Using The End Particle "ja"

[khaojao]

Hi all,

Can someone explain to me how the end particle "ja" or sometimes "na ja" is used? Initially, I thought it was used by adults talking to children. But then I heard a younger girl respond with the above to an adult and also from shopkeepers to customers.

thanks.

[learnthaipodcast]

Hi Khaojao,

you observed it right. Usually it is used if one speaks to kids but not exclusively. It is more commonly used by woman because it is an informal "sweet" or "soft" polite particle. So if someone wants to be very polite and actually sweet or soft to another person they will say that regardless what age the other person has.

[Slip]

The hard and fast rule to remember is that men do not use it to other men. Although, now I think about it I seem to remember a man saying it to me just the once. Anyway- they'll shout at you if you do!

[khaojao]

Thanks guys. Is this a general usage or only in certain parts of thailand?

[Tywais]

Thanks guys. Is this a general usage or only in certain parts of thailand?

I believe it is more regional in how prominent it is. Up North here in Chiangmai it is pretty common but seems central (Bangkok) no so much. Just my experience in hearing it.

[DavidHouston]

Thanks guys. Is this a general usage or only in certain parts of thailand?

I believe it is more regional in how prominent it is. Up North here in Chiangmai it is pretty common but seems central (Bangkok) no so much. Just my experience in hearing it.

Isn't the Northern articulation "จ้าว" ?

[Tywais]

Isn't the Northern articulation "จ้าว" ?

จ้าว is Lanna and used often here in CM but not sure if it is comparable to "ja" in usage. It usually is used to reply in the affirmative and in place of khrap/ka. But like ja, generally by the female. I believe I do have that turned around though and ja may be a different region. Problem with working at a university, mixed dialects.

[Tod Daniels]

I was on the Sky Train several months ago when a 20+ something year old thai guy in a business suit got a call on his mobile.

The call went something like this;

Ringggggg!

(looked at the phone and made a face)

[This was his ENTIRE conversation, although some of the "ja's" were of different lengths]

ว่าไง !!! จ๊ะ, จ๊ะ, จ๊ะ, จ๊ะ, จ๊ะ, โอ-เค... รักนะเด็กโง

(he closed his phone)

In my experience I have heard it used mostly in EXTREMELY informal settings where you and the conversant are intimately acquainted (as in sweet talk)

OR

In settings where you are speaking to a MUCH subordinate person in stature or hierarchal standing either in a condescending way or an endearing way as with children.

As an aside; In over four years here I've never had it spoken to me. (go figure)

I also believe it Bangkok thai or ภาษากลาง it bears NO similarity to the Northern thai or ภาษาเหนือ "จ้าว" that is spoken in Chiang Mai so readily. ..

[khaojao]

The call went something like this;

Ringggggg!

(looked at the phone and made a face)

[This was his ENTIRE conversation, although some of the "ja's" were of different lengths]

ว่าไง !!! จ๊ะ, จ๊ะ, จ๊ะ, จ๊ะ, จ๊ะ, โอ-เค... รักนะเด็กโง

(he closed his phone)

This is hilarious!!! hahahaha I can almost imagine it already...

So "ja" can be used in a condescending way? But also as an intimate term?

[Rikker]

It's not condescending--it's affectionate and endearing. The รักนะเด็กโง่ part is just being playful -- "I love ya, stupid".

It's widely used in Bangkok, across classes, but only where appropriate.

Pretty much anyone can use จ้ะ with a small child, even strangers. An older female shopkeeper might use it with everybody of younger generations who shops at her store, as a way of being friendly and motherly. Men frequently use it with their gfs/wives. Many Thai women who get to a certain age (the age where everyone calls them ป้า) often use it a lot, almost indiscriminately (see the shopkeeper example above). Lots of scenarios.

[Rikker]

To be clear, there are three related forms of the particle:

จ๊ะ (high tone) when asking a question (ex: ไปไหมจ๊ะ "do you want to go?")

จ้ะ (falling tone) when making a statement (ex: ไม่ไปจ้ะ "I'm not going") -- the vowel can also be drawn out, to varying effect, and as such is written จ้า

จ๋า (rising tone) when calling someone's name, or when answering when your name has been called

Person 1: ที่รักจ๋า "Sweetie...." (to significant other, when getting their attention)

Person 2: จ๋า ว่าไงจ๊ะ "Yes, dear, what is it?" (in response)

[Big Guy]

If men use it you are considered a bit effeminate

[Rikker]

Not if you use it in the appropriate situations. Unless, you know, showing affection for your children is considered effeminate these days.

[mangkorn]

Food stall vendors (including males of the species) regularly say: เอาอะไรจ๊ะ

Nothing effeminate about that.

[Barabbas]

Regarding use of จ้า่ว - it's actually not only ภาษาเหนือ - in Lao (the real one, not the อิสาน dialect) - it's the same - highly respectful answer, i.e. full analogy of ครับผม. Northern Thai has a lot of similarities with real Lao (probably due to the fact that they were have inhabited by descendants from Lanna, or Xishuanpanna).

