Easiest To Bring Into Th? Iphone Vs. Blackberry Vs. Symbian/nokia Vs. Windows Mobile?

[lsemprini]

Hi,

Here is a very specific question about bringing home smartphones to Thailand, not a general debate about platforms, so please read carefully and help us stay on-topic...

I would like to write some smartphone application software that is primarily targeted at foreign tourists visiting Thailand for short stays. So most of the potential customers will be bringing their own smartphone device from their home country.

I have to decide which platform(s) to target (since each platform requires months of separate development work):

• Windows Mobile
  
• iPhone
  
• BlackBerry
  
• Symbian/Nokia smartphones
  

There are many factors that affect that decision, but the factor I am considering in this post is:

Which platform offers the least barrier to a tourist bringing a smartphone purchased in his/her home country and using it in Thailand?

The thought is that someone is more likely to purchase smartphone applications on a platform where they can also use their smartphone as a phone when they bring it to Thailand.

The kinds of barriers I have in mind are these (and perhaps others that TV folks can tell me about):

• 1. Some smartphones just let you buy a Thai SIM and put it in, no troubles at all: no barrier.
  
• 2. Some smartphones are locked to the home-country carrier. That means if you put a Thai SIM in, they will not work. You are then faced with these choices:
  
  • 2a. Some smartphones support "roaming" using the home-country SIM in Thailand. Those roaming charges may be:
    
    • 2a1. reasonable, or
      
    • 2a2. extortionate to the point of making the smartphone essentially useless as a phone in Thailand
      

    [*]2b. Some smartphones can be "hacked" to work with a Thai SIM. That hacking process may:

    • 2b1. be easy and fairly harmless (so most potential customers would do it), or
      
    • 2b2. require your phone to have some scary warranty-violating surgery done by a guy with a soldering iron at Mah Boon Krong (i.e. the kind of thing that would deter most potential customers from doing it).
      

  [*]3. some smartphones cannot be used in Thailand at all, because there is no roaming and the SIM is not physically replaceable at all.

With limited research so far, I am starting to gather that:

• most Windows Mobile phones fall into category 1 (no barrier: pop in your desired SIM),
  
• the iPhone forces you to choose 2a2 (pay huge roaming) or 2b2 (hack your phone, but then it can no longer receive Apple OS updates: true?)
  
• the BlackBerry forces you to choose 2a2 (pay huge roaming) and there is no hack to unlock it (true?)
  
• what about Nokia/Symbian smartphones?
  

Please help correct and fill in the details based on your experiences. Of course the answer sometimes depends on the tourist's home country and carrier, but based on the different responses, I'm hoping we can establish a pattern.

Again, I am not asking for a general discussion (flamewar) about the merits of each platform, and I am not asking about smartphones purchased in Thailand: I am only asking about the barriers to bringing a foreign-purchased smartphone into Thailand and using it as a phone here.

I know people are passionate about their favorite platform, but please help keep the post on-topic!

Thanks!

[TheLaughingMan]

I only know that for the Iphone it is fairly simple to unlock and if you unlock it, it is unlocked for the whole world not just Thailand. If you google unlock iphone you can download a free program that unlocks the iphone for you with just a couple of clicks. Alot of tourists will probably already have thier iphone unlocked when they get here as many of them want to choose different phone company plans then the one they try to force on them in their home country.

[Gary A]

Phones with no SIM cards are normally CDMA and I doubt if you can get CDMA service from Hutch or CAT unless you buy the phone from them. I know CAT wouldn't give me service.

I think you would be better off with a Nokia GSM smart phone. Nokia is very popular in Thailand.

[thunder30101]

What barriers are you thinking of ? You can bring any phone you want into thailand no import restrictions on them unless you are bringing in a suitcase full. Most people buy a cheap phone and card here so when they lose it they are not out much, I mean 25 bucks us for phone and sim why bring an expensive one ? And services to run a smartphone or whatever you want to call it are lacking here.

[lsemprini]

What barriers are you thinking of ? You can bring any phone you want into thailand no import restrictions on them unless you are bringing in a suitcase full. Most people buy a cheap phone and card here so when they lose it they are not out much, I mean 25 bucks us for phone and sim why bring an expensive one ? And services to run a smartphone or whatever you want to call it are lacking here.

Hi,

See the list in the OP -- it's not customs barriers I'm asking about, but rather the (artificial) technical restrictions put on by the mobile carriers in the home country that keep you from using the phone in Thailand. My goal is to find the platform that's least likely to have those restrictions, because that's the best target for the tourist-oriented smartphone software that I want to write. I know that people often buy cheap temporary non-smart phones when traveling to Thailand, but that's not relevant to my question (see the OP).

Generally if people are able to bring their smartphone to Thailand and make ordinary calls with it, then they don't need any extra special "services" in order to use software applications that they have purchased and installed on the phone. So the main barrier of concern is anything that would prevent them from making ordinary calls with their phone in Thailand.

[lsemprini]

Phones with no SIM cards are normally CDMA and I doubt if you can get CDMA service from Hutch or CAT unless you buy the phone from them. I know CAT wouldn't give me service.

I think you would be better off with a Nokia GSM smart phone. Nokia is very popular in Thailand.

Well I'm trying to choose a platform for which to write software, not choose a phone to buy (see the OP), but you raise a relevant point anyway: the phone must support GSM in a band used in Thailand.

