Thai Hotels Step Up Discounts And Promotion Packages

[Jiu-Jitsu]

OK just tried and a message says i don't have permission to start a topic on this forum ... any ideas why this is so anyone?

Only moderators and admin can start topics in the News forum. Try starting a topic in General. Better yet, the 150 baht ATM fee has been discussed to death in the Jobs, Economy, Banking... Forrum. You might want to join in there.

Thanks Ovenman ... yours is what i call a good post ... constructive , informative and without sarcasm. Well done. I'm off to the right forum.

I still maintain that you are a TROLL. Can you let me know which bank's ATM allows you to withdraw 100000 baht in one go?

[jeffer]

I would like to comment on this 150 baht ATM charge.

So when i take money from a ATM its usually about 100,000 worth so a 150 baht charge , whilst annoying in principle , is nothing at all. But if you are amounst those who go to the ATM 25 times a week and take out 200 baht (just like the thousands who queue in the UK at ATM's for 10 minutes to withdraw a tenner and then do the same thing the next day) then i think you are overcomplicating your lives and costing yourselves unneccessarily.

To summarise ... my solution to getting round this 150 baht insignificant charge is ... carry loads of cash , withdraw rarely and in big amounts .

Problem solved ... No??

Which bank are you with and what type of account do you have?

Where are these ATMs that allow you to withdraw 100,000 baht in a single transaction and only charge you 150 baht located?

thanks

[Jiu-Jitsu]

I would like to comment on this 150 baht ATM charge.

Personally i think its an annoying but very bearable charge. One poster put it well when he said (summing up in my own words here ) people don't mind spending thousands of baht a night on overpriced drinks but begrudge paying ANYTHING on an ATM charge . If the charge were 50 baht you would all still be whingeing. Its the fact that you don't want to pay anything at all thats the issue , not the 150 baht.

However a possible solution to minimise this is if you stop taking trivial amounts out and take one whacking lump out , then surely the 150 baht becomes trivial?

Part of the problem , and it applies here in the UK especially i've noticed, is that people walk around with almost nothing on them in cash. For Christs sake why?

In the UK, I always have a couple of hundred pounds in my wallet and feel naked if that drops to below 50. In Thailand i usually think between 10-20, 000 baht is about right , never letting it drop below this .So when i take money from a ATM its usually about 100,000 worth so a 150 baht charge , whilst annoying in principle , is nothing at all. But if you are amounst those who go to the ATM 25 times a week and take out 200 baht (just like the thousands who queue in the UK at ATM's for 10 minutes to withdraw a tenner and then do the same thing the next day) then i think you are overcomplicating your lives and costing yourselves unneccessarily.

Part of the problems in this modern day life is that people have been brought up to rely on credit / debit cards and lazily don't carry cash. I am the opposite , i carry cash , buy almost everything in cash , and whilst i have loads of credit cards i rarely use them even for big bills. I am driven to distraction queueing in a shop behind someone who buys £3 of goods and whips out the credit card . No wonder people have so many money problems.

To summarise ... my solution to getting round this 150 baht insignificant charge is ... carry loads of cash , withdraw rarely and in big amounts .

Problem solved ... No??

TROLL

Have you actually been to Thailand? I think if you had you would know that you cannot withdraw 100,000 baht from an ATM in one go.

Best to crawl back from whence you came eh?

I'm sure that you realise that most people's argument arises from the fact that the charges went from zero to 150 baht.

Why would this be? Why not, at best, charge the same as someone who held a local bank account? It's simple. People wish to avoid the charge because they know it's a simple money grab. Mugging without the violence.

Your rant about carry loads of cash whilst others don't, just weakens your argument further.

To Jiu-Jitsu...A completely ignorant post probably from one of the carry-no-money-on-me -go-to-the-ATM-everyday brigade. There are many here who know i am no troll (first time i've ever been called that.. many things but never Troll!!) and yes i have been to LOS about 20 odd times ... quite enough to make my observations i think.

And yes you can withdraw that amount from my account but then i have a special account so maybe thats not the norm for everyone. Nothing to stop people going into the branch and taking the money out is there? Except the ones too lazy to do so.

And no i don't accept people's anger is because the charge has gone from zero (which lets face it is too cheap) to 150 baht .. a truly insignificant figure anyway. I think its because there is a charge at all...people just don't want to pay at all and would whinge whatever the amount.

But the crucial bit of my post is that if people stopped withdrawing stupidly small amounts and took out a couple of weeks or a months money in one go then they would pay just one charge. But because most people seem allergic to carrying more than 50 baht on them at any one time they incur charges they don't have to. Its a very simple concept . My "rant" as you call it about people carrying proper cash does not weaken the arguement (God knows how you work that out .. clearly not strong on economics.. ) it strenthens it .

So Jiu-Jitsu , if you are capable of constructing a well reasoned arguement why not reply this time without the insults saying why i am wrong. Unless of course your day is spent queueing at the ATM !!

So your argument is based on you having a 'special account'?

I too have a 'special account' which ensure that I don't pays fees for withdrawing my cash anywhere in the world.

Yes, I am one of the don't carry around "large amounts of cash brigade". It doesn't make sense on any level. The longer my money stays in the bank, the more interest is obtained on it. Once it's out, no interest and much harder to keep track of your spending and much easier to 'lose'.

So, if I inconvenience someone like you who has to wait a minute longer at the till, I won't be feeling bad about it. You shouldn't either. Obviously you are not happy with yourself. I'm happy with whatever I'm doing, because I'm balanced.

