The Lie About The Thai Woman

[cognos]

From what I've seen, Thais are no different to western women in their habits, except for the obvious lack of birth control here.

Of course a promiscuous girl who meets a man that she considers a possible marriage candidate may well hold back as she would want to give the impression that she's a "good girl". Some of them are certainly good at fooling people.

yes, they are..hmmm ..the more I read here the more my illusion in shattered, and that's a good thing. We are all here to learn.. maybe the academics have it all wrong, maybe the whole world is basically down to the same level..and just a thought..are "role models" like Madonna and Brittani Spears helpful in this convoluted,upside down sexual revolution Part 2 ?? before it was Farah Fawcett and then Courtney Cox, and we have seen those train wrecks..I guess the flip side is Mike Tyson..

[james24]

You know the Lie: Thai (and sometimes Asian) woman are often unfairly portrayed as more promiscuous than western woman in the Western media; I allege this is done under the subtle but persistent guise of racism, and it is unacceptable. bg's in Thailand's sex industry comprises but a tiny fraction (.2 % ?) of the young female population in LOS. In general the average young Thai woman "..is heavily pressured in society to look and act modest and chaste." ..from Good Medicine For Thai fever, 2004, page 116. This is why for many of those who marry conservative Thai woman, or Thai/Chinese women, there is frequently no sex prior to marriage. Many farang obviously do not go this route, however the best things in life usually take time and are not easy. Although the Western stereotypes of Thai woman remain in some quarters, the reality is more like," ..a Thai woman is likely to have had fewer sexual partners than the corresponding Western woman ." Good Medicine For Thai Fever, page 118. One could ask, why does Western media and western society in general still persist in believing the lie?

You also know the double standard for young women, and in LOS it is no different. From a Khmer proverb, "Men are Gold, woman are cloth." A Cambodian woman explained it this way.."the men look like gold. When it drops in mud we can clean it, but the woman look like white clothes; when it drops in mud we cannot clean it to be white again." ..from Sex Slaves, The Trafficking of Women in Asia, Louise Brown,2000, page 246. Should not the Proverb read...."Men are gold, and woman far more precious than that!!"

2 per cent?? Where ju get that from??? It doesnt matter where you are, most women are all the same, some good some bad.

[cognos]

You know the Lie: Thai (and sometimes Asian) woman are often unfairly portrayed as more promiscuous than western woman in the Western media; I allege this is done under the subtle but persistent guise of racism, and it is unacceptable. bg's in Thailand's sex industry comprises but a tiny fraction (.2 % ?) of the young female population in LOS. In general the average young Thai woman "..is heavily pressured in society to look and act modest and chaste." ..from Good Medicine For Thai fever, 2004, page 116. This is why for many of those who marry conservative Thai woman, or Thai/Chinese women, there is frequently no sex prior to marriage. Many farang obviously do not go this route, however the best things in life usually take time and are not easy. Although the Western stereotypes of Thai woman remain in some quarters, the reality is more like," ..a Thai woman is likely to have had fewer sexual partners than the corresponding Western woman ." Good Medicine For Thai Fever, page 118. One could ask, why does Western media and western society in general still persist in believing the lie?

You also know the double standard for young women, and in LOS it is no different. From a Khmer proverb, "Men are Gold, woman are cloth." A Cambodian woman explained it this way.."the men look like gold. When it drops in mud we can clean it, but the woman look like white clothes; when it drops in mud we cannot clean it to be white again." ..from Sex Slaves, The Trafficking of Women in Asia, Louise Brown,2000, page 246. Should not the Proverb read...."Men are gold, and woman far more precious than that!!"

2 per cent?? Where ju get that from??? It doesnt matter where you are, most women are all the same, some good some bad.

It reads .2 %.. got that figure from a few sources, like SEX SLAVES, author:LOUISE BROWN..it means that about 99.8 % of Thai woman are NOT bg's..whatever the real % really is,it is small indeed..strange how so many farang are married to such a small % of the Thai female population..

[cognos]

i have never seen anything anywhere in the media that suggests thai women are more sexually active than western women. its common knowledge that this is not the case as thai society is more patriarchal than western society... plus, it sounds like OP is one of those really weird old guys with psychological issues who wants to find himself a "young, pure, virgin" to marry or something like that...

I'm 52, look younger, wife is 38, looks younger, my wife had a sexual life before I met her, my bpen rai khrap

[cognos]

i have never seen anything anywhere in the media that suggests thai women are more sexually active than western women. its common knowledge that this is not the case as thai society is more patriarchal than western society... plus, it sounds like OP is one of those really weird old guys with psychological issues who wants to find himself a "young, pure, virgin" to marry or something like that...

