From: At Least 77 Injured In Bangkok Clashes

[photojourn]

With both Sondhi Limthongkul's son Jittanart and Jakrapob Penkair talking about a "third hand" and inner and outer circles it is quite likely the red's fell into a trap when they were sent to the Ministry to intercept Abhisit. It would also explain the delay in implementing the state of emergency - as Abhisit try to ensure he had the support he needed - and why the state of emergency was in place for so long.

the so-called blue shirts were around the red shirts rally on Saturday night and one was caught in the crowd with a flare pistol converted to take shotgun cartridges. The gun was loaded when the person was apprehended.

[Koo82]

Police on Thursday said they were investigating claims that two men whose bodies were found gagged and bound in the Chao Phraya river were red-shirt protesters.

The bodies of Chaiyaporn Kanthang, 29, and Nattapong Poongdee, 23, were found near two piers close to Phra Pin Klao bridge on Wednesday morning.

They had suffered head injuries and apparently been hit with a hard object. They were gagged and their hands were tied behind their backs, police said.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/1407...s-of-udd-deaths

-- Bangkok Post 2009/04/27

Edited April 28, 2009 by sbk

[webfact]

I did not say there were death or there were not. I just base on photos, youtube videos and news to comment.

You know your dear leader in hiding is a very cowardly person.

Where was he during the "FIGHT for True Democracy"?

Don't you realize you and your fellow red cohorts are used as canon fodder for your beloved leaders own benefit?

Why do you repeat only this ideological BS instead of voicing your own UNBIASED opinion??? You are a puppet on a string as well!

[ThNiner]

where do you got your numbers from?

on a pro PAD website i read about 2 death and 400 injured. but does't say if they there also counting police men.

I got those numbers from the latest report on ASTV yesterday evening in the "Roo Tan Prated Thai" show which was hosted by Dr. Jermsak Pintong. The person who mentioned the numbers was a senator whose name escapes me right now.

Should I believe you who, amoung many other things, claimed that Chaisit Shinnawatra was never the chairman of Siamgas or the senator?

[Koo82]

The reds don't have supports that PAD have. All the reds have a number of people. Before the big rally 8th April, they said they had small vehicles going through streets in Bangkok having banners and speaker to ask people to join the rally. I guess it should be the same kind of pickup politicians use for election campaigns.

After the blood morning at Din Daeng, before DStation was shut down, I still heard Jatupon called people to come to Government House.

It was kid stuff to set up the scene of reds trying to burn the city and to kill people at Nang Lerng.

This video clip shows the yellows had red shirts with them:

[Koo82]

I did not say there were death or there were not. I just base on photos, youtube videos and news to comment.

You know your dear leader in hiding is a very cowardly person.

Do you know who was the first person flying up by helicopter from Royal Cliff Beach Resort where the Asean Summit was held this month?

Wasn't Chamlong set a few hundred women and children to block him from being caught?

Do you know Khun T survived a car bomb before they made a coup?

If I was judged by the whole set appointed by the Army, I would run too. Not only Khun T. However if I were a PAD leader leading people to block Suvarnabhumi, I wouldn't run.

But wait, Sondhi is the victim now. I chatted with people near my house last year, they said some PAD will be out because they know too many secrets. Same as after you build your house, you will remove the frame works.

[justanothercybertosser]

where do you got your numbers from?

on a pro PAD website i read about 2 death and 400 injured. but does't say if they there also counting police men.

I got those numbers from the latest report on ASTV yesterday evening in the "Roo Tan Prated Thai" show which was hosted by Dr. Jermsak Pintong. The person who mentioned the numbers was a senator whose name escapes me right now.

Should I believe you who, amoung many other things, claimed that Chaisit Shinnawatra was never the chairman of Siamgas or the senator?

Absolute rubbish.

There were two dead on Oct. 7 - Angkana, or "Nong Bow", the cause of her death is still debated as there are two conflicting investigation results, and the other an ex-police officer whose name i am too lazy to look up now, head of the Buriram PAD guards. His cause of death is clear - he died when explosives he transported in his car went off. This has been confirmed beyond reasonable doubt.

