Cyprus1951 Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 We have been conned by an English couple. We bought a bungalow fully furnished in Thaland and when we arrived they had Moved out with all our furniture. If anyone has any advise on what we should do we would be grateful. The worst part is we now don;t have the money to furnish it. It's sad when your own kind rip you off. All we know is that they moved to Changmai. They won't answer their phone so we are seeing a lawyer tomorrow. Cyprus 1951 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrjlh Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 (edited) We have been conned by an English couple. We bought a bungalow fully furnished in Thaland and when we arrived they had Moved out with all our furniture. If anyone has any advise on what we should do we would be grateful. The worst part is we now don;t have the money to furnish it.It's sad when your own kind rip you off. All we know is that they moved to Changmai. They won't answer their phone so we are seeing a lawyer tomorrow. Cyprus 1951 If I understand you "bought" the house not rented it. Hope you got a copy of their passports when you bought it? If not, lesson learned. Do you have receipts or records showing purchase? Bank transfers from their bank to yours or visa-versa? Account numbers are traceable. You mush have some legal documents showing the transaction. Pictures of the house before they moved out showing furniture? Collect every thing and report it to local police. Then the Embassy if you know for sure what country. Maybe civil matter so you may need to get a lawyer. Good luck.... Edited April 15, 2009 by Mrjlh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilHarries Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Sorry to hear of your bad experience. Well I'd guess if you are seeing a lawyer that's the first step and he'll look through any contract of sale or whatever. Can't advise you on anything else to do at this stage. I assume, as you say they're not answering their phone, you have some means of contact but if it's a mobile that's of no real help. Oh and yes, dealing with your own nationals imparts a certain sense of security all too often misplaced. One really bad thought struck me. Are you absolutely sure they owned it in the first place? You say "we" is that and you Thai or westerner partner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinginKata Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Sadly there is very little you can do in the short term, or even the longer term. If you have a clear cut contract to say the furniture was included in the sale then it's possible you could file a criminal charge that they 'stole' your furniture. But quite honestly the police will not treat your complaint with any urgency, especially as these people have moved far away out of the local area. And forget about filing a civil court case about breach of contract. It will take many many years, and lots of money, to navigate your case through the courts, with almost no chance of recovering furniture or compensation even if you won your case. BTW I have zero confidence in Thai lawyers, and I say that with quite a lot of personal experience. They are only interested in billing you lots of money, for little or no results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatinBKk Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 If they have taken the furniture I would think that is the least of your problems....did they actually own the house....are you through leasehold or company.....would check that you are the legal owner of the house befor go chasing a few sticks of furniture....welcome to Thailand by the way....hope you have some luck getting everything sorted....dont trust anyone and lend anyone any money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marksamui Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 If you had the contents listed on the contract, by which I mean a full inventory list of things included in the sale, with a value, then you should be able to do something about this. I presume that you used a lawyer to handle your paperwork, and they used one to handle theirs?? If yes you can get a legal letter sent through to them saying that you want the contents or the monentary value of such. Take it from there, if you can afford it chase it up. Don't let people get away with these things....But this really does depend on what is written down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinginKata Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 If yes you can get a legal letter sent through to them saying that you want the contents or the monentary value of such. Take it from there, if you can afford it chase it up. And if the other side just ignore the legal letter, what then. You have to take your complaint to civil court, and that takes years (6 years now, and still going, in the case I am dealing with). I recommend criminal charges (theft) as the most expedient way of dealing with this. But is this possible since they moved out the furniture from their own home, and before you took possession. Save your legal fees to buy furniture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katasyd Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 File a report with the fuzz. Make sure you offer a small "reward" to them if you get the stuff back or locate the couple, it motivates the police to get a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marksamui Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 If yes you can get a legal letter sent through to them saying that you want the contents or the monentary value of such. Take it from there, if you can afford it chase it up. And if the other side just ignore the legal letter, what then. You have to take your complaint to civil court, and that takes years (6 years now, and still going, in the case I am dealing with). I recommend criminal charges (theft) as the most expedient way of dealing with this. But is this possible since they moved out the furniture from their own home, and before you took possession. Save your legal fees to buy furniture. First if you have your documents in order and have the time and money to chase you should. Just because this is Thailand you should not just roll over and accept it. Second if you are sending a legal letter to the sellers solicitor I am sure that they will have some kind of professional duty to at least respond, I am sure that you can file this with the police also this is criminal rather than civil. If everything is in order paperwise on the purchase contract and was purchase was correctly handled by Thai Law then this is theft and so you should do something about it. If the OP has cut some corners with the purchase and does not have things in line then he will probably end up sitting on the floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinLOS Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Your moving to a foreign country... And dont have enough money to furnish a house ?? I see more trouble ahead.. BTW I have zero confidence in Thai lawyers, and I say that with quite a lot of personal experience. They are only interested in billing you lots of money, for little or no results. Total agreement.. Even on open and shut cases.. In fact I am actually as worried about the lawyer finding a way to screw me over with the counterparty as I am the counterparty these days.