Freehold - Leasehold Thai Terms?

[oz457]

Hello,

how can I recognize or see the difference between a leasehold and freehold contract? What is the actual Thai word for LEASEHOLD and the Thai word for FREEHOLD.

I ask this question because my gf owns an apartment and wants to sell it. Now a farang is interested, we want to know if she owns the apartment as a leasehold or a freehold. She bought the apartment long time ago. How can I recognise it is a freehold or leasehold contract.

As I'm not in Thailand, the language barrier (I speak and can read thai, but the technical words...) is a problem.

If someone can just translate the offical document words of FREEHOLD and LEASEHOLD I will check with the office of property what kind of contract she actually has with the apartment she currently owns.

Thanks for any help.

[monty]

Hello,

how can I recognize or see the difference between a leasehold and freehold contract? What is the actual Thai word for LEASEHOLD and the Thai word for FREEHOLD.

I ask this question because my gf owns an apartment and wants to sell it. Now a farang is interested, we want to know if she owns the apartment as a leasehold or a freehold. She bought the apartment long time ago. How can I recognise it is a freehold or leasehold contract.

As I'm not in Thailand, the language barrier (I speak and can read thai, but the technical words...) is a problem.

If someone can just translate the offical document words of FREEHOLD and LEASEHOLD I will check with the office of property what kind of contract she actually has with the apartment she currently owns.

Thanks for any help.

Should be easy to determine based on which documents she holds.

If freehold, she will have the land title deed (called a Chanoot in Thai). It's a big brownish piece of heavy paper with on it a little drawing of the condo and it's size.

If she is the first owner her name will be on the front of this paper, if she bought second hand, the name of the original owner will be on the front, while all subsequent owners will be listed on the back.

If it is leasehold, the only thing she would have is the lease contract stating the price and the terms of the lease. When registering the lease at the Land and House department, tax on the lease has been paid of which she should have an invoice.

She might also have a copy of the chanoot, and as the lessee, her name should be on the back along with the term of the lease, this gets done at the Land and House department when registering the lease and paying the required tax. This would prevent the owner to sell the property during the lease, or if he sells it, the new owner will still have to honor the lease!

Normally the original of the chanoot remains with the owner of the condo.

[pkrv]

Hello,

how can I recognize or see the difference between a leasehold and freehold contract? What is the actual Thai word for LEASEHOLD and the Thai word for FREEHOLD.

I ask this question because my gf owns an apartment and wants to sell it. Now a farang is interested, we want to know if she owns the apartment as a leasehold or a freehold. She bought the apartment long time ago. How can I recognise it is a freehold or leasehold contract.

As I'm not in Thailand, the language barrier (I speak and can read thai, but the technical words...) is a problem.

If someone can just translate the offical document words of FREEHOLD and LEASEHOLD I will check with the office of property what kind of contract she actually has with the apartment she currently owns.

Thanks for any help.

Should be easy to determine based on which documents she holds.

If freehold, she will have the land title deed (called a Chanoot in Thai). It's a big brownish piece of heavy paper with on it a little drawing of the condo and it's size.

If she is the first owner her name will be on the front of this paper, if she bought second hand, the name of the original owner will be on the front, while all subsequent owners will be listed on the back.

If it is leasehold, the only thing she would have is the lease contract stating the price and the terms of the lease. When registering the lease at the Land and House department, tax on the lease has been paid of which she should have an invoice.

She might also have a copy of the chanoot, and as the lessee, her name should be on the back along with the term of the lease, this gets done at the Land and House department when registering the lease and paying the required tax. This would prevent the owner to sell the property during the lease, or if he sells it, the new owner will still have to honor the lease!

Normally the original of the chanoot remains with the owner of the condo.

Thanks for such an informative post! You have clarified some things in my own mind, so thats where our names appear!. As a matter of interest do you know if there is any significant technical difference (in my case UK) between the western concept of freehold and a chanoot?

There is also a white typed form heavily stamped of what significance is that?

Edited May 29, 2009 by pkrv

[monty]

Not much difference.