There were about 400 PAD injured, several badly injured, some even maimed, from the chinese teargas grenades police used, and many whose injuries were neglegible. There were three police officers wounded by gunfire from PAD, several injured by a pick-up truck driven into them, and countless officers that were injured by slingshot projectiles.

Whatever you get from ASTV is nothing but poison propaganda.

[Koo82]

PAD had gun and they killed people:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5s_FUm49v08...feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8S20VaSWTo...feature=related

Trying to say the reds killed people just doesn't make sense to me.

[ThNiner]

where do you got your numbers from?

on a pro PAD website i read about 2 death and 400 injured. but does't say if they there also counting police men.

I got those numbers from the latest report on ASTV yesterday evening in the "Roo Tan Prated Thai" show which was hosted by Dr. Jermsak Pintong. The person who mentioned the numbers was a senator whose name escapes me right now.

Should I believe you who, amoung many other things, claimed that Chaisit Shinnawatra was never the chairman of Siamgas or the senator?

Absolute rubbish.

There were two dead on Oct. 7 - Angkana, or "Nong Bow", the cause of her death is still debated as there are two conflicting investigation results, and the other an ex-police officer whose name i am too lazy to look up now, head of the Buriram PAD guards. His cause of death is clear - he died when explosives he transported in his car went off. This has been confirmed beyond reasonable doubt.

There were about 400 PAD injured, several badly injured, some even maimed, from the chinese teargas grenades police used, and many whose injuries were neglegible. There were three police officers wounded by gunfire from PAD, several injured by a pick-up truck driven into them, and countless officers that were injured by slingshot projectiles.

Whatever you get from ASTV is nothing but poison propaganda.

Yeah, just 2 dead and 400+ injured. That's really nothing, I see. It does make me feel a lot better, you know. I now feel that Thaksin, Samak and Somchai really did nothing wrong. They were really innocent because only 2 were dead and 400+ were injured, instead of 11 dead and 600+ injured. There's really nothing wrong with just 2 dead and 400+ injured.

[Koo82]

Yeah, just 2 dead and 400+ injured. That's really nothing, I see. It does make me feel a lot better, you know. I now feel that Thaksin, Samak and Somchai really did nothing wrong. They were really innocent because only 2 were dead and 400+ were injured, instead of 11 dead and 600+ injured. There's really nothing wrong with just 2 dead and 400+ injured.

I read the old posts for the 7th October and all I can see is police using tear gas. There was one photo of a police with a short gun. So there were 2 death and 400+ injured. Khun Somchai and his people were accused of killing.

And on 13th April so many soldiers with war guns (using to shoot enemy) and tear gas shooting since 3:30am or 4:00am and there was no death and 100+ injured. No one accused Abhisit and his people for using weapons to the reds because they say there is no death. But no interviews with the reds who were at Din Daeng were on tv.

All we can do is to wait. People lost their family members in the past protest still look for the dead bodies for 17 years.

Edited April 28, 2009 by Koo82

[Koo82]

Only the yellows fight for democracy (strictly NO "one person one vote" )

[ThNiner]

Yeah, just 2 dead and 400+ injured. That's really nothing, I see. It does make me feel a lot better, you know. I now feel that Thaksin, Samak and Somchai really did nothing wrong. They were really innocent because only 2 were dead and 400+ were injured, instead of 11 dead and 600+ injured. There's really nothing wrong with just 2 dead and 400+ injured.

I read the old posts for the 7th October and all I can see is police using tear gas. There was one photo of a police with a short gun. So there were 2 death and 400+ injured. Khun Somchai and his people was accused of killing.

And on 13th April so many soldiers with war guns (using to shoot enemy) and tear gas shooting since 3:30am or 4:00am and there was no death and 100+ injured. No one accused Abhisit and his people for using weapons to the reds because they say there is no death. But no interviews with the reds who were at Din Daeng were on tv.

All we can do is to wait. People lost their family members in the past protest still look for the dead bodies for 17 years.

