My Desperate Attempt To Buy Legal Software

[raro]

Yesterday, May 15, in the afternoon at Fortune Town. I want to buy Garmin software for my HTC Touch mobile phone. Legal software, not pirated.

First shop (conspiciously whispering): No problem, Sir, just 500 Baht, wait 20 min, Sir....

Me: (loud): GREAT! And that comes with an official license??

Shop guy: Shhhh..nooo....but work very well....

I try two or three more shops that look as they are selling GPS stuff, same result.

Next stop the official HTC dealer. They have also a wide range of Garmin products, but getting ONLY the software on my PDA...no way!

Smart Mobile shop: Very helpful staff, but again no software. At least I could buy a bundle, the software together with the original Garmin GPS receiver. As I have a receiver already, I don't want it.

Now comes the interesting part...I still cannot believe all this by myself, but it is as it happened to me.

The shop lady there gives me the number of ESRI, the Thai Garmin distributor and license holder. At ESRI they tell me that they cannot sell me the software just like that, I have to talk to HTC first. I tell the guy that I could walk back to that other shop and get the software at 500 Baht within 20 min. His answer is that this is pirated software and not good and yadayada...but selling his official version to me is not possible at this stage.

I call HTC Thailand.

I learn from Mr. Shinawat (nomen est omen?) of HTC (the company was called differently, but apparently they are the official importer) that I cannot just like that buy some Garmin software for my mobile phone. This would be a very unusual request and I am only the second (!!) person asking for this in 6 months...well...I say, maybe the reason is that I can get the software without questions asked opposite his official shop...naaaa...that is pirated software and I will burn in hel_l etc...

Ok, Mr. Shinawat is very helpful and explains me the lengthy process how to get officially licensed Garmin software on my HTC mobile, only interrupted by my laughter and doublechecking of the idionsyncratic process that follows now.

1) We have to establish whether the mobile phone has been imported by his company. I find the IMEI number and call him back. I am extremely lucky, this mobile was bought in Thailand. If not, mission impossible. If a grey import, see above.

2) He has to contact ESRI to get a permission allowing him to sell the software to me. If no permission granted, see above.

3) Mr. Shinawat will send me by e-mail the legal fineprint for using the software and I have to send him a mail back that I agree on the terms and conditions. He especially pointed out that the software license is coupled with the mobile phone's IMEI number and the software cannot be used on any other device after. I say that this is quite user unfriendly as I have to buy a new license if I change or lose my mobile phone. He agrees that he had similar complaints before but a company policy is a company policy and nothing to argue about.

3) After ESRI's approval, I have to transfer the purchasing price, anywhere between 2,000 and 2,500 Baht. The exact price he cannot tell me as it is rather unusual to sell licensed software to end users.

4) After receipt of the money, I will receive a CD with the software by mail.

Total duration of the process: If all goes smooth between 3 and 5 days.

Last detail missing is my mailing address. But you have my IMEI number already and I registered the mobile phone in my company's name on the HTC webpage...well...Mr. Shinawat cannot look up the HTC database. But you are the HTC dealer, I say...Yes. That's why I cannot look up the HTC database. At this point I cannot help myself laughing out loud and also the staff at Smart Mobile was already listening to my conversation with increasing amusement.

Half an hour later, ESRI calls me expressing their thanks for my interest in buying licensed software, a rather unusual request as it seems. They confirm my delivery address and promise me to send me the CD by next Wednesday along with an invoice that I can pay then by bank transfer.

I ask why he cannot send me an e-mail with a download link. Naaaa.....then EVERYONE can download his software, ALL over the world. But this is a THAI map and this is only for what he called "domestic users". If someone in the US wanted to load this software on his mobile phone as he is planning a trip to Thailand? No way....he is not "domestic".

On top of that, Garmin and HTC have an agreement in Thailand that Garmin software can only be sold together with an HTC mobile phone or other hardware bundled to it, but never alone. I say that they could sell much more licenses if they had not this agreement in place, he said that he thought about this also before....but a policy is a policy, isn't it?

This post has been sent to the Bangkok Post Database as a reader's letter as well.

[namoo]

Think I would have paid the 500 baht after that epic.

Least it will put food on the table for the family of the guy selling the dodgy version. And at the same time teach Garmin and HTC to stop being so bloody stupid with their policies.