If having to wait in a supermarket queue behind someone who takes a minute more because they are paying with their Debit/Credit card upsets you, you must have a really crap life.

Feel naked because you don't have money in your pocket? Develop a personality and you'll find that you won't need money to purchase your friends.

Since you write that you carry double the amount in cash in Thailand than you do in the UK, I have to conclude that you must be doing something with that extra cash.

If I'm having to wait in a queue, I'll use the time to make a new friend or call my girlfriend or.... You just seem to spend your time getting upset. Maybe it's because you are only on holiday for a couple of weeks at a time and never quite find the time to relax.

Your post is full of contradiction. You insist that people should carry "loads of cash" and not depend on debit/credit cards and then go on to say that you have "loads of credit cards". Why is that then?

You just come over to me as a smug and unpleasant kind of person.

[bkkbrad]

London Bangkok London GBP 144 plus taxes!! Great time to come but it won't happen, this is the tip of the iceberg

have you seen this offer? can you tell me where. cheers

If you can't find this offer check out the offers that are on the Air Asia website..you have to go via KL but it does work out far cheaper than any other carrier.

[sanmiguel]

London Bangkok London GBP 144 plus taxes!! Great time to come but it won't happen, this is the tip of the iceberg

have you seen this offer? can you tell me where. cheers

If you can't find this offer check out the offers that are on the Air Asia website..you have to go via KL but it does work out far cheaper than any other carrier.

That offer works out at about 500GBP once return flights to BKK are added on.

The tickets are totally non changeable, more a advertising gimmick then a decent cheap flight., im currently with emirates fflying for 390gbp return a better deal with a better airline.

[DMasut]

And this:

2 weeks ago I was in BKK and saw a car I was interested in. I went to Kasikorn Bank to take 100.000 Baht for a deposit and Kasikorn charged me almost 500 Baht!!! Staff told me it would be the same charge at an ATM.

Finaly, I did not bought the car and the very same day they charged me almost 500 Baht again to bring my money back in to the bank.................... 1.000 Baht to hold my money in my hands for a few hours and bring it back.......

What's next??????????????????

What's next ??? Ever thought of PLANNING for such a transaction or do you want to operate 'Thai style'. Only an invertebrate would try and withdraw GBP 2.000 without some fore-thought

I guess with all of that hassle and expense Traveller's Cheques are about to become more popular.

[brahmburgers]

Just give me a 1 year visa with no restrictions, 90 day visa run or any of that nonsense and I would happily relocate to Thailand.

Thai authorities don't want you to 'relocate' to Thailand. They want you to come for a short visit, spend as much as they can squeeze out of you, and then have you go home and tell your friends what a great destination it is.

Here's what Thai boosters can do to improve tourist revenue:

>>> charge same for tourists as for Thais - on everything. Any two-tiered pricing looks like racism from a farang's perspective. In order to discern, the person taking the money has to make a quick assessment based on physical appearance. It's a 'penny wise / pound foolish' policy.

>>> get some resident farang involved is gauging what farang want to see. Example: I have young backpacker farang coming to visit me here in northern Thailand (17 in 3 months). I take them to see things they really enjoy seeing (caves, rivers, rock crags for climbing, waterfalls). In contrast, tourist brochures try to lure them to seeing things they don't particularly care for (trash-strewn beaches, boring golf, crass tourist markets, a white colored wat, gridlock).

Sure decent prices are appealing, but just as important are enticing destinations.

[JetsetBkk]

Any chance of a mod deleting all the crapola about ATM charges and getting this topic back on track, which I think was about proposed discounts for tourists.

I know it'll mean deleting a couple of pages, but so what?

[BlueSmurf]

I've said it on the forum before devalue the Baht by 25/30%.This will bring tourists back quickly forgetting the problems here.It will make imports more expensive but the average thai will not be affected as they do not buy imported goods.yes fuel will cost more but hey its the cheapest its been for a long while..They will be able to sell their goods/products abroad again and so will have a viable economy..BUT WHO WILL COME HERE IF THEY FIND OUT IF THEY GET THE SWINE FLU HERE THEY COULD DIE AS THEY DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH STOCK PIES OF THE ANTI VIRRAL DRUGS WHICH ARE PROVEN TO WORK!.Yes the States are ok, they don't care as they have not closed their borders with Mexico.Why because they do not want their trade affected...Why do I say there is not enough Anti virrals because I live in Chiang rai and have been to the hospital here this morning( Scribrin) asked if they have Tamiflu and they said no! I asaked if they could source it as I would like to keep some at home( family in mind) no cannot source it...So what will you do I asked? Well we have been told to refer patients to The thai 30 baht hospital but he also said he knew they had only very very limited supplies not enough for a pandemic!!!

So I would suspect that when Mr. Toxin said Bird Flu would not be a problem here as we have things under control then that did not include having tamiflu and relenza...So go check with your local hospital and ask if they have stocks? If they have'nt may be best to stay in bangkok, Pattaya or phuket where supplies can be quickly shipped in....

If anyone knows that I'am wrong please tell me..

best of luck to everyone.............

It might be that the original infection came from an American pig farm in Mexico. They were complaints from a locally owned pig farm about pollution from the aforementioned farm.

So it may be premature to blame the Mexicans.(not that you necessarily did so).