Koo82, tear gas was never used during the Songkran riot, and those guns were shooting either blank or paper bullets at the terrorists, err I mean the peaceful democratic innocent protesters. That's why there was never any dead terrorists, err I mean peaceful protesters....and I'm going to bed.

Edited April 28, 2009 by LivinginKata

[HagenvonTronje]

Yeah, just 2 dead and 400+ injured. That's really nothing, I see. It does make me feel a lot better, you know. I now feel that Thaksin, Samak and Somchai really did nothing wrong. They were really innocent because only 2 were dead and 400+ were injured, instead of 11 dead and 600+ injured. There's really nothing wrong with just 2 dead and 400+ injured.

it would be nice if we could analyse that without stupid bitching. calling others liar and get caught with a lie ...

hmy pictures above had shown one side, on piece of a puzzle. if you look in the manager online you get a different pictute.. people get things in memory wrong and news are sending misleading reports or just only one part of the sigsaw.

and if i ask if there are any reports about the investigation on that two dead residents or who brough the gas trucks there, - that doesn't makes me to an thaksin lover.

that bus driver,who looks like shot dead and that shaky video, but just get a blow on the head with a stick, his identity was very quick public.

the army or investigation services did videotape the fights as well, they did make arrests, a culprit should be quickly found. like that bus driver, who claimed he is not a red shirt, just wanted bring his bus home (maybe he could go home for free for that spin).

so why not make further investigation and find the gas truck driver, the attacker at nang learng(?), if there is further evidence that they are regular red shirt security - you got them. put that people on the front page and show the real clear bad guys..

add: http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp.../387122/1/.html AFP from nov.2. On October 7, the campaign boiled over into violence after police fired tear gas on PAD protesters trying to block parliament. Two people were killed and nearly 500 injured in the resulting clashes. also some other incidents got mentioned.

edited to add link

Edited April 28, 2009 by HagenvonTronje

[justanothercybertosser]

Yeah, just 2 dead and 400+ injured. That's really nothing, I see. It does make me feel a lot better, you know. I now feel that Thaksin, Samak and Somchai really did nothing wrong. They were really innocent because only 2 were dead and 400+ were injured, instead of 11 dead and 600+ injured. There's really nothing wrong with just 2 dead and 400+ injured.

One dead that has been proven to have died from his own explosives. The cause of death of the other person is still contested. These are facts.

There are many things wrong, such as claiming that 11 have died, and flaming Koo82.

[kurtgruen]

Yeah, just 2 dead and 400+ injured. That's really nothing, I see. It does make me feel a lot better, you know. I now feel that Thaksin, Samak and Somchai really did nothing wrong. They were really innocent because only 2 were dead and 400+ were injured, instead of 11 dead and 600+ injured. There's really nothing wrong with just 2 dead and 400+ injured.

One dead that has been proven to have died from his own explosives. The cause of death of the other person is still contested. These are facts.

There are many things wrong, such as claiming that 11 have died, and flaming Koo82.

I've seen at least two dead, including their funerals and the burning ceremony of one, whom the crown Princess called a hero. Cause of death, as per forensic autopsy... Weapon's grade teargas, shot in by the police, against PAD demostrators. I have also watched the videos and live news feeds, of police aiming their guns straight at the PAD demonstrators that day, watched truck tires fly into the air, when they were hit from whatever the police shot at them and seen the guy with the blown off leg. Forensic experts blamed most of it on the weapons grade teargas, used by the police.

I'm tired to have the words PROVEN thrown around, by a bunch Thaksin/Red supporters, when in fact, it is not true. They also try to say, that it was proven, that the guy in the truck blew himself up, which is another lie.

When you guys come up with so much bull...., one has to restrain himself, not to start flaming.

Anyways, I guess you must be one of Geobbels disciples, who said that if you tell a lie over and over again, sooner or later people will believe it, or something along those lines. (Paraphrasing)

Have a good night everyone ;-)

[justanothercybertosser]

I've seen at least two dead, including their funerals and the burning ceremony of one, whom the crown Princess called a hero. Cause of death, as per forensic autopsy... Weapon's grade teargas, shot in by the police, against PAD demostrators. I have also watched the videos and live news feeds, of police aiming their guns straight at the PAD demonstrators that day, watched truck tires fly into the air, when they were hit from whatever the police shot at them and seen the guy with the blown off leg. Forensic experts blamed most of it on the weapons grade teargas, used by the police.

