Work Permit With Investment

[josephbloggs]

Hi folks,

I have lived and worked here for numerous years as an employee of a Thai company. I don't have Thai residency as I have never got round to applying. I am leaving my current job to join a start-up company in which I will also be a registered shareholder/investor.

After I leave my present company will I have to leave the country and apply for a non Immigrant B back in the UK (or wherever)? Are the rules for work permit applications different if you are in investor in the company too? I have been told that maybe you don't even need one but I find that hard to believe. Is the process any different at all?

I would appreciate any repliues or any information anyone can share with me on this topic.

Thank you.

[Mario2008]

If you are purely an investor and don't work at the company you don't need a WP. If you invest more then 10 million baht you can get a visa and extensions based on your investment.

If you do work at the comapny, even signing papers would be considered working, you would need a WP. I understand it is a new to form company, so for the first 2 years you will need to stay on multiple non-B visas, as for 1 yearly extensions the company would need to show tax paper over the last 2 years.

[josephbloggs]

If you are purely an investor and don't work at the company you don't need a WP. If you invest more then 10 million baht you can get a visa and extensions based on your investment.

If you do work at the comapny, even signing papers would be considered working, you would need a WP. I understand it is a new to form company, so for the first 2 years you will need to stay on multiple non-B visas, as for 1 yearly extensions the company would need to show tax paper over the last 2 years.

Hi Mario,

Thanks for the reply. Very interesting. As I will certainly be working there I will need a WP then, that's fine. But I wasn't aware of the two year tax thing. Does that mean that I (and any other foreigners we might employ) will have to leave the country every three months to renew our non-immigrant Bs, or can it be done from inside the country once you've initially entered on one?

[ubonjoe]

With a multiple entry B visa you would have to make a border run every 90 days.

[monty]

Indeed.

If the foreign employees have multiple entry immigrant visas, a border run every 90 days is needed.

Normally followed by a trip to the labor department to bring the validity of the WP in line with your new entry stamp.

There is a new law that took away the work permit being tied to your entry stamp or allowed until stamp, along with it being valid up to two years. However, mine is still tied to my yearly extension (did this late February).

[Mario2008]

You can get a multiple non-B, valid for 1 year. During that year every time you enter Thailand you get permission to stay for 90 days, after which you would need to leave the country (just cross the border and go into another country) and come right back again for another 90 days. When you leave the country just before your visa expires you would get another 90 days, so you can get almost 15 months out of the visa, before you have to get a new multiple non-B visa.

Note that when you current employment ends, your permission to stay in Thailand will end the same day. You have to leave the country the same day but you could get an extension of stay of 7 days from immigraiton for 1,900 baht.

Employees married to a Thai national could get a non-O visa and yearly extensions of stay from immigration if the can show an income of 40,000 a month or 400,000 in a thai bankaccount.

[PoorSucker]

Buy an old company (over 2 years).

Many for sale

Should be around 30.000 baht for a shell company.

Then you can get extension of stay right away.

[monty]

Buy an old company (over 2 years).

Many for sale

Should be around 30.000 baht for a shell company.

Then you can get extension of stay right away.

Not true, unless the company has been actively trading in the previous years, with sufficient turn over to satisfy immigration that the company will be able to pay for the foreign employee(s).

Rule of thumb is that turnover should be at least a year's worth of salary for the foreign employee (12 X 50000 = 600,000).

Which would be unlikely with a shell company sold at 30,000 Baht!

Additionally I do not trust buying "second hand" companies, there is simply no way to check whether they have debts or not. They might have bought stuff on 90 days credit, you might get bitten in the behind!

[josephbloggs]

Buy an old company (over 2 years).

Many for sale

Should be around 30.000 baht for a shell company.

Then you can get extension of stay right away.

Not true, unless the company has been actively trading in the previous years, with sufficient turn over to satisfy immigration that the company will be able to pay for the foreign employee(s).

Rule of thumb is that turnover should be at least a year's worth of salary for the foreign employee (12 X 50000 = 600,000).

Which would be unlikely with a shell company sold at 30,000 Baht!

Additionally I do not trust buying "second hand" companies, there is simply no way to check whether they have debts or not. They might have bought stuff on 90 days credit, you might get bitten in the behind!

So considering this rule, does that mean that NO start-up company can employ foreigners without them faffing around with re-newable three month non-immigrant Bs for two years? Is there any difference depending on the size of the company? The capital investment in this case (in total, not from me) will be in the region of 100 million baht. Does that not have any bearing at all? Also, I have been living and working here legally, paying all my taxes, with a series of one (sometimes two) year visas and WPs for 13+ years. Is this taken into account at all?

I should point out that we will not be buying a shell company but will be setting one up from scratch, although with a local partner who already owns several established and successful companies.

Again, thanks for the replies, keep them coming!

[Mario2008]

If you oersonally invest 10 million you can get a visa based on investment.

There is also the Bank Of Investment which can help you. Big companies do get breaks, but I'm not familiar with that.

Did you already had a look here: http://www.boi.go.th/english/how/legal_iss...n_investors.asp

[stbkk]

If you oersonally invest 10 million you can get a visa based on investment.

There is also the Bank Of Investment which can help you. Big companies do get breaks, but I'm not familiar with that.

Did you already had a look here: http://www.boi.go.th/english/how/legal_iss...n_investors.asp

I came over from England 7 years ago to work for a new BOI sponsored start up. It was only a small company, nothing like the initial amount you mentioned, and we had 5 work permits within a few months.

I came over on a non-imm 'B' to start with, but as soon as I got the WP, went straight onto the (I assume) non'o' extension for work route. The other 4 foreigners were all working her ebefore, and they never went back onto the non-imm 'B' either, from memory.