Yes I agree and I attached no blame ..maybe I should have done? The point is the borders are open and the americans have done nothing to stop the export of the new flu virus as they do not want to damage their economy .Why because they have Tamiflu in huge amounts..Here in Thailand when it comes not if! We may be FCUEDK! So as I said check with your local hospital and find out if they have the anti virrals...Good luck as I said before

[Hannibal]

London Bangkok London GBP 144 plus taxes!! Great time to come but it won't happen, this is the tip of the iceberg

Ok, am looking for a ticket so please spill the beans old chap? Where can I get such a ticket?

Hannibal

[PlaShadow]

Just let the market do the job, the big hotels are underpaying their staff for a very long time, so it is much better for the government to help these poor people instead of the fat cat Indian and Chinese who own most properties anyhow.

Underpaying? Have you run a hotel or business in Thailand? Do you know why the staff ratio in Thailand is 1:4 or 5 compared to western businesses? Before you come with statements like this, look into hard facts of average attendance, loyalty and punctuality of Thai workers. There is a very good reason why salaries are what they are in Thailand..................

The reason why salaries are low in Thailand is that a few people can amass large fortunes.

Example: I ran a small company in Europe for about 30 years. If I had paid the staff Thai salaries, I would have 300 million THB in my pocket now, but my staff would not have had paid holliday, social protection, insurance, retirement money, legal assistance etc. etc.

I guess you have neither run a business or looked into running a business in Thailand, or you simply hang out with Thai's who are "self-employed entertainers", and you collect your twisted info from them. There is a social security system, in which employers and employees pay monthly. There is a health insurance, albeit not to western standard, but every Thai has access to a doctor or hospital. Social Security Office offers legal help to employees in dispute with employers.

Thai's are also entitled to 30 days (yes, one month) of paid sick leave per year (which are vigorously used), on top of 30 days of unpaid "business leave". Now, with 26 public holidays/Budda days, plus earned 1 - 2 week vacation per year, after 1 year of employment, go figure out it the salaries are unreasonable. In my estimates, the average factory/service industry worker, only works 8 months of the year, when all is added.

Now on top of that, add the fact that money penalty on workers here does not work in case of braking company rules or attentance. They simply come and go as pleased, and ask any Thai how many jobs they have held in the last 10 years.

Once again, there is a reason why the salaries are as they are and no amount of farang rumbling about how this and that is done in Europe or USA is going to change that.

[brahmburgers]

I don't know much about high-end tourists, but I've spoken with a slew of backpackers in recent months/years. As I'm based in northernmost Thailand, I get the perspective from here. Although there is an array of are appealing facets of north Thailand (pretty much all the same things the south has, except beaches and snorkeling/diving/kayaking). Up in the north, we've got trekking, resorts, golf, and much the same you find all over Thailand. However, with few exceptions, every one of the dozens of backpackers I've spoken with are using Thailand as a stepping off point for Laos, with a few going on to Cambodia.

In other words, for thousands of low-end tourists exploring the central regions of SE Asia, Thailand scores low and Laos scores high. Why is that? Young folks give the following reasons:

>>>> Laos is like Thailand was 30 years ago: friendly, cheap, laid-back, not trying to be all westernized. The key word is friendly. I'm saying this as a messenger, as I don't have much experience in Laos, though the little bit I've explored there, I have to say it's preferable to Thailand in those ways aforementioned.

by all indications, TAT doesn't care what backpackers think, as all TAT's focus is on high-end tourists. Unfortunately, a glance at resorts in Thailand, will show that occupancy rates are through the floor. TAT should give a hoot about backpackers, because they bring a lot of revenue to the Thailand (a large quantity of low spenders can account for more revenue than a few big spenders). And some of today's backpackers will grow to become tomorrow's big spenders. Plus, backpackers are great networkers, and they tell their friends/family back home what they experience in Thailand. That's why Laos outscores Thailand in many ways, and they (and their friends/family) are talking with their feet.

Hot Tip: For those thinking of starting a low-end tourist biz in SE Asia, Laos is the wave of the future. Thailand is slipping toward insignificance, it's people spending much of their calories wondering where to buy more whitening lotions, or staring at Thai-dubbed Chinese TV sit-coms.

No amount of discounts (bogus or otherwise) are going to change the basic substance of what Thailand has to offer to visitors - nor is it going to change the surly attitude that tourists/resident farang receive from Thais in the tourist sector - who see farang as dummies whose only worth is how much they're willing to pull out of the ATM machine - and spend at that moment.

[yaketyak]

I would like to comment on this 150 baht ATM charge.

Personally i think its an annoying but very bearable charge. One poster put it well when he said (summing up in my own words here ) people don't mind spending thousands of baht a night on overpriced drinks but begrudge paying ANYTHING on an ATM charge . If the charge were 50 baht you would all still be whingeing. Its the fact that you don't want to pay anything at all thats the issue , not the 150 baht.

However a possible solution to minimise this is if you stop taking trivial amounts out and take one whacking lump out , then surely the 150 baht becomes trivial?

Part of the problem , and it applies here in the UK especially i've noticed, is that people walk around with almost nothing on them in cash. For Christs sake why?

In the UK, I always have a couple of hundred pounds in my wallet and feel naked if that drops to below 50. In Thailand i usually think between 10-20, 000 baht is about right , never letting it drop below this .So when i take money from a ATM its usually about 100,000 worth so a 150 baht charge , whilst annoying in principle , is nothing at all. But if you are amounst those who go to the ATM 25 times a week and take out 200 baht (just like the thousands who queue in the UK at ATM's for 10 minutes to withdraw a tenner and then do the same thing the next day) then i think you are overcomplicating your lives and costing yourselves unneccessarily.