BTW: Thai society is MATRIARCHAL...where places like India, Iran Iraq, etc... are very PATRIARCHAL societies..have you ever noticed in LOS the women often virtually run the families?? Maybe its just my family, with 6 sisters in law and only 2 brothers in law

[a2396]

You know the Lie: Thai (and sometimes Asian) woman are often unfairly portrayed as more promiscuous than western woman in the Western media; I allege this is done under the subtle but persistent guise of racism, and it is unacceptable. bg's in Thailand's sex industry comprises but a tiny fraction (.2 % ?) of the young female population in LOS. In general the average young Thai woman "..is heavily pressured in society to look and act modest and chaste." ..from Good Medicine For Thai fever, 2004, page 116. This is why for many of those who marry conservative Thai woman, or Thai/Chinese women, there is frequently no sex prior to marriage. Many farang obviously do not go this route, however the best things in life usually take time and are not easy. Although the Western stereotypes of Thai woman remain in some quarters, the reality is more like," ..a Thai woman is likely to have had fewer sexual partners than the corresponding Western woman ." Good Medicine For Thai Fever, page 118. One could ask, why does Western media and western society in general still persist in believing the lie?

You also know the double standard for young women, and in LOS it is no different. From a Khmer proverb, "Men are Gold, woman are cloth." A Cambodian woman explained it this way.."the men look like gold. When it drops in mud we can clean it, but the woman look like white clothes; when it drops in mud we cannot clean it to be white again." ..from Sex Slaves, The Trafficking of Women in Asia, Louise Brown,2000, page 246. Should not the Proverb read...."Men are gold, and woman far more precious than that!!"

Nice proverb. The problem is most Falang's never get to meet these thai good girls. I actually think that the other 98% are not all destined for sainthood either. A woman has needs and desires just like you and me no matter where you are in the world. Anyway, who really wants an inexperienced woman or virgin. Yes, I desire someone that stimulates me mentally as well as physically, but I also don't want a woman who is shrouded in virtue.

yes, I agree with you re: inexperienced.. In my case I was willing to wait the 18 months of dating her, and she only told me after we were married some details about a couple of her previous thai boyfriends..that she slept with nit noi..as if we didn't fool around when single...you are a guy, you know.. if you want her, she wants to, but wants to make you wait..if you love her and feel like waiting, it's fun and actually and well worth it. Its one extreme to the other..

You waited 18 months to have sex with her? I wouldn't wait 18 days!! Such stuff is utter nonsense in this day & age. I would NEVER marry a woman without haveing sex with her for a reasonable amount of time to see if we are compatible or not. Sex is not like eating ham & eggs. There are are many variations in ones level of interest and performance and preferences. Women shuld also have the right to have equal status of experimentation as men without having to be viewed as promiscious.

[a2396]

What a load of old <deleted>

Lets leave the conservative Bangkok families out of the picture for a moment.

From my experience in this country there is a lot of totally SCANDALOUS things going on, which would give Jerry Springer a run for his money. Married people sleeping around, sleeping with their sisters boyfriend, next door neighbor, really daring things where they dont seem to be afraid of getting caught. I met one girls who admitted to me she had slept with their OWN brothers (perhaps unwillingly). Talk to almost any Thai and there is a huge amount of gossip going around and a lot of infidelity and utterly shocking things going on right under your nose!

Ive lived extensively in Chiang Mai so perhaps this is a northern trait.

I think plenty goes on Thai to Thai and it is kept out of view & knowledge to Farangs, for obvious reasons.

[a2396]

Can't claim to have read the entire thread, but how do we (or perhaps, to return to the OP's question, the "Western media") define "promiscuous"?

Is a promiscuous person one who ...

has sex with another person before marriage

has sex with another person for money

has sex with another person for pleasure

has sex hoping a commitment can be avoided

has sex with another person on the first date

has sex with another person in the hope of a commitment ensuing

has sex with more than a certain number of others

(no need to continue, I hope...) ?

Seems to me that threads like this tend to bring people leaping to defend their partners'/their own practice, with very little real discussion taking place .

It could be an interesting discussion, but it's not heading in that direction at present.

So, who's definitions are these? Most of them are laughable.

