360 foreigners nabbed for visa runs

[Bob Chittie]

I received this in my e-mail:

Chaos at Bangkok Embassies and Thai Immigration

360 foreigners nailed for "agent visa runs"

Stand by for updated news:

http://forum.thaivisa.com

But I can't fins the story on the website. Anyone know where it is?

[Khun Larry]

The Thai leaders are really disgusting.

They have lived up to and surpassed their harshest critics.

[Bob Chittie]

And how many foreigners have to be arrrested by the very same people who have been profiting from the visa agencies before the Bangkok Post runs a prominently placed article?

[ando]

Could they be considered illegal immigrants?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Yes they are illegals but I suspect Thailand won't call them immigrants.

[Bob Chittie]

So are they now cracking down on anyone they beleive may have ever used a visa agency, EVEN if the stamps are real?  If the stamps are real, how could they possibly prove you used an agency unless they confiscated your passport in transit.

[en184]

Please put the story online.

Or has the thai govt asked for it to be removed?

Or are they beggars, not illegal farangs?

[taxexile]

so many posts

so many theories

so much speculation

but few hard facts.

nothing (hardly anything) in the nation or post yet,

and they call themselves newspapers.

maybe trink has heard something on the grapevine.

any word from the foriegn correspondents club?

they should be well connected to accurate news sources.

any news on the embassies big get together yet?

what is going on??

[zuyzuy]

It is easily seen from our passpord that you have done an visa agent run.

From the fact that you do not have an exit stamp. Only entry!

[cmep]

In Sadao, Padang Besar and Ban Da Nok, no one is talking about this. 200 foreigners arrested here? There is no place to hold them. If someone posts the name of the palce they are holding people, I will check it out, but asking connected people over the last 3 days has turned up nothing!

[opalhort]

I received this in my e-mail:

Chaos at Bangkok Embassies and Thai Immigration

360 foreigners nailed for "agent visa runs"

Stand by for updated news:

http://forum.thaivisa.com

But I can't fins the story on the website. Anyone know where it is?

right, same question here!

if this storry is true, why has it not been reported in the press?

on another note:

on Fri. 19.09.03 Mr. Trink mentioned in his column (BKK Post) a meeting of the "Expats' Association of Thailand" on Sun. (21.09.03) where a "Police Senior Sergeant Major Kanit" was supposed to answer questions about visas for Thailand.

Does anybody know anything about the outcome of this meeting?

opalhort

[randyksf]

If you are legal don't worry. As my Thai partner told me, “Just wait until the APEX is over then the government will find something else stress on. “

Just imagine what the Thai government is feeling, having the worlds super power leaders  here. The CIA alone will make it a living heck.

How can they honestly say the place is secure, if it is a known fact there are so many people here illegally.

If you did something like an illegal visa run in the US the consequences would be the same. Besides the Thai’s just go a 10 million USD incentive to check out all the people here.

Also I think Thailand is trying to change it reputation of the hore house of Asia. So they are asking why people are here. The PM might say he wants investor of 40 million baht. He is no fool. He knows most of the people who are doing business are between 1 - 5 million baht.  

Time will tell, running around scared is foolish. Sit back and relax the Apex is all most here.

Know the facts and if you think you are going to be busted. Go to your embassy and see what they can do. Be proactive rather than wait to be busted by the Thai’s.

[bazza]

its not a joke, there are REAL people involved in this. these stories are not make believe or scaremongering.ive been at my embassy everyday and each day there are new people and more horror stories. so its not make believe if thats what you mean

[Kan Win]

its not a joke, there are REAL people involved in this. these stories are not make believe or scaremongering.ive been at my embassy everyday and each day there are new people and more horror stories. so its not make believe if thats what you mean

So, do you work at the Embassy  >>> as you quoted : you are there : everyday and each day ??

[Art]

I received this in my e-mail:

Chaos at Bangkok Embassies and Thai Immigration

360 foreigners nailed for "agent visa runs"

Stand by for updated news:

http://forum.thaivisa.com

But I can't find the story on the website. Anyone know where it is?

Bob,

Take that "360 foreigners nailed for agent visa runs" with a big grain of salt.  It was apparently an unconfirmed rumor.  Thaivisa.com did not provide a link to any story.

With the number of rumors floating around, no wonder the mainstream press does not want to publish until it is certain of the facts.

It would be better if people would wait to come to conclusions until they can read confirmed, factual information rather than depending upon message board rumors and unconfirmed "stories".

