3 Thais Killed, 1 Swedish Woman Injured In Shootings Near Khao San Rd

[SabaiBKK]

Statistically, Thailand may not be as dangerous as other places in the world but its reputation is what counts. Perception is everything. I.E...the very lame movie called Bangkok Dangerous, world-wide coverage of local crimes against tourists, rioting in the streets....it is all adding up to give Thailand the status of a no-go area for tourists and business investors. Sad because this is still a great place to live.

Yes I agree 100% Have friends back in Australia who planed a holiday to thai but have cancelled. The amount of bad press pouring out of thailand is flooding the world and turning tourists away in droves.

Bangkok dangerous, the movie, giving a bad name to Thailand ? have you only seen the movie???? yes the story line is lame , but the filming of Bangkok by the Pang brothers makes one want to come here, not make them scared. ( especially the scenes at the Caribbean )

[koto]

Hello, it is a sad thing for some people to think that killing or shooting people is a good thing. I feel sorry for the people killed and the families of the people killed. Most of the people go to Khao San Road to have a good time, but this is not acceptable social behavior. I hope more people in LOS can talk about this and understand that no one has the right to take another persons' life. Like in America, too many bad people can get a gun, and not enough of the good people have them. It sounds like this was not an random act so the businesses there will not suffer as much, but the police in Bangkok are good at getting the small people so maybe the shooter will be taken out of society and put in a cage.

What it is, Is what it is, Life goes on for some of us, (SHAME) Karma is alive and well, We all get what we give, He is getting his as I type, Soon to be dead or where he belongs.

I_BELIEVE.bmp

[daeng1212]

And "they" wonder why tourism is down

I know that it can (and does) happen everywhere but not with the frequency that it occurs in Thailand

I would like to see some statistics to back up this absurd statement. The Swedish woman wasn't even a target...she just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Statistics: Thailand ranked 14th highest / worst in murders per capita. Link -

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_...ders-per-capita

Notice, 7 of the top 13 countries are (I think) countries that were formed by the breakup of the Soviet Union, so if that breakup is disregarded, Thailand ranks 8th in the world in murders per capita. Thailand is also ranked 5th highest in the world in alcohol consumption per capita. Link -

http://sanpaworn.vissaventure.com/log/103/worlds-no-5

Edited May 5, 2009 by daeng1212

[fredKroket]

Statistically, Thailand may not be as dangerous as other places in the world but its reputation is what counts. Perception is everything. I.E...the very lame movie called Bangkok Dangerous, world-wide coverage of local crimes against tourists, rioting in the streets....it is all adding up to give Thailand the status of a no-go area for tourists and business investors. Sad because this is still a great place to live.

Yes I agree 100% Have friends back in Australia who planed a holiday to thai but have cancelled. The amount of bad press pouring out of thailand is flooding the world and turning tourists away in droves.

Bangkok dangerous, the movie, giving a bad name to Thailand ? have you only seen the movie???? yes the story line is lame , but the filming of Bangkok by the Pang brothers makes one want to come here, not make them scared. ( especially the scenes at the Caribbean )

Agreed, Bangkok Dangerous was only the name of the film, not a statement put out by their marketing team. I found the film quite "fluffy" and I'm sure Walt Disney would agree.....

[2Na]

what a bummer.

4 people dead in Kaosarn Rd.!

think about how many more would have died if the shootings were aimed to the other side of the street (ie. into the main road and not to the Burger King).

I know many people who work around there and feel lucky no familiar names were in this article.

This makes kind of stuff happening makes me feel helpless and somewhat but a little afraid about the country in which I chose to live (and most likely raise my kids at).

[fredKroket]

And "they" wonder why tourism is down

I know that it can (and does) happen everywhere but not with the frequency that it occurs in Thailand

I would like to see some statistics to back up this absurd statement. The Swedish woman wasn't even a target...she just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Statistics: Thailand ranked 14th highest / worst in murders per capita. Link -

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_...ders-per-capita

So besides Papua New Guinea, Thailand is the most murderous place to go in Asia, great! From what I could see it's approximately twice as dangerous as the USA. Some real great countries in the top 10 too, if the drug cartels or yardies don't get you the Russian mafia will!

Edited May 5, 2009 by fredKroket

[crocodilexp]

There's an old cliche about "lies, dam_n lies and statistics".

Personal experience. I like to walk around places I visit. In my 2 years in Bangkok, I spent 700+ hours walking around the city, frequently alone, often at ungodly hours, and sometimes in ungodly places (e.g. train track between Phetburi and Sukhumwit), but usually not both. Not once did I even feel threatened or uneasy, let along experience any sort of violence. For a big city, this is remarkable.

