Air France Plane Drops Off Radar Over Atlantic

[CFIT]

Just a question at CGJTT / Carib and CFIL: Are you guys airplane enthousiasts, play alot of Flight Simulator or are an employee with Airbus? Or anything else?

Nah, we just can't hang at the pro sites so we get to show off on the layman sites.

(btw it's CFIT; Controlled Flight Into Terrain )

What gets me is loss reference instruments,

If I were a pilot of one of these over automated wonders I think I'd take along one of those gyroscopic car compasses with glow in the dark increments that sticks on the window, at least you'd have some attitude reference if/when all the instruments go out at night or in a cloud .

[Mosha]

Footage of the boarding passengers id being studied. 2 of the passengers had either the same names as known terrorists, or they were on board.

[jackdanielsesq]

Normally these whackos rely heavily on the media - otherwise my money would have been on C4, etc.

BR>Jack

[Datsun240Z]

Sounds fichy... BOM

[isanb]

Footage of the boarding passengers id being studied. 2 of the passengers had either the same names as known terrorists, or they were on board.

when ur terrorist and u want to board a plane to blow it will u use ur real name ?

Can imagine : "hello mister Bin laden, seat 2A on the right please, and don't let ur bomb on the floor thank u and have a nice flight till u blow it"

Edited June 12, 2009 by isanb

[Daffy D]

An Italian woman who missed Air France Flight 447, which crashed in the Atlantic, has died in a car crash, the ANSA news agency reports.!

Chicago News

Johanna Ganthaler a retiree from the Bolzano-Bozen province, was on vacation in Brazil with her husband Kurt when the pair miraculously missed the doomed flight to Paris. But their luck ran out on an Austrian road earlier this week when their car swerved into the path of an oncoming truck outside the town of Kufstein, the Times (U.K.) reported. - She died.

Guess if your time is up you can't escape.

[bkkjames]

Footage of the boarding passengers id being studied. 2 of the passengers had either the same names as known terrorists, or they were on board.

when ur terrorist and u want to board a plane to blow it will u use ur real name ?

Can imagine : "hello mister Bin laden, seat 2A on the right please, and don't let ur bomb on the floor thank u and have a nice flight till u blow it"

Mosha, do you have a link to this development?

thanks

[robbiecia]

An Italian woman who missed Air France Flight 447, which crashed in the Atlantic, has died in a car crash, the ANSA news agency reports.!

Chicago News

Johanna Ganthaler a retiree from the Bolzano-Bozen province, was on vacation in Brazil with her husband Kurt when the pair miraculously missed the doomed flight to Paris. But their luck ran out on an Austrian road earlier this week when their car swerved into the path of an oncoming truck outside the town of Kufstein, the Times (U.K.) reported. - She died.

Guess if your time is up you can't escape.

That sounds scary

Just like those movies about the kids that cheat death only to die one by one later

[Mosha]

Footage of the boarding passengers id being studied. 2 of the passengers had either the same names as known terrorists, or they were on board.

when ur terrorist and u want to board a plane to blow it will u use ur real name ?

Can imagine : "hello mister Bin laden, seat 2A on the right please, and don't let ur bomb on the floor thank u and have a nice flight till u blow it"

Mosha, do you have a link to this development?

thanks

James sorry for the delay, a bit busy real life chasing visa extension. This is what I found, but I think it's largely being discounted. The argument being the fuel would have burnt up in any explosion. Still it doesn't mean the were not on board, just means the flight wasn't the target.

http://gawker.com/5286602/two-suspected-te...ance-flight-447

[LaoPo]

Earlier today I read a report that 50 bodies have been recovered so far.

French and Brazilian search teams will keep on searching for at least one more week. The high seawater temperature of 28 C is not in favor of recovering more bodies.

Investigators think that there was no explosion because none of the recovered bodies showed any signs of burns. They think the plane broke into pieces during the flight, whatever the reason(s).

All bodies were nud_e or almost nud_e. That was due to the free fall whereby their clothes were ripped off. All bodies showed multiple and severe broken bones all over the body due to the impact on the ocean surface.

May they RIP.

LaoPo

[CFIT]

Earlier today I read a report that 50 bodies have been recovered so far.

French and Brazilian search teams will keep on searching for at least one more week. The high seawater temperature of 28 C is not in favor of recovering more bodies.

Investigators think that there was no explosion because none of the recovered bodies showed any signs of burns. They think the plane broke into pieces during the flight, whatever the reason(s).

All bodies were nud_e or almost nud_e. That was due to the free fall whereby their clothes were ripped off. All bodies showed multiple and severe broken bones all over the body due to the impact on the ocean surface.

May they RIP.

LaoPo

As was posted on PPRuNe this assumption about high altitude falls ripping off clothes is false.

A study with dropped manikins show clothes mostly stay on , until they are dropped over water , and what actually de- nudes them is the wave action.

Also explosive decompression ( no not bombs, but excessive force from the pressurized airframe bursting at high altitude) can rip clothing off.