[seville]

Could it be that the papers wouldn't want to print the amount of people being arrested. That is bound to turn of tourist from coming to LOS and would really drive the point home that the visa agent practice has been going on for a long time

[en184]

1 farang a day is arrested ?

the 360 figure is just to boost website viewership and so the revenues of thaivisa.

[Rambutan]

Why has nobody of the Thaivisa crew given any comment as to why this "fake?" mail was send?

George?

[PK2]

Does anybody know anything about the outcome of this meeting?

opalhort

On another  board (nanapong) Mekhong Khurt says in answer to the same question after meeting:

The visa question is really confusing.

I passed along to a number of people yesterday a report from a website I have found reliable, www.thaivisa.com, that 360 foreigners were arrested for having fake visas; that repirt was timed/dated something like 5:47 A.M. Monday, September 22, 2003, according to the header of the e-mail in which I received the report. And I had numerous phone calls from people all day yesterday, some asking me about it, others telling me they had heard from their Thai sources -- including in a couple instances *police* sources -- that such an event had indeed occured.

But when my police buddy physically *went* to the Immigration Bureau Tuesday afternoon to inquire at my request, he was told a flat "no," at least insofar as the immigration authorities were concerned. But my friend confused the issue (for me, anyway) when he added that it might have been done by the regular police but for that not to be known to immigration. I asked him how the regular police could round up *anyone* on an immigration law violation *without* the Immigration Bureau knowing about it at *some* point -- presumably sooner rather than later. All he said was that it was up to the arresting police, or words to that effect.

I've just checked here, www.thaivisa.com, The Bangkok Post, The Nation, and the BBC, and found no new info in their latest editions, let alone any postive such, regarding the rumored mass arrest. I can only assume this absence of any reports strongly indicates the entire report was a case either of badly mistaken information or of a hoax. I *did* see one headline that Thailand plans to "arlift foreign 'beggars,'" though I didn't read it since that has nothing to do with the reported event Monday.

There seems to be no way to assure oneself what will happen when he next leaves the country to get a new visa at a Thai embassy or consulate abroad, even if his previous visa is perfectly legitimate and goes unchallenged. My police friend told me last night it's normally up to the individual embassy or consulate to make a decision on whether or not to give an individual a visa at all -- and to decide what *types* of visa that particular outpost will issue. One presumes if the Foreign Ministry were to issue a specific instruction it would be obeyed, but in the absence of instructions, apparently this is true.

My friend told me if next time I go out (and I have legitimate visas in my passport, one most recently issued by the consulate in Vientiane last month) if I ask for a one-year, multiple-entry visa for me to be prepared both for extensive interrogation and a very real possibility of being denied the visa. If one isn't illegally working, has no criminal record (I don't mean a minor traffic offense or anything mundane like that), and brings in and spends appreciable foreign exchange each month, I can't see why any country would mind simplifying things for foreigners. After all, there are lots of people here on retirement visas and marriage visas, and not a single one in either category I personally know (and that's a fair number) have ever reported any problems renewing once they had the visa in place. And that includes folks on shoestring budgets.

I should add that in my 9+ years here, I personally have had no problems with Immigration, for which I am grateful. I've overstayed a few times, but always been treated courteously and without rancor, even as I paid my fine. Nor was I given any difficulties upon presenting myself to a visa office outside the Kingdom or upon my return.

About the only points my friend told me that appear to be pretty inarguably true are (1.) to use a visa service places one at considerable legal risk, as to do so is far more serious, as I understand it, under Thai law than is a simple overstay; and, (2.) to have a long string of back-to-back 30-day visas-on-arrival is being heavily frowned upon in Immigration's corridors of power.

To sum up -- what in the heck do *I* know??? ;-)

[taxexile]

here is an edited report of that meeting.

   

» September 21 meeting report  

 

Topic: September 21 meeting report, Expats' association of thailand meeting  

MekhongKurt

Administrator

Group: Members

Posts: 41

Joined: July 2003  Posted: Sep. 22 2003,10:49  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't know what in the world happened to the report in my other posting, so here it is:

We are greatly pleased to report that the meeting on September 21st saw a record number of people attending -- a rather astonishing 48! Police Senior Sergeant Major Kanit made a few basic comments regarding visas for Thailand -- then spent the next hour-and-a-half addressing individual questions and concerns.

After the meeting he reminded me of something both he and I forgot to mention during the meeting: all of us would be wise *not* to use a visa service to take our passports out of the country when we are required to exit the Kingdom, as there is a *major* crackdown on such activities. Not many weeks ago nearly a hundred foreigners were arrested in Phuket for using such services, and they were expelled from Thailand *and* declared Persona Non Grata -- meaning they cannot re-enter Thailand, as they aren't welcome.