[cognos]

You know the Lie: Thai (and sometimes Asian) woman are often unfairly portrayed as more promiscuous than western woman in the Western media; I allege this is done under the subtle but persistent guise of racism, and it is unacceptable. bg's in Thailand's sex industry comprises but a tiny fraction (.2 % ?) of the young female population in LOS. In general the average young Thai woman "..is heavily pressured in society to look and act modest and chaste." ..from Good Medicine For Thai fever, 2004, page 116. This is why for many of those who marry conservative Thai woman, or Thai/Chinese women, there is frequently no sex prior to marriage. Many farang obviously do not go this route, however the best things in life usually take time and are not easy. Although the Western stereotypes of Thai woman remain in some quarters, the reality is more like," ..a Thai woman is likely to have had fewer sexual partners than the corresponding Western woman ." Good Medicine For Thai Fever, page 118. One could ask, why does Western media and western society in general still persist in believing the lie?

You also know the double standard for young women, and in LOS it is no different. From a Khmer proverb, "Men are Gold, woman are cloth." A Cambodian woman explained it this way.."the men look like gold. When it drops in mud we can clean it, but the woman look like white clothes; when it drops in mud we cannot clean it to be white again." ..from Sex Slaves, The Trafficking of Women in Asia, Louise Brown,2000, page 246. Should not the Proverb read...."Men are gold, and woman far more precious than that!!"

Nice proverb. The problem is most Falang's never get to meet these thai good girls. I actually think that the other 98% are not all destined for sainthood either. A woman has needs and desires just like you and me no matter where you are in the world. Anyway, who really wants an inexperienced woman or virgin. Yes, I desire someone that stimulates me mentally as well as physically, but I also don't want a woman who is shrouded in virtue.

yes, I agree with you re: inexperienced.. In my case I was willing to wait the 18 months of dating her, and she only told me after we were married some details about a couple of her previous thai boyfriends..that she slept with nit noi..as if we didn't fool around when single...you are a guy, you know.. if you want her, she wants to, but wants to make you wait..if you love her and feel like waiting, it's fun and actually and well worth it. Its one extreme to the other..

You waited 18 months to have sex with her? I wouldn't wait 18 days!! Such stuff is utter nonsense in this day & age. I would NEVER marry a woman without haveing sex with her for a reasonable amount of time to see if we are compatible or not. Sex is not like eating ham & eggs. There are are many variations in ones level of interest and performance and preferences. Women shuld also have the right to have equal status of experimentation as men without having to be viewed as promiscious.

why would you not wait 18 days? ..we live in a world of INSTANT gratification..its none of your business, but I will tell you anyway..she was very sensual and eager, but just no intercourse..thats why I was not worried that she would be a cold fish, and she isn't. It went from no sex to almost too much..if you can't take the situation into your own hands then by all means screw the first night,easy come easy go,same same, up to you.. my bpen rai khrap

[cognos]

you know the bottom line is.. who cares what the % of bg's is??..no way its as high as 10%..but lets pretend it is..a disproportionate amount of farang are choosing from that small pool of "10%",or 5 % or 2% or whatever..why narrow yourself to such a small pool of Thai women from which to choose a gf or wife?? ..it almost smacks of self abuse..but lets stay on topic..are current statistics showing Thai women in general are more chaste than their western counterparts? The answer seems to be more and more NO from the replies out there..as LOS blends into a western malaise with the concomitant sexual freedoms and consequences of untold millions of single mothers whose child's father has F'd off.

[GreenSnapper]

The road in Bangkok where I lived, had four 7/11 and three short time hotels. And this was a normal neighbourhood, far from the tourist spots.

Go figure...

In my personal experience, I follow the same standards I have with women in the West: never date more than 3 times without being laid. It works in 90% of all dates. Women are not different in the West or in Thailand. Some just pretend to....

[cognos]

The road in Bangkok where I lived, had four 7/11 and three short time hotels. And this was a normal neighbourhood, far from the tourist spots.

Go figure...

In my personal experience, I follow the same standards I have with women in the West: never date more than 3 times without being laid. It works in 90% of all dates. Women are not different in the West or in Thailand. Some just pretend to....

I understand, almost instant gratification..so what would you do if you fell head over heels in love with a very comely Thai lass, and your willy was still dry after 3 dates?? ..ditch her???..you are right, they are the same..they are not content with their skin color ..the Western ones try to be more brown and the Thai ones try to be whiter...

[loong]

............................ Thai women in general are more chaste than their western counterparts? The answer seems to be more and more NO from the replies out there..as LOS blends into a western malaise with the concomitant sexual freedoms and consequences of untold millions of single mothers whose child's father has F'd off.

