Why Are Thais Such Litterbugs?

[jumnien]

The simple truth is that the Thai lifestyle produces far less trash than the western lifestyle on a per capita basis. We should be emulating them, not insisting the follow in our fat footsteps!

[Soutpeel]

The simple truth is that the Thai lifestyle produces far less trash than the western lifestyle on a per capita basis. We should be emulating them, not insisting the follow in our fat footsteps!

Bollex.....In Thailand, McDonalds, Starbucks etc etc, Thais are lapping this sh*t up

[jumnien]

The simple truth is that the Thai lifestyle produces far less trash than the western lifestyle on a per capita basis. We should be emulating them, not insisting the follow in our fat footsteps!

Bollex.....In Thailand, McDonalds, Starbucks etc etc, Thais are lapping this sh*t up

Check out per capita consumption of coffee at Starbucks in Thailand vs any country in the West and you will be shocked. Same for per capita consumption of McDonalds. If we in the West would litter a bit more and consume a lot less, Mother Earth would be quite pleased!

[bonobo]

The carbon footprint is far greater in the West than in Thailand. Waste creation is far higher in the west than in Thailand. The Western lifestyle consumes far more non-renewable resources than Thailand. Western streets are less littered. Big <deleted>' deal. The planets dying fellas and all you can do is complain that poor people are littering....

I agree the west's carbon footprint is obscene - and the west spins their credentials all the time - the excessive use of electricity in melbourne, New York etc is scandalous - the city slickers say their electric trains are non-polluting - but go check out a coal-fired power station where the electricity actually comes from!!

The West spent a long time building up economies when the dangers of pollution were not realized. Now, they are, and while carbon footrpints are still higher than in most of the rest of teh world, they are dropping each and every year on both a per capita and real basis. China and India, on the other hand, are seeing theirs skyrocket, and China is a major source of the world's pollution.

But to point to the west and use that to ignore any problem in Thailand or anywhere else is really pretty silly. This forum is about Thailand, and so topics about air pollution, water pollution, littering and such are valid. And to "point a finger" does not negate any problem in the west.

Edited June 4, 2009 by bonobo

[huggybear]

The thrust of my post was that the OP was taking a swipe at Thais,

Absolutely not my intention and those words put in my mouth are not appreciated

[simonphuket]

- we all need to stop saying one country is better or worse than another but instead rejoice in the differences - life is too short to continue to find fault every where you look.

I just feel the need to pick flowers, put them in my hair and give everybody a big hug.... The world is beautiful and I luv everyone in it.

Bollex.....In Thailand, McDonalds, Starbucks etc etc, Thais are lapping this sh*t up

Agree!

Yes, they consume less than us (still, but are catching up), but relatively create a lot more mess than the west.

[kudroz]

The simple truth is that the Thai lifestyle produces far less trash than the western lifestyle on a per capita basis. We should be emulating them, not insisting the follow in our fat footsteps!

Thank you for pointing the obvious there Sherlock! Of course a developed nation will produce more trash than a bunch of baboons living in the jungle. We're not talking who's producing more trash per capita -- we're talking about littering, cleanliness and manners. In the West we sure produce more trash, but we're not as primitive as the Thais and we actually have a waste management system that is far more efficient. We fine litterers and have cleanliness standards that are enforced.

[Oberkommando]

Thais like to eat and they aren't ashamed of crapping. They use the words all the time very casually, "i've got to shit, did you shit?" Whereas in the west, we are ashamed of it, we can't even use the words on internet forums.

Thais consume and the waste products of their consumption are tossed about rather habitually, they see no great sin. Whereas, in the west, we consume voraciously, creating mounds of waste, but we think it's ok because we hide it. Our pollution footprint is far greater than Thais, and yet we hide behind our pride that in Aspen or Lyon you won't see the waste on the streets that you do in Thailand. We think of ourselves as more environmentally conscious at the same time as we consciously destroy the environment at a much faster pace.

Bangkok - Bangkok residents in 2007 produced as much carbon dioxide as New Yorkers and surpassed Londoners' emissions by 1.2 tons per capita, a United Nations-sponsored report revealed Wednesday. Residents in Bangkok and New York each emitted 7.1 tons of the greenhouse gas in 2007 while London residents emitted 5.9 tons, according to a report compiled by the Bangkok government and the Green Leaf Foundation, a Bangkok-based environmental group, with support from the United Nations.

Bangkok residents leave New York-sized carbon footprint

[jumnien]

The simple truth is that the Thai lifestyle produces far less trash than the western lifestyle on a per capita basis. We should be emulating them, not insisting the follow in our fat footsteps!