Are there really any smartphones that don't support GSM in at least one of the bands used by Thai carriers?

• It's my understanding that all BlackBerries (even US ones) can do both CDMA and GSM, is that right? The blackberry website includes 850MHz and 1800MHz GSM which I think are used by various Thai carriers.
  
• Apple's iPhone tech specs imply that all iPhones do both CDMA and GSM at a wide range of bands.
  
• Do most Windows Mobile smartphones support GSM even if they are sold in the US?
  
• The Symbian/Nokia market is mostly outside the US, so they're likely to support GSM for the home country anyway.
  

[Carmine6]

Nokia first choice, then Windows. Blackberry and Iphone if you get good sales on the first 2 platforms.

Play the odds. Nokia probably represents the largest base of unlocked smart phones that tourists in Thailand have. There are more tourists from Asia, Europe, and Australia than from North America. Symbian has been around for years, although not sure how easy it is to adapt for the different versions. It's still the dominant smart phone OS in the world, and even more so excluding the US.

With Blackberries and iphones, you're dealing with a large percentage that are basically locked so they can not install apps (lots of Blackberries on BES) or can't use foreign SIMs. The average American/Canadian tourist isn't going to have an unlocked smart phone. And at less than 6% of the foreign visitors, not even a large share of the potential market. Japanese and Korean visitors are each more than 6% of the total.

[CosmicSurfer]

Don't forget the new PALM WebOS... The new "Palm Pre" will be released on GSM soon, and is already being touted as the Next Best thing... a possible iPhone Killer. It is being introduced as a CDMA phone in USA first, (next week I think) with GSM to follow.

The SDK is already available from Palm, and as you say the applications will take months to develop, then the phone may be released in GSM form by then also.

As a new phone, you will have less compition in the applications market place.

Also iPhone has HUGE barriers protecting the sale and distribution of Apple approved/produced applications. WebOS is open source and open to development by anyone.

Windows has had major performance problem, and has lost tons of market share to iPhone already. The new Google O/S has yet to become a major player. Blackberry is big overseas, but less common here in Thailand.

My money is on Palm to capture a big market share, and their GSM will operate in all countries. Remember they were the First Big Player, and they know the smart phone Application Market best.. And the new Pre is garnering fantastic reviews... They've learned a lot from their Treo mistakes.

Nokia, has the most Market share in Mobiles, but hasn't made any major dent in the "SmartPhone" catagory... and Synbian is an old and clunky O/S.

A Pre for Me

CS

[lsemprini]

Nokia first choice, then Windows. Blackberry and Iphone if you get good sales on the first 2 platforms.

Play the odds. Nokia probably represents the largest base of unlocked smart phones that tourists in Thailand have. There are more tourists from Asia, Europe, and Australia than from North America. Symbian has been around for years, although not sure how easy it is to adapt for the different versions. It's still the dominant smart phone OS in the world, and even more so excluding the US.

With Blackberries and iphones, you're dealing with a large percentage that are basically locked so they can not install apps (lots of Blackberries on BES) or can't use foreign SIMs. The average American/Canadian tourist isn't going to have an unlocked smart phone. And at less than 6% of the foreign visitors, not even a large share of the potential market. Japanese and Korean visitors are each more than 6% of the total.

Very interesting, thanks!

You mention that there are a lot of unlocked Nokia smartphones: is that because they generally come unlocked from the manufacturer/carrier, or because unlocking is easy and most smartphone owners choose to do it?

Symbian puts up another unique barrier for the software developer (not the phone customer): they have an insanely expensive and complex process by which you must have your app digitally signed by both Symbian (minumum USD 200, but typically thousands of USD if you want to access more than just primitive phone capabilities) AND by each individual carrier all across the world (=$$$$) in order to even be able to install on a customer phone. It absolutely astounds me that Symbian is the leader when they make it that hard to write applications.

However, there is a back-door IF the phone manufacturer allows it: one can also ship self-signed applications, which, when installed on the customer phone, make a scary message pop up about "untrusted code: are you sure you want to install?" In your experience using Nokia smartphones, is that the path that app developers really take? That is, when you buy and install an app for Nokia smartphones, do you generally have to click past a scary message to activate the application? With Symbian, the device manufacturer has the right to totally disable the ability to install self-signed applications; I'm curious if Nokia has taken this path or not on most of their smartphones.

Thanks!

[jackdanielsesq]

You are over thinking the problem.

Any GSM/SIM card fone will work anywhere as you will not be roaming, unless exceedingly stupid. There is no lock.

iPhone3G 16G would be my choice as it has the best platform - I use one.. M$ is the worst.

Jailbreaking is simple, if ever required for say AT&T roaming.

Symbian/UIQ are a joke, drop them. Nokia lost the plot a year back, so did SE. I have all of them. Useless.

BR>Jack

[endure]

Any UK mobile customer will have it locked to the network provider (apart from O2***) because the cost of the phone is significantly subsidised. It doesn't matter what platform the phone is as the subsidy applies to all phones.

*** O2 usually supply standard unlocked GSM phone with a separate SIM. All the other providers supply locked phone.

[lsemprini]

Any UK mobile customer will have it locked to the network provider ... because the cost of the phone is significantly subsidised. It doesn't matter what platform the phone is as the subsidy applies to all phones.

How hard is it to unlock the phone, for the platforms you are familiar with?

Do smartphone owners typically unlock their phone after purchase?

Thanks!