Single Minded Thais?

[Jai Dee]

mine has found something to top this :

question : you want coffee or tea? - answer : yes!

what, coffee or tea? - yes, ok  - and then I give up and have a beer myself!

 

Been there... done that... sent the postcard...

Great stuff!!!

[srisatch]

Thai Single-Mindedness? Self-Absorption?-Self-Centredness: Generalisations?

And the difficulties with noticing things and explaining.

I would just like to understand!

Are Thais more self-obsessed than ‘Westerners’? Or are they more Single Minded as has been argued about Chinese people? Has this anything to do with things like Thais being apparently unable to ask questions like-which is the road to anywhere? Or where is the toy shop? I know there is a difficulty with such questions as it is puts someone in an awkward position if they have to say they ‘don’t know’. And even if they do know they could not explain to you! If my wife has something on her mind we could drive past a herd of pink elephants playing trombones and when asked she would say, truthfully, she had not noticed. And is it anything to do with going into a shop and picking up and buying the first item needed-no shopping around?

Are there any other reasons apart from inebriation, lack of imagination or self obsession/self importance?  that lead you to drive a Pickup/Motorbike out of a soi in front of a raft of oncoming vehicles and then down the road on the wrong side, wsometimes in the outside lane, to get to see your friend/the hairdresser or whatever. Is this to do with it too? There is more..but what do YOU think?!

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Another attempt at bashing Thais? ... albeit well-disguised!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well if you think that is bashing Thais it means you either cannot read or you cannot answer the questions

I speak Thai fluently, and my wife is no slouch when it comes to English, but we talk about this on and on, trying to find out whether it is 'language' or 'culture'. Yes of course Thai as a language constructs the world differently, and yes the whole issue of manners and troubling people is very real.

There is no imputation of better or worse ways of being/thinking/doing here. I would really like to understand from all your experiences whether there are different 'cognitive' or other explanations..or whether it is simple language deficient misunderstanding. Austin Coates, whom I admire..magistrate in HK, in Myself a Mandarin p39/40 says that Chinese people think Westerners ..."waste mental energy and are incoherent...while Chinese people are self centred to a point of being unsystematic...neither quite right he says.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes amigo, I think it is Thai bashing

And I shall repeat -- well disguised!

And now for some free advice -- wake up amigo and stop bitching about the little stuff!

Then come and have a beer with me, my treat!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Explain, exactly, where is the 'bashing' ? Seems to me that a large majority of posts on this forum relate to the issue that westerners and Thais..and others are in some misunderstanding zone...I think posts like..funny things girls say....and most of the stuff about bar girls is real bashing....If I was going to go in for it I would bash the farangs

So what is 'THE BIG STUFF'.....Honcho?...Who said this was big stuff? For me this is Jane Austen in LOS...a nod of the head, a smile, a silence, a question of character, place, style, understanding, a passing chill of distance in love, want to know more what is in her head and heart and how it got there, NOT Solutions to THE BIG QUESTION

Sure lets have a beer

Take Care!!

[Marmite the Dog]

Wow you guys are so 'nice'.

If this was on one of the other Thai forums, the conclusions would be something like "Thai's don't actually do much thinking" and "Its our duty to show them all the western way. Thai's will never compete on the world stage. If only they had been colonised..."

There's a lot of 'kreng jai here, or maybe "kwaam glua"?

[srisatch]

Wow you guys are so 'nice'.

If this was on one of the other Thai forums, the conclusions would be something like "Thai's don't actually do much thinking" and "Its our duty to show them all the western way. Thai's will never compete on the world stage. If only they had been colonised..."

There's a lot of 'kreng jai here, or maybe "kwaam glua"?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"kwaam glua"? You lost us! Is this Issan speak!? I've seen the salt production outside Udon!

[bina]

very well put ravisher, was that u? or were u quoting ? or did u do your thesis in philosophy.... any way good explanation....

[aaaaaa]

but the thing is - philosophy "mai pen rai 'and "ya khit mak mak"

isn't really compatible with too much philosophising ! rahter opposite - no philosophy at all !

