Visitors Down By A Half

[bkkjames]

Jimbo,

Surely, there is a grain of truth in your words. Yet, do you really want more tourists clogging the streets? How many tourists do you need to enjoy the day? Personally, I enjoy Thailand, the Thai folks and a handful of friendly farang. Other than that, the fewer arrivals, the more idyllic.

Jum: I respectfully disagree. A significant portion of the country's economy depends on tourism. 1/4 full hotels and empty shopping malls etc has a trickle down effect. While the idea of a utopian paradise where I alone am the master does have some emotional value, but thankfully (and hopefully) I choose to think that what's good for the country as a whole, is good for me - and this means a vibrant tourism market.

[jumnien]

Accepted, but I think that rampant tourism is the least healthy option for Thailand to pursue. As for self-interest, as a farang living here, the farang tourist offers very little in a positive way.

[Oberkommando]

Yabaaa and Simon have responded in a very positive manner,

Simon is turning people away and yabaaa has all 5 condos rented out, maybe it's not as bad as some people would lead us to believe.

Thailand will always get Tourists, it will never dry up.

If Thailand could be controlled by a tap, and that tap turned off the flow of women and sunshine, then Thailands flow of tourists would be severely cut, but until then, Thailand will fare a lot better than other countries semi reliant upon the tourist dollar.

I mean, the weather in Europe isn't gonna change overnight is it, UK will still be cold and damp and miserable in the winter, just like it has always been, Scandanavian countries will also be cold, so countries like Thailand will always attract tourists.

Add to that the other attractions that are available in Thailand, it's always gonna be a winner, this downturn in tourism is a global thing, I would guess that Thailand will fare a lot better than others in the tourism industry.

Why do so many people from the UK come to Thailand, Scandanavians and Russians too ?

Cos they freeze their nuts off in their own countries 6 months of the year........and there is a hosepipe ban for the other 6 months.

Problem is, that's all Thailand has got to offer in the main; women and sun.

Only 0.6% of British tourists visit Thailand, so it isn't many in the big scheme of things.

When you start to understand people don't want to go on holiday only for these reasons, you'll understand why Britain gets at least 3 times the amount of tourists Thailand does.

[Oberkommando]

The problem for Thailand is that once people discover the other nearby countries, such as Malaysia, Cambodia, Vietnam and Indonesia, which they will because they'll be sick of being jerked around in Thailand, those tourists probably wont come back. They'll make one of the nearby countries their new

holiday destination of choice.

Thailand does not have a mortgage on sunshine and pretty girls.

I have been to all those countries, and I still live in Thailand and would never consider those as an alternative, how about you ?

But you live in Thailand, you are not a tourist.

I would move to Phnom Penh in an instant but I have 25 years in Thailand that I can't just leave behind now. I take all my vacations outside Thailand now though, mostly in Cambo, Laos and Vietnam, so they've lost me as a paying tourist, even though I still live here.

[bkkjames]

Accepted, but I think that rampant tourism is the least healthy option for Thailand to pursue. As for self-interest, as a farang living here, the farang tourist offers very little in a positive way.

would you say that if you were in the tourism industry here or had clients in it?

kinda narrow no?

[jumnien]

Accepted, but I think that rampant tourism is the least healthy option for Thailand to pursue. As for self-interest, as a farang living here, the farang tourist offers very little in a positive way.

would you say that if you were in the tourism industry here or had clients in it?

kinda narrow no?

If I was in the sex or tourist industries, or the sex tourist industry, I suppose I'd think differently, but I'm not. Really, I don't see why some farang want the tourist industry at 10 - 30% of GDP. And farang don't have to make their money in one industry only, Be Creative!

[bkkjames]

Accepted, but I think that rampant tourism is the least healthy option for Thailand to pursue. As for self-interest, as a farang living here, the farang tourist offers very little in a positive way.

would you say that if you were in the tourism industry here or had clients in it?

kinda narrow no?

If I was in the sex or tourist industries, or the sex tourist industry, I suppose I'd think differently, but I'm not. Really, I don't see why some farang want the tourist industry at 10 - 30% of GDP. And farang don't have to make their money in one industry only, Be Creative!

suffice to say Jum, that it's the Thais that are taking a bigger hit over this situation than a few farang guest house owners.