Part of the problems in this modern day life is that people have been brought up to rely on credit / debit cards and lazily don't carry cash. I am the opposite , i carry cash , buy almost everything in cash , and whilst i have loads of credit cards i rarely use them even for big bills. I am driven to distraction queueing in a shop behind someone who buys £3 of goods and whips out the credit card . No wonder people have so many money problems.

To summarise ... my solution to getting round this 150 baht insignificant charge is ... carry loads of cash , withdraw rarely and in big amounts .

Problem solved ... No??

TROLL

Have you actually been to Thailand? I think if you had you would know that you cannot withdraw 100,000 baht from an ATM in one go.

Best to crawl back from whence you came eh?

I'm sure that you realise that most people's argument arises from the fact that the charges went from zero to 150 baht.

Why would this be? Why not, at best, charge the same as someone who held a local bank account? It's simple. People wish to avoid the charge because they know it's a simple money grab. Mugging without the violence.

Your rant about carry loads of cash whilst others don't, just weakens your argument further.

To Jiu-Jitsu...A completely ignorant post probably from one of the carry-no-money-on-me -go-to-the-ATM-everyday brigade. There are many here who know i am no troll (first time i've ever been called that.. many things but never Troll!!) and yes i have been to LOS about 20 odd times ... quite enough to make my observations i think.

And yes you can withdraw that amount from my account but then i have a special account so maybe thats not the norm for everyone. Nothing to stop people going into the branch and taking the money out is there? Except the ones too lazy to do so.

And no i don't accept people's anger is because the charge has gone from zero (which lets face it is too cheap) to 150 baht .. a truly insignificant figure anyway. I think its because there is a charge at all...people just don't want to pay at all and would whinge whatever the amount.

But the crucial bit of my post is that if people stopped withdrawing stupidly small amounts and took out a couple of weeks or a months money in one go then they would pay just one charge. But because most people seem allergic to carrying more than 50 baht on them at any one time they incur charges they don't have to. Its a very simple concept . My "rant" as you call it about people carrying proper cash does not weaken the arguement (God knows how you work that out .. clearly not strong on economics.. ) it strenthens it .

So Jiu-Jitsu , if you are capable of constructing a well reasoned arguement why not reply this time without the insults saying why i am wrong. Unless of course your day is spent queueing at the ATM !!

So your argument is based on you having a 'special account'?

I too have a 'special account' which ensure that I don't pays fees for withdrawing my cash anywhere in the world.

Yes, I am one of the don't carry around "large amounts of cash brigade". It doesn't make sense on any level. The longer my money stays in the bank, the more interest is obtained on it. Once it's out, no interest and much harder to keep track of your spending and much easier to 'lose'.

So, if I inconvenience someone like you who has to wait a minute longer at the till, I won't be feeling bad about it. You shouldn't either. Obviously you are not happy with yourself. I'm happy with whatever I'm doing, because I'm balanced.

If having to wait in a supermarket queue behind someone who takes a minute more because they are paying with their Debit/Credit card upsets you, you must have a really crap life.

Feel naked because you don't have money in your pocket? Develop a personality and you'll find that you won't need money to purchase your friends.

Since you write that you carry double the amount in cash in Thailand than you do in the UK, I have to conclude that you must be doing something with that extra cash.

If I'm having to wait in a queue, I'll use the time to make a new friend or call my girlfriend or.... You just seem to spend your time getting upset. Maybe it's because you are only on holiday for a couple of weeks at a time and never quite find the time to relax.

Your post is full of contradiction. You insist that people should carry "loads of cash" and not depend on debit/credit cards and then go on to say that you have "loads of credit cards". Why is that then?

You just come over to me as a smug and unpleasant kind of person.

An even more unpleasant post from Jiu -Jitsu than his last one against me . And full of CRAP. All this rubbish about losing interest.. nonsense.

He asks why i carry loads of cash (which yes i do) and yet state i have loads of credit cards (yes i do too) as if there is some contradiction there. Why ? I already stated i have loads of credit cards (as do most people it seems ) the differerance is i don't spend my life using them all the time , only when i feel i need to do so to aquire purchase protection (eg electrical goods that could break quickly) or flight tickets in case the airline goes bust etc. Why is that so unbelievable?

Jiu-Jitsu obviously is very annoyed because i criticised people who he recognised as himself. Those selfish people who hold up the queues everywhere they go by paying for everything no matter how small on cards.

Anyway i am aware this is taking the OP off topic again , so i will start up a new topic in the general topics section if it allows me too where i will be only too happy to continue this discussion about waste of space people with Jiu-Jitsu and anyone else who chooses to enter the fray.

Lastly i will confirm again , the common sense way to avoid paying this 150 baht fee too often is stop taking out small amounts , withdraw as much as you can in one go. Simple economics eh?

[Oberkommando]

I don't know much about high-end tourists, but I've spoken with a slew of backpackers in recent months/years. As I'm based in northernmost Thailand, I get the perspective from here. Although there is an array of are appealing facets of north Thailand (pretty much all the same things the south has, except beaches and snorkeling/diving/kayaking). Up in the north, we've got trekking, resorts, golf, and much the same you find all over Thailand. However, with few exceptions, every one of the dozens of backpackers I've spoken with are using Thailand as a stepping off point for Laos, with a few going on to Cambodia.

