Livinginexile Posted June 1, 2009 Author Share Posted June 1, 2009 Sitting at a bar on the ground floor of Nana Plaza the other week I noticed that all the bar girls stopped and prayed at their respective little alters.Not just some of them...ALL of them. Now this somewhat seemed hypocritical to me and got me wondering just what it is they are actually praying for. Are they praying for: 1) God ... 2) God ... 3) God ... Do you know anything about Buddhism? Errm...Buddha is not a God? No but there are Gods in Buddhism, whom they pray to. So Buddha is not a God? Is that what you are saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tijnebijn Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 (edited) Why would it be hypocritical? Praying for good fortune whilst selling their body for money! would this be classed as hypocritical? What do you think The Lord Buddha's take on this would be? Approval? Do you know what "Hypocritical" means? The spirit houses has nothing to do with Buddhism or the Buddha , or the occupation the girls have , its a Thai custom whatever business their livelyhoods have . READ . Edited June 1, 2009 by tijnebijn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonrakers Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 If Buddha is not a god, but there are gods in Buddhism does that make Buddha a god by proxy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tijnebijn Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 If Buddha is not a god, but there are gods in Buddhism does that make Buddha a god by proxy? There are no Gods or God in Buddhism . Its the wrong understanding of westeners of religion , assuming there must be a God . Well there isn't and in Buddhism there isn't any ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonobo Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 So Buddha is not a God?Is that what you are saying? THat is correct. While not a prefect analogy, Gautama Buddha can be thought of as someone more akin to Mohammed, a human who brought a message to the people, but not an actual god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livinginexile Posted June 1, 2009 Author Share Posted June 1, 2009 If Buddha is not a god, but there are gods in Buddhism does that make Buddha a god by proxy? There are no Gods or God in Buddhism . Its the wrong understanding of westeners of religion , assuming there must be a God . Well there isn't and in Buddhism there isn't any ! That's interesting, I never knew that! I always thought of him as a God. Because people pray to him and temples are dedicated to him. My wife is a devout Buddhist and prays for 40 minutes every day, in my Christian upbringing one only prays to God! Ah well, you learn something everyday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonrakers Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 If Buddha is not a god, but there are gods in Buddhism does that make Buddha a god by proxy? There are no Gods or God in Buddhism . Its the wrong understanding of westeners of religion , assuming there must be a God . Well there isn't and in Buddhism there isn't any ! I am not doubting you, after all I don't claim to know much about it. But if there is no religion in Buddhism then why are Hindhu gods depicted so often in Buddhist temples etc. Genuine question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absingjul Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 You think too mutt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camerata Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Why would it be hypocritical? Praying for good fortune whilst selling their body for money! would this be classed as hypocritical? What do you think The Lord Buddha's take on this would be? Approval? Do you know what "Hypocritical" means? "Hypocrite: a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, esp. a person whose actions belie stated beliefs." I don't see how a bargirl paying respect to a spirit house or even asking protection from the Buddha is hypocritical. She is not pretending to have any particular beliefs - she really has them. She believes the house spirits may get angry if not given appropriate respect and she believes praying to Buddha or reciting some mantra may protect her from life's dangers. The Buddha is not a god and never has been, but it's a tradition in Theravada Buddhism that reciting his teachings or making merit has some protective power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonobo Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 If Buddha is not a god, but there are gods in Buddhism does that make Buddha a god by proxy? There are no Gods or God in Buddhism . Its the wrong understanding of westeners of religion , assuming there must be a God . Well there isn't and in Buddhism there isn't any ! I am not doubting you, after all I don't claim to know much about it. But if there is no religion in Buddhism then why are Hindhu gods depicted so often in Buddhist temples etc. Genuine question. That is actually a very good question. Buddhism arose from Hinuism, and many of the aspects of Hinduism survie to today here. There are Hindu shrines apletny in Thailand, and the amulet craze of last year, where men wore huge bling-looking medalions, well, those were Hindu amulets. I think it is much like Christianity in Mexcio and Brazil were a pantheon of other gods/spirits are still worshiped and incorporated into more traditional Christianity, or the Dervish beliefs being melded into mainstream Islam. I don't believe that most Thai Buddhists even realize that they incorporate Hinduism into their every day Buddhist beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaimai Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Why would it be hypocritical? Praying for good fortune whilst selling their body for money! would this be classed as hypocritical? What do you think The Lord Buddha's take on this would be? Approval? Do you know what "Hypocritical" means? "Hypocrite: a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, esp. a person whose actions belie stated beliefs." I don't see how a bargirl paying respect to a spirit house or even asking protection from the Buddha is hypocritical. She is not pretending to have any particular beliefs - she really has them. She believes the house spirits may get angry if not given appropriate respect and she believes praying to Buddha or reciting some mantra may protect her from life's dangers. The OP's ignorance was evident from his phrasing of the initial question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdman Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 If Buddha is not a god, but there are gods in Buddhism does that make Buddha a god by proxy? There are no Gods or God in Buddhism . Its the wrong understanding of westeners of religion , assuming there must be a God . Well there isn't and in Buddhism there isn't any ! I am not doubting you, after all I don't claim to know much about it. But if there is no religion in Buddhism then why are Hindhu gods depicted so often in Buddhist temples etc. Genuine question. To make life easier for common people on the way to the ultimate "state", which is very difficult, often impossible to explain. Same reason like in other religions with the respective pantheon . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSnake Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Sitting at a bar on the ground floor of Nana Plaza the other week I noticed that all the bar girls stopped and prayed at their respective little alters.Not just some of them...ALL of them. Now this somewhat seemed hypocritical to me and got me wondering just what it is they are actually praying for. Are they praying for: 1) God to help them get out of this awefull mess they've found themselves in? (unlikely) 2) God to give them a rich jai dee customer tonight? 3) God to bless their family and friends? 4) Non of the above they just pray out of habit. What else could they be praying for? ALL of the ABOVE, Thank You Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camerata Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 I don't believe that most Thai Buddhists even realize that they incorporate Hinduism into their every day Buddhist beliefs. I think educated Thais know that Brahmanism (i.e. Hinduism) arose in the period when large areas of what is now Thailand were part of the Cambodian (Indian-influenced) empire. In particular, most of Thailand's rajasap (royal language) is based on Khmer, and royal ceremonies such as the Ploughing Ceremony are Brahmanical. But it's all part of Thais' sacred belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbin Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Why would it be hypocritical? Praying for good fortune whilst selling their body for money! would this be classed as hypocritical? What do you think The Lord Buddha's take on this would be? Approval? Do you know what "Hypocritical" means? Hmmm....So, selling (renting out, actually) your muscles or your brain is ok, but selling (renting out, actually) your genitals puts you beyond the pale, forfeiting your right to pray for a better or more prosperous life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonobo Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 I don't believe that most Thai Buddhists even realize that they incorporate Hinduism into their every day Buddhist beliefs. I think educated Thais know that Brahmanism (i.e. Hinduism) arose in the period when large areas of what is now Thailand were part of the Cambodian (Indian-influenced) empire. In particular, most of Thailand's rajasap (royal language) is based on Khmer, and royal ceremonies such as the Ploughing Ceremony are Brahmanical. But it's all part of Thais' sacred belief. Probably true. I have two good friends who are very well versed in this, but then again, when we have a conversation relating to this with other educated Thais present, sometimes the others seem quite surprised and not all that convinced. Oh, they know about the language and the influence Indian culture has had on temples and such, but the fact that Hinduism (Brahmanism) continues to influence modern Buddhist life is a surprise to some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geekfreaklover Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Thervada Buddism as practiced in Thailand by most Thais is in fact a fusion of many religions. The earlist is Animisim - the belief in spirits, tree spirits, animal spirits. Then Hindusim and Brahism brought over by the Indian Moors who settled in Cambodia. Following that the teachings of Buddha - The belief in Dharma. If you go to many Khmer temples you can see how the early temples use hini dieties (gods) and later temples have images of Buddha The Buddha would not have approved of working girls. He was not a sex man - despite raising a son and being an absent father for many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camerata Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Hmmm....So, selling (renting out, actually) your muscles or your brain is ok, but selling (renting out, actually) your genitals puts you beyond the pale, forfeiting your right to pray for a better or more prosperous life? Interestingly, there is nothing in the Pali Canon that says you can't sell sex for money. It wouldn't be considered a "skillful" action, but it isn't specifically prohibited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camerata Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 The Buddha would not have approved of working girls. He was not a sex man - despite raising a son and being an absent father for many years. One of the Buddha's most devoted followers was a courtesan whom he never criticized. He seemed more concerned about men who spend a lot of time with "harlots." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patklang Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 so many bargirls so few customers! maybe they praying for bargirl quotas ive yet to meet a bargirl who had a boyfriend . its like a sex tourist hooking up w a hi so thai chineeswe You better chat with mr and mrs pig then.Many many bar girls and many many many gogo dancers have thai bf,but we call them pimps. onlt 24 posts suggest you are very wet behind the ears my good man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonobo Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 (edited) Hmmm....So, selling (renting out, actually) your muscles or your brain is ok, but selling (renting out, actually) your genitals puts you beyond the pale, forfeiting your right to pray for a better or more prosperous life? Interestingly, there is nothing in the Pali Canon that says you can't sell sex for money. It wouldn't be considered a "skillful" action, but it isn't specifically prohibited. Interesting point. I read one paper once which stated that the Christian Bible (and I would asume the Torah) does not prohibit prostitution as well. It merely states in one Old Testament verse that one cannot use income derived from prostitution to pay for one's holy vows. There is even an interpretation that thsi is only aimed at male prostitutes, and that females may in fact use income thus earned to pay their vows. I have no idea about the Koran and what it might have decreed on prostitution, or what Hinduism says about it (although the blatant sexuality on many of the temples would lead one to wonder), but if at least three major religions have no expressed prohibition on prostitution, why all the "moral" attacks on it? Just curious. Edited June 1, 2009 by bonobo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neeranam Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 The Buddha would not have approved of working girls. He was not a sex man - despite raising a son and being an absent father for many years. One of the Buddha's most devoted followers was a courtesan whom he never criticized. He seemed more concerned about men who spend a lot of time with "harlots." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geekfreaklover Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 so many bargirls so few customers! maybe they praying for bargirl quotas ive yet to meet a bargirl who had a boyfriend . its like a sex tourist hooking up w a hi so thai chineeswe You better chat with mr and mrs pig then.Many many bar girls and many many many gogo dancers have thai bf,but we call them pimps. onlt 24 posts suggest you are very wet behind the ears my good man. I would say about 80% have Thai boyfriends. And thats being generous. They are mostly motorcycle taxi drivers. Both from Isaan. Both in the service industry and both offer cheap rides in the city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neeranam Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 (edited) Wow are you trolling or something ....Buddha is not a God no , Although they say it is a religion , it really is not , it is a philosophy a way of living . The Buddha is the man who has showed common people how to walk the walk . In Buddhism its a fact that there is no such thing as a God , erm... do I believe you or HH Dalai Lama? I met HH Dalai Lama in India years ago and got lectures on Buddhism. As fara as I remember there ARE Gods in Buddhism, according to the teachers. Yidams and they can, and do intervene in the world as most people know it. Also Buddhas and Boddhisatvas can too. Brahma is the original Buddhist god. Edited June 1, 2009 by Neeranam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geekfreaklover Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Hmmm....So, selling (renting out, actually) your muscles or your brain is ok, but selling (renting out, actually) your genitals puts you beyond the pale, forfeiting your right to pray for a better or more prosperous life? Interestingly, there is nothing in the Pali Canon that says you can't sell sex for money. It wouldn't be considered a "skillful" action, but it isn't specifically prohibited. Interesting point. I read one paper once which stated that the Christian Bible (and I would asume the Torah) does not prohibit prostitution as well. It merely states in one Old Testament verse that one cannot use income derived from prostitution to pay for one's holy vows. There is even an interpretation that thsi is only aimed at male prostitutes, and that females may in fact use income thus earned to pay their vows. I have no idea about the Koran and what it might have decreed on prostitution, or what Hinduism says about it (although the blatant sexuality on many of the temples would lead one to wonder), but if at least three major religions have no expressed prohibition on prostitution, why all the "moral" attacks on it? Just curious. I think you know the answer. Because it is being looked at from a Christian angle. A religion built on guilt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geekfreaklover Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Wow are you trolling or something ....Buddha is not a God no , Although they say it is a religion , it really is not , it is a philosophy a way of living . The Buddha is the man who has showed common people how to walk the walk . In Buddhism its a fact that there is no such thing as a God , erm... do I believe you or HH Dalai Lama? I met HH Dalai Lama in India years ago and got lectures on Buddhism. As fara as I remember there ARE Gods in Buddhism, according to the teachers. Yidams and they can, and do intervene in the world as most people know it. Also Buddhas and Boddhisatvas can too. Brahma is the original Buddhist god. I think Brahma is the original Hindu god, which predates the birth of Buddha. I might be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villagefarang Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Soldiers pray before killing others. Boxers pray before punching someone's lights out. Gamblers pray before loosing all their money. Competitors of every variety pray to win at the expense of their rivals. God's are biased and easily manipulated, it would seem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neeranam Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 http://world.rediff.com/news/article/www/n...jul/09look1.htm I went to the above temple and experienced something I've never felt before - truly amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njpski Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Sitting at a bar on the ground floor of Nana Plaza the other week I noticed that all the bar girls stopped and prayed at their respective little alters.Not just some of them...ALL of them. Now this somewhat seemed hypocritical to me and got me wondering just what it is they are actually praying for. Are they praying for: 1) God to help them get out of this awefull mess they've found themselves in? (unlikely) 2) God to give them a rich jai dee customer tonight? 3) God to bless their family and friends? 4) Non of the above they just pray out of habit. What else could they be praying for? Firstly, they would pray that commentators on their behaviour would be able to use English correctly Secondly, they would pray for luck Thirdly, they would pray for their family. They would be intent on making merit. Unlike the masters of the universe who screwed us all for their own satisfaction and our money, the hard working ladies are giving satisfaction to their clients at a reasonable rate and looking after their families. They are very moral people who are true to themselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neeranam Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Soldiers pray before killing others. Boxers pray before punching someone's lights out. Gamblers pray before loosing all their money. Competitors of every variety pray to win at the expense of their rivals. God's are biased and easily manipulated, it would seem. There's no need to mock - ok maybe just maybe you are right and 4 billion others are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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