We also had 8 new members sign up,

Don't forget that next Sunday, September 28th, we will have an address by Attorney Dawn Kitt of the law firm Kitt & Murray

[Indo-Siam]

Looking over the various threads in this section of this discussion board, I read things about Thai Xenophobia, and unhelpful embassies, and posters repeatedly lamenting about "What is going on here?"

I have no particular inside knowledge, but just looking over the entire affair, it seems fairly obvious to me what is happening.   Here's the story:

1.  For a long time, Thailand has been reknowned as an easy place to get into, and to illegelly stay within.

2.  Along comes 9/11, and the Bali bombing, and the Jakarta bombing, and finally the arrest of Himbali.  

3.  As all these events are transpiring, and with the APEC heads of state meeting upcoming, Thailand starts receiving heavy press and diplomatic criticism - your airport is too vulnerable, your border is too porous - Thailand - YOU REALLY MUST DO SOMETHING TO TIGHTEN UP YOUR IMMIGRATION PROCEDURES - really!

4.  The various foreoign emabssies here in Thailand are all turning in to the Foreign Ministry foreign diplomatic requests that Thailand crack down on illegal entries and overstays, and also fake document mills.   Overseas powers are merciless - they keep hammering Thailand, basically overstepping Thailand's national sovereignty by telling Thailand how to run its internal affairs.  Well, it is "war on terrorism" time - no time for kid gloves.

5.  Taksin and his cronies finally have had enough with all the international pissing and moaning directed at Thailand.  I can almost see it now - Thailand asking all its critics "Do you really, REALLY want us to crack down on phony documents, and illegal immigration violaters?  Are you sure that's what you REALLY want?"  And the various big governments all respond with a chorus of "Yes, yes - crack down on all the dodgy activity, stamp it out right now, CRUSH IT!".

6.  So, Thailand's government puts the word out.  Immigration rules and immigration-related document forgery are now areas of SUPER emphasis.  No more farting around.  To make the pont clear, Taksin sacks a few immigration colonels - just to show that he's serious.  And - the Immigration Police apparatus goes into high gear.

7.  Result - violators get busted in record numbers.  No slack means - huge numbers of foreigners getting nicked.   This is what all the overseas powers were SCREAMING at Thailand to do - tighten upn its borders.  So Thailand did what it was asked, as a gesture of capitulation against overwhelming international pressure.

8.  Now, all the punters who are getting picked up are blaiming Thailand, blaming their embassies, blaming the newspapers for individually persecuting THEM.   Well, guys, don't take it personally.  You are just pawns in the wider diplomatic game.  Guys are getting arrested and prosecuted because their very own countries and embassies INSISTED that Thailand crack down on illegal immigration document mills and fake visa services.

9.  I think the Taksin government is - at the international diplomatic level - doing  great job of teaching all its critics an unforgettable lesson about seeking to interfere with Thailand's sovereignty, and criticize Thailand.  It is also amassing some inexpensive bargaining chips to use in securing diplomatic concessions for itself.  Unfortunately, a lot of mildly illegal foreign chaps are suffering the fallout - at  level that is probably more appropriate for true terrorists.

All of the above is just conjecture, but it seems pretty obvious that this is close to the mark.  As a result, I think its a waste of time to put too much more long-term effort into protesting the current state of affairs.  I suspect that over time, things will slide back a few notches lower on the strictness scale, but that - in general - the days when Thailand ran a Swiss cheese immigration operation are basically over.  And it is NOT Taksin's original doing - he was pushed into it by the big global powers  leading the war on terrorism.

My two satang.

Indo-Siam

[JT65]

I know you have coped a bit of flak on the board recently but I agree with your last post 100%. I think your hypothesis is right on the money!

[massein]

I also add my agreement, We this assessment. Also after the initial shot. rational thinking will take over and, ppl that simple were navie are fooled will be weeded out form the crontic offender's. sure 3 years ago I foolishy use a visa service 2 times, thenI got married and have had a marriage visa, build a home, and have been have a quite life in a small northren villege. This may also be navie thinking on my part. but if asked i will be truthful and hope for the best, After all I have a familly to think about.

[parryhandy]

Totally agree as well . I pointed this out on another post . All this has come from the west.OK it could have been handled better ie ascertaining that the people arested are not terrorists and just fining them . Also think the thai people involved should be prosecuted as well but thats by the by.