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinginKata Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Total agreement.. Even on open and shut cases.. In fact I am actually as worried about the lawyer finding a way to screw me over with the counterparty as I am the counterparty these days.. Even worse, in the case I'm involved in, the opposing lawyer tried to make a deal with our lawyer to 'not fight' the case, in return for a 5% cut in the land value. Luckily our lawyer is working for a 10% payment on the land value, and we have won through the 1st & 2nd courts. We were very fortunate to have been recommend (by local Thai business people) a very decent & honest lawyer. I recommend you careful review the lawyer you used when purchasing your property, and how did you get around land purchase by non Thai nationals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaenYim Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 I will agree that there are some really bad Thai lawyers, but there are some really bad lawyers everywhere. My lawyer in Hawaii waited until I was living here to file a fictitious "unpaid bill" claim. Since I wasn't there to defend myself, he took possession of my $40,000 Harley being customized at the time (for a supposed $10,000 bill). On the other hand, after my first Thai lawyer cheated me out of money recovered in a lawsuit, my second Thai lawyer got him disbarred for life. So there is hope of both competence and ethics, and all Thai lawyers shouldn't be clumped together as evil or corrupt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maigo6 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 I think you need to make sure that you actually own the place! Was it really theirs to sell or have they really conned you by selling a house that they were in fact renting themselves. There are certainly Farangs in Thailand that are on the bones of their azz and wouldn't hesitate to rip off other Farangs, no matter where they come from. When I first came to Thailand I rented a house from an English Farang who I found out later wasn't the houseowner at all, in fact he was renting the house from a Thai guy. He owed rent money to the Thai guy and did a bunk with my 3 months deposit too. Welcome to Thailand. If you cannot afford any furniture now, I doubt you'll have the money to persue this case through the courts, these things can cost a lot and can take years. Good luck anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samuibeachcomber Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 If they have taken the furniture I would think that is the least of your problems....did they actually own the house....are you through leasehold or company.....would check that you are the legal owner of the house befor go chasing a few sticks of furniture....welcome to Thailand by the way....hope you have some luck getting everything sorted....dont trust anyone and lend anyone any money good reply,good points raised and finally sound advice.Thailand attracts many unscrupulous farang cos they know they can get away with these sorts of things here.Trying to get furniture back will be a waste of time and perhaps cost more than the furniture is worth,i too would be worried about legal ownership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keestha Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 (edited) There are a lot of details lacking in this story, so understandibly previous posters are worried if you really became the owner of the bungalow at all. Land in Thailand which is used, always has a land paper, there are different types of land papers. Did you ever see the land paper of the land the bungalow is standing on? Legally a house can be owned by somebody who doesn't own the land, and this will be written on the land paper. For starters, before involving a lawyer, you could go to the land office (kom tee din), to enquire about the status of the land and the bungalow. Edited April 16, 2009 by keestha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinginKata Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Let's all cool down on all the speculation about the property ownership until we hear more from the OP. If The OP wants your advice on that, then I'm sure he'll ask. Maybe he'll be back here once he talks to his lawyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huggybear Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 We have been conned by an English couple. We bought a bungalow fully furnished in Thaland and when we arrived they had Moved out with all our furniture. If anyone has any advise on what we should do we would be grateful. The worst part is we now don;t have the money to furnish it.It's sad when your own kind rip you off. All we know is that they moved to Changmai. They won't answer their phone so we are seeing a lawyer tomorrow. Cyprus 1951 Cyprus 1951, are you familiar with the expression "SOL", because that's what you are. Cut your losses and don't throw any more money at this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinginKata Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Cyprus 1951, are you familiar with the expression "SOL", because that's what you are. Hey Huggy.... I had to Google that.... I would concur SOL.