I'm tired to have the words PROVEN thrown around, by a bunch Thaksin/Red supporters, when in fact, it is not true. They also try to say, that it was proven, that the guy in the truck blew himself up, which is another lie.

When you guys come up with so much bull...., one has to restrain himself, not to start flaming.

Anyways, I guess you must be one of Geobbels disciples, who said that if you tell a lie over and over again, sooner or later people will believe it, or something along those lines. (Paraphrasing)

Have a good night everyone ;-)

In the case of Angkhana, a 28 year called old "Nong" Bow (usually 28 year old women are not given the prefix "nong" in front of her name - that is reserved for young girls, but it made the issue far more emotive so it could be better exploited by PAD), there have been two investigations - one came to the result that she died of the teargas, and the other, that teargas was definitely not the cause of her death, as C4 was found on her shirt and brassiere. Until a third investigation is made, her cause of death is disputed.

The other dead protester was an ex-police officer heading the Buriram PAD guards. He blew up in his car - both hands were missing, the corpse was thrown out of the car, and only one leg remained inside the car, which makes is more than clear where and how the explosion happened - his own explosives went up in his hands. That happens at times.

And before anyone claims that PAD did not use their own explosive devices - there is more than enough footage available of PAD with ping pong bombs, and PAD guards arrested with such.

Don't restrain yourself, but please for once come up with a reasonable argument, and a statement that is proven by evidence and fact, and not just your opinion.

Edited April 28, 2009 by justanothercybertosser

[LivinginKata]

A number of sarcastic & flaming posts have been removed.

If it continues this topic will be closed.

[samgrowth]

In the case of Angkhana, a 28 year called old "Nong" Bow (usually 28 year old women are not given the prefix "nong" in front of her name - that is reserved for young girls, but it made the issue far more emotive so it could be better exploited by PAD), there have been two investigations - one came to the result that she died of the teargas, and the other, that teargas was definitely not the cause of her death, as C4 was found on her shirt and brassiere. Until a third investigation is made, her cause of death is disputed.

The other dead protester was an ex-police officer heading the Buriram PAD guards. He blew up in his car - both hands were missing, the corpse was thrown out of the car, and only one leg remained inside the car, which makes is more than clear where and how the explosion happened - his own explosives went up in his hands. That happens at times.

And before anyone claims that PAD did not use their own explosive devices - there is more than enough footage available of PAD with ping pong bombs, and PAD guards arrested with such.

Don't restrain yourself, but please for once come up with a reasonable argument, and a statement that is proven by evidence and fact, and not just your opinion.

I second that.

[sriracha john]

Perhaps we should be reminded that the investigation that exonerated the police in Nong Bo's death was conducted by....

the police.

[HagenvonTronje]

Perhaps we should be reminded that the investigation that exonerated the police in Nong Bo's death was conducted by....

the police.

and the gas tank trucks, who had done there the investigation?

[Ricardo]

the other an ex-police officer whose name i am too lazy to look up now, head of the Buriram PAD guards. His cause of death is clear - he died when explosives he transported in his car went off. This has been confirmed beyond reasonable doubt.

One dead that has been proven to have died from his own explosives.

Isn't this death the one that Khun Pornthip, the widely-respected internationally-known forensic-scientist, concluded was due to the police firing an elderly/explosive chinese-gas-grenade into his car, which then caused his LNG-tank to explode ?

I would suggest that the police-allegation, that he was transporting explosives, has not been "proven" or "confirmed beyond reasonable doubt" as you suggest. Unless you accept everything the BiBs say without hesitation.

[justanothercybertosser]

Isn't this death the one that Khun Pornthip, the widely-respected internationally-known forensic-scientist, concluded was due to the police firing an elderly/explosive chinese-gas-grenade into his car, which then caused his LNG-tank to explode ?

