Growing 'holland' Type Papayas

[jaideeguy]

My absolutely favorite papaya is the one the locals call 'holland' type...so i planted some from the seeds from an extremely delicious papaya and they are now 6 ft high [no fruit or flowers yet] and the wife says she heard that they would not bare fruit....the only way to grow true holland type is go buy seedlings from a reliable nursery.

anyone know??

[allcladrad]

Generally they will produce when grown from seeds. Lots of sun and protection from the wind is key to the sweeter ones. Holland is also called Malaysian Papaya so any information could be found under that heading. We have one growing beside the house now, but it never gets to ripen as my family uses it for salad.

I think there are only two major types and all originated in Mexico. The only reason I know this is because a friend recently asked a similar question.

[rice555]

Hello jaideeguy, I have a couple hundred Holland starts which I will be transplating after I go offline. My seed is from one the main growers of Holland for Topps, Marko and other Thai outlets. I found the seed through a Thai mag article, seed he only sells bulk amounts starting 3K or 5K, it's been a while, but was around Bt.500., not bad if you look at the price of Red Lady.

From what I found on the web, Holland are from ML, but are very much like the 'Mexican Hyb' which is an old verity I got from Banana Tree seed co. in the US.

PM me for seed.

rice555

[jaideeguy]

Thanks Rice...sent you a PM.

So, the plants that I grew from seed from a market bought Holland papaya may not bare true to the parent plant?? Too bad, as the plants are looking good and I was hoping to get fruit soon.

[Smithson]

We have a lot of Papaya growing and I'm pretty sure at least two are Holland, I remember planting the seedlings, but am not 100% where. Two are now fruiting and have the distinct shape, so I think you should be right.

[rice555]

Hello Smithson, Hollands will have a heavy set fruit when still around 4-feet tall, the are a lot shorter than the 10'-15' of alot of papaya you see grown in LOS.

After re-checking my Thai translation hardware, I paid Bt.500 for 100grm of seed. That filled a 2"X5"X7" Thai PO cardboard shipping box. The last time I checked Red Lady seed her(by packet), it was Bt16.5 for 5 seed, I did find RL in Florida for $112. for 1K seed, I never checked with KYSC(from TW) in CM for a price.

rice555

[Smithson]

Hello Smithson, Hollands will have a heavy set fruit when still around 4-feet tall, the are a lot shorter than the 10'-15' of alot of papaya you see grown in LOS.

This sounds correct, a single fruit was given to me, I planted the seeds. From memory the shape is a bit different? More evenly shaped and the fruit are quite heavy.

[rice555]

Hello Smithson, I should also have said they do get bigger than 8', but they fruit are low. Another papaya that stays under is KYSC, Tiwan #1.,

I may have spelled the name wrong, but it a Hyb like Red Lady, the fruit look like kang dum's, but ripen to a yellow/goldenish color.

Known You Seed Co. in CM. 053-211-810

The have a good (in english) website for info and pictures in TW, not Thailand.

rice555

[jandtaa]

Hi Folks

Recently ordered some "Red Lady" seed from these guys Aloha Seed

Good range of papaya varieties available in 10's, 100's, 500's and 1000's at reasonable prices.

Cheers J

[jandtaa]

Propagation

Papayas are generally grown from seed. Germination may take 3 to 5 weeks. It is expedited to 2 to 3 weeks and percentage of germination increased by washing off the aril. Then the seeds need to be dried and dusted with fungicide to avoid damping-off, a common cause of loss of seedlings. Well-prepared seeds can be stored for as long as 3 years but the percentage of germination declines with age. Dipping for 15 seconds in hot water at 158º F (70º C) and then soaking for 24 hrs in distilled water after removal from storage will improve the germination rate. If germination is slow at some seasons, treatment with gibberellic acid may be needed to get quicker results.

To reproduce the characteristics of a preferred strain, air-layering has been successfully practiced on a small scale. All offshoots except the lowest one are girdled and layered after the parent plant has produced the first crop of fruit. Later, when the parent has grown too tall for convenient harvesting the top is cut off and new buds in the crown are pricked off until offshoots from the trunk appear and develop over a period of 4 to 6 weeks. These are layered and removed and the trunk cut off above the originally retained lowest sprout which is then allowed to grow as the main stem. Thereafter the layering of offshoots may be continued until the plant is exhausted.