[joe beets]

but the thing is - philosophy "mai pen rai 'and "ya khit mak mak"

isn't really compatible with too much philosophising !   rahter opposite  - no philosophy at all  !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't see the inconsistency w/

In the Eastern approach, thinking moves us away from understanding reality. When we think we transfer our attention away from reality to the world of symbols, and an irretrievable difference lies between the symbol and what it represents. In the Eastern approach, the nature of reality is discovered by experiencing it directly, without thoughts. This is accomplished through a variety of meditative processes.

I'm not saying I don't share your frustration w/ the "mai pen rai 'and "ya khit mak mak" approach - especially in the classroom setting.

Don't want to think too much? Resisting symbols? Doesn't leave much room for forward motion, does it?

Yeah, right. Like my little herd of buffaloes is so busy meditating.

You betcha.

jb

[srisatch]

Wow you guys are so 'nice'.

If this was on one of the other Thai forums, the conclusions would be something like "Thai's don't actually do much thinking" and "Its our duty to show them all the western way. Thai's will never compete on the world stage. If only they had been colonised..."

There's a lot of 'kreng jai here, or maybe "kwaam glua"?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"kwaam glua"? You lost us! Is this Issan speak!? I've seen the salt production outside Udon!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh we got there??

You mean

"Sai yip deo glua"

Pinch of salt

Yea! well, you could say that about most of these fora!

Edited February 6, 2005 by srisatch

[srisatch]

but the thing is - philosophy "mai pen rai 'and "ya khit mak mak"

isn't really compatible with too much philosophising !   rahter opposite  - no philosophy at all  !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't see the inconsistency w/

In the Eastern approach, thinking moves us away from understanding reality. When we think we transfer our attention away from reality to the world of symbols, and an irretrievable difference lies between the symbol and what it represents. In the Eastern approach, the nature of reality is discovered by experiencing it directly, without thoughts. This is accomplished through a variety of meditative processes.

I'm not saying I don't share your frustration w/ the "mai pen rai 'and "ya khit mak mak" approach - especially in the classroom setting.

Don't want to think too much? Resisting symbols? Doesn't leave much room for forward motion, does it?

Yeah, right. Like my little herd of buffaloes is so busy meditating.

You betcha.

jb

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh lets not, at least here, get onto the souls and minds of kwai and other animals..we'll be down the road of animal rights, farang rights, girls rights, rights of the planets

Where did you get this Ravisher?

I'm not sure it' s 100% but not bad.. though it doesn't really get to the stuff of daily thought..well not without worked examples...there you have the text book...I will go for the cook book any day

Well experiencing reality directly without thoughts is more a descrition of farang in Nana than Issan boy on bike, I fear...but maybe that makes the point that there is no difference in spite of all the attempts to point up differences...Humans not Kwai?

But the effectiveness not truth comes probably very close ....pragmatism not theory?

[srisatch]

Oh lets not, at least here, get onto the souls and minds of kwai and other animals..we'll be down the road of animal rights, farang rights, girls rights, rights of the planets

Where did you get this Ravisher?

I'm not sure it' s 100% but not bad.. though it doesn't really get to the stuff of daily thought..well not without worked examples...there you have the text book...I will go for the cook book any day

Well experiencing reality directly without thoughts  is more a descrition of farang in Nana than Issan boy on bike, I fear...but maybe that makes the point that there is no difference in spite of all the attempts to point up differences...Humans not Kwai?

But the effectiveness not truth comes probably very close ....pragmatism not theory?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think it may be best put like this:

There I was one day, telling three of my kids, that the coffee table was not really how it 'looked' to be. That it was actually billions of spinning atoms... etc. etc. etc. When my (English) wife turned around and said, "Why are you telling them all that sh!t, it's a &lt;deleted&gt; coffee table!"

I think that wife may have been an 'Eastern' thinker, and I a Western thinker. And what is the truth? Who has the correct way of looking at things? Do Westerners think too deeply... is Eastern thinking too shallow? I think niether. Both are just different.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Quite..it was the differences I was after, not better, worse, bashing, praising..