Thank you for pointing the obvious there Sherlock! Of course a developed nation will produce more trash than a bunch of baboons living in the jungle. We're not talking who's producing more trash per capita -- we're talking about littering, cleanliness and manners. In the West we sure produce more trash, but we're not as primitive as the Thais and we actually have a waste management system that is far more efficient. We fine litterers and have cleanliness standards that are enforced.

And all I'm saying is how detrimental these cleanliness standards are to the environment as they serve our denial rather than serve our future.

[kudroz]

The simple truth is that the Thai lifestyle produces far less trash than the western lifestyle on a per capita basis. We should be emulating them, not insisting the follow in our fat footsteps!

Thank you for pointing the obvious there Sherlock! Of course a developed nation will produce more trash than a bunch of baboons living in the jungle. We're not talking who's producing more trash per capita -- we're talking about littering, cleanliness and manners. In the West we sure produce more trash, but we're not as primitive as the Thais and we actually have a waste management system that is far more efficient. We fine litterers and have cleanliness standards that are enforced.

And all I'm saying is how detrimental these cleanliness standards are to the environment as they serve our denial rather than serve our future.

Okay so what is it that you're saying? That we should adopt Thai ways and litter because it will save the environment?

You're not making sense and have add very little value to this discussion.

[njpski]

The simple truth is that the Thai lifestyle produces far less trash than the western lifestyle on a per capita basis. We should be emulating them, not insisting the follow in our fat footsteps!

Bollex.....In Thailand, McDonalds, Starbucks etc etc, Thais are lapping this sh*t up

McDonalds & Starbucks - are introduced species.

Like cane toads, rabbits and foxes in Australia, they are noxious introduced products that should be eliminated - the coconut shells and banana leaves are biodegradable unlike a lot of the packaging even of coffee

[Soutpeel]

The simple truth is that the Thai lifestyle produces far less trash than the western lifestyle on a per capita basis. We should be emulating them, not insisting the follow in our fat footsteps!

Bollex.....In Thailand, McDonalds, Starbucks etc etc, Thais are lapping this sh*t up

McDonalds & Starbucks - are introduced species.

Like cane toads, rabbits and foxes in Australia, they are noxious introduced products that should be eliminated - the coconut shells and banana leaves are biodegradable unlike a lot of the packaging even of coffee

Interesting concept.....Starbucks coffee in a coconut shell, McD's in a banana leaf....you might be onto to something...

[simonphuket]

The simple truth is that the Thai lifestyle produces far less trash than the western lifestyle on a per capita basis. We should be emulating them, not insisting the follow in our fat footsteps!

Bollex.....In Thailand, McDonalds, Starbucks etc etc, Thais are lapping this sh*t up

McDonalds & Starbucks - are introduced species.

Like cane toads, rabbits and foxes in Australia, they are noxious introduced products that should be eliminated - the coconut shells and banana leaves are biodegradable unlike a lot of the packaging even of coffee

Interesting concept.....Starbucks coffee in a coconut shell, McD's in a banana leaf....you might be onto to something...

or just even a take-away Tom-yum in a coconut shell, to stay with the local food. Man, for everything you get a plastic bag.

[jumnien]

The simple truth is that the Thai lifestyle produces far less trash than the western lifestyle on a per capita basis. We should be emulating them, not insisting the follow in our fat footsteps!

Thank you for pointing the obvious there Sherlock! Of course a developed nation will produce more trash than a bunch of baboons living in the jungle. We're not talking who's producing more trash per capita -- we're talking about littering, cleanliness and manners. In the West we sure produce more trash, but we're not as primitive as the Thais and we actually have a waste management system that is far more efficient. We fine litterers and have cleanliness standards that are enforced.

And all I'm saying is how detrimental these cleanliness standards are to the environment as they serve our denial rather than serve our future.

Okay so what is it that you're saying? That we should adopt Thai ways and litter because it will save the environment?

You're not making sense and have add very little value to this discussion.

Exactly! I believe that if every American family threw their trash out into their front lawn for one month, it would break their denial and strengthen their character. People need to become more aware of the resources they use, not less aware.

[huggybear]

Interesting thread going in the Bangkok Forum of foreigners being fined for littering............

[Fishenough]

The west, as you say, just has more infrastructure in place to keep commonly traveled (parks, residential areas, all primary and secondary routes) areas free of any ugly mess.