Edited May 16, 2009 by namoo

[Theyreallrubbish]

Yesterday, May 15, in the afternoon at Fortune Town. I want to buy Garmin software for my HTC Touch mobile phone. Legal software, not pirated.

First shop (conspiciously whispering): No problem, Sir, just 500 Baht, wait 20 min, Sir....

Me: (loud): GREAT! And that comes with an official license??

Shop guy: Shhhh..nooo....but work very well....

I try two or three more shops that look as they are selling GPS stuff, same result.

Next stop the official HTC dealer. They have also a wide range of Garmin products, but getting ONLY the software on my PDA...no way!

Smart Mobile shop: Very helpful staff, but again no software. At least I could buy a bundle, the software together with the original Garmin GPS receiver. As I have a receiver already, I don't want it.

Now comes the interesting part...I still cannot believe all this by myself, but it is as it happened to me.

The shop lady there gives me the number of ESRI, the Thai Garmin distributor and license holder. At ESRI they tell me that they cannot sell me the software just like that, I have to talk to HTC first. I tell the guy that I could walk back to that other shop and get the software at 500 Baht within 20 min. His answer is that this is pirated software and not good and yadayada...but selling his official version to me is not possible at this stage.

I call HTC Thailand.

I learn from Mr. Shinawat (nomen est omen?) of HTC (the company was called differently, but apparently they are the official importer) that I cannot just like that buy some Garmin software for my mobile phone. This would be a very unusual request and I am only the second (!!) person asking for this in 6 months...well...I say, maybe the reason is that I can get the software without questions asked opposite his official shop...naaaa...that is pirated software and I will burn in hel_l etc...

Ok, Mr. Shinawat is very helpful and explains me the lengthy process how to get officially licensed Garmin software on my HTC mobile, only interrupted by my laughter and doublechecking of the idionsyncratic process that follows now.

1) We have to establish whether the mobile phone has been imported by his company. I find the IMEI number and call him back. I am extremely lucky, this mobile was bought in Thailand. If not, mission impossible. If a grey import, see above.

2) He has to contact ESRI to get a permission allowing him to sell the software to me. If no permission granted, see above.

3) Mr. Shinawat will send me by e-mail the legal fineprint for using the software and I have to send him a mail back that I agree on the terms and conditions. He especially pointed out that the software license is coupled with the mobile phone's IMEI number and the software cannot be used on any other device after. I say that this is quite user unfriendly as I have to buy a new license if I change or lose my mobile phone. He agrees that he had similar complaints before but a company policy is a company policy and nothing to argue about.

3) After ESRI's approval, I have to transfer the purchasing price, anywhere between 2,000 and 2,500 Baht. The exact price he cannot tell me as it is rather unusual to sell licensed software to end users.

4) After receipt of the money, I will receive a CD with the software by mail.

Total duration of the process: If all goes smooth between 3 and 5 days.

Last detail missing is my mailing address. But you have my IMEI number already and I registered the mobile phone in my company's name on the HTC webpage...well...Mr. Shinawat cannot look up the HTC database. But you are the HTC dealer, I say...Yes. That's why I cannot look up the HTC database. At this point I cannot help myself laughing out loud and also the staff at Smart Mobile was already listening to my conversation with increasing amusement.

Half an hour later, ESRI calls me expressing their thanks for my interest in buying licensed software, a rather unusual request as it seems. They confirm my delivery address and promise me to send me the CD by next Wednesday along with an invoice that I can pay then by bank transfer.

I ask why he cannot send me an e-mail with a download link. Naaaa.....then EVERYONE can download his software, ALL over the world. But this is a THAI map and this is only for what he called "domestic users". If someone in the US wanted to load this software on his mobile phone as he is planning a trip to Thailand? No way....he is not "domestic".

On top of that, Garmin and HTC have an agreement in Thailand that Garmin software can only be sold together with an HTC mobile phone or other hardware bundled to it, but never alone. I say that they could sell much more licenses if they had not this agreement in place, he said that he thought about this also before....but a policy is a policy, isn't it?

This post has been sent to the Bangkok Post Database as a reader's letter as well.

I have the Garmin software as it came with my HTC Touch Pro.

Have to say, its not very good.

Nokia Maps in my Nokia N95 is much better.

A great free map service that works on HTC phones is AmaZe

http://www.amazegps.com

[Daffy D]

You got to lov it TIT

[raro]

In the meantime, I have received e-mails from both, ESRI and the HTC distributor (SIS):

SIS:

As i mentioned , this license will be available with this mobile only. You have to accept this condition as well. We are selling this GARMIN software exclusive for hTC product only. SiS/hTC pay very expensive for this exclusive right that's one of the reason why it can't use with every mobile phone.

