Central May Be About To Collapse

[tropo]

The finished (new) product looks superb,but its all hot air and mirrors,held together by chewing gum.Another good reason for not buying,ten years on all you will have is a pile of dust around your ankles.

You exaggerate far too much in an effort to prove your point. I live in an average 4 level Thai apartment building and haven't seen anything crack or fall off it in the 4 years I've been there. Perhaps it will fall to dust all in the 10th year. I better keep a close eye on it as it must be close to 10 years old already.

[mackayae]

Reminds me of a rumor from a few years back. The Charoensi Mall in Udon did a major expansion by adding a fifth floor with bowling alley, cineplex, restaurant. Before opening, a rumor circulated that a prominent abbot from a nearby wat had had a prediction of a major tragedy with the collapse of this building. Around the time of the opening staff distributed flyers stating that the building was safe and it had been inspected and certified by the authorities.

[NanLaew]

^ Now that has opened up a can of worms.

The Charoensri complex referred to above was recently purchased from the family that developed and built it by...

The Central group of companies!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CentralPlaza_Udon_Thani

Is there going to be a trend here?

(That's a trend of retired architectural and construction experts with an Isaan branch?)

[bunta71]

Been doing a little X-mas shopping in Central the last couple weeks and definately felt lots of shuddering and movement while eating ice cream on the 4th floor. I have epilepsy and am quite "qualified" to know quivers

[tropo]

Been doing a little X-mas shopping in Central the last couple weeks and definately felt lots of shuddering and movement while eating ice cream on the 4th floor. I have epilepsy and am quite "qualified" to know quivers

Joking?

I've never felt any sudders or movement in Central and I've been there hundreds of times.

[trogers]

Been doing a little X-mas shopping in Central the last couple weeks and definately felt lots of shuddering and movement while eating ice cream on the 4th floor. I have epilepsy and am quite "qualified" to know quivers

Joking?

I've never felt any sudders or movement in Central and I've been there hundreds of times.

He ordered 'Earthquake' from Swensen!

[kicking]

Been doing a little X-mas shopping in Central the last couple weeks and definately felt lots of shuddering and movement while eating ice cream on the 4th floor. I have epilepsy and am quite "qualified" to know quivers

Joking?

I've never felt any sudders or movement in Central and I've been there hundreds of times.

No, there is definitely shudder on the upper floors right by the escalators closest to 2nd Rd. And no, I don't think the building is about to collapse...

[tropo]

No, there is definitely shudder on the upper floors right by the escalators closest to 2nd Rd. And no, I don't think the building is about to collapse...

Definitely not anytime I've been there. Perhaps your nerve endings are super sensitive and you've felt some vibrations from the new 3D ride they have inside the cinema complex.

[kicking]

No, there is definitely shudder on the upper floors right by the escalators closest to 2nd Rd. And no, I don't think the building is about to collapse...

Definitely not anytime I've been there. Perhaps your nerve endings are super sensitive and you've felt some vibrations from the new 3D ride they have inside the cinema complex.

Stand on the crosswalk by those escalators on the upper floors, you'll feel it...

[Changian]

Been doing a little X-mas shopping in Central the last couple weeks and definately felt lots of shuddering and movement while eating ice cream on the 4th floor.

I think a few people would like to know what you ordered .

Another t-shirt idea: 'The Earth Moved For Me at Central Festival'

[ralston3057]

No, there is definitely shudder on the upper floors right by the escalators closest to 2nd Rd. And no, I don't think the building is about to collapse...

Definitely not anytime I've been there. Perhaps your nerve endings are super sensitive and you've felt some vibrations from the new 3D ride they have inside the cinema complex.

Stand on the crosswalk by those escalators on the upper floors, you'll feel it...

Natural response for lightly constructed floor slabs. Vibrations in commercial structures are typical (especially floor vibrations as their frequency is small). They have a pretty small out of plane stiffness. So, they vibrate. The load comes from people When a forcing function such as foot traffic gets close to the frequency of floor, its vibrations will increase (resonance). Actually, resonance could be catastrophic but in any case, vibrating floors are VERY TYPICAL and the norm. Think of how much more money the construction costs would be if they tried to stiffen up the floor. Also, the engineers would not get the next job if they over design the structure. It always comes down to $$$$ That is my 2 cents

[johng]

Vibrations in commercial structures are typical (especially floor vibrations as their frequency is small). They have a pretty small out of plane stiffness. So, they vibrate. The load comes from people

And maybe from the ongoing construction of the 30 storey hotel above ????