If Thai women are enjoying more sexual freedom, why do you blame this on the West? Who do you blame for sexual freedom in the Western world?

It seems from your posts that you may believe and support the double standard that men should be allowed to sow their wild oats everywhere, but women should remain chaste until they marry.

Do you believe in equal rights for women?

Sexual liberation for women in the West is a by product of women becoming more independent (coupled with the availability of birth control). For years women's role in society was to get married, have children and stay at home to care for the children and their husbands. She was supposed to look on sex as a chore, necessary to bear children and keep her husband happy.

Nowadays women go to work, can support themselves and more importantly, be allowed to think for themselves. Why should they conform to the male ideal that she should be a virgin when/if she marries?

-----------------------------------------

Would you have married your wife if she had had 10 or 20 men before you? How many women did you have before you married? This question is not aimed at you in particular - no need to answer.

Some men would be disgusted to find that their prospective wife had been with so many men before, never mind how many women they have had. This is why so many women will feel they have to lie about their sexual experience. Sad.

[IanForbes]

............................ Thai women in general are more chaste than their western counterparts? The answer seems to be more and more NO from the replies out there..as LOS blends into a western malaise with the concomitant sexual freedoms and consequences of untold millions of single mothers whose child's father has F'd off.

If Thai women are enjoying more sexual freedom, why do you blame this on the West? Who do you blame for sexual freedom in the Western world?

It seems from your posts that you may believe and support the double standard that men should be allowed to sow their wild oats everywhere, but women should remain chaste until they marry.

Do you believe in equal rights for women?

Sexual liberation for women in the West is a by product of women becoming more independent (coupled with the availability of birth control). For years women's role in society was to get married, have children and stay at home to care for the children and their husbands. She was supposed to look on sex as a chore, necessary to bear children and keep her husband happy.

Nowadays women go to work, can support themselves and more importantly, be allowed to think for themselves. Why should they conform to the male ideal that she should be a virgin when/if she marries?

-----------------------------------------

Would you have married your wife if she had had 10 or 20 men before you? How many women did you have before you married? This question is not aimed at you in particular - no need to answer.

Some men would be disgusted to find that their prospective wife had been with so many men before, never mind how many women they have had. This is why so many women will feel they have to lie about their sexual experience. Sad.

Bingo! Give that answer a Kewpie doll from the top shelf. There has always been too many double standards and judgemental people. Anyone can start a new life despite their past history. The only thing that is important is how well they treat other people.

[cognos]

Regards loong: strange how my nieces call me by your name..I blame us men for the sexual double standard, not the west (well,maybe Mae West and her husky voice of "reason"..come and visit me sometime big boy..). We were brought up to believe we could sow our wild oats ad nauseum and if a girl does this it is the S--t word for her. I hate the double standard, thats all, period. I am not better than the masses, I did it too, however in my middle age I just hope in vain things will change, for women's sake..of course it won't. I just wanted to start a dialogue..maybe the poster (not you loong) will change his mantra from the strict 3 date sex rule to the much more flexible four date sex rule Yes,I believe in equal rights for men and women,and I think my wife probably did sleep with at least 10 men prior..again, my bpen rai khrap

[IanForbes]

It is changing for the better, cognos, but all change takes time. I've seen remarkable changes for the better in my life time. 50 years ago, single women with children were looked down upon. That is not the case today, except for a few judgemental people. Same with Homosexuality. It was considered a sin 30 years ago and anyone who was gay kept it quiet. Now, people can be openly gay with only a portion of the population taking offence.

But, with change comes other problems. Women who SAID they want liberation are now finding they have to compete honestly with men. Many women want former rules and regulations changed so they can compete. That has happened in former firemen and police requirements where the physical standards have been lowered. Women get the better of most divorce settlements because the courts are using old fashioned thinking, but that is slowly changing. Where indifidelity was once a topic for divorce settlements it's no longer the case.

[GreenSnapper]

I understand, almost instant gratification..so what would you do if you fell head over heels in love with a very comely Thai lass, and your willy was still dry after 3 dates?? ..ditch her???..

When dating a girl, you have to quickly get rid of the psychos, the holy virgins or low drive girls. Otherwise you will be wasting your time.

The 3-date rule works well: I give her a chance to get to know me and start a relationship. She has a few days to consider that, to see if our chemistry fits. But I'm also a man with certain desires, and I do not let girls play with me.