ESRI got back to the cash in advance payment (as advised by SIS), although they said yesterday on the phone that I get an invoice with the CD to pay later.

[raro]

I have the Garmin software as it came with my HTC Touch Pro.

Have to say, its not very good.

Nokia Maps in my Nokia N95 is much better.

A great free map service that works on HTC phones is AmaZe

http://www.amazegps.com

thanks a lot for that link! Will try that software and report back.

I actually tried a cracked version of Garmin on my notebook together with my GPS receiver and was very happy with its accuracy and functionality. That's why I am happy to pay 2,000 Baht (as it is confirmed now) to get an officially licensed version.

[Digitalbanana]

Think I would have paid the 500 baht after that epic.

Least it will put food on the table for the family of the guy selling the dodgy version. And at the same time teach Garmin and HTC to stop being so bloody stupid with their policies.

I'd just download it with Torrent. Thats all the goons in the shops do anyway and safe wasting hours in traffic and MRT's getting to Fortune. Life's too short.

[raro]

Think I would have paid the 500 baht after that epic.

Least it will put food on the table for the family of the guy selling the dodgy version. And at the same time teach Garmin and HTC to stop being so bloody stupid with their policies.

I'd just download it with Torrent. Thats all the goons in the shops do anyway and safe wasting hours in traffic and MRT's getting to Fortune. Life's too short.

I agree, this is what those policies encourage the customer to do. If they had the CD on the shelf and I can take it home - or even better a link to download it and pay by credit card as other software distributors do all over the world - it would be a customer friendly approach.

Why I want the original?

- I think 2,000 Baht is a reasonable price for this excellent software

- I travel a lot abroad and don't want to get caught anywhere with dodgy software on mobile phone or laptop

- Even within Thailand I hear more and more stories of companies busted by the software police. I prefer having everything on the white side of life and better slep at night.

[namoo]

btw. I would use igo instead its much much better. igo in my opinion is the best turn by turn with so many POI, 3D buildings etc. if u wish. far superior product to garmin.

[raro]

btw. I would use igo instead its much much better. igo in my opinion is the best turn by turn with so many POI, 3D buildings etc. if u wish. far superior product to garmin.

just checked their webpage. They do not seem to have a Thai map...

[namoo]

They do have Thailand maps for igo. All the maps for the world are all over Torrents / Newsgroups or of course u can buy them

igo has worldwide coverage and I have used the Thailand maps before.

naviextras.com for example.

Its just the most polished gps software available for WM phones:

igo 8

Edited May 16, 2009 by namoo

[raro]

They do have Thailand maps for igo. All the maps for the world are all over Torrents / Newsgroups or of course u can buy them

igo has worldwide coverage and I have used the Thailand maps before.

thanks a lot, have contacted them by mail for an offer.

[Sunny Valentine]

Thanks for the info. Was thinking about buying this software, but, as I have a foreign MPC, I will go the torrent route. That way I will help the Company execs save face, save me money, and help an honest, hard working vendor in Pantip.

[raro]

I have the Garmin software as it came with my HTC Touch Pro.

Have to say, its not very good.

Nokia Maps in my Nokia N95 is much better.

A great free map service that works on HTC phones is AmaZe

http://www.amazegps.com

thanks a lot for that link! Will try that software and report back.

I actually tried a cracked version of Garmin on my notebook together with my GPS receiver and was very happy with its accuracy and functionality. That's why I am happy to pay 2,000 Baht (as it is confirmed now) to get an officially licensed version.

just tried Amaze and it didn't work whatsoever. Could not communicate with my GPS receiver, no Thai maps found...maybe I am too stupid to use it but I removed it already.

[dave111223]

What's the advantage of Garmin software over free software such as Google Latitude?

[raro]

What's the advantage of Garmin software over free software such as Google Latitude?

Google Latitude does not seem to tell you how to go from one point to another. It only shows you the map and needs apparently an internet connection all the time.

Garmin works offline and tells you how to get from one place to another.

[dave111223]

What's the advantage of Garmin software over free software such as Google Latitude?

Google Latitude does not seem to tell you how to go from one point to another. It only shows you the map and needs apparently an internet connection all the time.

Garmin works offline and tells you how to get from one place to another.