What you doing up at 6.00 am in the Peleponnese...is that how you spell it ? ...analysing coffee tables!?

But that is what I tell my kids.. Thailand looks like the UK..but its not...its a trillion of spinning atoms...trying to snag a Million+ Baht

I'm off to stop the wife voting for Thaksin...she won't..never mind me!

Edited February 6, 2005 by srisatch

[srisatch]

Quite..it was the differences I was after, not better, worse, bashing, praising..

What you doing up at 6.00 am in the Peleponnese...is that how you spell it ? ...analysing coffee tables!?

But that is what I tell my kids.. Thailand looks like the UK..but its not...its a trillion of spinning atoms...trying to snag a Million+ Baht

I'm off to stop the wife voting for Thaksin...she won't..never mind me!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is 8.28am and I am off to bed now. I work here as a casino manager... and come on TV to 'relax' and let off some steam sometimes.

The coffee talbe thing was many, many moons ago...

The differences in thought processes took a long time to evolve... probably thousands of years and a rich mixture of cultures adding to both... Not easy to analyse... and much too late to do so now... Going to bed!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Casinos in the Peleponnese? I suppose it is full of Thais like The Mint in the Cromwell Road..what do they make of that fantastic food?

Sleep well!

[DaMan]

To use a very simple computer analogy: Some people in the west have their brains hardwired a certain way. Some people in the east have their brains hardwired a different way. Sometimes a software program can be applied and some computers will accept and run some of their programs. Unfortunately, there is code that will not be accepted by each of these computers. The code should work, because the data is correct (?), but no matter how many times the enrty clerk puts in the exact same data that they have proven to be correct (in their own experience), it is not accepted.

Now some people keep on putting in same data incessantly no matter what the result. Some people try to figure out a new code. Some people say kit maak maak. I could go on, but I think you guys get the idea. I want to state again, this a very simplified analogy.

Also, congrats on having a reasonably intelligent debate for this many posts. I rarely see that on the internet. Hope to see more..........

[bina]

actually i wasnt thinking along lines of cmputers but of food:

bread for instance vs. rice..... bread

bread when u make it, has to have things done in an orderly fashion and a certain logical way, or the chemical/biological action doesnt work or taste good

rice, you put in the pot and it comes out, never had bad rice yet!!!and it matches it self to any food you want

well, i not sure this was what i meant when i thought of it this morning but after 5 hrs in rain and strong wind, this is what i remember of my brilliant idea.....

a better description: when americans or other types (finnish, german etc) work in israel, it drives them mad, cause if something doesnt work, they stop working until the proper tools and equipment and people show up which may take forever;

when israelis are working and the same problem happens, they 'innovate' or 'improvise' i worked in a factory as safety manager for 5 years, and i was always told 'this isnt america' ; the thai workers here in agriculture therefore are appreciated very much becasue they are able to solve problems in ingenious ways with little or no real tools or equipment at hand ....

i think that 'eastern' ways of seeing things mean that some obstactles just arent seen as obstacles , people find different ways of dealing(mai pen rai) and 'up to you' and not dealing are also legitimate ways of dealing with a problem. western people get stumped, and try to analyze (kit mak mak ) the situation to come up with an answer

but there are individual attitudes withing the range of east/west for each person ....

ravisher what's it like among the greek mediterranean attitudes (similar to israel i would imagine somewhere between east and west extremes, no??)

[aletta]

I don't think Thais go in for thinking in a big way.Stems from the education system where they are not allowed to express themselves or question.Pretty much a class of parrots.

[cdnvic]

Its not that they don't think, its that they tend to be more like-minded. Sometimes I think westerners could use a little of that attribute.

cv

[bina]

group is more important that individual.... nothing wrong with that , just difficult for the super individualist western (probably mostly anglosaxon) society to understand

[srisatch]

To use a very simple computer analogy: Some people in the west have their brains hardwired a certain way. Some people in the east have their brains hardwired a different way. Sometimes a software program can be applied and some computers will accept and run some of their programs. Unfortunately, there is code that will not be accepted by each of these computers. The code should work, because the data is correct (?), but no matter how many times the enrty clerk puts in the exact same data that they have proven to be correct (in their own experience), it is not accepted.