I posted before in this thread that I was sat in a restaraunt in this mall and could feel the place shudder..the light fixtures where swaying ( they are long pendulum fixtures suspended from the ceiling )

and the plate glass shop front was flexing too..this was no joke or exaggeration.

[trogers]

And maybe from the ongoing construction of the 30 storey hotel above ????

I posted before in this thread that I was sat in a restaraunt in this mall and could feel the place shudder..the light fixtures where swaying ( they are long pendulum fixtures suspended from the ceiling )

and the plate glass shop front was flexing too..this was no joke or exaggeration.

I will get worried if the hotel structure is to be 30-storey.

The shopping mall below is built with widely spaced columns. But the hotel above would be either closely spaced and smaller columns or with some cross structural walls. This will make the hotel structure stiffer than that of the shopping mall.

And we know how a stiff and heavy structure behaves sitting on stilts - a precarious balancing act.

[andyww]

Noticed that the brackets have now been boxed-in, to hide them. Only a small number of pillars seem to have been affected, something like a 2 x 8 rectangle.

Wandering around this mall though, noticed that the overall quality of the finish and detailing is terrible. Just all looks shoddy. This is not normal for malls of this type in Thailand, most of which are very smart, for example Royal Garden Plaza is much better, as are BKK malls such as Seacon Square, Central Lad Prao etc.

[trogers]

Noticed that the brackets have now been boxed-in, to hide them. Only a small number of pillars seem to have been affected, something like a 2 x 8 rectangle.

Wandering around this mall though, noticed that the overall quality of the finish and detailing is terrible. Just all looks shoddy. This is not normal for malls of this type in Thailand, most of which are very smart, for example Royal Garden Plaza is much better, as are BKK malls such as Seacon Square, Central Lad Prao etc.

The examples of good shopping malls you have mentioned were designed from ground up as malls, from basement to roof.

This particular mall that is laid out badly have to be designed around the constraints imposed by the structure of the hotel above.

[tropo]

Noticed that the brackets have now been boxed-in, to hide them. Only a small number of pillars seem to have been affected, something like a 2 x 8 rectangle.

Wandering around this mall though, noticed that the overall quality of the finish and detailing is terrible. Just all looks shoddy. This is not normal for malls of this type in Thailand, most of which are very smart, for example Royal Garden Plaza is much better, as are BKK malls such as Seacon Square, Central Lad Prao etc.

The examples of good shopping malls you have mentioned were designed from ground up as malls, from basement to roof.

This particular mall that is laid out badly have to be designed around the constraints imposed by the structure of the hotel above.

Could you please enlighten us as to how the layout of Central is inferior to the layout of Royal Garden Plaza?

Are people complaining about how the escalators force people to walk across floors perhaps? I think the layout is as good as you could expect in a multi-level shopping mall.

How does the hotel which is built above the car park contrain the layout of the shopping mall? How has Central not been designed from the ground up?

Edited December 25, 2009 by tropo

[Spalpeen]

The situation where the lower part of a building (the mall) is open to the public while the upper part (the hotel) is still under construction is unusual, though not a cause for concern. Normally the public don't get anywhere near a building until it's finished

Reinforced concrete structures are surprisingly flexible when they are first put up. It's only when the block infill walls are constructed that they get their full stiffness. It's quite possible that vibrations could be felt on the mall levels at this stage, but this should disappear when the hotel structure above is complete.

[tropo]

The situation where the lower part of a building (the mall) is open to the public while the upper part (the hotel) is still under construction is unusual, though not a cause for concern. Normally the public don't get anywhere near a building until it's finished

Reinforced concrete structures are surprisingly flexible when they are first put up. It's only when the block infill walls are constructed that they get their full stiffness. It's quite possible that vibrations could be felt on the mall levels at this stage, but this should disappear when the hotel structure above is complete.

If you look through the windows at the top of the shopping mall you will see blue sky. Why? Because the hotel is being constructed above the car park, not the shopping mall.

[Barack]

The situation where the lower part of a building (the mall) is open to the public while the upper part (the hotel) is still under construction is unusual, though not a cause for concern. Normally the public don't get anywhere near a building until it's finished

Reinforced concrete structures are surprisingly flexible when they are first put up. It's only when the block infill walls are constructed that they get their full stiffness. It's quite possible that vibrations could be felt on the mall levels at this stage, but this should disappear when the hotel structure above is complete.

If you look through the windows at the top of the shopping mall you will see blue sky. Why? Because the hotel is being constructed above the car park, not the shopping mall.