Google Latitude can give you directions from 1 point to another. Or do you mean "tells you" as in a spoken voice... latitude doesn't have this feature.

Edited May 17, 2009 by dave111223

[raro]

What's the advantage of Garmin software over free software such as Google Latitude?

Google Latitude does not seem to tell you how to go from one point to another. It only shows you the map and needs apparently an internet connection all the time.

Garmin works offline and tells you how to get from one place to another.

Google Latitude can give you directions from 1 point to another. Or do you mean "tells you" as in a spoken voice... latitude doesn't have this feature.

right...enter a start point and a destination point and then the software tells you where to go. You see at the same time on the map where you are because the GPS knows your position.

Garmin is pretty good at that, I always thought I know Bangkok, but Garmin came up with some excellent short cuts that I could not figure out by myself!

[raro]

Intersting update: I have been informed that GMXP (the mobile phone suftware from Garmin) has been "discontinued", hence no more downloads from the garmin webpage possible.

I wonder now how Garmin Thailand can offer me a software that is not available on the market anymore. No answer from Garmin Thailnad yet, will keep you posted!

[namoo]

because its a backhander. They think farang wants to give his money away so I will pocket it myself and just send him a CD that is in the office.

[raro]

ok.....after having this sorted with Garmin, we take on the next contender, Microsoft. I want to legalize my MS Money software. Here is my e-mail conversation with MS so far:

Dear Mr. Vince,

I spoke to your colleague Ivana last week in my desperate attempt getting a license for MS Money Plus.

I am running at the moment a 60 days trial version and since I am still in the trial period there shouldn't be a problem with it. However, I would appreciate running it legally after the trial expires and cannot understand Microsoft's stance making it impossible to purchase it legally.

Kindly advise what to do.

________________________________________________________________________________

__________________________

Dear raro,

I thank you for your email and the great interest on our Microsoft Money Plus.

I understand that you are currently running Microsoft Money trial and clearly intend to purchase the full version of the software once the trial run ends. If my understanding is incorrect, please do let me know.

Rainer, for your information, due to the changes of financial-management software category in the last 17 years where the demand nowadays for a personal finance software has very much declined, I regret to inform you that Microsoft Money Plus is no longer available for purchase globally. More information about this announcement can be found at:

http://www.microsoft.com/money/default.mspx

I sincerely apologize for the inconveniences. Should you have further questions relating to this enquiry or any additional enquiries, please let me know.

Best Regards,

Hello Vince,

The software is available in Thailand, costs about 4 USD and installs and runs nicely.

I am willing to pay for an official license. If Microsoft is not in a position to provide me the license, then I can safely assume that Microsoft has no problems if I use a pirated version of the software?

Kindly confirm

raro,

Certainly, Microsoft do not recommend the use of a pirated copy of our software due to several obvious reasons and I sincerely apologize if Microsoft Money Plus is not available for purchase anymore.

We'd treat your response as a suggestion which we had captured thru our internal tool and should the volume of similar suggestion increases, possibly there will be changes in its availability in the future. That said, I can confirm that Microsoft Money Plus is not available for purchase presently.

Regards,

Vince

Hello Vince,

If I use a software that is not available in the market then I is hardly piracy, is it? You lose no income as I offered you a payment that you refused. Hence, I see no problem using an unlicensed version.

With best regards

The big question to me is now...I want to use this software, so how to do?

[raro]

The saga continues...

I have been to ESRI office yesterday and asked to get the installation on my PDA done, they quoted me 2,000 Baht for this earlier.

Nada! On June 30, the Garmin PDA version has been discontinued and the software is no longer for sale. Too late, Mister...

As it is discontinued, I argued, there would not be a problem running an unlicensed version as no loss of income etc, see the Microsoft case above. I have been told in no uncertain terms that I will hear from their lawyer and hel_l is heating up for me.

Now comes the fun part. Today I check into Fortune Town again and learn that HTC has also discontinued its cooperation with Garmin and switched to Tomtom instead. There will be a new Thailand map from Tomtom with about 400,000 POIs, similar to the Garmin map. Launch around mid August. According to the shop, the software will be available separately, so no need to buy the a new HTC device.

Will keep you posted.

[verydumbubba]

Strangely, as I was reading your post - I have used Garmin forever, even in LOS - I said to myself "M$" is the bogey!

Sure enough. They are their own worst enemy. Love my iPhone.

Bubba