I would suggest that the police-allegation, that he was transporting explosives, has not been "proven" or "confirmed beyond reasonable doubt" as you suggest. Unless you accept everything the BiBs say without hesitation.

Dr. Pornthip is a forensic scientist, not an explosives expert. But that fact is usually forgotten in the cult surrounding her. One of the valid criticisms against her is that nowadays she is all over the place, and does put her head (and reputation) out in areas she has no internationally recognized qualifications whatsoever. She has not conducted the autopsies herself either, has only confirmed the results of other forensics, as part of an investigation committee headed by a so called independent organization staffed by people that have been seen attending the PAD protests, and who have not seen it worthwhile to conduct any investigations into the violence committed against police that day, and the role the PAD leadership has played in this.

The National Human Rights Commision's and Asset Scrutiny Commission's investigations have been completely rigged. Why Dr. Pornthip has taken part in this charade is a question that many people are asking. The answer very possibly lies in past favors having had to be repaid.

I would suggest not to listen to just one side, but try to find out what the other side has to say. Unfortunately, this cannot be done by just reading the English language media in Thailand, because the arguments of the other side are not publicised, or just in very distorted versions.

[sriracha john]

Isn't this death the one that Khun Pornthip, the widely-respected internationally-known forensic-scientist, concluded was due to the police firing an elderly/explosive chinese-gas-grenade into his car, which then caused his LNG-tank to explode ?

I would suggest that the police-allegation, that he was transporting explosives, has not been "proven" or "confirmed beyond reasonable doubt" as you suggest. Unless you accept everything the BiBs say without hesitation.

Dr. Pornthip is a forensic scientist, not an explosives expert. But that fact is usually forgotten in the cult surrounding her. One of the valid criticisms against her is that nowadays she is all over the place, and does put her head (and reputation) out in areas she has no internationally recognized qualifications whatsoever. She has not conducted the autopsies herself either, has only confirmed the results of other forensics, as part of an investigation committee headed by a so called independent organization staffed by people that have been seen attending the PAD protests, and who have not seen it worthwhile to conduct any investigations into the violence committed against police that day, and the role the PAD leadership has played in this.

The National Human Rights Commision's and Asset Scrutiny Commission's investigations have been completely rigged. Why Dr. Pornthip has taken part in this charade is a question that many people are asking. The answer very possibly lies in past favors having had to be repaid.

I would suggest not to listen to just one side, but try to find out what the other side has to say. Unfortunately, this cannot be done by just reading the English language media in Thailand, because the arguments of the other side are not publicised, or just in very distorted versions.

The Asset Scrutiny Commission was ended on July 1, 2008.

The events of Nong Bo's occurred on October 7, 2008.

The Asset Scrutiny Commission had absolutely nothing to do with investigating the events of October 7th.

Is this typical of the "undistorted" argument from "the other side"?

Edited April 29, 2009 by sriracha john

[photojourn]

Yeah, just 2 dead and 400+ injured. That's really nothing, I see. It does make me feel a lot better, you know. I now feel that Thaksin, Samak and Somchai really did nothing wrong. They were really innocent because only 2 were dead and 400+ were injured, instead of 11 dead and 600+ injured. There's really nothing wrong with just 2 dead and 400+ injured.

I read the old posts for the 7th October and all I can see is police using tear gas. There was one photo of a police with a short gun. So there were 2 death and 400+ injured. Khun Somchai and his people was accused of killing.

And on 13th April so many soldiers with war guns (using to shoot enemy) and tear gas shooting since 3:30am or 4:00am and there was no death and 100+ injured. No one accused Abhisit and his people for using weapons to the reds because they say there is no death. But no interviews with the reds who were at Din Daeng were on tv.

All we can do is to wait. People lost their family members in the past protest still look for the dead bodies for 17 years.

Koo82, tear gas was never used during the Songkran riot, and those guns were shooting either blank or paper bullets at the terrorists, err I mean the peaceful democratic innocent protesters. That's why there was never any dead terrorists, err I mean peaceful protesters....and I'm going to bed.