For comparison, I probably spent a total of ~50 hours walking in San Francisco, and got assaulted by a panhandler (managed to run away) ~9 pm near the downtown. There was also the "I should get out of here" feeling quite often. This in one of the wealthiest, best-run and safest American cities.

Of course, personal experience proves nothing, but the statistic about Thais murdering each other due to passion and unsettled business has nothing at all to do with average foreigner's safety. Note how a huge number of Farang spend a lot of time in less-then-salubrious places (lower Sukhumwit RLD at night) -- equivalent places in the west have a *much* higher crime rate.

[venturalaw]

Three Thais apparently died in this incident, but the majority of the concern seems to be for the Swedish bystander who was only injured. Seems a bit out of whack to me.

She was a bystander. That's why. You don't get that? I'll spell it out - assuming that the three Thai knew each other, or were relatied, they CHOSE to be involved in the conflict. By definition, a bystander does not so choose. Therefore, anyone could have been the bystander: ie you, me, anyone.

Hope this clears your confusion.

[turbotojo]

moral to the story(?) if you see Thai people arguing, stay clear.

If it appears they're drunk and there are weapons involved, duck for cover.

However, on the other side of the coin, there are some among us who might be inclined to step in to try and rescue someone being browbeat. pedestrianus emptor.

Hope they caught the a**hole with the gun - and get him to suffer the full weight of the law.

This happened in Pattaya a few years ago, 2 brits pulled a thai off a restarant owner that was getting slapped,, he returned later with a gun and killed 2 of them, as advised elsewhere, keep out of thai arguments, they dont value life as we do and dont consider the consequences of their actions, .

That hit the nail on the head. They don't consider anything from what they are thinking to what they are doing or about to do.. You notice it in every facet of Thai culture and their every day lives.

I just hope that the Thai Baht finally collapses like it was supposed to when the the airport was taken over. That will help me pay off my car sooner.

[fredKroket]

So if you visit http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_...me-total-crimes you'll see that Thailand has slipped to an impressive 20th place. I guess this is possibly because unlike many of the countries in the top 10 laws are not enforced, which means there is less crime here. Why doesn't T.A.T use these figures to get the tourists back?!

[Richard4849]

And "they" wonder why tourism is down

I know that it can (and does) happen everywhere but not with the frequency that it occurs in Thailand

I would like to see some statistics to back up this absurd statement. The Swedish woman wasn't even a target...she just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Statistics: Thailand ranked 14th highest / worst in murders per capita. Link -

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_...ders-per-capita

Interesting...not far off statistically from the Seychelles, one of the premier 5-star tourist destinations in the world.

In fact, these statistics tell you very little. Locals knocking each other off for romantic or business reasons or drug deals gone bad, etc., etc. are of absolutely no concern to any tourist. What matters is the rate of random, violent crime on the streets -- and specifically violent crime directed at tourists.

Given the number of tourist arrivals in Thailand (much, much more per capita than most of the other high murder rate countries in the top 15), I would bet anything that the per capita threat to foreigners in Thailand is among the lowest anywhere.

I have lived in Thailand for 20 years, and have never been the victim of any crime (violent or otherwise), nor has any foreigner among my acquaintances. In the city of my birth, though, my 80 year-old great aunt was savagely beaten by a mugger in broad daylight on a downtown street. I'd rather be on the streets of Bangkok any day.

[Richard4849]

Three Thais apparently died in this incident, but the majority of the concern seems to be for the Swedish bystander who was only injured. Seems a bit out of whack to me.

She was a bystander. That's why. You don't get that? I'll spell it out - assuming that the three Thai knew each other, or were relatied, they CHOSE to be involved in the conflict. By definition, a bystander does not so choose. Therefore, anyone could have been the bystander: ie you, me, anyone.

Hope this clears your confusion.

Why the tone?

[worldquester]

Posters really don't read the other posts here, do they? I still see people arguing that the woman (or others) shouldn't have gotten involved.

SHE DIDN'T GET INVOLVED. That was clarified in a follow-up post regarding the translation of the Swedish article. SHE WAS WALKING PAST AT THE WRONG TIME AND GOT SHOT IN THE BACK.

I always end up regretting reading the TV boards on the very rare occasions that I do. This thread is "another blow" to reading the TV forum.

[Tyke]

There's an old cliche about "lies, dam_n lies and statistics".

Personal experience. I like to walk around places I visit. In my 2 years in Bangkok, I spent 700+ hours walking around the city, frequently alone, often at ungodly hours, and sometimes in ungodly places (e.g. train track between Phetburi and Sukhumwit), but usually not both. Not once did I even feel threatened or uneasy, let along experience any sort of violence. For a big city, this is remarkable.