Edited May 14, 2009 by bkkjames

[MJP]

Accepted, but I think that rampant tourism is the least healthy option for Thailand to pursue. As for self-interest, as a farang living here, the farang tourist offers very little in a positive way.

would you say that if you were in the tourism industry here or had clients in it?

kinda narrow no?

If I was in the sex or tourist industries, or the sex tourist industry, I suppose I'd think differently, but I'm not. Really, I don't see why some farang want the tourist industry at 10 - 30% of GDP. And farang don't have to make their money in one industry only, Be Creative!

suffice to say Jum, that it's the Thais that are taking a bigger hit over this situation than a few farang guest house owners.

James,

Right now, everyone's taking a hit, be it here or the West.

At least the Thai's have a sufficiency economy of sorts.

[Oberkommando]

The Sakdina make money from the slavery of their own people, hence no need to worry about unwelcome foreigners coming or not coming.

Normal people will just have to be more 'sufficient' while the elite scoff swan and guzzle gin.

[MJP]

Okay then.

Old friend from Samet called this afternoon. The guy with the restaurant. I said hows it going, first time I've ever heard this guy depressed.

There's no custom. I said, reckon it's 50% down. At least. he says.

Doesn't see it improving.

This sentiment and absence of confidence is global, permeating all trades, professions, businesses and hopefully government quangos.

People will suffer, no doubt.

[bkkjames]

I would love to stay here and debate this all night - but I won't.

Will say that sitting around assigning blame won't change a thing either and neither will taking a 'who need's farang money' attitude either.

An old Chinese Proverb goes : "if you want to get your house in order, you don't start at the roof and work downward, you start from the ground and work up"

Ok, I just made that up but you get the point.

Have a good night all.

[Birdman]

Good night bkkjames and good night Ben, Mary Ellen, Jim Bob, John-Boy, Olivia, John Sr, Grandma, Jason, Erin, Elizabeth, Grandpa.

Edited May 14, 2009 by Birdman

[Maigo6]

all pretty well on the spot there go6 except for the Uni Gal point. I met mine here. She 22 at the time, me 30+++

Jamie, I'm interested in the 30+++, is each + worth 10 years ?

Edited May 14, 2009 by Maigo6

[yabaaaa]

Add to this, how much are exports down by?

Got to be around the same?

It would be nice to get some first-hand accounts from expats (and Thais) who own businesses in Thailand that are in some way related to tourism......are they being affected by the downturn? Are they closing shop? Expanding? Moving to the Philippines, Cambodia, Vietnam, Malaysia, etc., or staying? Laying off workers? Hiring workers?

Ok Ive got 5 condos I rent all are full............................ hope that doesnt upset you all too much??

I noticed one local hotel to me charges Thais 1300 baht a night farangs 1700 baht a night (Bangkok) hmmm nice touch.

Same round here (Fortune Town), they just don't get the message.

I wonder if Thailand's failure to do anything stems from the impression they have that all farangs have an inexhaustible supply of money. I don't think Thais quite understand the seriousness of their predicament- quite a few on this board too.

But it is amazing how life goes on. On the one hand, this IMHO is a very severe recession, on the other, there seems to be more hustle and bustle than ever.

I have noticed lots of shops closing down in the Pratunam area, particularly those off street.

Would be nice to hear from more hotel owners.

I dont know if they yet realise for myself coming from the UK the £ has gone down about 25% so its a double whammy. I dont stay there now.

[livinthailandos]

Its estimated around 800 million global tourists, will relook up the fact book on this believe I saw it from the World Travel Organization and from the IATA, even though well see 2009 a global travel downturn not just thailand but everywhere and although thailand has its own domestic problems. People are still traveling even with the swine flu. Thailands visitors are down thats for sure but thailand stills has tourists and will until something extremely bad happens.

Farangs the only thing I can assume is to many of you dont work here in thailand or are solely dependant on your pensions and currency flucations. Many of you say deflate the baht, is not thailand's currency doing bad its your own country governments policies or lack of foresight or just didn't care that caused your currency to go down. Greed just be mentioned though.

I guess what I'm getting at is besides visitors down lets look at the rough 10 years, we have had

9/11

SARS

Oil prices at $150 dollars a barrel

Global Recession

Swine Flu

Globally there are still people traveling it has not come to a stop. It has slowed down that is a fact. But competition always brings alternatives

What thailand lacks is should be all known to everyone its not that hard to see.