Actually you are totally WRONG. Teargas WAS used and the military were firing LIVE rounds. None of the photographs taken of recovered shell casings show crimps marks at the top as is standard with blank rounds and NONE of the photographs show the military rifles equipped with BFAs (Blank Firing Attachments). Without a BFA fitted the rounds need to be ejected manually. See BFA.

The reason you would need to sight and aim at fleeing protesters if using blank rounds is?

[justanothercybertosser]

The Asset Scrutiny Commission was ended on July 1, 2008.

The events of Nong Bo's occurred on October 7, 2008.

The Asset Scrutiny Commission had absolutely nothing to do with investigating the events of October 7th.

Is this typical of the "undistorted" argument from "the other side"?

You are right.

I meant to say the National Anti Corruption Commission.

Edited April 29, 2009 by justanothercybertosser

[ThNiner]

Actually you are totally WRONG. Teargas WAS used and the military were firing LIVE rounds. None of the photographs taken of recovered shell casings show crimps marks at the top as is standard with blank rounds and NONE of the photographs show the military rifles equipped with BFAs (Blank Firing Attachments). Without a BFA fitted the rounds need to be ejected manually. See BFA.

The reason you would need to sight and aim at fleeing protesters if using blank rounds is?

Teargas was never used. Where's your picture evidence of this? As for the reason the soldiers needed to sight and aim at "fleeing protesters"., it perhaps was becuase they were firing paper bullets (which I said earlier)?

[hammered]

Actually from what I know tear gas, live rounds and blank rounds were used.

There were some ex-military(US?) dudes on this baord explaining what was happening as we were watching the live pics: It was pointed out that some troops were manually cocking ther guns and these were likely firing blanks due to lower compression charges not being able to sustain continuous automatic fire. The Automatic fire -live rounds- was into the air, which could be seen most of the time on all local and international footage with live rounds fired direct into buses which were pock marked.

The military dudes and there were several all said that firning live round son auto direct into the crowd would have created carnage and one comment iirc was it would have bneen like the inside of a butchers shop with dead bodies and body parts everywhere.

That also fits with what would have happened from later conversations I have had with ex-military friends.

The BBC or CNN also reporte don the soldiers setting off "harmless explosives to scare demonstrators".

Whatever, considering the widespread nature of the violence and the threats to residents lives the clearance operation seems to have resulted in remarkably few casualties, which is good.

In 1992 journos were kept in a hotel while demonstrators were shot and even then when exiting evidence was clearly visible. In this day and age of the mobile phone camera and digicam there would almost certainly be multi pics of dead bodies corroborating each other by now if there were a lot of death. Is it really also possible to imaghine that the Thai army which lostits APCs to demonstartors the day before suddenly became so effcient that they could kill and disppear people and carry out such an efficient clean up operation that all evidence such as blood and body parts disappeared. It is also questionable whether the Thai military is such an undivided organization that they wouldnt have had leaks by now.

[ThNiner]

Actually from what I know tear gas, live rounds and blank rounds were used.

There were some ex-military(US?) dudes on this baord explaining what was happening as we were watching the live pics: It was pointed out that some troops were manually cocking ther guns and these were likely firing blanks due to lower compression charges not being able to sustain continuous automatic fire. The Automatic fire -live rounds- was into the air, which could be seen most of the time on all local and international footage with live rounds fired direct into buses which were pock marked.

The military dudes and there were several all said that firning live round son auto direct into the crowd would have created carnage and one comment iirc was it would have bneen like the inside of a butchers shop with dead bodies and body parts everywhere.

That also fits with what would have happened from later conversations I have had with ex-military friends.

The BBC or CNN also reporte don the soldiers setting off "harmless explosives to scare demonstrators".

Whatever, considering the widespread nature of the violence and the threats to residents lives the clearance operation seems to have resulted in remarkably few casualties, which is good.

