srisatch Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 My niece has UK and Thai Passports. She was born in Thailand. Her mother lives in Thailand, her father in the UK. They are separated, not divorced. The girl lives with her father in the UK. He wants her to see her mother and return to school in the UK. If she enters Thailand on a UK Passport do Thai authorities have any powers to treat her as Thai citizen rather than a UK citizen. My brother is concerned at possibilities of the mother trying to prevent his daughter returning to the UK. Any thoughts/knowledge/experience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Since she has Thai nationality it would not matter what passport she entered on. If her mother decided to stop her from leaving she could. But they might give her a choice if she is old enough to state what she wants to do. How old is she? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hansnl Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 My niece has UK and Thai Passports. She was born in Thailand. Her mother lives in Thailand, her father in the UK. They are separated, not divorced. The girl lives with her father in the UK. He wants her to see her mother and return to school in the UK. If she enters Thailand on a UK Passport do Thai authorities have any powers to treat her as Thai citizen rather than a UK citizen. My brother is concerned at possibilities of the mother trying to prevent his daughter returning to the UK. Any thoughts/knowledge/experience? If she enters Thailand on her UK passport, withous a visa, she will probably get a 30-day stamp, so she has to leave the Kingdom within the 30 days. If so, she is a British subject at that time, a tourist. But being a minor, might change things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 If so, she is a British subject at that time, a tourist. I don't beleive that true. As soon as she steps on Thai soil she is a Thai and not longer has protection as a UK citizen. I don't have a UK passport but mine has a little warning about holding dual nationality that says my country can't help if you are in the country that is your other nationality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost_in_space Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 This is a tough one. So much depends on their relationship. She's her mother, it seems to me she has a strong hand once your niece is in in the country, with or without a Thai passport. Speaking as a father, I'd never risk being separated from my daughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srisatch Posted May 22, 2009 Author Share Posted May 22, 2009 This is a tough one. So much depends on their relationship. She's her mother, it seems to me she has a strong hand once your niece is in in the country, with or without a Thai passport. Speaking as a father, I'd never risk being separated from my daughter. I think it is a tough one too! The little girl is 7 years old. She has been at school in both Chiang Mai and the UK. She wants to go to school in the UK in September. Asked why...!! She said Boring stand up, sit down, sing songs, salute!! Mother has been 'missing' 9 months.....so Dad worryiing about effect of this....I agree I would not let her out of my sight.....He took her out of Thailand 2 months ago at the end of Por 1....no problem.....but she has a lot of entry/exit stamps in her passport...so not unusual.....but as you know a 'visit' from the boys in brown might be difficult to deal with.......Thanks ...all help and thoughts appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbrenn Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 (edited) If so, she is a British subject at that time, a tourist. I don't beleive that true. As soon as she steps on Thai soil she is a Thai and not longer has protection as a UK citizen. I don't have a UK passport but mine has a little warning about holding dual nationality that says my country can't help if you are in the country that is your other nationality. That's right, see the UK rules on dual nationality here: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecont...ity?view=Binary Article 4 of the Hague Convention on Certain Questions relating to the Conflict of Nationality Laws, 1930 provides that "a State may not afford diplomatic protection to one of its nationals against a state whose nationality such person also possesses". This means that the UK cannot protect a dual UK/Thai national from the Thai authorities. Travelling to Thailand on a UK passport won't make any difference and won't ensure that the OP's niece will have to leave Thailand, ever. As a Thai national, she can never be deported, even if she overstays the entry stamp on the UK passport that she used to enter Thailand. The fine of up to 20,000 Baht would still be incurred for overstaying the British passport entry stamp, however. As Ubonjoe says, it depends on the girl's age as to whether her mother would be abe to prevent her from leaving of her own free will. Given that the couple are separated with presumably no custody arrangements, if the mother did decide to prevent her child from leaving, then the case would have to go to court. Mothers usually win custody battles. Edited May 23, 2009 by dbrenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srisatch Posted May 23, 2009 Author Share Posted May 23, 2009 He has considered obtaining a UK Residence Order. It is said that the Thai authorities would 'respect' such an order. However Thailand is not a signatory to the Convention. I would not risk it! Its advantage is that it would guard against any attempt to remove her from the UK. Thanks to everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martinluka Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 My son Luka has 2 pasports one Belgium and one Thai ,never in 3 jears have a problem ,coming to LOS ,no problem just schows the Thai pasport ,after 6 monts going back to Belgium ,arrive in Brussels schowing his Belgium pasport ,no problem ,so i dont anderstood whats the problem when he have 2 pasports Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 This thread is not about dual passport use - it is about child custody and jurisdiction. The concern is the a female child visiting mother in Thailand might be required to stay with mother in Thailand and not allowed to return to UK and father. As Thai authorities in my limited understanding normally provide custody to the same sex parent believe it is a valid concern unless the mother is obviously unfit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srisatch Posted May 23, 2009 Author Share Posted May 23, 2009 This thread is not about dual passport use - it is about child custody and jurisdiction. The concern is the a female child visiting mother in Thailand might be required to stay with mother in Thailand and not allowed to return to UK and father. As Thai authorities in my limited understanding normally provide custody to the same sex parent believe it is a valid concern unless the mother is obviously unfit. You have, of course, identified the real problems here. Thai authorities are, as I understand it, 'predisposed' both to award custody to a mother and to a Thai parent in preference to a father and a farang. Further you raise the difficult question of 'unfit'! It is my brother's view that deserting your daughter one day while she was at school and failing to provide any means of contact for nearly a year renders the mother 'unfit'! As far as is known the mother has no means of support other than what my brother provides. ie. he pays money into UK bank account and it is regularly withdrawn. However given the vagaries of Thai childcare and 'Granny care' it might be doubtful if the concept of 'unfit' was similarly understood in Thailand and the UK! Its sad that a caring concern not to separate entirely a child from Mum is so beset by possible pitfalls! There is a further complication! One solution is to revoke Thai nationality..but I have been told that if you have a Thai birth certificate this 'impossible'!! True..or not?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario2008 Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 Revoking is not impossible, but very hard to do. It requires the interior minister to sign of on it and as the child is a minor also the mother would have to agree with it. As to the comment that Thai courts are biased towards the Thai parent, many members have said this is not the fact. Thai judges keep the child in mind when they make their decision and many foreign fathers hold sole costudy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 Do not believe that could be done by a 3rd party without a court case and suspect no court would want to rule on it. When person is old enough they could renounce citizenship but that would be beyond custody concerns anyway. I do believe Thai courts make judgments most often for the child and often award custody to foreign parent if there is clear need. But that could be a difficult process with the country separation and current unknowns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srisatch Posted May 25, 2009 Author Share Posted May 25, 2009 Do not believe that could be done by a 3rd party without a court case and suspect no court would want to rule on it. When person is old enough they could renounce citizenship but that would be beyond custody concerns anyway.I do believe Thai courts make judgments most often for the child and often award custody to foreign parent if there is clear need. But that could be a difficult process with the country separation and current unknowns. He has decided not to go...Offered mother air ticket to UK instead...she has UK permanent Leave to remain...............means of course he might have to get an Order to prevent involuntary removal of child from UK...........Thanks to you all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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