Charity Workers Must Get Work Permits

[chuchok]

i think there's problem with definitions of "work" and "job employment"

if charity activity paid - it's a job, so charity oranisation should apply for easier procedures of some kind of temp permits.

if person does charity activities on his/her own, and there're no any wedges, salaries bonuses etc., even he/she provided with basic accomodation, transportation and other provisions - than such activity has nothing to do with jobs as emplyment and work permit is not required.

now, say a person coming to Thailand to meet thai businesses and even sign contract as rep. of overseas company - it is "work", right?

but why should businessman spend time collecting all redic. papers just to get Non-B visa for one trip here? TR-visa is enough, although makes it illegal activity, according to imm dept.

I think raids should start at every trade show and fair. Lots of farangs are working without w.p. !!!My point - guys from charities has no reason to fear, as long as they receive no cash.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Australians do not need a work permit anymore for conducting business such as described above, the Business visa is also easier for Aussies to obtain now too.

I like the TAFTA - plus it puts us Aussies a step ahead of other Farangs (giggle giggle.. gloat gloat).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not for long..the Kiwis will get the same within a month or three.

[onethailand]

Note this point of exclusion:

(6) as persons who perform duty or mission for the benefit of education, culture, art, sport of other activities as may be prescribed by the Royal Decree;

Does it not seem that "the benefit of the country" is missing from this list?

Either this was strangely left out - or is covered by "other activities as may be prescribed by the Royal Decree".

Oops... I see Crazy Dave has seen the same thing

[Kyusens]

I dont see the problem..........Of course they should have work permits and it sounds like a formality for registered charities............I would imagine it would be the same in the western world.

Knowing thailand I think more than one person (falang) would try to use the tsunami as an opportunity / excuse to stay in thailand illegally.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Kyusens]

I dont see the problem..........Of course they should have work permits and it sounds like a formality for registered charities............I would imagine it would be the same in the western world.

Knowing thailand I think more than one person (falang) would try to use the tsunami as an opportunity / excuse to stay in thailand illegally.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with u ..if all were able to just stay and do...then who is there?....mmm think about it people in this day and age not the benifits...lets keep it too a good understanding and do the right thing...then it is there for later....rightly..

[dezeure]

I agree completely with the Thai government:

Whatever work, get a workpermit.

Here for charity? Prove it and we give you a work permit immediately.

proving that you do charity work isn't any problem.  they can just come and see for themselvers, but getting a work permit is once again a COSTLY maneuver, with lots of hassles and paperwork etc etc, and all this S@#t just to be ALLOWED to help the local people...  How pathetic are we here???

Ever tried to get one for the USA ?

Two Thai ladies, one even with a permanent resident visa to EU, had to go back to Bangkok, US Immigration for a visa application.

Both, travelling together, to see the same man ( business contact for years), were refused as "they would see their fiancee in the US, so was not sure they would leave the USA again ( mr Charles Wintheiser, head of Immigration dept USA Embassy BKK)

US and EU are two complete different things (thank god).  It's not because you have a resident visa that you are an EU national.  They are still Thai and therefore still need to apply for a visa.  Although it would have been smarter (less of this 'are you gonna be an immigrant' bullshit) for them to apply for a US visum in the EU since they were permanent residents anyway.

I have a resident visa for thailand but that doesn't give me any rights a thai has...  its basically the same thing...

Happy country: an US Citizen even cannot get the woman of his dreams to the country where all dreams are possible.

Second: the US Gov implicitly recognizes the possibility of bigamy, as BOTH ladies seeing the same fiancee.

Third: how to be sure for the full 100 % a visitor will leave the USA ?

I prefer the Thai way !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Even for me, as a European, it was difficult to get a study visa for the US... and somehow they host half of the worlds terrorists... Go figure how they hand out visas

Cheers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

###### the colors didn't work...

[Krub]

Do you honestly think that if Thais went to the US to donate time, effort and money to an earthquake relief effort that the US government would make them get a work permit? I don't think so.

The US would not even let them on the plane let alone land on US soil

Wake up !