Years of hiking and back country exploring though out North America quickly shows; trash left in even the most remote and hard to locations, larger deposits of garage are mostly placed out of sight (out of mind- and very commonly illegally) leaving the well traveled areas clean and with nice appearance (maybe even a minty after taste). Once your off the safe and easy routes this trashing nature, refuse chucking, is just a very bad habit of mankind anywhere.

What's the deal though with so much trash around a wat? the first precepts of a monk is to refrain from the killing of living things.

[kudroz]

Exactly! I believe that if every American family threw their trash out into their front lawn for one month, it would break their denial and strengthen their character. People need to become more aware of the resources they use, not less aware.

I'm all for awareness and get our planet green. I think awareness will grow and we will reduce our pollution footprint because of economic incentives, not by encouraging the west to litter like Thais do. I think you missed the point of the discussion which is to discuss why Thais are litterbugs.

Edited June 4, 2009 by kudroz

[njpski]

Quote

Exactly! I believe that if every American family threw their trash out into their front lawn for one month, it would break their denial and strengthen their character. People need to become more aware of the resources they use, not less aware.

If all the packaging, food scraps, newspapers, wine bottles, dog excrement, etc, were to be left on the front lawns for a month - we would all be horrified

[jumnien]

Exactly! I believe that if every American family threw their trash out into their front lawn for one month, it would break their denial and strengthen their character. People need to become more aware of the resources they use, not less aware.

I'm all for awareness and get our planet green. I think awareness will grow and we will reduce our pollution footprint because with economic incentives, not by encouraging the west to litter like Thais do. I think you missed the point of the discussion which is to discuss why Thais are litterbugs.

I think I alluded to it in my initial post. I think Thais do not see littering as a sin or as disgusting; a bit of litter does not tend to get them writing in to internet forums. Don't get me wrong. I'd rather they didn't litter. But I'd rather see them litter than to follow in the West's footsteps of denial and destruction.

[patklang]

The same problem is in the UK.When i went home for a holiday,me and a mate was walking down the road and a car went by and threw a huge pile of rubbish out,nearly hitting me.As i was shouting at them,my mate said its a new craze to throw rubbish at some body walking past.Next time my new craze will be throwing big hard objects at cars that thro rubbish at ME.

[loong]

The carbon footprint is far greater in the West than in Thailand. Waste creation is far higher in the west than in Thailand. The Western lifestyle consumes far more non-renewable resources than Thailand. Western streets are less littered. Big <deleted>' deal. The planets dying fellas and all you can do is complain that poor people are littering....

I'm amazed at the cars these poor people are able to drive

I can't find the source now, but i did read that Bangkok and Chiang Mai are amongst the most polluted cities in the world.

Besides the official figures you only have to use your eyes and your nose. If you live in the boonies amongst the poorer folk you will see many people cooking over wood fires every day, not only that, they use rubber and plastic to get the fires burning. There are 10's of millions of these fires every day causing pollution. Are these fires included in any statistics? I very much doubt it.

A lot of charcoal is used in Thailand. A lot is produced near me. There are kilns that produce charcoal more efficiently and with a lot less pollution, but around here it is done the old fashioned way. Does the pollution from charcoal production get included in the statistics?

When it's time to cut the sugarcane around here, you can see the black plumes of smoke all around as they burn the crop before harvesting. When they burn within about 5 km of me, the air is full of smuts and acrid.

After harvesting the rice, what do they do - burn the stubble.

This thread is about litter, so it's wandered off topic somewhat.

When I go to the local shop I will take a used carrier bag with me, the locals think it strange, but the shopkeeper would be happy if everyone did the same.

Thai people don't seem to like to see litter, but it seems that many can't be bothered to dispose of their rubbish with any thought. Especially if they are littering somebody else's neighbourhood.

You can hardly walk in this village without stepping on rubbish, but a lot of it is distributed by dogs rummaging in people's bins.

[Lancelot]

I think it is part cultural, part practical.

The practical is an issue, too. There simply are not many trash receptacles around. Near my condo, cars would slow down, then toss bags of garbage out the window onto the side of the road. It got so bad that they had to erect a fence to stop it.

Hey Mr. B. I used to live in Bangkok near Victory Monument. There was a nice park in the area between Soi Rang Nam and another major road (forgot the name.) There were many trash cans and guess what, the Thais used them. There actually seemed to be a real sense of civic pride and the public really took care of the place. I voted that the Thais don't care about litter, but I believe that they know it is not correct to do so. I have seen first hand that they can put litter in the trash can--when they want to.