1. If you do not understand your market, (customers, suppliers etc), then when the market takes a dive, so will your business very true

2. In General what thailand lacks in its tourism industry:

a. I've see many areas of miscommunication between employee of hotel and customer

b. Most thai's realistically dont have the same kind of perspection that most farang do, although there are thai's who have this ability to i would say its the in the minority

c. How many businesses actually have a business plan for actually running their business.

d. Responsible ( enough said )

e. How many people over price or over inflate their prices.

Right now thailand needs tourism and export industry because domestically if the government can't unite as one body or a least make actually progress in anything what alternative can you offer people here. Take away corruption to. People need real world skills and a actual education. You have to get people to think outside of the box. Any improvement towards actual progress will be often in a long term since and I'm sure I"ll be an old man by the time I see that if it even happens at all

[yabaaaa]

I have been to all those countries, and I still live in Thailand and would never consider those as an alternative, how about you ?

I go to SE Asia a few times a year or more.

I have always started in BKK for a few days and then taken off to where-ever.

My next trip is planned for next month. I will be starting in Phnom Penh for a few days. I prefer it.

I probably wont even bother with Thailand this time.

It's strange how 2 out of 2 guesthouse owners have come here and stated they are full (albeit only 15 rooms between them) and then there's this:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Crisis-hit-H...le-t265130.html

Well I have found Thais to be terrible at marketing, even my wife has a degree in this but it "useless" Its getting harder to find customers but certainly not impossible and PRICE is not the deciding factor. Units that i own can be rented off other owners cheaper, often with crappy furniture , dirty, and no customer service at all. Wife does it all apart from advertising and I reply to any english e mails. Maybe I should charge the Thais more?????

[Birdman]

Problem is, that's all Thailand has got to offer in the main; women and sun.

Only 0.6% of British tourists visit Thailand, so it isn't many in the big scheme of things.

When you start to understand people don't want to go on holiday only for these reasons, you'll understand why Britain gets at least 3 times the amount of tourists Thailand does.

Problem here is to ignore the majority of tourists, which are package tourists. They still do the classic tour, which is one of many package roundtrips from BKK to the North, and afterwards beach and relaxing in the South.

Sure, there are less tourists this year because of the might of the media which pushes horror stories about the financial crisis and about every minor and not so minor shortcoming in Thailand. Too many people are worried about that and choose other places. (But not in the SEA btw)

Many repeating tourists know it better. They will come again and again. They are a major percentage of all tourists here at the moment.

[yabaaaa]

I have been to all those countries, and I still live in Thailand and would never consider those as an alternative, how about you ?

I go to SE Asia a few times a year or more.

I have always started in BKK for a few days and then taken off to where-ever.

My next trip is planned for next month. I will be starting in Phnom Penh for a few days. I prefer it.

I probably wont even bother with Thailand this time.

It's strange how 2 out of 2 guesthouse owners have come here and stated they are full (albeit only 15 rooms between them) and then there's this:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Crisis-hit-H...le-t265130.html

LOL.... I know what you mean, I guess if I had rental properties or a Guest House/Hotel I would paint a rosy picture too. ( Not saying they are wrong, they are probably right )

Just as estate agents say they are really busy and the market is bouyant, as Bar owners say their Bar makes loads of money ( even though they have been trying to sell for 1 or 2 years )

Some people I know are struggling, I know guys in Pattaya who have been trying to sell their houses for a long time, and still no interest, even with regular discounting, one guy I know actually admits he will take a loss if he sells, he just wants out. Many will never want to suffer a loss and will never tell anybody about it.

Many will never admit to losing, but with the world economy as it is, it's certainly a buyers market, and sellers will be hard pushed to get their asking price. Yet on internet forums, things are different I guess.

Same as the amount of guys here that met their wives in overseas universities where they were studying for masters degrees..... The fact that that University Graduate was suddenly attracted to a guy 30 years older is neither here nor there.

Then they complain about helping out her family! Do they actually realise how much it costs to get an MBA in a US university for an overseas student ?

I can assure them the family are certainly not in need of handouts from farang truck drivers if they can afford to send their daughter to an overseas uni to gain an MBA.

Internet forums are great.....