Edited February 8, 2005 by Krub

[johnrh]

I dont see the problem..........Of course they should have work permits and it sounds like a formality for registered charities............I would imagine it would be the same in the western world.

Knowing thailand I think more than one person (falang) would try to use the tsunami as an opportunity / excuse to stay in thailand illegally.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Right, let's calm down and put some perspective on this. At first sight it does seem ungrateful, but I'm sure that's not the intention. In every country in the world foreigners are required to have some legal basis.

All I hope is that those who go along to the office are treated decently, and get what they neeed without harrassment.

[Doctor John]

Do you honestly think that if Thais went to the US to donate time, effort and money to an earthquake relief effort that the US government would make them get a work permit?  I don't think so.

The US would not even let them on the plane let alone land on US soil

Wake up !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Right, they would not even get on the Plane in the first place.

As mentioned in some previous post, there are some farangs that would try to use the Tsunami disaster as a way to stay in Thailand illegally.

It is easy for Aid workers to get a permit so I cannot see the problem in getting one.

Edited February 9, 2005 by Doctor John

[steverino]

I agree with the Gov. They've been lenient and understanding until now. These genuine Charity workers will not be surprised by it, as it is the norm in every country, that the Charity concerned registers their volunteers etc. when they arrive. What with the haste of the situation immedietly after the Tsunami, maybe this didn't get done quite as efficiently as usual. It's also the Thai Gov.'s way of sorting the wheat out from the chaff, as someone implied earlier, some folk do try to take advantage of the situation.

[hkt83100]

I agree completely with the Thai government:

Whatever work, get a workpermit.

Here for charity? Prove it and we give you a work permit immediately.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is no problem for those, who work for another one of the big orgranisations. They just have to present a letter from the organisation. But what about the many of private helpers? They are "working" directly by collecting donations, bying things and food for Thais, handing out this stuff directly to the needy people. Maybe that the problem, there are not that many pocket to be filled on the way, and a mere 100% of the donations arrive there, where it's needed... As a private, you'll never get the work permit for charity

[hkt83100]

It is easy for Aid workers to get a permit so I cannot see the problem in getting one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you are willing to pay 20,000 to 30,000 Baht for the permission to help, that fine. This is what was a friend of mine was told, when he asked an offices of the Immigration Office at Patong Beach, on December 27th, 2004. (The office was still closed on that date, but my friend had the mobile number of the officer.)

[stats]

This is stupid!!! Charity work ...Damm this people are just trying to show off their stupidness asking the voluteers to get a work permit...

[toastwars]

I cannot agree with all they angry smilies in this post.

Laws are laws. if they have been applied "considerately" because of the emergency, that is fine. Now that the immediate emergency is over, we need to go back to the full application of the law.

unless of course you can bribe your way out of the "laws"

[Doctor John]

I cannot agree with all they angry smilies in this post.

Laws are laws. if they have been applied "considerately" because of the emergency, that is fine. Now that the immediate emergency is over, we need to go back to the full application of the law.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

unless of course you can bribe your way out of the "laws"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why would someone that can easily get a work permit want to bribe anyone?

[Phil Conners]

Do you honestly think that if Thais went to the US to donate time, effort and money to an earthquake relief effort that the US government would make them get a work permit?  I don't think so.

The US would not even let them on the plane let alone land on US soil

Wake up !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How can you even consider comparing Thailand with USA or a European Country?

When a small poor developing country like Thailand has a disaster like this the government is unable to deal with it and need the help. If something like this were to happen in US or Europe it would be a mosquito bite, a small annoying itch, but not something that would make a measurable dent in the economy.

[phuketrichard]

Add to that that to get a work permit ALL those ngo's who probaly came in on a tourist visda would need to fly to another country and apply for a non-o visa.

But there are no international flights ( last week) out of Phuket.

Yep. thanks for your help, now F#@k off.

If your not here to spend money we don't need ya

[ovenman]

Add to that that to get a work permit ALL those ngo's who probaly came in on a tourist visda would need to fly  to another country and apply for a non-o visa.