Rooting of cuttings has been practiced in South Africa, especially to eliminate variability in certain clones so that their performance can be more accurately compared in evaluation studies. Softwood cuttings made in midsummer rooted quickly and fruited well the following summer. Cuttings taken in fall and spring were slow to root and deficient in root formation. The commercial cultivar 'Honey Gold' is grown entirely from cuttings. Once rooted, the cuttings are planted in plastic bags and kept under mist for 10 days, and then put in a shade house for hardening before setting in the field.

Hawaiian workers have found that large branches 2-3 ft (60-90 cm) long rooted more readily than small cuttings. Planted 1 ft (30 cm) deep in the rainy season, they began fruiting in a few months very close to the ground.

In budding experiments both Forkert and chip methods have proved satisfactory in Trinidad. However, it is reported that a vegetatively propagated selected strain deteriorates steadily and is worthless after 3 or 4 generations.

In Hawaii, 'Solo' grafted onto 'Dwarf Solo' was reduced in vigor and productivity, but 'Dwarf Solo' grafted onto 'Solo' showed improved performance.

In recent years, the potential of rapid propagation of papaya selections by tissue culture is being explored and promises to be feasible even for the establishment of commercial plantations of superior strains.

Efforts have been made to determine the sex of seedlings in the nursery, Indian scientists making colorimetric tests of leaf extracts have had 87% success in identifying seedlings as female; 67% in classifying males/bisexuals grouped together.

Thought you might find this extract from julia mortons book useful 

cheers J

[rice555]

Hello jandtaa, this is the co that handles the R-L seed in LOS, the Thai office and farms in the CM area. http://www.knownyou.com/

Also watermelons, spinach and other quality seed. They don't have everything in the catalog in LOS.

An interesting blog. http://www.cloudforest.com/cafe/forum/31839.html

Try this place for rootstock papaya seed, I got my Mexican Hyb here.

http://www.banana-tree.com/

rice555

[jandtaa]

Hi Rice555

Thanks interesting sites

I ordered a whole range of varieties from the aloha seed co. (seeing as they were available in tens) but hadn't thought about grafting onto a rootstock. Is this what you are doing ? People seem to suggest that carica pubescens is the favoured rootstock as it is hardier, is this just for growing in the states or worth doing here in LOS, any idea if it helps with root rot ?

came across this excerpt which makes grafting seem like a good idea any thoughts or advice much appreciated

'Eksotika' papaya segregates 2:1 for hermaphrodite and female trees and only hermaphrodite fruits are marketed in the high-end export markets. Previous methods to increase the hermaphrodite stand such as multiple point planting and in-field side-cleft grafting of hermaphrodites to replace female trees are both inconvenient and incur high establishment costs. A novel and much better approach are by cleft grafting papaya seedling at the nursery stage. Scions are first produced by cutting back certified hermaphrodite trees to induced production of side-shoots. Side-shoots can be harvested as scions for grafting at 4 wks after cutting back and about 2-3 scions can be harvested per week from a single mother plant. The 8-week old rootstock is topped-off and a slit is made for the insertion of the 'V' trimmed scion. The grafting region is wrapped firmly with parafilm before covering with plastic bag to retain humidity. The plant is ready for field planting 8 wks after grafting. The advantage of grafted papaya trees is that it bears fruits much lower and earlier and is dwarf in stature with longer economic life cycle. This technique opens up new possibilities in the commercial cultivation of papaya. It will establish a pure stand of hermaphrodite trees and there is also potential in utilizing rootstocks for tolerance to 'wet-feet' and soil-borne diseases. The areas for commercial papaya cultivation can be expanded further to include marginal areas with the use of appropriate rootstocks. This novel technology will certainly boost the production and income of papaya farmers. 

cheers for now J

[Smithson]

Regarding the Holland papayas, does this look like one, these are heavy and sweet. The seeds come from a neighbors fruit.

[rice555]

Hello Smithson, this is a lot taller and the fruit development is higher up the stock than I've seen. The fruit shape is the same.

I got the Holland because I couldn't get the one seed I wanted and I wanted a small, not large plant for ease of working.(bad back)

rice555

jandtaa try this place, 10seed to 1kg of seed, this was my source in FL.

http://www.paramountseeds.com

rice555

[Smithson]

Hello Smithson, this is a lot taller and the fruit development is higher up the stock than I've seen.