In other words, for thousands of low-end tourists exploring the central regions of SE Asia, Thailand scores low and Laos scores high. Why is that? Young folks give the following reasons:

>>>> Laos is like Thailand was 30 years ago: friendly, cheap, laid-back, not trying to be all westernized. The key word is friendly. I'm saying this as a messenger, as I don't have much experience in Laos, though the little bit I've explored there, I have to say it's preferable to Thailand in those ways aforementioned.

by all indications, TAT doesn't care what backpackers think, as all TAT's focus is on high-end tourists. Unfortunately, a glance at resorts in Thailand, will show that occupancy rates are through the floor. TAT should give a hoot about backpackers, because they bring a lot of revenue to the Thailand (a large quantity of low spenders can account for more revenue than a few big spenders). And some of today's backpackers will grow to become tomorrow's big spenders. Plus, backpackers are great networkers, and they tell their friends/family back home what they experience in Thailand. That's why Laos outscores Thailand in many ways, and they (and their friends/family) are talking with their feet.

Hot Tip: For those thinking of starting a low-end tourist biz in SE Asia, Laos is the wave of the future. Thailand is slipping toward insignificance, it's people spending much of their calories wondering where to buy more whitening lotions, or staring at Thai-dubbed Chinese TV sit-coms.

No amount of discounts (bogus or otherwise) are going to change the basic substance of what Thailand has to offer to visitors - nor is it going to change the surly attitude that tourists/resident farang receive from Thais in the tourist sector - who see farang as dummies whose only worth is how much they're willing to pull out of the ATM machine - and spend at that moment.

Cambodia seems to be doing very well as a result.

As you point out it was TAT policy to get a "better class of tourist" and they turned their backs on the core market of backpackers and budget tourists, not to mention snubbing the long stayers, whom are mostly backpackers, by limiting the amount of border runs they could do to a maximum of 90 days. Now they have a ridiculous 15 day stay for those entering by land, which means long term tourism without a visa is near enough impossible and travelling around the region by land is increasingly more difficult. It does ensure these travellers spend less and less time in Thailand though and hence less and less revenue for Thailand.

They are just reaping what they have sown by silly, unworkable policies and inconvenient, pie-in-the-sky ideas and idiotic planning

When I was in Phnom Penh last week it seemed to be thriving, many more new businesses have opened up and the guesthouse I was staying in was full. Every room occupied.

A few months ago the Thai Embassy there was not issuing any non-Khmer people with tourist visas either. A bizarre situation that had legitimate tourists from all over the World cursing and venting their frustrations outside. Incredible considering how Thailand is clamouring for tourists!

I certainly agree with your assessment of the low-end tourist business opening in Laos/Cambodia and by the looks of things many people are already doing just that.

[Oberkommando]

Lastly i will confirm again , the common sense way to avoid paying this 150 baht fee too often is stop taking out small amounts , withdraw as much as you can in one go. Simple economics eh?

I use the ATM 20+ times per month and withdraw the maximum each time so it will still cost me over 3,000thb per month in charges in addition to what I already pay with my issuing bank.

Simply unacceptable.

[h90]

I don't know much about high-end tourists, but I've spoken with a slew of backpackers in recent months/years. As I'm based in northernmost Thailand, I get the perspective from here. Although there is an array of are appealing facets of north Thailand (pretty much all the same things the south has, except beaches and snorkeling/diving/kayaking). Up in the north, we've got trekking, resorts, golf, and much the same you find all over Thailand. However, with few exceptions, every one of the dozens of backpackers I've spoken with are using Thailand as a stepping off point for Laos, with a few going on to Cambodia.

In other words, for thousands of low-end tourists exploring the central regions of SE Asia, Thailand scores low and Laos scores high. Why is that? Young folks give the following reasons:

>>>> Laos is like Thailand was 30 years ago: friendly, cheap, laid-back, not trying to be all westernized. The key word is friendly. I'm saying this as a messenger, as I don't have much experience in Laos, though the little bit I've explored there, I have to say it's preferable to Thailand in those ways aforementioned.

by all indications, TAT doesn't care what backpackers think, as all TAT's focus is on high-end tourists. Unfortunately, a glance at resorts in Thailand, will show that occupancy rates are through the floor. TAT should give a hoot about backpackers, because they bring a lot of revenue to the Thailand (a large quantity of low spenders can account for more revenue than a few big spenders). And some of today's backpackers will grow to become tomorrow's big spenders. Plus, backpackers are great networkers, and they tell their friends/family back home what they experience in Thailand. That's why Laos outscores Thailand in many ways, and they (and their friends/family) are talking with their feet.

Hot Tip: For those thinking of starting a low-end tourist biz in SE Asia, Laos is the wave of the future. Thailand is slipping toward insignificance, it's people spending much of their calories wondering where to buy more whitening lotions, or staring at Thai-dubbed Chinese TV sit-coms.

No amount of discounts (bogus or otherwise) are going to change the basic substance of what Thailand has to offer to visitors - nor is it going to change the surly attitude that tourists/resident farang receive from Thais in the tourist sector - who see farang as dummies whose only worth is how much they're willing to pull out of the ATM machine - and spend at that moment.

Well the south of Thailand is different. Of course Malaysia/Indonesia/Philippines have a much healthier nature, but Thai hospitality is still better.