I'd suggest you talk to Sunbelt or someboy who knows about the current BOI assistance, as it was quite generous back then.

[Maestro]

...I came over on a non-imm 'B' to start with, but as soon as I got the WP, went straight onto the (I assume) non'o' extension for work route...

From what you write it seems that you have had successive annual extensions for employment, ie extensions of the original 90-day permission to stay you received when you arrived with your non-B visa. Standard procedure for situations like yours.

--

Maestro

[ubonjoe]

So considering this rule, does that mean that NO start-up company can employ foreigners without them faffing around with re-newable three month non-immigrant Bs for two years? Is there any difference depending on the size of the company? The capital investment in this case (in total, not from me) will be in the region of 100 million baht. Does that not have any bearing at all? Also, I have been living and working here legally, paying all my taxes, with a series of one (sometimes two) year visas and WPs for 13+ years. Is this taken into account at all?

I should point out that we will not be buying a shell company but will be setting one up from scratch, although with a local partner who already owns several established and successful companies.

Again, thanks for the replies, keep them coming!

It means getting a multiple entry visa and making border runs every 90 days (not renewal).

If you can get Board of Investment (BOI) privledges then the rules are different. Some people working for companies with BOI privledges get 2 year extensions.

See 2.1 of the police order and guide lines for the requirements to get an extension.

police_order_2008.pdf guide_lines.pdf

[Busy]

You can get a multiple non-B, valid for 1 year. During that year every time you enter Thailand you get permission to stay for 90 days, after which you would need to leave the country (just cross the border and go into another country) and come right back again for another 90 days. When you leave the country just before your visa expires you would get another 90 days, so you can get almost 15 months out of the visa, before you have to get a new multiple non-B visa.

Note that when you current employment ends, your permission to stay in Thailand will end the same day. You have to leave the country the same day but you could get an extension of stay of 7 days from immigraiton for 1,900 baht.

Employees married to a Thai national could get a non-O visa and yearly extensions of stay from immigration if the can show an income of 40,000 a month or 400,000 in a thai bankaccount.

The 40,000 a month has changed this year to 50,000,and before if you had a company with a none o marrage visa you didn't need to have 4 thai staff,now you have to have them.

You can no longer get a work permit on 40,000 per month.

You can get a none o visa with 400,000 in a thai bank,but you now have to put it in the bank 3 months before applying for one.

[lopburi3]

I believe you are talking apples and oranges. The 40k for marriage has not changed. The 400k for bank deposit requires 2 or 3 months depending on officer/office.

People get work permits every day with income less than 40k - I suspect you are talking about a category that you have not mentioned?

You do not need 400k in a Thai bank account for a visa - you do for a one year extension of stay (very different things).

[asiawatcher]

Some suggestions:

1. 3 Year Non Imm B - If you are eligible for an APEC Card you can get that online and that gives you a heap of visa bypasses including China, VN, etc. They are a 3 year card and when you apply 'offshore' for your non imm at the country issuing the APEC Card - the Non Imm is 3 years geared to your card. Cost of the card is about USD160. You do not however, get a Work Permit on an APEC but gives you come and go as many times as you want and you also get the fast track diplomat and air crew lanes at customs and immigration on both entry and exit into Thailand and other APEC member countries. You can also use that in US and UK even though they are not APEC members (yet).

2. Company - You can incorporate at the Business Office in Bangkok for about Baht 6,000 and not deal with companies and law firms charging 25-60,000 Baht. You register your company name and that gives you immediate use even though will take 4 weeks for all else to go thru. 7 shareholders, 51% Thai ownership but be smart - give your company 80% to Thai's and family members but have the share transfers of sale signed over to you and left undated to cover you butt for any future problems. You will also need 2M Baht for one work permit and 4 Thai's employees per one Farang WP. Whilst incorporating every 1M Baht 'declared' as capital costs 50 baht at time of incorporation so 10M Baht cheap as. But if you go above 5M Baht your tax rates change so don't go above that unless you want to be a travel agent or float on the SET both of which require minimum 10M Paid Up Capital. Shares can still be preference shares as the rulings are still grey i.e. 10 pref shares gets 1 vote and 1 ordinary share gets 1 vote so if the Thai's have 80% of the company they only have 8% of the vote. You at 20% have 20% of the vote or you can have them sign a proxy to remain in control.

3. Renewal of WP and Non Imm. Once you have a Non Imm your WP gets renewed in the 1st 12 months every 90 days. After 12 months and evidence of the companies Tax and VAT payments then your WP is 12 months but they screw you around at 30 days + 30 days as they review, and rarely have the WP expire at the same date as the Non Imm B. You do not need to leave the country for your Non Imm if you have a WP. It can be done at Sathorn. Work Permits are done at Din Daeng.

Hope this helps

[surayu]

I'd suggest you talk to Sunbelt or someboy who knows about the current BOI assistance, as it was quite generous back then.

and i would strongly counter-suggest that rather then give your hardly earned cash to someone that in the best of the option will just tell you what you want to hear instead of protecting your interest (so you can discover the messup at the very later stage, when you will be in trouble for not have double checked what supposed to be right), better you give your money to a local charity.....

[cutter007]

I'd suggest you talk to Sunbelt or someboy who knows about the current BOI assistance, as it was quite generous back then.

and i would strongly counter-suggest that rather then give your hardly earned cash to someone that in the best of the option will just tell you what you want to hear instead of protecting your interest (so you can discover the messup at the very later stage, when you will be in trouble for not have double checked what supposed to be right), better you give your money to a local charity.....

I second that if you are looking for expensive bad advise that will come back to bite you later on than Sunbelt is the place to go.