As for จ้ะ จ๊ะ etc Rikker's answer is quite สมบูรณ์แบบ

[DavidHouston]

Seems to me that this thread, especially Rikker's discussion, has been describing a clear example of how "intonation" is used in Thai, as distinguished from "tonation" or its tonal element.

From Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intonation_(linguistics)

"In linguistics, intonation is variation of pitch while speaking which is not used to distinguish words. (Compare tone.) Intonation and stress are two main elements of linguistic prosody.

All languages use pitch semantically, that is, as intonation, for instance for emphasis, to convey surprise or irony, or to pose a question. Tonal languages such as Chinese and Hausa use pitch to distinguish words in addition to intonation.

"

We as Western learners tend to concentrate on strict rule sets and miss the more abstract elements of emotion, the the finesse that intonation provides.

[Barabbas]

David, your quote is correct, but Rikker's reply is IMHO exactly what it is - a correct and full classification of 3 variations/forms of this particle.

All languages use pitch semantically, that is, as intonation, for instance for emphasis, to convey surprise or irony, or to pose a question. Tonal languages such as Chinese and Hausa use pitch to distinguish words in addition to intonation.

While there is no such thing as intonation marks (at least in traditional Thai) - your phrase

has been describing a clear example of how "intonation" is used in Thai, as distinguished from "tonation" or its tonal element

then, by implication it means that in this case อ๋ อ้ and อ๊ provide not only tonal difference, but also change the grammatical function of the words (?), like

จ่้ะ, จ้า - affirmative

จ๋า - inquisitive

จ๊ะ - "intimative"

[ccarbaugh]

Hi all,

Can someone explain to me how the end particle "ja" or sometimes "na ja" is used? Initially, I thought it was used by adults talking to children. But then I heard a younger girl respond with the above to an adult and also from shopkeepers to customers.

thanks.

My understanding is that "ja" means "honey" or "dear." "na" is used when asking if something is "O.K.?" So, put them together and it means "O.K. honey?" or "O.K. dear?"

[katana]

To be clear, there are three related forms of the particle:

จ๊ะ (high tone) when asking a question (ex: ไปไหมจ๊ะ "do you want to go?")

จ้ะ (falling tone) when making a statement (ex: ไม่ไปจ้ะ "I'm not going") -- the vowel can also be drawn out, to varying effect, and as such is written จ้า

จ๋า (rising tone) when calling someone's name, or when answering when your name has been called

Person 1: ที่รักจ๋า "Sweetie...." (to significant other, when getting their attention)

Person 2: จ๋า ว่าไงจ๊ะ "Yes, dear, what is it?" (in response)

Hi Rikker,

That's what I thought, and the books seems to teach as well, that จ๊ะ is for questions and จ้ะ/จ้า for statements.

But if you search on Google for eg ไปไหนมาจ้า you get quite a few hits. And I've also seen จ้ะ/จ้า used as a question particle when chatting in internet messaging programs such as MSN Messenger etc.

Do you think this is just an incorrect spelling of JA, much the same way as English people spell words incorrectly sometimes, and doesn't really reflect it's tone and pronunciation in real life?

[meadish_sweetball]

But if you search on Google for eg ไปไหนมาจ้า you get quite a few hits. And I've also seen จ้ะ/จ้า used as a question particle when chatting in internet messaging programs such as MSN Messenger etc.

Do you think this is just an incorrect spelling of JA, much the same way as English people spell words incorrectly sometimes, and doesn't really reflect it's tone and pronunciation in real life?

Modern speech has elongated the particles, particularly in Bangkok speech, and I think the writer wants to represent that pronunciation in writing as well...

The same thing has happened to ค่ะ which is often heard with a long vowel, almost as if it were spelled ค่า.

[katana]

Hi meadish,

The point I was trying to make was it was a question, but used the falling tone, rather than a high tone.

[meadish_sweetball]

Sorry katana, I see what you're saying now - in that case I have no good answer.

[edgarfriendly]

unless ur dealing with children, ja jaaa. na kaaa na jaaa etc serves no purpose other than to allow manipulative adults behaviour to flourish.

can i have that?

No.

can i na ja , tee lak, pee, bla bla bla....ohhhhh goo oooonnnnnnn, pleeeeeeeeeeeeseee!!!

I hate U!! or if uv got no spine....i love u na ja, (after u bought pointless tat)

all aboard the protect 'number 1-land' bandwagon....

"EU sucks, though i dont live there, US sucks though i dont live there, AUS sucks but i dont live there, Africas full of 'blacks' and i dont live there. actually, i have ZERO experience living anywhere other than here"..

"therefore, logically, thailand MUST be the best"

cleanest air, sincerest citizens, most beautiful women, best food, best environmental awareness, best everything, and the bad people are all from laos, myanmar, kampuchea, malaysia or the phillipines.

Thais are ALL superhuman, super kind, amazingly witty and NEVER tell lies for a 'faceless' profit.