So she can decide, or I move on. Don't waste time with girls who from the beginning neglect your sexuality.

[Jungian]

I have only ever been with one Thai woman (my wife) but in my dating days in the USA, 1980's and 1990's it seemed to me taking the average American woman out to dinner almost certainly guaranteed sex providing you weren't a jerk.

Ok, granted, im not American. But, in this western femaIes experience, a man taking me out for a meaI wouId never equate to him getting sex. I have aIso never heard this from any of my friends. I aIways thought it was the norm that peopIe get to know each other over some time then decide if they want to take things further.

I am very happy for you in that event and I am not sure if my experience is typical or not. I can not count how many times I was put in a sexual situation on a first or second date. To spite the fact I am a man it put me in an awkward position. I guess the first thing that always went through my mind was it was the money not me and the second thing was if she is ready to sleep with me how many others did she sleep with. I actually asked a date one night how many men she slept with and she told me like 40. I was quite shocked by this but her logic was: she was sexually active for 10 years, she would have a relationship every 3 months or so therefore it had to be 40 plus people but she didn't know for sure but she was ready to make me number 41 but I wasn't.

[loong]

Regards loong: strange how my nieces call me by your name..I blame us men for the sexual double standard, not the west (well,maybe Mae West and her husky voice of "reason"..come and visit me sometime big boy..). We were brought up to believe we could sow our wild oats ad nauseum and if a girl does this it is the S--t word for her. I hate the double standard, thats all, period. I am not better than the masses, I did it too, however in my middle age I just hope in vain things will change, for women's sake..of course it won't. I just wanted to start a dialogue..maybe the poster (not you loong) will change his mantra from the strict 3 date sex rule to the much more flexible four date sex rule Yes,I believe in equal rights for men and women,and I think my wife probably did sleep with at least 10 men prior..again, my bpen rai khrap

It is changing for the better, cognos, but all change takes time. I've seen remarkable changes for the better in my life time. 50 years ago, single women with children were looked down upon. That is not the case today, except for a few judgemental people. Same with Homosexuality. It was considered a sin 30 years ago and anyone who was gay kept it quiet. Now, people can be openly gay with only a portion of the population taking offence.

But, with change comes other problems. Women who SAID they want liberation are now finding they have to compete honestly with men. Many women want former rules and regulations changed so they can compete. That has happened in former firemen and police requirements where the physical standards have been lowered. Women get the better of most divorce settlements because the courts are using old fashioned thinking, but that is slowly changing. Where indifidelity was once a topic for divorce settlements it's no longer the case.

Two posts with a lot of sense

I am very happy for you in that event and I am not sure if my experience is typical or not. I can not count how many times I was put in a sexual situation on a first or second date. To spite the fact I am a man it put me in an awkward position. I guess the first thing that always went through my mind was it was the money not me and the second thing was if she is ready to sleep with me how many others did she sleep with. I actually asked a date one night how many men she slept with and she told me like 40. I was quite shocked by this but her logic was: she was sexually active for 10 years, she would have a relationship every 3 months or so therefore it had to be 40 plus people but she didn't know for sure but she was ready to make me number 41 but I wasn't.

This is why the women will lie, they tell you what they want you to hear.

If she had lied to you, you would not have thought badly of her. You would not have been Shocked.

Can't you see that you are a hypocrite? You think that it is okay for you to sleep with a woman after 1 or 2 dates, yet you think that the same woman should hold on to her virtue for such a long time. Unless you are a film star or super handsome, if a woman sleeps with you on the first or second date, it IS reasonable to assume that she would have slept with other men on the first or second date.

But if you question them they will tell you that you are only their 2nd or 3rd because they know that's what you want to hear.

In reality you were prepared to sleep with a fibber, but not with someone who tells the truth.

[cognos]

I understand, almost instant gratification..so what would you do if you fell head over heels in love with a very comely Thai lass, and your willy was still dry after 3 dates?? ..ditch her???..

When dating a girl, you have to quickly get rid of the psychos, the holy virgins or low drive girls. Otherwise you will be wasting your time.

The 3-date rule works well: I give her a chance to get to know me and start a relationship. She has a few days to consider that, to see if our chemistry fits. But I'm also a man with certain desires, and I do not let girls play with me.

So she can decide, or I move on. Don't waste time with girls who from the beginning neglect your sexuality.