For comparison, I probably spent a total of ~50 hours walking in San Francisco, and got assaulted by a panhandler (managed to run away) ~9 pm near the downtown. There was also the "I should get out of here" feeling quite often. This in one of the wealthiest, best-run and safest American cities.

Of course, personal experience proves nothing, but the statistic about Thais murdering each other due to passion and unsettled business has nothing at all to do with average foreigner's safety. Note how a huge number of Farang spend a lot of time in less-then-salubrious places (lower Sukhumwit RLD at night) -- equivalent places in the west have a *much* higher crime rate.

So 1 incident in SF made you perpetually nervous there. 0 incidents in BKK made you feel perpetually safe there. I wonder what would happen if you experienced an incident in BKK? And it would only take 1 for you to start believing the stats.

Edited May 5, 2009 by Tyke

[fredKroket]

So if you visit http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_...me-total-crimes you'll see that Thailand has slipped to an impressive 20th place. I guess this is possibly because unlike many of the countries in the top 10 laws are not enforced, which means there is less crime here. Why doesn't T.A.T use these figures to get the tourists back?!

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_...s-with-firearms 3rd place in the world for murders with firearms!

[fredKroket]

Posters really don't read the other posts here, do they? I still see people arguing that the woman (or others) shouldn't have gotten involved.

SHE DIDN'T GET INVOLVED. That was clarified in a follow-up post regarding the translation of the Swedish article. SHE WAS WALKING PAST AT THE WRONG TIME AND GOT SHOT IN THE BACK.

I always end up regretting reading the TV boards on the very rare occasions that I do. This thread is "another blow" to reading the TV forum.

Regardless of if she was involved or not as the case may be, it highlights the need to be vigilant when Thais are arguing and steer clear as they are capable of anything without cause for consequences. The gun culture here is gaining epidemic proportions and with things on the slide will get worse.

[alstaxi]

And "they" wonder why tourism is down

I know that it can (and does) happen everywhere but not with the frequency that it occurs in Thailand

I would like to see some statistics to back up this absurd statement. The Swedish woman wasn't even a target...she just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Statistics: Thailand ranked 14th highest / worst in murders per capita. Link -

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_...ders-per-capita

Interesting...not far off statistically from the Seychelles, one of the premier 5-star tourist destinations in the world.

In fact, these statistics tell you very little. Locals knocking each other off for romantic or business reasons or drug deals gone bad, etc., etc. are of absolutely no concern to any tourist. What matters is the rate of random, violent crime on the streets -- and specifically violent crime directed at tourists.

Given the number of tourist arrivals in Thailand (much, much more per capita than most of the other high murder rate countries in the top 15), I would bet anything that the per capita threat to foreigners in Thailand is among the lowest anywhere.

I have lived in Thailand for 20 years, and have never been the victim of any crime (violent or otherwise), nor has any foreigner among my acquaintances. In the city of my birth, though, my 80 year-old great aunt was savagely beaten by a mugger in broad daylight on a downtown street. I'd rather be on the streets of Bangkok any day.

20 years and you nor any one you know has been a victim ? wow, you are very lucky. Do you consider extortion by the police a crime? If you havent paid a cop for something in 20 years you havent lived.

[webfact]

Posters really don't read the other posts here, do they? I still see people arguing that the woman (or others) shouldn't have gotten involved.

SHE DIDN'T GET INVOLVED. That was clarified in a follow-up post regarding the translation of the Swedish article. SHE WAS WALKING PAST AT THE WRONG TIME AND GOT SHOT IN THE BACK.

I always end up regretting reading the TV boards on the very rare occasions that I do. This thread is "another blow" to reading the TV forum.

Regardless of if she was involved or not as the case may be, it highlights the need to be vigilant when Thais are arguing and steer clear as they are capable of anything without cause for consequences. The gun culture here is gaining epidemic proportions and with things on the slide will get worse.

It applies to every nation not only Thailand! I have witnessed similar cases in the so called "first world"!

[friendlyguy01]

This will not be "another blow to tourism" as some have suggested. Street crime is rampant in most urban areas here. Bangkok continues to be one of the most dangerous places in the world. Either you accept the facts or bury your head in the sand and hope you do not become a victim.

Stress brought on by the well publicized problems unique to Thailand and the current global economic crisis will cause crime to continue to rise. This is simply one of hundreds of violent crimes that occur in Thailand everyday. This one could not be covered up because a foreigner was tragically brought into the story.