Oh darn, you're no know fun. Don't confuse people. Central to collapse? Could it be these posters who got their engineering degress from Wikipedia University might be wrong?

[raro]

The situation where the lower part of a building (the mall) is open to the public while the upper part (the hotel) is still under construction is unusual, though not a cause for concern. Normally the public don't get anywhere near a building until it's finished

Reinforced concrete structures are surprisingly flexible when they are first put up. It's only when the block infill walls are constructed that they get their full stiffness. It's quite possible that vibrations could be felt on the mall levels at this stage, but this should disappear when the hotel structure above is complete.

If you look through the windows at the top of the shopping mall you will see blue sky. Why? Because the hotel is being constructed above the car park, not the shopping mall.

Oh darn, you're no know fun. Don't confuse people. Central to collapse? Could it be these posters who got their engineering degress from Wikipedia University might be wrong?

wasn't the reinforcement done in the car park?

[jb4446]

I have had buildings constructed in the tropics using concrete (not Thailand) and the builders always insisted on the building remaining wet through for weeks during and after completion.Here the need or speed robs the building of the potential strength that concrete would achieve,it dries before your very eyes.Its just too weak,no wonder you see cracking and spalling so often on structures here.

[Spalpeen]

The situation where the lower part of a building (the mall) is open to the public while the upper part (the hotel) is still under construction is unusual, though not a cause for concern. Normally the public don't get anywhere near a building until it's finished

Reinforced concrete structures are surprisingly flexible when they are first put up. It's only when the block infill walls are constructed that they get their full stiffness. It's quite possible that vibrations could be felt on the mall levels at this stage, but this should disappear when the hotel structure above is complete.

If you look through the windows at the top of the shopping mall you will see blue sky. Why? Because the hotel is being constructed above the car park, not the shopping mall.

Didn't say it was directly above the mall, but the hotel section is certainly at a higher level than the mall. Since the structure is contiguous, vibrations arising in one part will be felt throughout.

Incidentally, although I don't know about specific practices on the Central Festival site, I've seen columns on other sites in Pattaya both sprayed with water and wrapped in polythene to keep in the moisture, which is exactly what's needed in a hot climate. All very commendable!

[tropo]

The situation where the lower part of a building (the mall) is open to the public while the upper part (the hotel) is still under construction is unusual, though not a cause for concern. Normally the public don't get anywhere near a building until it's finished

Reinforced concrete structures are surprisingly flexible when they are first put up. It's only when the block infill walls are constructed that they get their full stiffness. It's quite possible that vibrations could be felt on the mall levels at this stage, but this should disappear when the hotel structure above is complete.

If you look through the windows at the top of the shopping mall you will see blue sky. Why? Because the hotel is being constructed above the car park, not the shopping mall.

Didn't say it was directly above the mall, but the hotel section is certainly at a higher level than the mall. Since the structure is contiguous, vibrations arising in one part will be felt throughout.

Incidentally, although I don't know about specific practices on the Central Festival site, I've seen columns on other sites in Pattaya both sprayed with water and wrapped in polythene to keep in the moisture, which is exactly what's needed in a hot climate. All very commendable!

The important point to consider here is that the hotel is not being built above the shopping mall therefore the shopping mall does not support the weight of a hotel above. I felt it was important to mention this because as a result of discussion here it would have been easy for people to think that the shopping mall was under and part of the hotel.

[johng]

If you look through the windows at the top of the shopping mall you will see blue sky. Why? Because the hotel is being constructed above the car park, not the shopping mall.

Sorry Tropo but you're wrong !!

look at this photo.

See the green netting above the open now sign ? well thats the start of the hotel,

to the far left under the brown cladded part of the mall is the car park.

The "skylight" on the 6th floor is further back towards 2nd road so on that part of the mall there is indeed no hotel.... yet

Edited December 26, 2009 by johng

[tropo]

The "skylight" on the 6th floor is further back towards 2nd road so on that part of the mall there is indeed no hotel.... yet

When are they going to start to build the hotel there?

[johng]

Maybe when they finish the first one...

original plans said there would be 2 towers.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=365601

[johng]

[tropo]

Your first photos is bit deceiving. The shopping center elevators are on the far left of that photo. This model shows beyond doubt that the hotel tower is built above the carpark and not the shopping mall and even then only above a small area of the carpark.

[raro]

I suggest we do a field trip. Any daredevils out there?

[Rimmer]

I suggest we do a field trip. Any daredevils out there?

Not me call me a coward if you like