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaethon Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Never trust a Farang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaiwanderer Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 If yes you can get a legal letter sent through to them saying that you want the contents or the monentary value of such. Take it from there, if you can afford it chase it up. And if the other side just ignore the legal letter, what then. You have to take your complaint to civil court, and that takes years (6 years now, and still going, in the case I am dealing with). I recommend criminal charges (theft) as the most expedient way of dealing with this. But is this possible since they moved out the furniture from their own home, and before you took possession. Save your legal fees to buy furniture. First if you have your documents in order and have the time and money to chase you should. Just because this is Thailand you should not just roll over and accept it. Second if you are sending a legal letter to the sellers solicitor I am sure that they will have some kind of professional duty to at least respond, I am sure that you can file this with the police also this is criminal rather than civil. If everything is in order paperwise on the purchase contract and was purchase was correctly handled by Thai Law then this is theft and so you should do something about it. If the OP has cut some corners with the purchase and does not have things in line then he will probably end up sitting on the floor. not necessarily at all and in any event the initial letter should be from the buyer to the seller personally rather than their sometime representatives (though lawyer can draft it) service of that letter would appear to be a problem anyway a lot of this is OT until the OP returns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooo Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 So of what I understand, there was no handover from seller to OP. The OP never met the seller upon taking possession?How did the OP get access to the property? Who had the keys? Wasn't there a final inspection before handing over the balance? The seller can just say the place was stripped after they left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valentine Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Due dilligence is necessary for any business or real estate transactions in Thailand or anywhere else for that matter. There are still many who throw away all common sense once they land in Thailand, I am certainly guilty of it in the past. Many years ago I was recommended a lawyer whom I have found to be totally honest & sincere in his dealings with me. On serveral occasions I have dropped into his office where he offered free & sensible advice. There is a group, of which I am an active part, called the International Business Association of Phuket (this is not a commercial pitch as the group is funded by its members & run by volunteers). IBAP members have a wealth of experience in all things Phuket & I urge anyone to avail themselves of the opportunity to network & garner information from its members. IBAP is also currently exploring options to assist in community service projects in Phuket. http://ibap-phuket.org Sorry to get off the topic a bit but I felt it was relevant in terms of helping with advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaiwanderer Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 hope the OP reverts to provide more info although his previous posts indicate he 'completed' in 4 days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penkoprod Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Well.......lookie here !!!!! This might explain a lot http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=2625831 Penkoprod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotusbluete Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Hallo, yes I have to agree to Penkropod. The OP put out a question on 15.04. got more than 20 replies with advice and help. But until today not a word of acknowlegement or appreciation. Very funny indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickencurry Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Hallo,yes I have to agree to Penkropod. The OP put out a question on 15.04. got more than 20 replies with advice and help. But until today not a word of acknowlegement or appreciation. Very funny indeed. I would think that the OP is kinda busy, don't you think? I think on a previous thread he said that he was flying in this week(?) so maybe he's on limited time and not too much internet time to hand? Put yourself in his boots - would you be going to lawyers/maybe buying furniture, essentials OR faffing about on the internet? Best of luck Cyprus. Hope everything gets sorted out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagler Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 You aint in Kansas now Dorothy. Yep you can go down the "death by a thousand cuts" legal path and waste 5 years of your life and still get nowhere. Or you can pay a contractor in CM 5000 baht or so to "negotiate" on your behalf. Ask around when you get into LOS. You'll find someone who knows who to contact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penkoprod Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Hallo,yes I have to agree to Penkropod. The OP put out a question on 15.04. got more than 20 replies with advice and help. But until today not a word of acknowlegement or appreciation. Very funny indeed. No he/they never started that thread. I was quoting what the OP in THIS thread said in reply (pasted below link): http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Lawyer-t253371.html&p=2625831#entry2625831 W e just used a Thai lawyer to buy our house. She was very helpful and not expensive.PM me if you want the details. Pay peanuts, get monkies springs to mind here. I just hope the poor sucker that acknowledged the post didnt follow upi the "advoce" Penkoprod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyprus1951 Posted April 25, 2009 Author Share Posted April 25, 2009 Hallo,yes I have to agree to Penkropod. The OP put out a question on 15.04. got more than 20 replies with advice and help. But until today not a word of acknowlegement or appreciation. Very funny indeed. I would think that the OP is kinda busy, don't you think? I think on a previous thread he said that he was flying in this week(?) so maybe he's on limited time and not too much internet time to hand? Put yourself in his boots - would you be going to lawyers/maybe buying furniture, essentials OR faffing about on the internet? Best of luck Cyprus. Hope everything gets sorted out. Thanks to everyone for their help. Had limited internet access whilst here as well as trying to sort out the problem. Cyprus 1951 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steadfast Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 There's no House Contents Form in Thailand. As far as the Land Registry is concerned the transaction concerns the land/house only. Thai law doesn't give a flying duck about 'furniture', which to most Thais, is a relatively new concept, hence it's being so outrageously expensive here. You're not in the UK now, so why do so many of you bring your preconceptions with you? The Seller can take whatever they like, including stripping the garden, if you're not present during the handover. So you really should have done your homework first. Sure, go to a lawyer, he'll take a few thousand off you and laugh behind your back. All you newcomers, do do your homework before any transaction here, I know it takes a little more time and effort, but worth it in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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