Easy way to check with us, ask for a room??? sorry full. But ask an estate agent if the house/land is still available??????

Edited May 14, 2009 by yabaaaa

[yabaaaa]

Yabaaa and Simon have responded in a very positive manner,

Simon is turning people away and yabaaa has all 5 condos rented out, maybe it's not as bad as some people would lead us to believe.

Thailand will always get Tourists, it will never dry up.

If Thailand could be controlled by a tap, and that tap turned off the flow of women and sunshine, then Thailands flow of tourists would be severely cut, but until then, Thailand will fare a lot better than other countries semi reliant upon the tourist dollar.

I mean, the weather in Europe isn't gonna change overnight is it, UK will still be cold and damp and miserable in the winter, just like it has always been, Scandanavian countries will also be cold, so countries like Thailand will always attract tourists.

Add to that the other attractions that are available in Thailand, it's always gonna be a winner, this downturn in tourism is a global thing, I would guess that Thailand will fare a lot better than others in the tourism industry.

Why do so many people from the UK come to Thailand, Scandanavians and Russians too ?

Cos they freeze their nuts off in their own countries 6 months of the year........and there is a hosepipe ban for the other 6 months.

Problem is, that's all Thailand has got to offer in the main; women and sun.

Only 0.6% of British tourists visit Thailand, so it isn't many in the big scheme of things.

When you start to understand people don't want to go on holiday only for these reasons, you'll understand why Britain gets at least 3 times the amount of tourists Thailand does.

But I DONT cater for short term tourists, most of my customers do business here in Bangkok or want a cheap but tidy room with modern furniture and 24 hour on call assistance if anything goes wrong.

[mommysboy]

The Thais have no idea about international currencies and the need to lower their prices or adjust their currency to compensate and stay competitive.

The classic example is the tax increase on Beer at a time when the hospitality industry is already on it's knees.

Tourism down 50% is no surprise to anyone who has a clear, unbiased view and who has been watching events unfold in the last 6 months. The Land of Smiles had already turned into the Land of Grimaces before this red shirt/yellow shirt childishness, and now it looks like a civil war if you watch CNN or BBC which most foreign tourists do. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. It's all straight out of the "Watch me ruin an economy" handbook.

I predicted this on a previous thread a few months ago only to be flamed and told I didn't know what I was talking about. I said last year that it was time to take your business abroad to neighboring countries. I'm glad I did.

The funniest thing is that the Thais and Farang biz owners all think things will recover soon.

Try a few years at the very earliest. If you're in biz in Thailand I hope you've got some fat on your bones to last the long dry season approaching.

Best of luck with that.

I think this is a very good post. One mistake in my view which I highlighted. I think the rot set in a few years ago.

[mommysboy]

All this talk about Thailand scaring away tourists is a joke. Check out the arrivals decade by decade and you will the surge.

I'm afraid Issan's no.1 produce export keeps 'em coming.

A decade's a long time my friend!!!

There's the tricky business of today, and tomorrow for many people.

[MJP]

All this talk about Thailand scaring away tourists is a joke. Check out the arrivals decade by decade and you will the surge.

I'm afraid Issan's no.1 produce export keeps 'em coming.

A decade's a long time my friend!!!

There's the tricky business of today, and tomorrow for many people.

I hope it comes to end. I do. It's not fair on them. It's not.

[Hanzkneez]

The soaring tourists numbers for the last two decades have done nothing for us or the Thais.

It only account for about 7% of the countries GDP.

Only 7% are you insane? that's a lot of Baht and that's only what is reported - the katoey who blew you isn't going to report that so its higher than 7% anyway.

[Maigo6]

But I DONT cater for short term tourists, most of my customers do business here in Bangkok or want a cheap but tidy room with modern furniture and 24 hour on call assistance if anything goes wrong.

Oh dear....

That's put me off completely, I only want quality, cheap rooms are something I had when I was at university getting my MBA, now I've grown up I like the finer things in life.

Strange thing is though, as soon as I got my MBA, I wasn't attracted to a partner 30 years older than myself, I guess we're all different.

Many older guys in Thailand claim that the MBA student was attracted to them for some reason, amazing really.

[MJP]

But I DONT cater for short term tourists, most of my customers do business here in Bangkok or want a cheap but tidy room with modern furniture and 24 hour on call assistance if anything goes wrong.

Oh dear....