The only difference hat I'm aware of is that in the Western world, freehold normally means the land and all buildings on it.

In Thailand it's easy to keep the buildings separate from the land. You can have the land title deed in one name, and the house book in another. This gets registered at the Land and House department, but as far as I know this is not noted on the chanoot!

With of course the biggest difference that foreigners can only have their name as owner on a chanoot from a condominium!

[pkrv]

Not much difference.

The only difference hat I'm aware of is that in the Western world, freehold normally means the land and all buildings on it.

In Thailand it's easy to keep the buildings separate from the land. You can have the land title deed in one name, and the house book in another. This gets registered at the Land and House department, but as far as I know this is not noted on the chanoot!

With of course the biggest difference that foreigners can only have their name as owner on a chanoot from a condominium!

That was one fast reply! Yes I see what you are saying and yes I have a chanoot for my condominium - you will have missed my edit

There is also a white typed form on Thai legal sized paper, heavily stamped, of what significance is that?

[monty]

There is also a white typed form heavily stamped of what significance is that?

Hard to say without seeing it, but in case of a house sitting on land I would reckon it's the building permit. It's Thai legal size, i.e. width same as A4, but about an inch longer (so you can't scan the bloody things on a regular scanner!).

Initially after or during the build the building permit enables you to get the house book, it is the person who applied for the building permit who will end up as the owner in the house book. And yes, this can be a foreigner!

[pkrv]

There is also a white typed form heavily stamped of what significance is that?

Hard to say without seeing it, but in case of a house sitting on land I would reckon it's the building permit. It's Thai legal size, i.e. width same as A4, but about an inch longer (so you can't scan the bloody things on a regular scanner!).

Initially after or during the build the building permit enables you to get the house book, it is the person who applied for the building permit who will end up as the owner in the house book. And yes, this can be a foreigner!

Not in my case just a condo for me possibly it is the power of attorney I gave to the developer to transfer the property in my name. And yes you can't scan the things! And you probably need to hang on to them for dear life!

I will try to clarify next time I am over. Thanks for all your help - PKRV

[WilliamJarvis]

The only way it can be freehold in Thailand if it is registered under the Condominium Act. If it has "Apartment" in the name, chances are it is a leasehold.

[thaiwanderer]

The only way it can be freehold in Thailand if it is registered under the Condominium Act. If it has "Apartment" in the name, chances are it is a leasehold.

not strictly true

OP - does your girlfriend not know what she bought?

[LennyW]

There is also a white typed form on Thai legal sized paper, heavily stamped, of what significance is that?

If this paper was recieved at the same time as the chanote, it is most likely the contract between the buyer and the seller.

When you submit your documents to the land office on day of purchase, they make this document up and both parties have to sign it prior to transfer of Chanote. If you look at it closely you should be able to make out addresses and a price (that you told the land office), this is also an important document and should be kept with your deeds.

[pkrv]

Because of the nature of the company I dealt with a .SETI 30 company Hemaraj - I felt quite comfortable with the actions I took in buying a condominium, and this is the subject of this thread. We own the freehold of our condominium, I am in doubt of that.

But there is a language barrier and I have three documents that I don't quite understand the function of. (Legal sized paper BTW is just an odd size of paper that has already been pointed out is tricky to scan!)

A 'blue book' - exactly what is that?

A brown (ish) legal size paper with the property boundaries marked out (condo including car parking space) which appears to be the chanoot and seems to carry our names.

A typed white, and heavily stamped legal sized paper - exactly what is that?

This is what I have, I am sort of being open here.

[LennyW]

The only way it can be freehold in Thailand if it is registered under the Condominium Act. If it has "Apartment" in the name, chances are it is a leasehold.

This statement would only apply to foreigners, as any Thai national can own whatever they want freehold.

[BiggyD]

A 'blue book' - exactly what is that? That is the Tabien Ban or House Book

A brown (ish) legal size paper with the property boundaries marked out (condo including car parking space) which appears to be the chanoot and seems to carry our names. That is the Chanot or title deed

A typed white, and heavily stamped legal sized paper - exactly what is that? That is exactly as LennyW states, the land office sales contract.