...from a consular office that would probably be all-too-happy to throw some additional red tape into the process (We're going to need certified copies of your "employer's" tax returns for the last thirty years, a letter from the Ministry of Labour, etc.)

[Doctor John]

How many guys that where on Overstay used the tsunami as an exscuse?

"Oh, I am on 2 Months overstay because I was helping clean up Phuket, so I don't have to pay the 20,000 baht fine " ( In reality, who knows what he was doing )

I bet that was heard on more than one occasion.

It is easy for the genuine helpers to get registered with the Authorities, it helps them also to be registered, I can't see anybody that is genuine complaining about going to get a permit to state what they are doing in Thailand.

[Doctor John]

If a group of so called aid workers where found to have been a group of perverts taking advantage of kids that where misplaced, you guys would be screaming :

" The thai's just let anyone stay, no checks at all, they should have registered all disaster relief workers so they knew that these people actually are doing what they are supposed to be doing"

You would have blamed the Thai's for being so lax, now they want to register foreigners you say they are wrong.

But it gives you guy's something to moan about I guess, you should be thankful for that.

[ovenman]

If a group of so called aid workers where found to have been a group of perverts taking advantage of kids  that where misplaced, you guys would be screaming:

I'm curious to know how having a piece of registration paper (the work permit) somehow makes a person less of a risk for being a pedophile, pervert, child kidnapper or such. Especially if, as you claim, getting a work permit for aid work is so simple.

[kandt]

Having done some volunteer work since the tsunami, I am not outraged at the Thai Government or the local representative interpreting the law, according to instructions from BKK. You will recall the Thai government from the outset indicated, they did not want any foreign assistance. Many Farangs volunteered following the tsunami and I believe we just have to accept the interpretation. Being retired I cannot get a work permit and I have just informed the people I have assisted that I cannot continue.

In my view the main reason for the enforcement is that the Thai authorities are getting tired of being told by many volunteers what to do, how and where and secondly they would not appreciate it that the real numbers of victims would become more public.

Cheers……….kandt

[Foggy Bottom]

OK All - time for some perspective

First - quoting hypothetical examples of Thais going to the west to help are invalid - consider all those US East Coast hurricanes ... same amount of collateral damage covered by federal aid and sorted internally. Then for example the massive flooding in the EC countries a year or so back - similar issue damage wise (especially to farmers and town centres (remember I'm only talking about Thailand's post-tsunami damage, not region wide)), Again those countries did not need outside aid.

Second - Additional labour and expertise was not needed from outside the countries because it already existed within them, and their economies were strong enough to recover. Same applies to the massive flooding in England's north west this winter.

Thaksin, for whatever reason, claimed Thailand had enough resourses to handle both the financial and manpower side of the relief effort - that much is true, and as we now move into the rebuilding phase, shortages of expert skills, whether psychologists to help the bereaved or engineers to build preventative measures, are being exposed and the PM is learning that his blanket statement of no help needed, is not quite true. That is why he called for forensic scientists to help with corpse identification. "Aid" workers at that level will probably have their paperwork covered by the government.

The general muscle-power shifting debri is possibly where this latest move is targetted. Even the most uneducated Thai can shift rubble and rebuild a bamboo and thatch beer-bar, but the brains to co-ordinate effort efficiently is probably what most farangs see as lacking. In some cases, that is probably valid, but not in all - i.e. the resorts and hotels that re-opened within a few days.

I suspect the problem facing Phuket (having had time to think about this) is that a number of farangs have migrated there from whichever hidey-holes they were using around the country, and have done so in the hope of getting freely extended stays on minimal finance or validity. Once the tsunami recovery effort is complete, they'll sneak back to their low cost of living hideouts in Issaan, the North etc.

I'm also convinced that paedophiles etc are not foremost in the authorities minds in this case, but that they see a simple and convenient route to do some weeding out, AND to create a record of the quantities and types of manpower needed for this type of disaster.