[h90]

I don't know much about high-end tourists, but I've spoken with a slew of backpackers in recent months/years. As I'm based in northernmost Thailand, I get the perspective from here. Although there is an array of are appealing facets of north Thailand (pretty much all the same things the south has, except beaches and snorkeling/diving/kayaking). Up in the north, we've got trekking, resorts, golf, and much the same you find all over Thailand. However, with few exceptions, every one of the dozens of backpackers I've spoken with are using Thailand as a stepping off point for Laos, with a few going on to Cambodia.

In other words, for thousands of low-end tourists exploring the central regions of SE Asia, Thailand scores low and Laos scores high. Why is that? Young folks give the following reasons:

>>>> Laos is like Thailand was 30 years ago: friendly, cheap, laid-back, not trying to be all westernized. The key word is friendly. I'm saying this as a messenger, as I don't have much experience in Laos, though the little bit I've explored there, I have to say it's preferable to Thailand in those ways aforementioned.

by all indications, TAT doesn't care what backpackers think, as all TAT's focus is on high-end tourists. Unfortunately, a glance at resorts in Thailand, will show that occupancy rates are through the floor. TAT should give a hoot about backpackers, because they bring a lot of revenue to the Thailand (a large quantity of low spenders can account for more revenue than a few big spenders). And some of today's backpackers will grow to become tomorrow's big spenders. Plus, backpackers are great networkers, and they tell their friends/family back home what they experience in Thailand. That's why Laos outscores Thailand in many ways, and they (and their friends/family) are talking with their feet.

Hot Tip: For those thinking of starting a low-end tourist biz in SE Asia, Laos is the wave of the future. Thailand is slipping toward insignificance, it's people spending much of their calories wondering where to buy more whitening lotions, or staring at Thai-dubbed Chinese TV sit-coms.

No amount of discounts (bogus or otherwise) are going to change the basic substance of what Thailand has to offer to visitors - nor is it going to change the surly attitude that tourists/resident farang receive from Thais in the tourist sector - who see farang as dummies whose only worth is how much they're willing to pull out of the ATM machine - and spend at that moment.

Cambodia seems to be doing very well as a result.

As you point out it was TAT policy to get a "better class of tourist" and they turned their backs on the core market of backpackers and budget tourists, not to mention snubbing the long stayers, whom are mostly backpackers, by limiting the amount of border runs they could do to a maximum of 90 days. Now they have a ridiculous 15 day stay for those entering by land, which means long term tourism without a visa is near enough impossible and travelling around the region by land is increasingly more difficult. It does ensure these travellers spend less and less time in Thailand though and hence less and less revenue for Thailand.

They are just reaping what they have sown by silly, unworkable policies and inconvenient, pie-in-the-sky ideas and idiotic planning

When I was in Phnom Penh last week it seemed to be thriving, many more new businesses have opened up and the guesthouse I was staying in was full. Every room occupied.

A few months ago the Thai Embassy there was not issuing any non-Khmer people with tourist visas either. A bizarre situation that had legitimate tourists from all over the World cursing and venting their frustrations outside. Incredible considering how Thailand is clamouring for tourists!

I certainly agree with your assessment of the low-end tourist business opening in Laos/Cambodia and by the looks of things many people are already doing just that.

that 15 day regulation is one of the most stupid things ever done to tourism.

[yaketyak]

Lastly i will confirm again , the common sense way to avoid paying this 150 baht fee too often is stop taking out small amounts , withdraw as much as you can in one go. Simple economics eh?

I use the ATM 20+ times per month and withdraw the maximum each time so it will still cost me over 3,000thb per month in charges in addition to what I already pay with my issuing bank.

Simply unacceptable.

I think this should be dealt with in another forum but its just not right for you to be using the ATM so many times. I don't see why you don't open a bank account like HSBC for example and get the money sent from the UK and then withdraw the cash in Thailand? Is this not possible for you? Certainly possible if you are in BKK. I do this when in BKK and it costs me NOTHING to send the money from the UK and NOTHING to withdraw it , although this does involve going into the branch itself..not possible for everyone i guess but works for me .

[Priceless]

Lastly i will confirm again , the common sense way to avoid paying this 150 baht fee too often is stop taking out small amounts , withdraw as much as you can in one go. Simple economics eh?

I use the ATM 20+ times per month and withdraw the maximum each time so it will still cost me over 3,000thb per month in charges in addition to what I already pay with my issuing bank.

Simply unacceptable.

The maximum at every Thai ATM I've used, at least the last 5 years or so, has been 20,000 THB. You withdraw that amount "20+ times per month", i.e. 400,000-500,000 baht/month in cash. Living the high life, are we?

/ Priceless

Edited April 29, 2009 by Priceless

[asiasurfer]

Thai hotels step up discounts and promotion packages

Following the Songkran riots, 29 countries and territories issued travel alerts for Thailand. Only three - France, Italy and Hong Kong - have downgraded their warnings.

-- The Nation 2009-04-28

Follow the Breaking News here:

--> Download our News Ticker Toolbar for IE and Firefox: http://toolbar.thaivisa.com

--> Subscribe to our Breaking Newsletter: http://www.thaivisa.com/353.0.html

--> Follow us: Breaking News on Twitter: http://twitter.com/georgebkk

Does anybody know by any chance who these 29 countries are, which have issued travel alerts to Thailand?

Thanks...