[jumnien]

Excellent post, loong. A lot of wisdom.

[BigSnake]

I"ll go with the cheap labor thing, cousin or uncle needs the work, who knows.(?)

[sanook2me]

When I go to the local shop I will take a used carrier bag with me, the locals think it strange, but the shopkeeper would be happy if everyone did the same.

In my local Daily Mart there is a sign with a plastic bag crossed out and something along the lines of Daily Mart promotes using less bags.

Guess what...

Yesterday items purchased. 1 yoghurt 2 x bottles of water = 3 bags !

Double bagging for the water and a little bag for the yoghurt...

Sometimes i snatch the items from the desk after they've scanned them so they can't bag them..but of course then I am a funny farang who also gives them the receipt back that they slide between the notes and change they give me

[TheWalkingMan]

I think that the Thais litter because no one ever taught them any different. I think that it is shameful for any people to be so lazy that they cannot hang on to their trash until they get home or pass by a receptacle. It looks like and I am not it is, but it looks like people have no civic pride in their surroundings. It reminds of driving through some of the ghetto areas in the States. Trash everywhere and no body cares.

[longball53098]

Not littering is a learned habit and it would or will take more than a generation to change the habit they now have.

I am in my sixties. When I was a young pup in the US littering was just as big an issue in the 50's and early 60's. In those days there were no plastics per se but paper and other sh*t was a problem and there was no such thing as bio-degradable.

The US then started a campaign to vigorously teach people to not litter. It started in many facets but it was education mainly. It became fashionable to sport litter bags and point fingers at the litterbugs and shame them into going along.Teachers in schools brainwashed the kids and the kids fell in line. They went home and pestered the crap out of the parents. It all took time and money. Advertising and whatever. Now 50 plus years later when we see someone throwing out the trash we all shutter. It could happen here but they have to educate "all" Thais and make it a status thing to keep up with the other Somchai in the next house or car. It took centuries to learn to live the way they do now and maybe it will take 50 or so more years to un-learn their bad habits

[Birdman]

The west, as you say, just has more infrastructure in place to keep commonly traveled (parks, residential areas, all primary and secondary routes) areas free of any ugly mess.

Years of hiking and back country exploring though out North America quickly shows; trash left in even the most remote and hard to locations, larger deposits of garage are mostly placed out of sight (out of mind- and very commonly illegally) leaving the well traveled areas clean and with nice appearance (maybe even a minty after taste). Once your off the safe and easy routes this trashing nature, refuse chucking, is just a very bad habit of mankind anywhere.

What's the deal though with so much trash around a wat? the first precepts of a monk is to refrain from the killing of living things.

Re hiking..........in the alpine countries, Switzerland and Austria, you don't see garbage anywhere. Also Nepal handles the garbage problem exemplary.

Re OP.............most people here do not care. Education would help.

Re Thailand the worst place...............Came back once from Calcutta and thought BKK is the cleanest place on earth.

[eek]

In my local Daily Mart there is a sign with a plastic bag crossed out and something along the lines of Daily Mart promotes using less bags.

Guess what...

Yesterday items purchased. 1 yoghurt 2 x bottles of water = 3 bags !

Double bagging for the water and a little bag for the yoghurt...

Sometimes i snatch the items from the desk after they've scanned them so they can't bag them..but of course then I am a funny farang who also gives them the receipt back that they slide between the notes and change they give me

I know its not good if they are promoting using less bags but dont follow it. But, no need to snatch the things away, just tell them you dont want the bags (mai sai tung kha/krup. Or, if you are going out purposely for some shopping, take your own bag. Personally I think we should all take responsibility for small things like that, even if the staff are not.

[JR Texas]

In my local Daily Mart there is a sign with a plastic bag crossed out and something along the lines of Daily Mart promotes using less bags.

Guess what...

Yesterday items purchased. 1 yoghurt 2 x bottles of water = 3 bags !

Double bagging for the water and a little bag for the yoghurt...

Sometimes i snatch the items from the desk after they've scanned them so they can't bag them..but of course then I am a funny farang who also gives them the receipt back that they slide between the notes and change they give me

I know its not good if they are promoting using less bags but dont follow it. But, no need to snatch the things away, just tell them you dont want the bags (mai sai tung kha/krup. Or, if you are going out purposely for some shopping, take your own bag. Personally I think we should all take responsibility for small things like that, even if the staff are not.

They litter because they are not taught not to litter......same with picking their noses.........driving like maniacs...........lying and cheating and thinking it is fine..........etc. It is a problem of education.