This is what I have, I am sort of being open here.

All sounds to be correct so don't worry. Just make sure that it is your name on the sales agreement and the Chanot and your are OK.Your name won't be on the house book if it is blue in colour. Foreigners can only register on yellow books!!

[pkrv]

A 'blue book' - exactly what is that? That is the Tabien Ban or House Book

A brown (ish) legal size paper with the property boundaries marked out (condo including car parking space) which appears to be the chanoot and seems to carry our names. That is the Chanot or title deed

A typed white, and heavily stamped legal sized paper - exactly what is that? That is exactly as LennyW states, the land office sales contract.

This is what I have, I am sort of being open here.

All sounds to be correct so don't worry. Just make sure that it is your name on the sales agreement and the Chanot and your are OK.Your name won't be on the house book if it is blue in colour. Foreigners can only register on yellow books!!

Thanks for the explanation - I note you have not been challenged. When I am thinking I can miss out words that kind of stuff, I use a spell checker heavily!

Because of the nature of the company I dealt with a .SETI 30 company Hemaraj - I felt quite comfortable with the actions I took in buying a condominium, and this is the subject of this thread. We own the freehold of our condominium, I am in NO doubt of that.

Sorry I can be crap at some things - but sometimes it really helps, as you have - PKRV

Edited May 29, 2009 by pkrv

[pkrv]

There is also a white typed form on Thai legal sized paper, heavily stamped, of what significance is that?

If this paper was recieved at the same time as the chanote, it is most likely the contract between the buyer and the seller.

When you submit your documents to the land office on day of purchase, they make this document up and both parties have to sign it prior to transfer of Chanote. If you look at it closely you should be able to make out addresses and a price (that you told the land office), this is also an important document and should be kept with your deeds.

Again thanks - Yes I can see the details you describe in English / Arabic numerals.

Yep this document is locked down!

[oz457]

Does that mean that Lease hold or Freehold they all have the same documents, it is what is written in the contract that is determinant if it is a freehold or a leasehold?

Or in case the documents for freehold and leasehold are different I mean have a different letter heading, please tell me what is the name of the documents for leasehold and what are the documents for freehold. If possible, what is the thai name, if possible in thai script so I can compare.

I can read thai (the basics) so that would be easier for me.

I will get a copy of the brown Chanoot document somewhere next week. I'm not in Thailand so I canot check right away.

[thaiwanderer]

with the best will in the world and a copy of standard documents to compare am i the only one thinking this is nowhere near the best (or any) way to confirm whether its freehold or leasehold, to what property it relates to, whom the owner / lessee is and more importantly whether the documents actually reflect what is currently recorded at the land office?????

[LennyW]

Does that mean that Lease hold or Freehold they all have the same documents, it is what is written in the contract that is determinant if it is a freehold or a leasehold?

Or in case the documents for freehold and leasehold are different I mean have a different letter heading, please tell me what is the name of the documents for leasehold and what are the documents for freehold. If possible, what is the thai name, if possible in thai script so I can compare.

I can read thai (the basics) so that would be easier for me.

I will get a copy of the brown Chanoot document somewhere next week. I'm not in Thailand so I canot check right away.

No, read what Monty wrote in post #2, but to clarify, where Monty wrote she may have a copy of the chanote, in the last paragraph about leasehold, that means a photocopy.

Freehold = Chanote

Leasehold = Contract and maybe a Photocopy of the Chanote

There is no specific document for a leasehold, it will be a contract agreed between the two partys.

[katabeachbum]

IFreehold = Chanote

Leasehold = Contract and maybe a Photocopy of the Chanote

There is no specific document for a leasehold, it will be a contract agreed between the two partys.

On the back page of the land title deed/Chanote the leashold is registered by the land office. In other word your name is written there as the last name.

The lease content/agreement is in the lease agreement. In the lease agreement I would state that Chanote should be held by who payed for the lease, not the "owner".