I agree with you.. I would never have waited (because sex is important) if I thought she was a "cold fish".. (especially with all the lovely fish in the Adaman Sea and Gulf of Thailand..)..she took care of me as well as possible under the circumstances, then I would sometimes roll over and go to sleep Waiting is not for everyone, even me, unless under extraordinary cicumstances, or rather women..is she conservative now? ..as liberal as it gets..with her university degree she's a good student, learns quick..NOTE: Thai women make some of the best wives in the world, so wherever she came from, whatever her background, whatever her family or social status,treat her with respect and love and you will never be happier. signed: the truth hurts

[cognos]

..forgot to add..I agree ! with you about wasting your time if your sexuality is not taken care of..in my case it WAS, but some need it all right away; I understand that.. each to their own. This method of waiting in some cases a month or two (and with the wife obviously longer) worked for me several times in the past with the lovely women, but without patience it never happens, for me anyway

[bonobo]

............................ Thai women in general are more chaste than their western counterparts? The answer seems to be more and more NO from the replies out there..as LOS blends into a western malaise with the concomitant sexual freedoms and consequences of untold millions of single mothers whose child's father has F'd off.

I find it odd to keep hearing about how promiscuity is supposedly a western innovation.  It wasn't that long ago that the prevalent western philosophy concerning sex was the Victorian model.  Meanwhile, in Japan you had your netsuksa, in India the kama sutra is celebrated, and in Thailand, prostitution has long been an accepted practice.  True, prostitutes may not be high in the social hierarchy, but they have not been castigated to the same extent that prostitutes generally have been in the west.

[bonobo]

I agree with you.. I would never have waited (because sex is important) if I thought she was a "cold fish".. (especially with all the lovely fish in the Adaman Sea and Gulf of Thailand..)..she took care of me as well as possible under the circumstances, then I would sometimes roll over and go to sleep Waiting is not for everyone, even me, unless under extraordinary cicumstances, or rather women..is she conservative now? ..as liberal as it gets..with her university degree she's a good student, learns quick..NOTE: Thai women make some of the best wives in the world, so wherever she came from, whatever her background, whatever her family or social status,treat her with respect and love and you will never be happier. signed: the truth hurts

Whether you wait or not is up to you and your partner.  If both are happy with waiting for 18 months or 18 years, then that is the correct choice for you.

I can not wait myself. I don't have a formal 3-date rule, but in practice, it seems to pretty much work out that way in most cases.  My ex loved sex until she found religion, then transferred her passion to her religious activities, only "backsliding" occassionally into the carnal realm.  So, while I do not think sex is the most important aspect of a relationship, I do want to make sure a woman and I are compatible in that area.  And for me, a woman who thinks intercourse is "giving in" or that it is some sort of prize to give out, well, we have divergent ideas on what sex is.  So most likely, I will be moving on.

I also don't give a fig on how many partners a woman has had in the past.  It would never be consideration for me.  I have had more than the average number of partners in my life, and I still think I am a good person capable of being a good partner, so why should that be different for a woman?

[Jungian]

Regards loong: strange how my nieces call me by your name..I blame us men for the sexual double standard, not the west (well,maybe Mae West and her husky voice of "reason"..come and visit me sometime big boy..). We were brought up to believe we could sow our wild oats ad nauseum and if a girl does this it is the S--t word for her. I hate the double standard, thats all, period. I am not better than the masses, I did it too, however in my middle age I just hope in vain things will change, for women's sake..of course it won't. I just wanted to start a dialogue..maybe the poster (not you loong) will change his mantra from the strict 3 date sex rule to the much more flexible four date sex rule Yes,I believe in equal rights for men and women,and I think my wife probably did sleep with at least 10 men prior..again, my bpen rai khrap

It is changing for the better, cognos, but all change takes time. I've seen remarkable changes for the better in my life time. 50 years ago, single women with children were looked down upon. That is not the case today, except for a few judgemental people. Same with Homosexuality. It was considered a sin 30 years ago and anyone who was gay kept it quiet. Now, people can be openly gay with only a portion of the population taking offence.

But, with change comes other problems. Women who SAID they want liberation are now finding they have to compete honestly with men. Many women want former rules and regulations changed so they can compete. That has happened in former firemen and police requirements where the physical standards have been lowered. Women get the better of most divorce settlements because the courts are using old fashioned thinking, but that is slowly changing. Where indifidelity was once a topic for divorce settlements it's no longer the case.