In 1992 journos were kept in a hotel while demonstrators were shot and even then when exiting evidence was clearly visible. In this day and age of the mobile phone camera and digicam there would almost certainly be multi pics of dead bodies corroborating each other by now if there were a lot of death. Is it really also possible to imaghine that the Thai army which lostits APCs to demonstartors the day before suddenly became so effcient that they could kill and disppear people and carry out such an efficient clean up operation that all evidence such as blood and body parts disappeared. It is also questionable whether the Thai military is such an undivided organization that they wouldnt have had leaks by now.

Thanks a lot krab khun Hammered for your very accurate explanation and depiction of what happened. I thought tear gas was never used, as I seemed to remember that Abhisit never mentioned it. But it seems that my memory isn't really that reliable. Anyway, like you said the most important and impressive outcome o the whole thing was that there was no deaths. Khob khun krab.

[justanothercybertosser]

Actually from what I know tear gas, live rounds and blank rounds were used.

There were some ex-military(US?) dudes on this baord explaining what was happening as we were watching the live pics: It was pointed out that some troops were manually cocking ther guns and these were likely firing blanks due to lower compression charges not being able to sustain continuous automatic fire. The Automatic fire -live rounds- was into the air, which could be seen most of the time on all local and international footage with live rounds fired direct into buses which were pock marked.

The military dudes and there were several all said that firning live round son auto direct into the crowd would have created carnage and one comment iirc was it would have bneen like the inside of a butchers shop with dead bodies and body parts everywhere.

That also fits with what would have happened from later conversations I have had with ex-military friends.

The BBC or CNN also reporte don the soldiers setting off "harmless explosives to scare demonstrators".

Whatever, considering the widespread nature of the violence and the threats to residents lives the clearance operation seems to have resulted in remarkably few casualties, which is good.

In 1992 journos were kept in a hotel while demonstrators were shot and even then when exiting evidence was clearly visible. In this day and age of the mobile phone camera and digicam there would almost certainly be multi pics of dead bodies corroborating each other by now if there were a lot of death. Is it really also possible to imaghine that the Thai army which lostits APCs to demonstartors the day before suddenly became so effcient that they could kill and disppear people and carry out such an efficient clean up operation that all evidence such as blood and body parts disappeared. It is also questionable whether the Thai military is such an undivided organization that they wouldnt have had leaks by now.

There are two spots that are disputed and where a small amount of people could have been killed.

The early morning assault at Din Daeng (where very few journalists were present, and no sufficient footage is available to make any judgment confirming either side of the argument), and in which also personal handguns were used by soldiers.

The second spot not much is known about is the fighting at night at Nang Leon/Saphan Khaow between Red Shirts and local residents/PAD.

There definitely was no massacre similar to May '92, but it is yet too early to conclude that there were no people killed, and no cover-up. What can be stated is that there is no proof so far, but there are reports of missing people. More time has to pass before making any clear statement on this issue.

[TAWP]

In the case of Angkhana, a 28 year called old "Nong" Bow (usually 28 year old women are not given the prefix "nong" in front of her name - that is reserved for young girls, but it made the issue far more emotive so it could be better exploited by PAD), there have been two investigations - one came to the result that she died of the teargas, and the other, that teargas was definitely not the cause of her death, as C4 was found on her shirt and brassiere. Until a third investigation is made, her cause of death is disputed.

Incorrect, the detection of C4 (RDX) wouldn't be any valid reason to say that the teargas canister wasn't the cause of the death as they are primed using RDX. It's frankly only disputed by a few hardcore reds. And some police, which frankly often is the same.

Dr. Pornthip is a forensic scientist, not an explosives expert.

The detection of RDX is their job. They don't have to know how to build or disassemble bombs to detect the residue.

Or you deny that?

The other dead protester was an ex-police officer heading the Buriram PAD guards. He blew up in his car - both hands were missing, the corpse was thrown out of the car, and only one leg remained inside the car, which makes is more than clear where and how the explosion happened - his own explosives went up in his hands. That happens at times.

The corpse wasn't thrown out of the car, a large chunk of his brain was found in the tree next to the car. The hands wasn't thrown out either as I could see, could you post any pictures?

Granted I only saw a video of pretty much the full event, but whatever...