If, as the head of labour stated in the OP quote, the registration procedure is simple and swift (and free), then I'm for it - but he needs some training in how to present such announcements instead of using the typical uniformed official bullying beligerance. The announcement made in that way is a PR nightmare for the ruling government party and they should rebuke him for it, and follow up the announcement with further explanation.

[ovenman]

If, as the head of labour stated in the OP quote, the registration procedure is simple and swift (and free), then I'm for it - but he needs some training in how to present such announcements instead of using the typical uniformed official bullying beligerance.  The announcement made in that way is a PR nightmare for the ruling government party and they should rebuke him for it, and follow up the announcement with further explanation.

I'm with you there. Maybe the pronouncement loses something in the translation from Thai but as written it comes across as we've had enough of you volunteers flouting the law and actually thinking you can just show up and help, we're gonna throw your collective asses into jail if you don't get into compliance real soon now.

I don't have any problem with the underlying principle at stake for the Thai government, just the presentation of such by the authorities involved. There are certainly more gracious ways that the same points could have been made by the powers-that-be. Bottom line though (as always), is that it's not our country...

[chuchok]

OK All - time for some perspective

First - quoting hypothetical examples of Thais going to the west to help are invalid - consider all those US East Coast hurricanes ... same amount of collateral damage covered by federal aid and sorted internally.  Then for example the massive flooding in the EC countries a year or so back - similar issue damage wise (especially to farmers and town centres (remember I'm only talking about Thailand's post-tsunami damage, not region wide)),  Again those countries did not need outside aid. 

Second - Additional labour and expertise was not needed from outside the countries because it already existed within them, and their economies were strong enough to recover.  Same applies to the massive flooding in England's north west this winter.

Thaksin, for whatever reason, claimed Thailand had enough resourses to handle both the financial and manpower side of the relief effort - that much is true, and as we now move into the rebuilding phase, shortages of expert skills, whether psychologists to help the bereaved or engineers to build preventative measures, are being exposed and the PM is learning that his blanket statement of no help needed, is not quite true.  That is why he called for forensic scientists to help with corpse identification.  "Aid" workers at that level will probably have their paperwork covered by the government.

The general muscle-power shifting debri is possibly where this latest move is targetted.  Even the most uneducated Thai can shift rubble and rebuild a bamboo and thatch beer-bar, but the brains to co-ordinate effort efficiently is probably what most farangs see as lacking.  In some cases, that is probably valid, but not in all - i.e. the resorts and hotels that re-opened within a few days.

I suspect the problem facing Phuket (having had time to think about this) is that a number of farangs have migrated there from whichever hidey-holes they were using around the country, and have done so in the hope of getting freely extended stays on minimal finance or validity.  Once the tsunami recovery effort is complete, they'll sneak back to their low cost of living hideouts in Issaan, the North etc.

I'm also convinced that paedophiles etc are not foremost in the authorities minds in this case, but that they see a simple and convenient route to do some weeding out, AND to create a record of the quantities and types of manpower needed for this type of disaster.

If, as the head of labour stated in the OP quote, the registration procedure is simple and swift (and free), then I'm for it - but he needs some training in how to present such announcements instead of using the typical uniformed official bullying beligerance.  The announcement made in that way is a PR nightmare for the ruling government party and they should rebuke him for it, and follow up the announcement with further explanation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Gaz,

Thank Christ for the best common sence reply so farm.

While Taksin did say he dosn't want money etc, he did say/ask for the forensic help that you mentioned and help to rebuild schools/villiages etc.

[PeaceBlondie]

It is easy for the genuine helpers to get registered with the Authorities, it helps them also to be registered, I can't see anybody that is genuine complaining about going to get a permit to state what they are doing in Thailand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dr. John, you keep saying how easy it is to get registered, to get a work permit. Are you sure? If it's been virtually impossible for me to get a WP when I worked for long-established GOVERNMENT schools, how can it be so easy?

[Doctor John]

Dr. John, you keep saying how easy it is to get registered, to get a work permit.  Are you sure?  If it's been virtually impossible for me to get a WP when I worked for long-established GOVERNMENT schools, how can it be so easy?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So you was working without a permit ?