                                                Now some people keep on putting in same data incessantly no matter what the result. Some people try to figure out a new code. Some people say kit maak maak. I could go on, but I think you guys get the idea. I want to state again, this a very simplified analogy.

                                                        Also, congrats on having a reasonably intelligent debate for this many posts. I rarely see that  on the internet. Hope to see more..........

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No. I am not going to go with this analogy for now!

What do you mean hardwired in different ways? Are you saying that the brain? of different peoplel(s) are physically structured differently-genetically/biologically?

What is the software? Language? Culture.what's that!?, Emotions, Intuition??

Yes I, as a westerner can keep asking the same stupid question of a Thai and get the same answer or incomprehension..but that is, as you say, just a routine.

Now I have been accused of Thai Bashing when I started this!! Now ravisher is Greek Bashing..is he?!

I wanted to try and distinguish between 'Thai behaviour', whether we find that tedious or funny, a nuisance or likeable and 'Thai mindset'...hence the concept 'singled-mindedness'. I think it is difficult to unpick and I did not want to use too many examples..but as we have moved on!

I get the impression that there is a bizarre dichotomy in Thailand between 'public conformity' and 'personal anarchy' ie every Thai will do what the custom and norm is re a whole host of public criteria, but at the same time no-one can 'tell' any Thai person what to do.

If I ask where someone has come from or where they are going I am told, silently, that 'you don't ask those kind of questions' That is their business. So people slide in and opuit of rooms and it turns out they have come from BKK or gone to BKK for 6 months without saying hello or goodbye. Is that just 'culture'?

Contrarily there was a guy in some other forum proclaiming he was not having his financial affairs discussed by his prospective Thai family...whereas it seems to me that all financial transaction here are transparent.....etc.etc.!!" for now!

[srisatch]

No. I am not going to go with this analogy for now!

What do you mean hardwired in different ways? Are you saying that the brain? of different peoplel(s) are physically structured differently-genetically/biologically?

What is the software? Language? Culture.what's that!?, Emotions, Intuition??

Yes I, as a westerner can keep asking the same stupid question of a Thai and get the same answer or incomprehension..but that is, as you say, just a routine.

Now I have been accused of Thai Bashing when I started this!! Now ravisher is Greek Bashing..is he?!

I wanted to try and distinguish between 'Thai behaviour', whether we find that tedious or funny, a nuisance or likeable and 'Thai mindset'...hence the concept 'singled-mindedness'. I think it is difficult to unpick and I did not want to use too many examples..but as we have moved on!

I get the impression that there is a bizarre dichotomy in Thailand between 'public conformity' and 'personal anarchy' ie every Thai will do what the custom and norm is re a whole host of public criteria, but at the same time no-one can 'tell' any Thai person what to do.

If I ask where someone has come from or where they are going I am told, silently, that 'you don't ask those kind of questions' That is their business. So people slide in and opuit of rooms and it turns out they have come from BKK or gone to BKK for 6 months without saying hello or goodbye. Is that just 'culture'?

Contrarily there was a guy in some other forum proclaiming he was not having his financial affairs discussed by his prospective Thai family...whereas it seems to me that all financial transaction here are transparent.....etc.etc.!!" for now!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you wanting to 'learn' or are you purely 'frustrated' with the Thai mindset? It sounds as if you are frustrated?

DaMan was trying to simplify a very complex question to which there is no single or simple answer. If we can agree, that human brains are the same world wide. The average IQ of such brains is 100. So let us take an average brain.

At birth the brain comes with a 'operating system'. The memory is blank. There is no 'experience'. The Graphic Card (eyesight) needs to 'learn' and and the 'language center' needs developing... There is no 'belief system' etc etc. etc. The autonomous system that controls temperature, breathing, heartrate etc etc. is in place and within the Operating System.