[hansnl]

The Tourism Authority of Thailand (TAT) yesterday announced a new campaign called "12 months, 7 Stars, 9 Suns" to boost domestic tourism all year round.

Today, Tourism Minister Chumpol Silapa-archa will present a tourism rescue package that includes insurance coverage for foreign tourists and preventive measures against the flu.

Hmmmmmmm.

I see.

So this is the right time for the banks to charge 150 baht for ATM-withdrawals.

Of course, that will help very much too!

And now is also the very right time for the immigration authorities to finish off the remainder of the tourists by changing the rules again.

Making it, for example, near impossible to stay longer as 30 days, and shorter as 15 days.

Maybe throw in a minimum spending per day?

Of course to withdraw from the ATM in portions of maximum 5000 baht per withdrawal.

Any more bright ideas, maybe?

Any ideas, people?

[hansnl]

Lastly i will confirm again , the common sense way to avoid paying this 150 baht fee too often is stop taking out small amounts , withdraw as much as you can in one go. Simple economics eh?

I use the ATM 20+ times per month and withdraw the maximum each time so it will still cost me over 3,000thb per month in charges in addition to what I already pay with my issuing bank.

Simply unacceptable.

I think this should be dealt with in another forum but its just not right for you to be using the ATM so many times. I don't see why you don't open a bank account like HSBC for example and get the money sent from the UK and then withdraw the cash in Thailand? Is this not possible for you? Certainly possible if you are in BKK. I do this when in BKK and it costs me NOTHING to send the money from the UK and NOTHING to withdraw it , although this does involve going into the branch itself..not possible for everyone i guess but works for me .

Last time I sent some money from Natwest to KTB, I was charged 25 pounds by Natwest.

Also the rate used by natwest for converting pounds in bahts was very bad.

Sending pounds makes it a little better.

But the charge remains 25 pounds

When sending euros to natwest from Holland, Natwest charges me 7 pounds.

Which is illegal by Euro rules.

Dear brethren, the banks deliverd the financial crisis to the world, made a lot of people poorer, costing jobs, and more of the same.

You think they learned?

[hardy1943]

May as well allow the Banks to throw EXTRA SERVICE CHARGES on Foreign Cash Withdrawals..

Never do I cease to be surprised by the behavior here .

AMAZING THAILAND

They are certainly number 1 to know how to screw things up

[animatic]

Of course this is for FOREIGN CASH withdrawals.

International fees applied and multiple banks in the chain.

I think it is WAY too much, but some people don't open accounts here

just for a two week vacation.

I have my cash wired in and in reasonably large chunks,

then it's 25 baht or so for interbank fees.

Considering you can get your head bashed in for 1,000 baht

I kinda like to keep lower cash on hand... hand it over and then go away.

[brahmburgers]

Siam Commercial bank allows more than 20,000 baht per day ATM withdrawal limit - if you have an account there. However, you have to make a phone call to their special rep, located in Bkk (can be done from any bank branch). If you request 100,000 baht, for example, you still can only take Bt.20,000 per transaction, but you can do five transactions in a row.

As for promo packages: it's at least partly a reflection of inflated prices. Let's face it, hotels, resorts, restaurants, airllines, all charge as high as the market will bear. Often times, the higher prices are a way to show off how high class they are. For example, if I open a classy hotel, and all the nearby competitors are charging Bt.4,000/night - I might charge Bt.5,000/night to show that I'm superior to the others.

All business people want to make as much money as possible. If it means marking things up ridiculously, so be it - if there are customers who will pay it.

The ww recession, coupled with Thailand's slipping image as a tourist destination. is bringing prices down (for resorts etc) from ridiculously high to very high. So prices may become a bit less insane.

Personally, I'd like to see prices be reasonable without all the hoopla about discounts, etc. Message to tourist venues: figure what your most reasonable price is, and then post it. Oh, and don't do multi-tiered pricing based on whether a person has hair his arms, freckles, or a pointy nose. Farang consider that racist, period.

Oh, and compulsory tips. No way. If customers like the quality of the service, they'll tip. Any place that tags on an automatic tip will never get me as a repeat customer. No exceptions, ....plus, I'll tell anyone I know that the posted price (for your product or service) is not the actual price. Automatic tips are an underhanded way of padding the bill. It's an ugly biz practice.

[slipperx]

Thai hotels are offering better deals than before and Khao Lak certainly gives the Thai Resident 2,199 a night rooms as I was only there last week (it came down just after Songkran). However better deals are being given everywhere around the world as hotels are being hurt as people reign in their spending after the rape of the world by the US financial system gleefully and greedily replicated in Europe. SO now no one has much money except black market money, no one is looking to buy cars, overpriced property - especially here where the best you can get is a 30 year lease on poor terms and no real security of tenure especially if you have a lousy lawyer - and there are plenty of them.

So what does Thailand want? Another poster had it right - high end free spending quality tourists who stay in fancy resorts and put next to nothing in the local economies - their money is spent in the high end resorts because they basically trap them in there. Who is going to spend a hand full of cash on taxis to get to an alternative restaurant which are usually some good distance away from these high end resorts. Believe me the prices are astronomical for food.

What does Thailand not want? Single sex interested tourists, backpackers who haven't got a %^& to ^&*# in, long stay tourists, actually if possible just get the spending money from everyone before they leave their home country and don't let them travel would be the optimum solution. However the world is not a Thai utopia!