I disagree with that. In fact it is still one of the safest cities in the world. Compare Bangkok with Manila, Rio de Janeiro, Phnom Phen, Los Angeles... only to mention a few

I agree. There are 10,000 plus gun related deaths in America each year. How many are in Thailand? I'm from Los Angeles and lived in Santa Monica for over 10 years and every night there was someone being killed in Los Angeles. Trust me, Thailand is nothing compared to Los Angeles.

[friendlyguy01]

I agree with most here that you can't get involved with Thai fights. They are not educated on anger management and when they get pissed off, watch the F%$K out. I was at a club last week and a Thai guy got mad at a farang dude because he was talking to a Thai girl that he was interested in. This Thai guy was pissed. I've seen this before and knew from past experience not to get involved. This story just confirms the fact that you do not want to get involved with Thai people when they are pissed off. That goes for Thai women too. As they say "hel_l hath no fury than a Thai woman scorned".

Can't we all just drink a Singha and get along? hehe

[Tyke]

So if you visit http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_...me-total-crimes you'll see that Thailand has slipped to an impressive 20th place. I guess this is possibly because unlike many of the countries in the top 10 laws are not enforced, which means there is less crime here. Why doesn't T.A.T use these figures to get the tourists back?!

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_...s-with-firearms 3rd place in the world for murders with firearms!

And 14th for non-firearm-related homicides per capita - more than the USA:

http://www.nationmaster.com/red/graph/cri_...pop∫=100

[Richard4849]

20 years and you nor any one you know has been a victim ? wow, you are very lucky. Do you consider extortion by the police a crime? If you havent paid a cop for something in 20 years you havent lived.

We were speaking of violent crime. And I confirm that neither I nor anyone I know has ever been the victim of violent crime in my 20 years of living in Thailand. The incidence of random, violent crime here is very low according to everything I see and hear (it might be different if I lived in Pattaya...which I avoid like the plague).

I have also never been the victim of police extortion. You can believe it or not. If you're thinking of traffic shake-downs, I have of course been stopped by traffic police -- but only when I was admittedly in the wrong. In all cases, I was given the choice of taking a ticket or clearing on the spot. The choice is always yours. Consider it an optional convenience if you don't want to have to go down to the police station and retrieve your license the next day. You can always play it by the book if you want.

[OJAS]

Posters really don't read the other posts here, do they? I still see people arguing that the woman (or others) shouldn't have gotten involved.

SHE DIDN'T GET INVOLVED. That was clarified in a follow-up post regarding the translation of the Swedish article. SHE WAS WALKING PAST AT THE WRONG TIME AND GOT SHOT IN THE BACK.

I always end up regretting reading the TV boards on the very rare occasions that I do. This thread is "another blow" to reading the TV forum.

Regardless of if she was involved or not as the case may be, it highlights the need to be vigilant when Thais are arguing and steer clear as they are capable of anything without cause for consequences. The gun culture here is gaining epidemic proportions and with things on the slide will get worse.

It applies to every nation not only Thailand! I have witnessed similar cases in the so called "first world"!

Hear, hear! In the UK, for example, there are major social problems arising from the twin knife and booze cultures. If you were foolish enough to intervene in a domestic dispute there, your chances of surviving without being stabbed to death are very small indeed. And, even if you were lucky enough to survive, you would, in all probability then be the 1 who was arrested by the plod and banged up for common assault while the drunken perpetrators were let off scot free with a pat on the back from the plod. So please let there be no more of this unfair and hypocritical demonisation of Thais.

[fredKroket]

This will not be "another blow to tourism" as some have suggested. Street crime is rampant in most urban areas here. Bangkok continues to be one of the most dangerous places in the world. Either you accept the facts or bury your head in the sand and hope you do not become a victim.

Stress brought on by the well publicized problems unique to Thailand and the current global economic crisis will cause crime to continue to rise. This is simply one of hundreds of violent crimes that occur in Thailand everyday. This one could not be covered up because a foreigner was tragically brought into the story.

I disagree with that. In fact it is still one of the safest cities in the world. Compare Bangkok with Manila, Rio de Janeiro, Phnom Phen, Los Angeles... only to mention a few

I disagree and you should look at http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_gun_...icides-firearms or

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_...arms-per-capita

I agree. There are 10,000 plus gun related deaths in America each year. How many are in Thailand? I'm from Los Angeles and lived in Santa Monica for over 10 years and every night there was someone being killed in Los Angeles. Trust me, Thailand is nothing compared to Los Angeles.

[Tyke]

I have also never been the victim of police extortion. You can believe it or not. If you're thinking of traffic shake-downs, I have of course been stopped by traffic police -- but only when I was admittedly in the wrong. In all cases, I was given the choice of taking a ticket or clearing on the spot. The choice is always yours. Consider it an optional convenience if you don't want to have to go down to the police station and retrieve your license the next day. You can always play it by the book if you want.