The fruit start at around 3 foot off the ground. The original papaya I was given came from a tall tree with only a few fruit. It didn't seem well looked after, the soil was dry, without mulch and the woman believed fertilizing papayas would kill them.

[jandtaa]

Cheers Rice555

I'd looked at the Paramount seeds site but only 1 KG appeared as an option on the shopping cart, if you download the pricelist 10's of seed are quoted at 5 dollars a pack, Aloha seed is 2.50 dollar for ten seed. Paramount do however probably have the best descriptions of the various varieties.

Cheers again J 

[rice555]

Hello jandtaa, I usually look through:

http://www.seedquest.com/whitepages/americas/usa/default.htm

for the US seed I buy and Paramount was in that search.

Aloha is close to where I was born and lived, we had Mac's and Intel's, but no papayas. On the other hand, Paramount is in an area you could get fruit.

$ wise, Red Lady off the shelf here today in Korat, 10-seed $1.60.

So you will come back to LOS, start the plants, transplant and go away again for 6 months to peal spuds and sling hash and miss the best part of the papaya growing cycle?

Again check Known You catalog as they do have the small fruit verities seed here.

O-T, K-Y and C-T(C-P) both have LARGE watermelon seed for sale here.

8:49PM and 28C

rice555

[jandtaa]

Hi Rice555

Whoa Fella !! Bad day at the "office" or is that 28 degrees of heat getting to ya  !!

When are you gonna understand that I'm not trying to get at you or question the valuable information you so kindly share with myself and other TV members ??

The questions I ask on this forum are because I genuinely want to learn from guys with hands on experience. I don't however feel this precludes me from doing my own research on a topic and asking pertinent questions of the "experts".

My recent postings in this thread are simply a reflection of my own personal experience of ordering papaya seed from the US whilst in the UK to grow in LOS. Quite possibly it is more relevant to members to know how to obtain it in Thailand and your advice is most valuable !! 

 Long time since I peeled a spud ( employ a couple of Mexicans for that ) and thankfully never slung a hash in my life !! Specialise in fine dining myself, something yet to reach the States by all accounts although I hear my mate Gordons trying his best to educate .

Yeah I agree it would be a shame to miss the flowering and if you think I enjoy being away from my family for 6 months of the year due to financial neccessity you couldn't be further from the truth but "where needs must" as they say. So if I use my brain and prepare the planting holes 3-4 weeks before my departure date and then get the wife to plant out at the start of the monsoon season 3-4 weeks later as would appear to be recommended I'll be back in time .

Re. Watermelon.

reckon some "icebox" varieties might be better suited to the local market although I've ordered up some xtra large for the kids !!

Growing up with intels and macs and a lack of fruit could well explain why you have seem to have a chip on your shoulder though !!

Silly O'clock in the morning and bloody freezing

regards J

[jaideeguy]

OK, thanks to a fellow poster, I now have some Holland seeds and was wondering about the best method to plant them. In Hawaii, where I'm from they plant papaya seed directly in the ground 6-8 seeds and cull the week ones, leaving 3-4 plants and wait til they sex and cull the males.

Here, they grow from seedlings in bags and transplant.

Which method is best??

And, with the upcomming rainy season, what is the best time of year?/ I know that they can be succeptible to root rot, so 'hilling' them in my clay soil seems to make sense.

Edited June 7, 2009 by jaideeguy

[jandtaa]

Hi Jaideeguy

This one's worth a read hybrid papaya cultivation guide

Here's an organic guide Jandtaa's farming docs

Papaya is also covered here Fruits of warm climates - Julia Morton

Best of luck

J

[Smithson]

Hey Jandtaa,

Once again, thanks for the links, got my printer working overtime. Apparently papaya is ideal in the early stages of agro forestry (forest gardening). It's a quick grower, that shades the ground helping to control weeds. Pineapple is another.

[rice555]

Hello All, there's a nice article on growing Holland's for export in one of the Thai ag magazines that mostly deals with fruit trees. It sort of a drive to get growers to grow for them, they want to export 60 tons of fruit a month. It covers the costs and growing in a 1-rai nethouse, and some nice pictures. The cover has the name in red(Thai) with a guy and his daughter holding bunches of that 'big tamarind' pods with papaya grove in the back ground.

rice555