare postings from Koo82 I got the impression that Koo82 is not one and the same poster but many.

Otherwise I don't have an explanation why grammar, vocabulary, use of slang etc. can be so different. I am missing continuous spelling style in these postings

WF she has come under the influence of a 'mentor in the last few months.

She posts as herself still,

but also sometimes using specific talking points she has been fed,

and also some clear cut and pastes that the mentor was too foolish to not have

her rewrite in her own words. So yes it clearly looks like a few different writers.

And pictures she has been fed also. Such as 'Only One Remains.'

I am sure she takes a few shots herself.

And also shows how lame the Red Psyops department is at manipulating hearts and minds.

Lame like a duck missing a foot.

Credibility pretty much shot through.

I DO appreciate the Thank You given above.

Edited April 30, 2009 by animatic

[HagenvonTronje]

Do you actually know what "Communism" is..? Have you ever studied Marx' works? If not <deleted>. I support Communism, i have been member in a communist party before, and inside i will always be a communist regardless how the economy around me functions.

However Thaksin and his red plague are about as far away from anything "communist" as the Earth is from Andromeda. Thaksin is a wannabe dictator obsessed with power and money (and hence the exact, 180 degree, opposite of a communist) and his followers are people who, like him, don't care for anything but money - people who would kill their neighbour for 200 Baht.

OMG, a commie. and like your typical commie comes along, ignoring all facts and dreams his own version of reality.

i know about communism. i grow up in a communist dictatorship, no fun at all. some argue, that this wasn't the real commie shit. pfff. but nevermind, commies have entertaining value.

and which of the many different communist parties you have a member? KPD, KDS, DKP, KPD/ML, MLPD, KPD/AO, KPD/AB, KABD, SED(westberlin) and there are still many more. marxist parties, marxist leninist parties, maoist parties, stalinist parties, moscow orientated parties, moscow dissidents parties, trotzkyist parties, parties paid by the east german commies, parties opposed the east german commies, international socialist, national socialist, anti-germany commies and so on. non of those outfits realy like the other commie gangs. Sectarianism galore. what was your choice?

of course it's silly to label the red shirt as communist. first you must take a look at what the label 'communist' in thailand stands for.

and you are also barking in the wrong direction. nobody else than the beloved PM abhisit called the red shirts communists, so does The Nation and other Media oulets in Thailand.

and what happen with communists in thailand? i posted a picture of the '76 thammasat massacre in an other thread, but it's got deleted by the mods. but those students haven't been real communists, but they got blamed as commies and what they got was and is widely accepted by the thai society.

the 1976 students protest against the return of ex dictator Thanom Kittikachorn, your typical anti-communist junta general.

1998 the then Prime Minister Chuan Leekpai, a democrat, nominated Thanom Kittikachorn to become a member of the honorary Royal Guard.

2007 was the cremation ceremony Thanom presided by Queen Sirikit and Princess Chulabhorn. and 2009 the PM Abhisit comes up with the statement the reds are communist and leftist. there the wind blows.

anyway, no hard feelings Than. if someone have been in his youth a commie, there is a good chance the he becomes later a good democrat with a good heart when he is a litlle bit more wise. and anti- communism can comes also really ugly.

and what now happen is nothing else than a very right wing anti-commie propaganda machine. commie fellows a prone to propaganda.

[animatic]

HvT if I had the chance to sit and have a beer with you or Thanh I am picking Thanh.

Because he comes by his ideology honestly and treats people directly but respectfully

even while strongly disagreeing, and his roots are closer to your roots than YOU know.

Even if we have different politics Thanh is genuine and not a false flag fandangler.

And he hasn't been banned either, to my knowledge...

Edited April 30, 2009 by animatic