Now Life begins in the real world outside the womb and 'then' the programming begins. . We are all 'wired' the same... but the memories on the engrams of the brain will be different, the 'programming' will be different. This will lead to different 'belief systems'... and to different 'language center' developements... some richer some poorer. This accounts for every living person being different from every other person... and each Nation having it's own 'traits' born from National, or Eastern Western Programming. Thinking processes are therefore different... they are born from National or Eastern/Western Programming. Even things such as 'emotional responses' will be different... Intuition will be different depending on what is called for at any given time, or in any set of circumstances.

Women are also Programmed differently from men... all part of the nurture processes. Thai women do not think like Thai men and Western women do not think in the same way as men... but in the Western World it is being 'encouraged' for men and women to think more 'alike'.

The answers you seek are in the 'Programming' of peoples. As Windows progresses and determines the 'way in which Windows works' the same can be said for the thousands of years of the development of Eastern and Western 'Thinking Processes'.

PS. I was not 'Greek Bashing' just expaining how they are.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Frustrated? No I am entirely happy with the Thai mind-set. I have lived happily, here and in the UK and France, with a female version of it and assorted mothers, fathers, siblings, cousins, grandchildren and their mindsets for years.

For the most part I think I have it sussed for daily life..After all...if I was frustrated I would no doubt have run 'amok' or whatever is the equivalent here! Sounds like you might have problems with the Greek mindset...like I have problems with the English mindset...solution...move!!

I am just interested in what those unintelligible French philosophers call 'Difference'...and why

I think many people would disagree that the new born mind/spirit/soul is blank...not least all those mum playing Mozart to the womb.

I don't think any description of difference..and I was not postulating the possibility of answers or explanations lies in computer metaphors..I don't think the human being..mind, body or estate..is a computer; you cannot at once talk about people being 'blank' when born and at the same time 'programmed'

Anyway none of this helps when faced with someone who 'did not think' their business was losing money because their sales were excellent...Answer: I had a different 'take' on profit margins and expenses from them!'

[srisatch]

And what's more I have to go to Nan for 3 days... so ...in sum

Hang on..here!!

When I started this, I did not envisage…oh so naïve… that we were going to have an extended critique of Confucius and Aristotle..nor that we were going to have to deal with a proliferation of metaphors and analogies, from bread to rice, to hardwiring to computers….All of which I find instructive and provoking…not least because I disagree with a lot of it!…Pedantically, as it happens, I don’t even agree with the rice stuff…different kinds of rice, different amounts of water…yes the analogy of quantity, sequence and process holds true..but I have had to encounter some horrible rice…..and worse bread!!!

Nor did I think we were going to get on to bio-history, apes and creation!!

I think most people reading this would acknowledge that they have had some ‘incidents’ where either what they said or did was misunderstood by their Thai partner and vice versa…we have enumerated some of the obvious things….

I repeat…I never proposed that there was a ‘better’ or ’worse’ way of thinking about, experiencing, explaining the world, nor of acting….just different…and that is what I..and maybe you have ‘come up against’…because as westerners it is not ‘our way’.

My original question…remember?. .was whether Thais were more. .’single-minded’ than westerners…now in English even that term implies a degree of commitment or drive…I did not want to imply that…I was interested in the ‘fact’. .is it?. .that in my experience the Thais I have met, and live with, have an ability to concentrate on their own affairs, life, circumstances, future, to the exclusion of others that I have not come across in westerners…where it would, of course, be called, self obsession, selfish or self-centred…terms that as far as I can judge have no meaning in Thai…because…why would you not be pursuing the interests of yourself.. and your family?…Thais that I know profess amazement at the loose family bonds and lack of self interest of westerners…the question was: .Are they representative..?? Is this true??!!….Never mind the biology!

What empirical evidence could anyone supply to corroborate or refute this? What theoretical constructs have been adduced to explain any such difference…..

So it was, in a sense, a simple question of behaviour, and the explanations of that behaviour.

Of course I do not want to close this down or narrow it…there are lots of avenues…but my interest was quite specific….!

Bed-time and off to Nan

[Jai Dee]

A Thai on the other hand may well give you a simple "Yes." or "No."

