National Soi Dog Day

[Jet Gorgon]

Ya! Let's exterminate the soi dogs and cats together with the smelly farang slobs. Make designer soap, lamp shade covers and peasant stews all in one go.

A reference to your recipe for Borscht no doubt. I'm rather surprised by the people on here that seem to be recommending eating dog.

I love all living creatures, Lamphun. My remarks were aimed as a riposte to those who want to kill soi dogs because they are a "nuisance". I used my words to reflect my position that people who kill these animals probably care little for any creature, even humans. Many things in life are annoying, troublesome and irksome. Does that mean we should kill anything that disrupts our personal harmony? Humans have the ability to think, rationalise and problem solve. Other animals do not. Killing is a basic animal instinct to protect territory and survive. For humans (except the starving segment of the world that needs to eat anything to survive), it is the coward's way out, IMHO.

[lamphun]

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. Basically what you're saying is you don't want to handle the problem (in this case soi dogs). Somebody always has to pick up the garbage to keep the world nice for you.

As for killing things that disrupt our personal harmoney you'll be upset to learn that I had the termite exterminators spray my house last month.

[Jet Gorgon]

Nope, Lamphun. Soi dogs never bothered me, and I have adopted a few strays (from the beach, but same as soi dogs) in my day. Very clever and loyal they were. A little TLC and they looked as beaut as any pedigree clone.

Termites? Never had em. Always varnished the wood bits every year.

[Grover]

I love soi dogs.

I'm pretty sure that this is against the law in most countries..

technically yes...

but a dog's gotta make a living, ya know?

its a dog eat dog world

[November Rain]

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. Basically what you're saying is you don't want to handle the problem (in this case soi dogs). Somebody always has to pick up the garbage to keep the world nice for you.

I do handle the problem, lamphun. That's what I do; work with sick & injured soi dogs. We're also starting a neuter & release programme to help deal with the population here in HH (before we could only do them one at a time). It might interest you, lamphun, to know that Jet is one of the strongest supporters of what I do, on this forum (TV). She emails & pm's me with ideas & thoughts at least once a week. So, I think she's very interested in the problem & doing her bit to help.

There are many other people on this forum who are happy for others to deal with the "garbage" for them. Jet isn't one of them.

[lamphun]

Nice to hear that November Rain. What exactly do you mean by neuter and release ?

[sriracha john]

I agree with November Rain.

Move the thread to the General Forum.... then we can eviscerate the vermin and burn their carcasses.

[Luckydog]

People love them because they are communal pets, and mostly very sweet.

I feed them all the time. Lovely animals.......mostly.

[November Rain]

Nice to hear that November Rain. What exactly do you mean by neuter and release ?

N&R is what a lot of the non-profit orgs in Thailand do (SDR, Samuidog, SDF, Dogchance etc). It basically involves bringing in dogs from streets, temples, beaches, wherever, neutering them, vaccinating them against rabies, tattooing them (for future ID) and releasing them back to their territories after about a week. Sick dogs would be kept for longer & treated.

The reasons for neutering rather than culling are not just sentimental - they are actually practical. The WHO recommends neutering as the only effective method of population control in stray dogs. Pumpuiman actually made a good argument with some excellent links (if I remember right) on the Pattaya forum a few months back.

Basically, it is actually a benefit if relatively friendly soi dogs stay in their own territory. They keep other dogs away, & without the need to breed, are less noisy, less aggressive & cause less accidents. They become less of a pest & more part of the "ecosystem" of the area, without the constant mating & production of pups. There are also benefits to the dogs, mainly healthwise, both from the neutering & vaccination.

At the moment we only do a few neuterings (all of our dogs are done, we do it free for some locals & we do it for every single dog we put back on the street, before they go back), but with the new clinic (built by Dogchance & operated in conjunction with them) we will be doing a minimum of 40 soi dogs per month - small numbers to start, but we hope to do more. We also plan education campaigns about the benefits of neutering soi dogs or dogs that are owned, but allowed to roam.

[lamphun]

Releasing them back into their territories !!!

We are talking about the streets here not the African savannah. While I understand the good intentions behind this I do at the same time have missgivings about your idea of dropping off wild dogs near peoples houses, neutered or not. Wouldn't it be more humane and socially responsible to put them down ?

[November Rain]

Why would it be more humane? How is killing a healthy dog more humane than neutering it? There are specific arguments about the efficacy of neutering vs culling. I'll try & find links or excerpts & get back to you.

Socially responsible? Well, that's in the eye of the individual, I guess. If you ask 10 people, you'll get at least 4 opinions on this. I know, as I've tried it on another forum. Some believe the dogs should be killed (with varying degrees of kindness), some believe they should all be rounded up & put somewhere. (Where? Who will care for them? Where does the money come from?) Some believe they should be free & that I've got the dogs I do have in a "prison", why don't I put them all back? Some believe what we & other dog orgs do; that N&R and education is the best solution in a bad situation. It's not ideal, I would never pretend that it is, but the problem is monumental. There are probably many other variations on these views, as well.