People get hung up on the Thais hurting themselves, in an apparently stupid show of intellect. The fact is those in a position to generate revenue for the local economy do'nt give a rats ass about their countrymen or much else as long as they have a good income (from various means!!!!) and secure pension. The lack of thought maybe because of sheer stupidity but I think it is more likely because of sheer ambivalence. Introducing extra charges by the banks (I don't care how many times you withdraw at once but carrying loads of cash on your person these days is lunacy and just asking for trouble), double pricing, overcharging by tuk-tuks (yes you guessed I live in Phuket), overcharging at golf courses (120 quid a round is plain stupid if you want some customers), overcharging at just about every place you go if you are a foreigner, a biased police force if any trouble befalls you and the 'Farang is always wrong and fair game to be ripped off' attitude by nearly every Thia you meet, and then make visas and rules about as complicated and open to corrupt interpretation as possible, does not make for the best impression. People are not stupid, they see these things - they notice and go back and tell their friends who end up picking a different destination (about the same as Spain 30 years ago and look where that attitude got THEM - whatever happened to Benidorm?).

Thailand's neighbours are doing a good job of improving their image, making visas more friendly, improving infrastructure and generally trying to be more foreigner friendly because they know otherwise they will lose their business. Thailand is doing the opposite - WHY?

The MOST beneficial person to have here is someone who lives here permanently (yes you need to make sure they are not taking jobs away and so on in a sensible fashion). These are the people who go to the local shops, often help out in the community and generally put money into the Thai economy - they are generally a benefit - they buy cars, support local restaurants and bars and local shops and businesses for day to day living items and building homes. These are BY FAR the most beneficial foreigners to Thailand and they are treated abysmally.

The NEXT most beneficial person to have is the mid range tourist - they stay in mid range hotels, travel around, might be with children and also spend in the local restaurants and so on - again putting money into the economy. I don't see so many offers directed at these tourists.

The NEXT is the backpacker - whilst not having much to spend he is your future tourist probably and travels around putting his small amounts of money into the local economies buying food and cheap accommodation - not chucking his money at the high class and often foreign controlled hotels.

Last on the list is the Sex Tourist - well maybe not last since at least he supplements the north eastern family incomes. The High Spenders come last in my book benefitting primarily the high end hotels and fancy shops with little trickle down benefit to the basic economy.

When Thailand finally gets it's kick up the backside which is rapidly on it's way, perhaps some rationality (yes a strange word here I know) might enlighten the minds of those affected to look at which side of the slice their bread is buttered and start treating their customers with some respect. Perhaps this hardship will bring some measure of pruning to the stupid visa rules (from Thailand's perspective AND that of the visitor or long stayer), some reduction in the racist nature of the society - for their nationalistic ways are racist - some simplification in business & property acquisition, and a fairer taxation regime that taxes foreign and Thai businesses on a similar footing in fact as well as in law.

I somehow don;t think a few hotel discounts are going to be the saviour of the tourist industry here. It is in for a very bleak time despite all the nonsense you here from the industry and it will need a SEA change in attitude from the top down to get things back on track. When Thailand stops being so egocentric and realise their weaknesses of which there are many, maybe some benefits may arrive

On the other hand don't hold your breath!!

[JetsetBkk]

...I kinda like to keep lower cash on hand... hand it over and then go away.

How many times have you had to hand it over?

[Jiu-Jitsu]

yaketyak: I would like to comment on this 150 baht ATM charge..... blah, blah, blah

Lastly i will confirm again , the common sense way to avoid paying this 150 baht fee too often is stop taking out small amounts , withdraw as much as you can in one go. Simple economics eh?

We are still waiting for you to inform us about the ATM you use to withdraw 100,000 baht in a single transaction, as you claimed earlier..

Were you lying?, Troll?

[Lancashirelad]

Haa bloody Haa..!!

On your first point, prices here in Tescos are not unsimilar to prices in Tescos Uk. In fact here two litres of cow's milk is 80 baht (1 pound 60 pence) in the Uk two litres will set you back 75 pence at the most in tesco's.

Really? where? Looks more like £1.49 to me. Tesco milk

The price of household cleaner's, baby formula milk, potatoes, broccolli and even rice (god forbid!) are all on a par with UK prices. Women's cosmetics here are also no cheaper than those in the UK. - so what of your bananas and apples?!

I was in London last may and crumpets do not cost 3 pounds they cost 58 pence. The only thing cheaper here of any validity is rent. And you should try sharing a sh*thole with your mates for any length of time..!!

My wife's sister is over-qualified for her job educationally and also with alot of experience managing in property agencies and massage parlours.

not much difference there then.

She neither has the funds, nor would like to take the risk of starting her own business (which in the current climate would almost certainly fail). Of course she realises that she is in a dead end job but then of course she is not the only one. Who can blame the multitude of young women in a similar position for believing that their only hope of a good life is to find a good boyfriend or husband.

[KBTexas]

So the tourist arrives thinking wow what a deal and then they are charged 150 baht fee for using a ATM in Thailand. Ridiculous

Love this place -but it makes me crazy

I wish I could get away for 150 baht. I have an account for my wife that she uses to withdraw money from the ATM, and our BANK charges $5 (~175 baht) + Visa charges 3%, and that is PER TRANSACTION! (I had to tell her to stop looking to see what the balance was!) If she uses the card at a store, the charge is a straight 3% from Visa. So it is not just Thai banks that see the ATM as a profit center.