Two posts with a lot of sense

I am very happy for you in that event and I am not sure if my experience is typical or not. I can not count how many times I was put in a sexual situation on a first or second date. To spite the fact I am a man it put me in an awkward position. I guess the first thing that always went through my mind was it was the money not me and the second thing was if she is ready to sleep with me how many others did she sleep with. I actually asked a date one night how many men she slept with and she told me like 40. I was quite shocked by this but her logic was: she was sexually active for 10 years, she would have a relationship every 3 months or so therefore it had to be 40 plus people but she didn't know for sure but she was ready to make me number 41 but I wasn't.

This is why the women will lie, they tell you what they want you to hear.

If she had lied to you, you would not have thought badly of her. You would not have been Shocked.

Can't you see that you are a hypocrite? You think that it is okay for you to sleep with a woman after 1 or 2 dates, yet you think that the same woman should hold on to her virtue for such a long time. Unless you are a film star or super handsome, if a woman sleeps with you on the first or second date, it IS reasonable to assume that she would have slept with other men on the first or second date.

But if you question them they will tell you that you are only their 2nd or 3rd because they know that's what you want to hear.

In reality you were prepared to sleep with a fibber, but not with someone who tells the truth.

I don't see how I am a hypocrite no, I haven't slept with that many women (I don't believe I even imply that I did) come to think of it I could tell you everyone's name and birthday and the ones I did have relations with were never until I at least knew them for a long period of time and had an exclusive relationship with them actually in every case we were in a relationship for more than one year. Perhaps when I was younger not thinking so morally what did stop me from sleeping with so many women was the fact I was thinking "Wow how many other people did they hop in the back seat with" pretty much what you said. I started dating during the 80's when AIDS foremost pounded into our heads. I don't judge people and I'm not more holy than thou but I have standards and I hold men and women to them equally, men are sluts too and I bring in to question their intelligence and moral fortitude when they are on some conquest. But I do agree with you about why women and some men lie and I don't blame them but when you get to the point you have to lie you have to realize you are embarrassing yourself...

[eek]

............................ Thai women in general are more chaste than their western counterparts? The answer seems to be more and more NO from the replies out there..as LOS blends into a western malaise with the concomitant sexual freedoms and consequences of untold millions of single mothers whose child's father has F'd off.

If Thai women are enjoying more sexual freedom, why do you blame this on the West? Who do you blame for sexual freedom in the Western world?

It seems from your posts that you may believe and support the double standard that men should be allowed to sow their wild oats everywhere, but women should remain chaste until they marry.

Do you believe in equal rights for women?

Sexual liberation for women in the West is a by product of women becoming more independent (coupled with the availability of birth control). For years women's role in society was to get married, have children and stay at home to care for the children and their husbands. She was supposed to look on sex as a chore, necessary to bear children and keep her husband happy.

Nowadays women go to work, can support themselves and more importantly, be allowed to think for themselves. Why should they conform to the male ideal that she should be a virgin when/if she marries?

-----------------------------------------

Would you have married your wife if she had had 10 or 20 men before you? How many women did you have before you married? This question is not aimed at you in particular - no need to answer.

Some men would be disgusted to find that their prospective wife had been with so many men before, never mind how many women they have had. This is why so many women will feel they have to lie about their sexual experience. Sad.

:D

---------------------------------------

As for not waiting for some time for a woman to be with you sexually, I think that depends on the couple. But, I believe in general if a woman is given time to trust her partner and feel at ease, then the rewards for the man is a more sensual partner thus most likely a better experience for both. Plus, the lead up is often a part of the thrill/chase and excitement. Im my opinion relationships should develop over a period of time, emotionally and physically.

---------------------------------------

..and i was going to write something else..but ive forgotten...geez, all this talk about sex has made my brain foggy...

--

edit: Oh yeh, i remember now..! Its the point about how many people we have dated/slept with in our pasts. Thing is, why is it something we need to know about our partners really? Mr Eek and I may have only been dating 15 months, but I have no idea about his dating and sexual history, other than he has been married. I never asked him. He never asked me. Even if our relationship lasts a very long time, I am pretty sure I will never ask him about his past in that sense. I dont really see what purpose it serves to know that tbh.

Edited June 9, 2009 by eek

[sanook2me]

edit: Oh yeh, i remember now..! Its the point about how many people we have dated/slept with in our pasts. Thing is, why is it something we need to know about our partners really? Mr Eek and I may have only been dating 15 months, but I have no idea about his dating and sexual history, other than he has been married. I never asked him. He never asked me. Even if our relationship lasts a very long time, I am pretty sure I will never ask him about his past in that sense. I dont really see what purpose it serves to know that tbh.