Like as in replying to the question "Do you want tea of coffee?".

[cdnvic]

A Thai on the other hand may well give you a simple "Yes." or "No."

Like as in replying to the question "Do you want tea of coffee?".

Nice one Jai Dee.... this thread needed a shot of "unseriousness". (another thai-ism I once heard.)

cv

[Jai Dee]

Nice one Jai Dee.... this thread needed a shot of "unseriousness". (another thai-ism I once heard.) 

Thanks cdnvic.

It's a little something I have learnt from the Thais... something I have adopted in my approach to communicating with Thais both on the work front and socially.

As I said in an earlier post...

our western way of thinking is vastly different culturally to the Thais, and in order to work through a situation, one must start to think a little bit like the Thais.

Whether your "programming" is Western or Eastern based, one has to accept the fact that people are all different and have differing viewpoints on life. To call them "single minded" just because their thinking or focus is on something other than our own is narrow minded.

And as Lancelot said earlier...

About being self absorbed, I (politely) asked my Thai gf why thais will crowd into an elevator or skytrain before letting people disembark. Her answer was that "they are only thinking that they want inside-they are not trying to block you from exiting....""

This is not single mindedness to me... it is simply another way of looking at things.

[meadish_sweetball]

Very interesting thread, some thoughts from me too:

Well experiencing reality directly without thoughts is more a descrition of farang in Nana than Issan boy on bike, I fear...

I would argue that regularly having sex with prostitutes is one of the most delusional activities you can engage in, because it is akin to addiction - all addiction contains a strong element of self-delusion. All the lame excuses about how it's not really that bad and how much the girls enjoy it and how well off they are, in many cases is a defense mechanism which serves to make you feel better about yourself. People addicted to cigarettes, booze, cocaine and whatever also make these excuses in order to feel better and not having to confront that what they are doing may be harmful. Sorry about the rant, but think about it.

Also, bina, your analogy about bread and rice is interesting, but let's spin it around a bit: if we go back to the growing process instead, wet-rice growing is actually a highly complex activity which requires planning and cooperation and was the basis for building larger societies within South-East Asia (mainly because of arranging irrigation - look at the Angkor Wat area for example).

The brain/computer analogy is interesting too, I guess the difference between a brain and a computer is that the software in a brain can eventually change the hardware to some extent (we create new neurological pathways for the different activities we do, this is what happens when we learn new things. Old habits can be hard to break, and new ones difficult to acquire. Just like you will sometimes catch yourself unawares driving back to your former workplace in the morning while your mind is on other things, our nerve impulses will tend to travel along the same lines as before, causing various weird mistakes.

[DaMan]

Sri,

I am not sure exactly what your question is, so I can definitely not answer it. Actually there are so many questions that I would not know where to start even if I wanted to. I see where you are coming from and you make some good points.

I came to this conclusion because I have some work here in thailand. I live in the US but am here 2-3 months a year. I found myself being frustrated with some of the suppliers. There are many reasons, but a lot of them centered around the suppliers not living up to what my perception of the deal was (actually my perception was what they told me, but that is another topic also). I often told myself "Let go, Let go". This was helpful. It also helps to understand some of the ways your partner (business or otherwise) thinks. However, I found myself in situations where there was no way I could understand (some would argue nor should I). My brain is programmed in a way that I can not concieve where that person is coming from. They may think the same thing about me. One could argue that there are all sorts of things going on in thai society that as a farang you will never know and nor should you know. Our western way says knowledge is power. Have you ever had a thai person tell you you know too much? I have and I always thought how could this be bad thing? I still think it is a good thing. They generally were refering that I knew something about how things are working in thailand. Before I thought they meant, why are you not a stupid farang like all the other farangs? Now I am not sure, but I think it is linked to our western conceptions of knowing things for the sake of knowing. I am going a little on a tangent here. Anyway I do think we farangs think too much. I know i think too much. However, I would rather kit maak than a converse concept that I call "think too little".