That's put me off completely, I only want quality, cheap rooms are something I had when I was at university getting my MBA, now I've grown up I like the finer things in life.

Strange thing is though, as soon as I got my MBA, I wasn't attracted to a partner 30 years older than myself, I guess we're all different.

Many older guys in Thailand claim that the MBA student was attracted to them for some reason, amazing really.

Maigo,

I've only one example, my sister-in-law, very well educated, 25 years old, won't look at a bloke less than 50. Last bloke was 63.

I've talked to her about it, she says young men are 'dirty'.

Don't know?? No idea??

[Maigo6]

Maigo,

I've only one example, my sister-in-law, very well educated, 25 years old, won't look at a bloke less than 50. Last bloke was 63.

I've talked to her about it, she says young men are 'dirty'.

Don't know?? No idea??

Yeah, but has she got an MBA from an overseas university ?

This seeems to be the clincher in the deal.

My missus has a cousin, 28 years old, Nurse in Bkk, never had a BF before, well fit and would like to meet a Farang guy, not cos she especially likes Farangs, it's just that an older farang could provide for her, hence she is willing to meet a farang in his 50's or even 60's.

She's great, and I have been asked if I know any farang who may be suitable, I know many many Farangs in Thailand, sadly, none of them fit the bill as suitable, most are fat alcoholic losers that I wouldn't wish upon my worst enemy as a partner.

Edited May 14, 2009 by Maigo6

[MJP]

Maigo,

I've only one example, my sister-in-law, very well educated, 25 years old, won't look at a bloke less than 50. Last bloke was 63.

I've talked to her about it, she says young men are 'dirty'.

Don't know?? No idea??

Yeah, but has she got an MBA from an overseas university ?

This seeems to be the clincher in the deal.

My missus has a cousin, 28 years old, Nurse in Bkk, never had a BF before, well fit and would like to meet a Farang guy, not cos she especially likes Farangs, it's just that an older farang could provide for her, hence she is willing to meet a farang in his 50's or even 60's.

She's great, and I have been asked if I know any farang who may be suitable, I know many many Farangs in Thailand, sadly, none of them fit the bill as suitable, most are fat alcoholic losers that I wouldn't wish upon my worst enemy as a partner.

Well, I'm much fitter than I was, very rarely drink (smoke too many cigs (I was going to say fags then, but I think you may be American)), according to Jeremy Clarkson (idiot from UK), all ex-pats are losers so count me in I suppose.

But I'm only 34.

[Maigo6]

Well, I'm much fitter than I was, very rarely drink (smoke too many cigs (I was going to say fags then, but I think you may be American)), according to Jeremy Clarkson (idiot from UK), all ex-pats are losers so count me in I suppose.

But I'm only 34.

That's a certain put off I'm afraid.

Being in a room with someone who smokes way too many cigarettes is a fuc_kin' nightmare if one is a non smoker.

I'll cross you off the list too.......

[MJP]

Well, I'm much fitter than I was, very rarely drink (smoke too many cigs (I was going to say fags then, but I think you may be American)), according to Jeremy Clarkson (idiot from UK), all ex-pats are losers so count me in I suppose.

But I'm only 34.

That's a certain put off I'm afraid.

Being in a room with someone who smokes way too many cigarettes is a fuc_kin' nightmare if one is a non smoker.

I'll cross you off the list too.......

I thank you. The last thing I need right now is . . .

[Misplaced]

Maigo,

I've only one example, my sister-in-law, very well educated, 25 years old, won't look at a bloke less than 50. Last bloke was 63.

I've talked to her about it, she says young men are 'dirty'.

Don't know?? No idea??

Yeah, but has she got an MBA from an overseas university ?

This seeems to be the clincher in the deal.

My missus has a cousin, 28 years old, Nurse in Bkk, never had a BF before, well fit and would like to meet a Farang guy, not cos she especially likes Farangs, it's just that an older farang could provide for her, hence she is willing to meet a farang in his 50's or even 60's.

She's great, and I have been asked if I know any farang who may be suitable, I know many many Farangs in Thailand, sadly, none of them fit the bill as suitable, most are fat alcoholic losers that I wouldn't wish upon my worst enemy as a partner.

Now that's truism . Funny though, they think they look like Brad Pit when drunk (Brad pit's ass perhaps).