Naughty Boy/Girl, yes many work illegally, no wonder they have to crackdown on these lawbreakers.

[NedKelly]

This is all a croc........sure there are laws blah blah blah.......and the vasy majority of us abide by those laws. But this news is just rediculous. Name one charity that will issue a work permit for a volunteer ?!! Work permits cost money to have done and a chairty is not going to pay for it. Ok the farang may pay the fee, but lets then look at Volunteer work......mostly if you volunteer anywhere, there should ideally be a 'job' description and an outline of rights and responsibilities for the volunteer. Much like a real employee.

None of this would be happenning for Tsunami volunteers. I feel that the guy who made the announcement was either following the orders of some other incompetent or was just big noting himself as some guys like to do. It is an opportunity for Thailand to gain valuable publicity by having a formal voluinteer program installed and bring in high profile volunteers for a set period of time. The media would have a field day and it would be an opportunity to get the positive news out about how normal some areas are now. Then maybe tourists would star tcomingback. It would not be a case of having to relay on outside help, but quite the opposite. If they want to be one eyed fools let them be.

[astral]

How many guys that where on Overstay used the tsunami as an exscuse?

"Oh, I am on 2 Months overstay because I was helping clean up Phuket, so I don't have to pay the 20,000 baht fine "    ( In reality, who knows what he was doing )

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought this whole post was about WORK PERMITS, not visa overstayers?

The Thai's are doing exactly what they complain about in farangs.

Making a big fuss over nothing.

Personally I hope the volunteers do go home..................

The various governments can then complain that the Thai's are not doing the job

of identifying bodies quick enough,

and the displaced Thai's will continue to complain of lack of help.

Thailand then looses face...........................

[RDN]

WHO offers forensics assistance

PHUKET: The World Health Organization (WHO) has offered to send forensic scientists to Thailand to help identify tsunami victims, and has asked Thailand to support other countries hit by the tsunami.

Dr Samlee Plianbangchang, WHO Regional Director for Southeast Asia, said the organization would draw on experience gained after the September 11, 2001, attacks in the United States.

“One must always keep in mind that the way corpses are managed has a significant impact on the psycho-social wellbeing of surviving family members. Priority must be given to victim identification, which is becoming an increasingly specialized issue,” he explained.

The WHO also hopes to bring in experts from the Americas, with experience of natural disasters, to advise the Thai authorities on building hospitals and similar facilities. “It is important that the public health infrastructure can withstand and is spared from natural disasters,” sa id K. Samlee.

Thailand has expertise in areas such as disease surveillance and laboratory support and the WHO is asking Bangkok to share that knowledge with other tsunami-stricken nations, said Dr Samlee.

Dr Samlee and his WHO colleagues were on a two-day trip to Phuket and Phang Nga to assess public health services in areas affected by the tsunami.

The WHO Representative to Thailand, Dr William Aldis, has said that fish and other seafood products from the tsunami-affected areas are safe for consumption.

There was no epidemiological evidence or other indication of an increased risk of fish- or seafood-borne diseases in the region, he said.

He said Ministry of Public Health tests on more than 100 samples of fish and related products from the six tsunami-affected provinces had shown no evidence of contamination by disease or heavy metals such as lead, cadmium or arsenic.

But, he said, the WHO would continue to collaborate with national , regional and international partners to monitor and assess the safety of fish and fishery products, as well as other foods in the region, because they play a key role in the diet of local people.

Brought to you by:

The Phuket Gazette

Hope they get their work permits sorted.

[marquess]

How many guys that where on Overstay used the tsunami as an exscuse?

"Oh, I am on 2 Months overstay because I was helping clean up Phuket, so I don't have to pay the 20,000 baht fine "  ( In reality, who knows what he was doing )

One didn't need to use it as an excuse, when leaving for Oz in the middle of last month, I did not have to pay my five days overstay, as there was sign saying that due to the Tsunami, all over stay fines had been waivered