There is no need to know how many sexual partners your partner has had as you will only ever use it in anger against them.

What good can it do?

[bonobo]

--

edit: Oh yeh, i remember now..! Its the point about how many people we have dated/slept with in our pasts. Thing is, why is it something we need to know about our partners really? Mr Eek and I may have only been dating 15 months, but I have no idea about his dating and sexual history, other than he has been married. I never asked him. He never asked me. Even if our relationship lasts a very long time, I am pretty sure I will never ask him about his past in that sense. I dont really see what purpose it serves to know that tbh.

In theory, you are correct. It shouldn't matter.  It may be curiousity about all apsects of one's past, but no more important than your jobs you had while in high school or what sports you played as a student.

However, and this coming from someone who leans towards promiscuity, there are some potential health risks which have increased chances of occurrance based on the total number of sexual contacts a person has had.  Most affect women, but the numbers don't lie. So the knowledge that a woman, for example, has had more than a few previous sexual contacts should make that person more aware to regularly check for cervical cancer.  I am making no moral judgements here--I am not a hypocrite. But just pointing out that a person's past sexual history can have a bearing on the future and perhaps should not be ignored anymore than a person's family history of diabetes, heart disease, or any other health concern.

[WaiWai]

It may be curiousity about all apsects of one's past, but no more important than your jobs you had while in high school or what sports you played as a student.

While specific numbers may be of no great interest (unless extreme in one way or another!), I would think patterns of past relations & relationships will normally be of much interest to people if they are moving past a casual connection, like playing sport .

And while people don't, so far as I know, often make a point of asking about these matters, the information normally just comes out as part of getting to know someone; just in the course of sharing stories and experiences about the past and expectations for the future. It's not merely interesting; it is an important way of getting to understand the other person.

Edited June 9, 2009 by WaiWai

[WaiWai]

It may be curiousity about all apsects of one's past, but no more important than your jobs you had while in high school or what sports you played as a student.

While specific numbers may be of no great interest (unless extreme in one way or another!), I would think patterns of past relations & relationships will normally be of much interest to people if they are moving past a casual connection, like playing sport .

And while people don't, so far as I know, often make a point of asking about these matters, the information normally just comes out naturally, as part of getting to know someone; just in the course of sharing stories and experiences about the past and expectations for the future. It's not merely interesting; it is an important way of getting to understand the other person.

P.S. Perhaps especially so when people are from diffferent cultural backgrounds?

Edited June 9, 2009 by WaiWai

[loong]

I don't see how I am a hypocrite no, I haven't slept with that many women (I don't believe I even imply that I did) come to think of it I could tell you everyone's name and birthday and the ones I did have relations with were never until I at least knew them for a long period of time and had an exclusive relationship with them actually in every case we were in a relationship for more than one year. Perhaps when I was younger not thinking so morally what did stop me from sleeping with so many women was the fact I was thinking "Wow how many other people did they hop in the back seat with" pretty much what you said. I started dating during the 80's when AIDS foremost pounded into our heads. I don't judge people and I'm not more holy than thou but I have standards and I hold men and women to them equally, men are sluts too and I bring in to question their intelligence and moral fortitude when they are on some conquest. But I do agree with you about why women and some men lie and I don't blame them but when you get to the point you have to lie you have to realize you are embarrassing yourself...

Please accept my apology Jungian. Re reading your post.........................

I am very happy for you in that event and I am not sure if my experience is typical or not. I can not count how many times I was put in a sexual situation on a first or second date. To spite the fact I am a man it put me in an awkward position. I guess the first thing that always went through my mind was it was the money not me and the second thing was if she is ready to sleep with me how many others did she sleep with. I actually asked a date one night how many men she slept with and she told me like 40. I was quite shocked by this but her logic was: she was sexually active for 10 years, she would have a relationship every 3 months or so therefore it had to be 40 plus people but she didn't know for sure but she was ready to make me number 41 but I wasn't.

.................I can see that I did misunderstand. I should have read it more carefully. In my defence I think that others may have misunderstood also. A prior post of yours was definitely ambiguous.......

I have only ever been with one Thai woman (my wife) but in my dating days in the USA, 1980's and 1990's it seemed to me taking the average American woman out to dinner almost certainly guaranteed sex providing you weren't a jerk.

....... I hope that you can see that this does imply that you were a bit of a lad in your younger days. You don't actually say that you slept with so many women after a dinner date, but a reader could be forgiven for assuming don't you think?

Anyway, it was my mistake and I am sorry for misjudging you.