[LaoPo]

Earlier today I read a report that 50 bodies have been recovered so far.

French and Brazilian search teams will keep on searching for at least one more week. The high seawater temperature of 28 C is not in favor of recovering more bodies.

Investigators think that there was no explosion because none of the recovered bodies showed any signs of burns. They think the plane broke into pieces during the flight, whatever the reason(s).

All bodies were nud_e or almost nud_e. That was due to the free fall whereby their clothes were ripped off. All bodies showed multiple and severe broken bones all over the body due to the impact on the ocean surface.

May they RIP.

LaoPo

As was posted on PPRuNe this assumption about high altitude falls ripping off clothes is false.

A study with dropped manikins show clothes mostly stay on , until they are dropped over water , and what actually de- nudes them is the wave action.

Also explosive decompression ( no not bombs, but excessive force from the pressurized airframe bursting at high altitude) can rip clothing off.

Post # 1475/page 74 in the PPRuNe* site mentioned today:

"All recovered bodies have been without clothes - which this thread will tell you is common."

I wonder if the dropped mannequins (you mentioned) were dropped from the same altitude as the plane was supposed to be, some 11.000 meters or 36.300 feet. You claim there was a study; can you provide a link ?

It also seems odd to me that all found bodies (which were nud_e) were stripped off their clothes by the waves or/and explosive decompression.

Some could have been, but not all I suppose.

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/376433-af447-74.html

Let's hope they can find the black box(es) as the signaling will stop on or around July 1, some 30 days after the accident.

LaoPo

[Mosha]

From MSN, one of the automatic messages reported 'Problems with the rudder limiter.' That restricts the movement of the rudder at high speed. If that failed, the stabaliser may have been ripped off.

Edited June 14, 2009 by Mosha

[cloudhopper]

Also explosive decompression ( no not bombs, but excessive force from the pressurized airframe bursting at high altitude) can rip clothing off.

I don't remember anyone's clothes being ripped off during explosive decompression in an altitude chamber session at 30.000 feet. Instant fog but not even any discomfort as I recall...

[Carib]

Also explosive decompression ( no not bombs, but excessive force from the pressurized airframe bursting at high altitude) can rip clothing off.

I don't remember anyone's clothes being ripped off during explosive decompression in an altitude chamber session at 30.000 feet. Instant fog but not even any discomfort as I recall...

True, lots and lots of fog. Had a guy calling out for the fire brigade ones when it happened during a maintenance check which went wrong. He had never experienced a fast decompression. Plane had a small decompression/smoke removal hatch and it was used since the pressure controller didn't respond fast enough as the limits were about to be exceeded.

The components missing of course with ground handling or crew indoctrination, are fwd speed/altitude uncontrolled fall and possible impact.

I don't think, that is this stage citing from other sites will do any good. There is absolutely no site to be found with the answers to this crash. It is ALL pure speculation. Some good theories out there, but that is all what it is, just theories.

[LaoPo]

Part of an article by AP:

"Brazilian authorities say they have recovered 43 bodies and another six have been pulled from the Atlantic by French ships.

The U.S. Navy device, called a Towed Pinger Locator, was trying to detect emergency audio beacons, or pings, from Flight 447's black boxes, which could be lying thousands of feet (meters) below the ocean surface.

The initial search area spans a 2,000-square-mile (5,180-square-kilometer) area of the Atlantic, said U.S. Air Force Col. Willie Berges, commander of the American military forces supporting the search operation.

The ship was to use a grid pattern search after receiving instructions from French military officials using a nuclear submarine to search for the black boxes, Berges said. A second Dutch ship carrying another pinger locater was to arrive in the area Monday afternoon.

Thus far, there is no evidence of an explosion or terrorist act, just clues that point to systemic failures on the plane. Experts say the evidence uncovered up until now points to at least a partial midair breakup of the plane."

-- Associated Press 15 June 2009

LaoPo

[jackdanielsesq]

RSS - states that several of the bodies thus far examined have multiple bone breakages.

Indicates that craft hit the ocean possibly intact. Poor souls. RIP

BR>Jack

[LaoPo]

RSS - states that several of the bodies thus far examined have multiple bone breakages.

Indicates that craft hit the ocean possibly intact. Poor souls. RIP

BR>Jack

Not necessarily; the plane could have broken into pieces at high altitude whereby passengers would have fallen to the ocean surface causing multiple bone breakages at impact.

In the previous message it said: "Experts say the evidence uncovered up until now points to at least a partial midair breakup of the plane." So far there is no indication that the plane hit the ocean intact.

We simply don't know, apart from the fact that the found bodies had no water in their lunges and thus didn't drown.

LaoPo

Edit:

I might add:

"

Latest Analysis of the Evidence:

* Autopsies on the bodies being examined reveal multiple fractures of passengers' legs, hips and arms. The evidence indicates the plane may have come part in the air as opposed to breaking apart when it hit the water.

* Large pieces of the plane collected also indicate a mid-air break up.