So I assume you always paid at the police station because if you settled on the spot then you were the subject of police extortion. It is not 'an optional convenience'. That is gookspeak. And paying a bribe turns you into criminal.

Edited May 5, 2009 by Tyke

[AGareth2]

sad news

Tragic

[Richard4849]

I have also never been the victim of police extortion. You can believe it or not. If you're thinking of traffic shake-downs, I have of course been stopped by traffic police -- but only when I was admittedly in the wrong. In all cases, I was given the choice of taking a ticket or clearing on the spot. The choice is always yours. Consider it an optional convenience if you don't want to have to go down to the police station and retrieve your license the next day. You can always play it by the book if you want.

So I assume you always paid at the police station because if you settled on the spot then you were the subject of police extortion. It is not 'an optional convenience'. That is gookspeak. And paying a bribe turns you into criminal.

LOL...yes, by your definition I'm a criminal. And so is everyone else I know. A 100 baht criminal. Bring out the leg shackles and take me away.

Anyway, once again, no one I know has ever been shot, stabbed, mugged, or beaten up in Thailand -- so I'm not particularly bothered.

With moralistic black-and-white attitudes such as yours, you will never be happy in Thailand. I suggest you look for another country.

PS: "gookspeak"?

[Erich]

There's an old cliche about "lies, dam_n lies and statistics".

Personal experience. I like to walk around places I visit. In my 2 years in Bangkok, I spent 700+ hours walking around the city, frequently alone, often at ungodly hours, and sometimes in ungodly places (e.g. train track between Phetburi and Sukhumwit), but usually not both. Not once did I even feel threatened or uneasy, let along experience any sort of violence. For a big city, this is remarkable.

For comparison, I probably spent a total of ~50 hours walking in San Francisco, and got assaulted by a panhandler (managed to run away) ~9 pm near the downtown. There was also the "I should get out of here" feeling quite often. This in one of the wealthiest, best-run and safest American cities.

Of course, personal experience proves nothing, but the statistic about Thais murdering each other due to passion and unsettled business has nothing at all to do with average foreigner's safety. Note how a huge number of Farang spend a lot of time in less-then-salubrious places (lower Sukhumwit RLD at night) -- equivalent places in the west have a *much* higher crime rate.

When I was a student, the professor at the university always explained to us that :

"Statistics is when you put one foot on a bloc of ice and the other foot on a red hot cooking plate, in the average is all fine!"

It is up to everybody to believe in statistics.

But I'm here in Thailand now for 8 years and I never was in danger, except on the roads. And what happened in BKK is nothing very special, I have a feeling that many people try to make a big story about the incident. Have you been in Rio or Sao Paulo ? If not, try to find out what is going on there. In all big cities in this world you are on a risk to end up in a crossfire, even if the police is shooting.

Have a nice day and think positive.

Erich

[barky]

Three Thais apparently died in this incident, but the majority of the concern seems to be for the Swedish bystander who was only injured. Seems a bit out of whack to me.

agreed...

No, it's not out of whack if you look at it from a Thai perspective. Local Thais = worthless (except for immediate family) Foreigner = Saving international face/tourist dollars.

I often work with a certain group of Thais who use guns in their job. The mentality surrounding guns is F****n scary.

Many Thais do not have the maturity and capacity to discuss objectively and openly their problems and come up with a fair and equitable solution.

Many Thais see guns as the way to solve disputes and regain "thier face" .

[Tyke]

I have also never been the victim of police extortion. You can believe it or not. If you're thinking of traffic shake-downs, I have of course been stopped by traffic police -- but only when I was admittedly in the wrong. In all cases, I was given the choice of taking a ticket or clearing on the spot. The choice is always yours. Consider it an optional convenience if you don't want to have to go down to the police station and retrieve your license the next day. You can always play it by the book if you want.

So I assume you always paid at the police station because if you settled on the spot then you were the subject of police extortion. It is not 'an optional convenience'. That is gookspeak. And paying a bribe turns you into criminal.

LOL...yes, by your definition I'm a criminal. And so is everyone else I know. A 100 baht criminal. Bring out the leg shackles and take me away.

Anyway, once again, no one I know has ever been shot, stabbed, mugged, or beaten up in Thailand -- so I'm not particularly bothered.

With moralistic black-and-white attitudes such as yours, you will never be happy in Thailand. I suggest you look for another country.

PS: "gookspeak"?

gookspeak = calling a crime an 'optional convenience'