All I know is, that I've done a lot of reading on this. I've visited other facilities in Thailand, some who N&R, some who just round dogs off the streets & don't care for them properly, some terrific, some good, some not so good, some awful. I've also seen many dogs die from poisoning. I want to do something to help alleviate the problem, as much as I can, I believe N&R is the best solution & I'm not willing to kill healthy dogs (although I do have ones with no hope put to sleep). I'm sure people disagree, just as I'm sure others agree. I can't help that. As the old saying goes "You can't please everybody".

[psychedelix47]

In Korea dog meat id highly valued and sought after - weird, man, but if you think about it, why not.

I think it is eaten in parts of Thailand, too. That's a good way of putting some meat on the table for the poor who cannot effort to feed the family frequently with beef or pork.

These strays which don't belong to anyone are fair game, a charity or government organisation could test them for health quality and then pass them on at cost. If you release the dogs after neutering, they'd continue their miserable existence and still be a hazard chasing people and school schildren in the streets, not to mention the health risks from their turds.

Killing them is the humane solution, and their life will not have been in vain, providing food is a way of honoring them, instead of burning or dumping the carcasses.

A practical and satisfying solution all around, may look a bit far out, but it's cool, if we can put aside our cultural prejudices aand upbringing as Westerners.

[Jet Gorgon]

Releasing them back into their territories !!!

We are talking about the streets here not the African savannah. While I understand the good intentions behind this I do at the same time have missgivings about your idea of dropping off wild dogs near peoples houses, neutered or not. Wouldn't it be more humane and socially responsible to put them down ?

Ya, and kill all the lawyers, too.

[lamphun]

Releasing them back into their territories !!!

We are talking about the streets here not the African savannah. While I understand the good intentions behind this I do at the same time have missgivings about your idea of dropping off wild dogs near peoples houses, neutered or not. Wouldn't it be more humane and socially responsible to put them down ?

Ya, and kill all the lawyers, too.

You been on the pop JG ?

[quiksilva]

Releasing them back into their territories !!!

We are talking about the streets here not the African savannah. While I understand the good intentions behind this I do at the same time have missgivings about your idea of dropping off wild dogs near peoples houses, neutered or not. Wouldn't it be more humane and socially responsible to put them down ?

Ya, and kill all the lawyers, too.

You been on the pop JG ?

I believe she's been on the Shakes:

JACK CADE.

I thank you, good people:- there shall be no money; all shall eat and drink on my score; and I will apparel them all in one livery, that they may agree like brothers, and worship me their lord.

DICK THE BUTCHER.

The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.

[Jet Gorgon]

I believe she's been on the Shakes:

Hey, Quicksilva, you wanna play the weaver?

[quiksilva]

oh I would I were a weaver!

[John_Rambo]

In Korea dog meat id highly valued and sought after - weird, man, but if you think about it, why not.

I think it is eaten in parts of Thailand, too. That's a good way of putting some meat on the table for the poor who cannot effort to feed the family frequently with beef or pork.

These strays which don't belong to anyone are fair game, a charity or government organisation could test them for health quality and then pass them on at cost. If you release the dogs after neutering, they'd continue their miserable existence and still be a hazard chasing people and school schildren in the streets, not to mention the health risks from their turds.

Killing them is the humane solution, and their life will not have been in vain, providing food is a way of honoring them, instead of burning or dumping the carcasses.

A practical and satisfying solution all around, may look a bit far out, but it's cool, if we can put aside our cultural prejudices aand upbringing as Westerners.

I'm all for this. I had some delicious dog meat sausages one time in Saigon. Those strays that pass quality control could provide a nice supply for those of us that appreciate the flavour, but don't often get the chance to indulge.

[sbk]

Looks like the topic has run its course and all we are getting are trolls bent on eliciting a negative response. One more post along those lines and the poster will be warned and the thread closed.

[lamphun]

It was agreed that for a proper discussion, the topic of the problem of soi dogs needs to be moved to the "General" section. We are after all not discussing pets. Sadly no mod has obliged as yet.

[sbk]

Actually, lamphun, if you look at the date of the original post, which was February of 2005, the topic is hardly relevant enough to move to the general forum anymore. In fact, it was moved here by admin upon the creation of this forum room last year. So, there you go.

Take it up with admin. I, for one, will not move an out-of-date troll bait topic into general forum two years after the original post.

[lamphun]

I obviously can't discuss your moderation, but I'd dispute that this was "an out of date troll bait". Where I live we have one are two wild dogs that take a saunter past our house every night. It's easy to tell when as our dogs go wild with barking. They aren't really a nuisance but we live in a well kept walled estate. The problems caused by these wild dogs are much more than a nuisance in most other places where large packs of dogs spread garbarge around and attack passers by.