Electrician Needed

[ericjt]

Hi --

We live in Pongyang in an existing single family house that I think is not properly grounded -- the wiring, that is.

Has anyone had the wiring in their house grounded after the house was already built?

And, could anyone recommend an electrician who knows what it's all about and has done it?

Any assistance and/or contact information would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again --

ericjt

[meadish_sweetball]

I've used Prathom (recommended in one of the sticky threads in this forum: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Professional...tr-t184998.html ) a few times over the years to help me replace the outlets with grounded ones and install a proper grounding rod.

He is very thorough, calm and nice and cleans up after himself unlike many other local handymen. Not sure of his English skills as I speak Thai with him, but I would guess they are sufficient since he's helped many other foreigners.

[seesip]

I had the same problem--my computer was giving me a continuous low voltage shock. My guy did a pretty bare bones fix, but it worked fine for this situation. He attached a wire to the metal case of my computer, and ran it outside to a rod he buried in the ground. Never had a problem since. We're in a rental so it was better to find a quick and cheap fix rather than update the plugs throughout the house. I'm guessing you have options, ie. whether you want to do the whole house or just fix a few spots. Unfortunately don't have the guy's number, but it looks like someone's already provided a referral.

[meadish_sweetball]

I had the same problem--my computer was giving me a continuous low voltage shock. My guy did a pretty bare bones fix, but it worked fine for this situation. He attached a wire to the metal case of my computer, and ran it outside to a rod he buried in the ground. Never had a problem since. We're in a rental so it was better to find a quick and cheap fix rather than update the plugs throughout the house. I'm guessing you have options, ie. whether you want to do the whole house or just fix a few spots. Unfortunately don't have the guy's number, but it looks like someone's already provided a referral.

That will work too - essentially, when you update an individual wall outlet the difference is that the front panel of the plug housing is changed to three holes instead of two, and the ground wire will be connected to the ground pin in the new outlet and out to the copper rod in the ground.

It's considered good practice to stick to all grounded outlets in the same room (reduces the risk of being in contact with separate devices in the same room, where one is connected to an ungrounded and the other to a grounded outlet - this is not recommended because it will make you the best path to ground in case the equipment connected to the ungrounded outlet becomes live), but you probably don't need to do the entire house unless you really want to.

[cmjantje]

If you have a land line(telephone) you can use that wire Outside

[Blinky Bill]

If you have a land line(telephone) you can use that wire Outside

What???????. For earthing AC electricity? Are you sure? I don't think so.

[cmsally]

Crikey sounds dicey!

Wouldn't you run the risk of having any escaping electric current come back up the telephone line?

[Tywais]

If you have a land line(telephone) you can use that wire Outside

What???????. For earthing AC electricity? Are you sure? I don't think so.

I agree. The ground that is at the line box on the outside of the house is going to a spark gap for lightning protection. The line (signal) pair are on each side of the gap with the center of the gap going to a small gauge wire and shallow thin ground rod. Not a safe technique for the computer or the individual.

As for the phone line itself (twisted pair), one end is grounded (subscriber terminal 48 V battery) probably several kms away plus you lose the differential required for the phone to work properly.

[Bill97]

Thank you folks for getting that straightened out. Good luck cmjantje.

[cmjantje]

I use it as ground for my computer and printer. Never had a problem.

It is just a share with another device. Ground is ground.

Don't forget that grounding in Europe is done many times with attaching the ground wire at the central heating just because the hetaing pipes are partly under the ground. Always works.

In Bulgaria they connect the minus (mass) and ground together. Also works like a dream. So I sem to have Good Luck!

But of course there are some electricians amongst us who will deny these solutions because it is dangerous

[Crossy]

I use it as ground for my computer and printer. Never had a problem.

It is just a share with another device. Ground is ground.

Don't forget that grounding in Europe is done many times with attaching the ground wire at the central heating just because the hetaing pipes are partly under the ground. Always works.

In Bulgaria they connect the minus (mass) and ground together. Also works like a dream. So I sem to have Good Luck!

But of course there are some electricians amongst us who will deny these solutions because it is dangerous

cmjantje

Ground is most definitely not ground!!

It is extremely unwise to use your telecom ground for grounding mains powered equipment (in the UK it would also be illegal, but we're not in the UK I know).

The main reason is this ground is likely high impedance or hi-Z (it is after all intended for a device that consumes 50mA at 48V at most).

Should you get a Live - Ground fault in a mains powered appliance then, because of the hi-Z ground, the voltage on the ground terminal will rise to near mains potential (shock hazard), also this is likely to trigger the spark gap that's intended to protect the telephone equipment leading to mains potential on your phone line (bye-bye phone and ADSL modem) and worse this mains is going to feed back up the phone line and possibly fry the equipment at the exchange (hello unhappy telecom provider) and possibly injure telecom workers.

PLEASE use a separate ground stake for your mains kit, kept well away from your telecom ground and install an ELCB if you don't already have one.

Take a look here for useful grounding information :- http://crossy.co.uk/wiring/protection.html

The practice of connecting Ground and Neutral is indeed common and is in fact required in Thailand for new installations. It's called MEN (Multiple Earthed Neutral) or PME (Protective Multiple Earthing), but even so, your telecom ground will NOT be associated with it.

The connection to your heating pipe is not intended to provide a ground, it is intended to ensure that all exposed metalwork is at the same potential in the event of a fault, it's called Supplementary Bonding and is done to reduce the possibility of a cross-body shock (which is by far the most deadly way to get a shock).

[Paagai]

Don't forget that grounding in Europe is done many times with attaching the ground wire at the central heating just because the hetaing pipes are partly under the ground. Always works.

The connection to your heating pipe is not intended to provide a ground, it is intended to ensure that all exposed metalwork is at the same potential in the event of a fault, it's called Supplementary Bonding and is done to reduce the possibility of a cross-body shock (which is by far the most deadly way to get a shock).

Whilst Crossy is absolutely right, and this would be expected in somewhere with good electrical regulations like the UK, unfortunately the practice doesn't extend to some of the more backward parts of Europe where the solution cmjantje suggests is not uncommon.

Having recently witneseed an installation being upgraded with earthed three pin sockets here in Chiang Mai I can comment on local practice. From one of the sockets a separate wire (about 2.5mm single cable) was run outside through a window, a 1 M length of old rebar was then hammered into the ground, the cable stripped, wrapped around the top of the rebar a couple of times and covered with insulating tape. This was done twice across the installation. Why did they bother I ask............. not sure whether to laugh or cry It could have been worse, TIT, at least they didn't connect it to a blue plastic waterpipe

I should add the Electrician (that's being generous) involved was clearly a friend of John Wayne's and Lao Khao! Oh well, just gonna have to have our regular Electrician (Listed in the CM info pages) come back and do the job properly.

Fortunately the installation does have an ELCB which works, I tested it personally the other day when plugging a cheap chinese mosquito zapper into a socket whilst standing barefoot on a tiled floor. A finger came in contact with one of the live power pins........................ quite a jolt, thankfully the ELCB did its stuff.