* Experts also say bodies are not burned, which suggests there was not an explosion. But they also say that while the bodies may provide clues, it's unlikely they will indicate the probable cause of the crash on their own.

Source: http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/International...4138&page=1

and:

AF447 injuries suggest midair breakup

Thursday, 18 June 2009 13:09

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0618/airfrance.html

LaoPo

Edited June 18, 2009 by LaoPo

[isanb]

RSS - states that several of the bodies thus far examined have multiple bone breakages.

Indicates that craft hit the ocean possibly intact. Poor souls. RIP

BR>Jack

Jake try to jump in the water from 11 000 meters if you don't have multiple bone breakages when you hit the water then i have to guess that you are a squid

[jackdanielsesq]

Yeah - I guess - with words like partial and possibly, the next pièce de résistance will be the if-come-maybe routine.

I simply hope that there is no attempt at coverup - any of us could be next.

The Paris Airshow ended on a somber note - apparently the Qatar GM hollering at Boeing about late delivery on the +10 x 787.

He was the same one who was heralded for ordering the new A330 - which looked to be in real bad taste.

My gut tells me the A380 will go out of production, real soon. It is now looking at +50 year recapture.

BR>Jack

[isanb]

I simply hope that there is no attempt at coverup - any of us could be next.

BR>Jack

Can not happen to you jack, you told us many many times that you don't fly airbus (assuming that you can make the difference between airbus and boeing )

More seriously, to many people are now involve in the investigation a coverup seems improbable.

[jackdanielsesq]

There has been some argy-bargy - the French BEA representative was mouthingoff as he was not allowed into the secure area were the Brazilians were handling the autopsies - it would appear that his credentials had been delayed somewhere between France & Brazil.

Methinks they had wizened up to the Paris Airshow sleight-of-blackbox that suddenly blamed the wreck on PE. It was discovered that same had indeed been switched after the fact. Dirty pool.

It would appear that all the autopsies have been completed - must make for some interesting reading - wonder what the holdup is?!

BR>Jack

Anyone?!

[isanb]

There has been some argy-bargy - the French BEA representative was mouthingoff as he was not allowed into the secure area were the Brazilians were handling the autopsies - it would appear that his credentials had been delayed somewhere between France & Brazil.

Methinks they had wizened up to the Paris Airshow sleight-of-blackbox that suddenly blamed the wreck on PE. It was discovered that same had indeed been switched after the fact. Dirty pool.

It would appear that all the autopsies have been completed - must make for some interesting reading - wonder what the holdup is?!

BR>Jack

Anyone?!

Not the french BEA representative but a doctor send by the BEA to help handling the autopsies and it was because he didn't ask for the french embassy acreditation first before going to Recife, no holdup there jack (by the way they have send already 4 french doctor there).

[jackdanielsesq]

Whatever - its the BEA part that is being called into question. Presumed he was a quack, or rather weird.

BR>Jack

[jackdanielsesq]

At least its a start

BR>Jack

Air France chief Pierre-Henri Gourgeon said a first payment of 17,500 euros ($24,000, £14,800) would be made for each victim.

The cause of the crash is unknown and flight recorders have not been found.

The so-called "black boxes" record flight data and conversations in the cockpit.

[churchill]

Le Monde: French naval vessels had picked up a weak signal; a mini submarine had been dispatched to try and find the black boxes.

From Fox News -

SAO PAULO — French military ships have detected signals from the black boxes of Flight 447 in the Atlantic depths, French newspaper Le Monde reported on Tuesday.

The report says a research mini-submarine, the Nautile, dove Monday to search for the boxes based on a "very weak signal" from the flight recorders picked up by the French ships.

The report on Le Monde's Web site Tuesday gives no source or other details.

Officials with the French military and the French marine institute that operates the mini-sub, and French air accident investigators, could not immediately reached for comment.

The plane fell into the Atlantic on May 31 en route from Rio de Janeiro to Paris. All 228 people aboard were killed. The black boxes will only continue to emit signals until the end of this month.

Click here for photos.

The "black boxes" may contain vital information that could help explain what happened when the Airbus A330 aircraft crashed into the sea en route from Rio de Janeiro to Paris on June 1.

Locator beacons, known as "pingers", on the flight recorders send an electronic impulse every second for at least 30 days. The signal can be heard up to 2 km (1.2 miles) away.

French vessels involved in the search operation include a nuclear submarine with advanced sonar equipment and a research ship equipped with mini submarines.

The remote location in the Atlantic as well as the depth and surface of the ocean floor have made the search especially difficult and the wreckage could lie anywhere between a depth of 1 km (0.6 miles) and 4 km (2.5 miles).

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,528340,00.html

[churchill]

AP: A French official says sounds detected by search teams in the Atlantic depths are not those of Flight 447's black boxes.

[Datsun240Z]

Watch THIS vid !

[jackdanielsesq]

Correct - there was some bogus post about them being located - must be real tough on the families. Thanks.

BR>Jack

[jackdanielsesq]

Chief Pilot's body identified .... more

BR>Jack