NGOR NGOO NGOR NGOO!!

if u love it, love it. if u hate it, hate it.

ef.

Edited April 28, 2009 by edgarfriendly

[Rikker]

About ไปไหนมาจ้า ... I think it could be either, because I'm not convinced that some people wouldn't say it with falling tone, but certainly at least some of the time, if not most/all, it is a "misspelling" of จ๊า--high tone--the elongated version of จ๊ะ.

I see this a lot, actually, using ไม้โท where one would expect ไม้ตรี, and vice versa, or mixing up ไม้ตรี and ไม้ไต่คู้ (e.g. เก็ท, pronounced [เก๊ต] with high tone). You might consider it the equivalent of being able to use commas, semicolons, and full stops correctly English. There's a lot of technically incorrect stuff that nobody really pays too much attention to in informal settings, especially online.

[katana]

So likely to be, in part at least, due to a misspelling/typo. Thanks

[DavidHouston]

อาจารย์ นววรรณ พันธุเมธา in her "ไวยากรณ์ไทย" devotes a large section to Parts of Speech. Her classifications tend to be a bit different than what we normally see. One such section is on "คำเสริม" or what we me might call "enhancers". Here are some excerpts from what she says. (The translation is mine; please provide corrections or enhancements if you see any errors. Note that this section does not include the words เจ้า จะ or จ้า. These are covered a few pages later in her book; I think that before discussing these particular words, we would be aided by her introduction:)

____________________________

คำเสริมคือ คำที่เสริมเข้าไปในประโยค ช่วยแสดงเจตนาและท่าทีของผู้พูดและแสดงความสัมพันธ์ระหว่างผู้พูดกัยผู้ฟัง แบ่งได้เป็น ๓ ประเภท ดังนี้ ๑. คำบอกมาลา ๒. คำบอกการถาม ๓. คำบอกสถานภาพ

"Enhancers" are words which are added into a sentence which assist in demonstrating the intention or the attitude of the speaker or his or her relationship with the listener. There are three types of enhancers: 1. a mood indicator; 2. an interrogatory; and 3. a status indicator.

คำบอกมาลาไม่ค่อยใช้เมื่อสื่อสารด้วยการเขียน แต่มักใช้เสมอเมื่อสื่อสารด้วยการพูด ทำให้การพูดน่าฟัง ไม่ห้วนสั้นเกินไป ทั้งยังช่วยเน้นเจตนาของผู้พูดอีกด้วยว่า ถาน สั่ง ขู่ ขอร้อง หรือ อ้อนวอน ฯลฯ

Mood indicators are not generally used in writing but they are used in oral communications. They enhance the sound of speech and they prevent speech from being too abrupt. They also serve to emphasize whether the speaker intends to indicate a question, an order, a threat, a request, an entreaty, etc.

[she divides these enhancers into categories based on the un-toned (or un-intonated) version of each word.]

คำบอกมาลาอาจกำหนดได้เป็นพวก ฯ เช่น พวก ละ นะ ซิ เถอะ กระมัง หรอก แน่ะ นี่ หนอ แหละ

Mood indicators can be grouped into various categories, for example, . . . .

พวก ละ ได้แก่ ละ ล่ะ

พวก นะ ได้แก่ นะ น่ะ นา น้า

พวก ซิ ได้แก่ ซิ ซิ่ ซี ซี่ ซี้

พวก เถอะ ได้แก่ เถอะ เถิด

พวก กระมัง ได้แก่ กระมัง มัง มั้ง

พวก หรอก ได้แก่ หรอก ร้อก

พวก แน่ะ ได้แก่ แน่ะ

[etc.]

คำเหล่านี้มีลักษณะพิเศษ คือ เมื่อพูด เสียงอาจสั้นหรือยาว และเป็นเสียงสูงต่ำแตกตางจากอักษรที่เขียน เช่น ละ เวลาพูดจะเป็น ลา (เสียงสั้นก่วา ลา ที่หมายถึงสัตว์ชนิดหนึ่ง) . . . เมื่อไม่อาจบันทึกเป็นตัวอักษรได้ตรงตามเสียง ผู้อานก็ต้องกำหนดเอาเองให้ถูกตามความหมาย เพราะเมื่อเราออกเสียงต่างกัน ความหมายก็ต่างกันไปด้วย

These words have special properties, that is, when spoken their vowels may be long or short and their tones may be high or low which may differ from the manner in which they are written. For example, the word "ละ" (la) may be pronounced as "ลา" (laa) (however the pronunciation is a bit shorter than the word which means "donkey") . . . [other examples follow] When these words are not written out in accordance with the manner in which they are pronounced, the reader must figure out for himself what the word should be from the context. This is because the different ways of pronouncing a word will change its meaning.

_______________________________

In summary, I think that Ajarn Nawawan and Rikker are in agreement regarding the distinction between the written word and the spoken word, although it seems to me that Nawawan is less inclined to call such differences "incorrect".

Edited May 3, 2009 by DavidHouston