To say that socio-biological factors do not affect cultural growth really seems kinda silly to me. If a culture does not have food to eat, are they going to write books? And I have also ate poorly cooked rice.......

Edited February 8, 2005 by DaMan

[snoophound]

Some People are just more "single Minded" than others

Why the need to speak of 'single minded Thais' at all. Are not many Westerners 'single minded'? Who can honestly say that they do not put 'self' and 'family/friends' first? I think that is a 'natural' thing, not only with humans, but with all animals.

The Life Game is survival of the fittest. Therefore, whatever works best in a particular culture is the way we will go.  Modern cultures have developed over thousands of years and they have all developed in different directions for various reasons. There are also many differences 'within' these cultures themselves. Differeces in political views and differences in religious beliefs and differences in 'class structures'. We will tend to think and act acording to what we believe is best for our survival... for our peace of mind and for our futures. The 'single mindedness' is an illusion... it is not single mindedness at all, it is what we do in order to best survive and work within the structures of our societies and belief our systems.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[bina]

deman,

u think too much!!!!

the rice and bread idea.... i just threw out an idea that struck me before going to slog thru mud and sleet and muck out goat stalls....

meadish:

when thai say 'think too much' its not the oraganizational skills etc since they are very group oriented etc and they always manage to get things done in an amazingly short amount of time and with minimum fuss (at least what i see here);

but they dont sit around to analyze a situation to the point of obsession as i see most anglos that i know (including middle eastern/israeli/neurotic jewish types )

recently i started to wean a young gazelle from the bottle (he was a rescue orphan, vaccinated and healthy) and moved him to a larger holding area inside the place he was to be released (in the zoo)... two days ago we found him dead .... i walked around all day kicking my self mentally as to what i did wrong : holding area too small, stressed out, too exposed, etc etc 'gloom jai' ....

i asked my thai worker to think of ideas of what we did wrong to know for next time, his answer was: dont know why but you think too much; and promptly (w/my permision) took the gazelle off to be turned in to thai issan food ; case closed.

i think single mindedness is not the word that we are dicscussing (cause that is as snoophound and ravisher put it, a characteristic of personality found any where as in: putting your mind to the single job at hand) we are talking about analyzation of situations and how we get to answers...[color=purple]

i have a daughter w/learning dificulties: she does math really well, but can never show it on paper to teachers, she always gets the correct result but never they way people are taught to do the problem..... thats the way she solves all problems in life, in a very circular and strange fashion, but she gets there so maybe the way is not so important except to 'logic bound' people....

oooh.. a real digression.... but fun for a morning brain exercise...

Edited February 8, 2005 by bina

[Jai Dee]

Sorry to hear about your gazelle bina.

Did you ever analyse the situation and come up with an answer?

[bina]

actually, sompong's second answer was very thai:

he (the gazelle) died cause he was lonely no friends mai ben rai ok? ' mai mi pruen'

(no others like him or with him in the holding area), ..... i noticed that thai really dont like to be alone.... many workers call me, they want out of where they work, good pay, good boss but they 'work alone'.... and they dont like that at all..... seems a good an answer as any other... with animals lack of 'friends' and stress from illness or a move can indeed cause death (dying from lonliness)

thanx for condolences; broken equipment, screwed up work situations, last minute changes in schedules, tardiness, etc i can say: mai pen rai, but deaths im afraid are still difficult for me even after so many years and i tend to dwell.....wish i could learn detatchment in the buddhist fashion for this too.....

Edited February 8, 2005 by bina

[fiveyears]

No!!!!!!!! On the other hand.......... Yes!!!!!! or maybe???

[DaMan]

Bina,

I know i think too much. I stated that in my previous post. This is part of my western programming. One of the thai (asian) criticisms of western culture that I agree with is that we think too much. That being said, you think too much also. There is a distinct possiblity that you think too much, more than me. Because I do not know you I do not know that for sure.

I realized the other day that if you ask just about any "or" question (as in the previously stated question "coffee or tea?" answer "yes") to large segments of thai people you will always get the answer "yes". You can plug in any "or" question and get the same answer. Try it out some time.........