The Lie About The Thai Woman

[MyphuketLife]

I have only ever been with one Thai woman (my wife) but in my dating days in the USA, 1980's and 1990's it seemed to me taking the average American woman out to dinner almost certainly guaranteed sex providing you weren't a jerk.

Ok, granted, im not American. But, in this western femaIes experience, a man taking me out for a meaI wouId never equate to him getting sex. I have aIso never heard this from any of my friends. I aIways thought it was the norm that peopIe get to know each other over some time then decide if they want to take things further.

I am sorry but I can count on one hand how many women I did not get into bed by the third date. Truth be told most women sleep with the man by the second date, unless as "eek" puts it you werent a jerk.

How long do you normally take to "get to know" some one?

[eek]

How long do you normally take to "get to know" some one?

That would depend on person to person really, right? Not going into too much personal detail, but for me, Im not interested in a man who doesnt think im good enough to hold out for. And, although others may not agree with that way of thinking, thats how i think. It doesnt mean im a cold fish, its not an all or nothing situation, it just means that I believe in taking time to get to know someone before it gets too intimate. I have found that the most compatible and committed men (imo) are the ones who consider me worth waiting for. Its also a good way for me to figure out which men are likely to stick around for the long term. Im not saying its a right or wrong way to do things, im just saying its the right way for me. Ive also been quite clear about it, that when I meet someone and there is mutual interest, I want to get to know them better. Im just not interested in 'flings'.

Edited June 9, 2009 by eek

[Thaddeus]

Im just not interested in 'flings'.

I agree, flings ain't what they used to be.

[bonobo]

How long do you normally take to "get to know" some one?

That would depend on person to person really, right? Not going into too much personal detail, but for me, Im not interested in a man who doesnt think im good enough to hold out for. And, although others may not agree with that way of thinking, thats how i think. It doesnt mean im a cold fish, its not an all or nothing situation, it just means that I believe in taking time to get to know someone before it gets too intimate. I have found that the most compatible and committed men (imo) are the ones who consider me worth waiting for. Its also a good way for me to figure out which men are likely to stick around for the long term. Im not saying its a right or wrong way to do things, im just saying its the right way for me. Ive also been quite clear about it, that when I meet someone and there is mutual interest, I want to get to know them better. Im just not interested in 'flings'.

It is not about right or wrong, it is about what is right or wrong for each individual, as eek infers.  Eek, if waiting works for you, then that is "right" for you.  Myphuketlife, if going quickly works for you, then that is "right" for you.  All of us are different, and we all have different ways which are right or wrong for us.  I would take it even further and say that all of us have different right and wrongs within our own experiences.  What was right for us with person X 5 years ago was not right with person Y this year.

Edited June 9, 2009 by bonobo

[MyphuketLife]

How long do you normally take to "get to know" some one?

That would depend on person to person really, right? Not going into too much personal detail, but for me, Im not interested in a man who doesnt think im good enough to hold out for. And, although others may not agree with that way of thinking, thats how i think. It doesnt mean im a cold fish, its not an all or nothing situation, it just means that I believe in taking time to get to know someone before it gets too intimate. I have found that the most compatible and committed men (imo) are the ones who consider me worth waiting for. Its also a good way for me to figure out which men are likely to stick around for the long term. Im not saying its a right or wrong way to do things, im just saying its the right way for me. Ive also been quite clear about it, that when I meet someone and there is mutual interest, I want to get to know them better. Im just not interested in 'flings'.

I can see that thought process... And waiting does not make someone a "cold fish" in my opinion. You also run the risk of a man "sticking it out" just to "win" the prize, the whole time getting satisfied elsewhere. To each their own, wait, don't wait, whatever makes people and their partners happy...

Back on point, I think the media has a bad view strictly because of the hookers and message shops... I can't tell you how many times friends, family, or co-workers from the west have made comments when I first moved here about "be careful", or "how much do they cost", or "I heard they are cheap"... This has never been my scene and never will be my scene, yet its assumed by most people that a male moving to Thailand is doing so for the BG scene.... sad really. This stigmatism make allot of westerns think that ALL Thai women are "easy sluts"... when the truth of the matter is that the NON BG Thai women are just as promiscuous as their counter parts in the west.

Edited June 9, 2009 by MyphuketLife

[MyphuketLife]

How long do you normally take to "get to know" some one?

That would depend on person to person really, right? Not going into too much personal detail, but for me, Im not interested in a man who doesnt think im good enough to hold out for. And, although others may not agree with that way of thinking, thats how i think. It doesnt mean im a cold fish, its not an all or nothing situation, it just means that I believe in taking time to get to know someone before it gets too intimate. I have found that the most compatible and committed men (imo) are the ones who consider me worth waiting for. Its also a good way for me to figure out which men are likely to stick around for the long term. Im not saying its a right or wrong way to do things, im just saying its the right way for me. Ive also been quite clear about it, that when I meet someone and there is mutual interest, I want to get to know them better. Im just not interested in 'flings'.

It is not about right or wrong, it is about what is right or wrong for each individual, as eek infers. Eek, if waiting works for you, then that is "right" for you. Myphuketlife, if going quickly works for you, then that is "right" for you. All of us are different, and we all have different ways which are right or wrong for us. I would take it even further and say that all of us have different right and wrongs within our own experiences. What was right for us with person X 5 years ago was not right with person Y this year.

I did not come off the way I wanted to at first, I agree whats right for you may not be what is right for me, and what was right for me when I was 21 (sleeping with women I just met a couple of hours ago in the dance club), is not right for me now.

In the end its what ever makes you happy, with out hurting others...

[eek]

Well said MyPhuketLife (and Bonobo too),

The point about people assuming all western males are here for the BG scene is something that quite a few male friends (and also some random encounters /chats with men here) have mentioned. Ive mentioned before in this forum, how i feel lucky in the sense that as a female here, im never pestered, badgered, or presumed to be here for that side of Thailand. Many men have expressed how frustrating it is to be all categorised in this way. There are a lot of stereotypes here, sadly. How to overcome them or change that, is another thing. One thing though, although I have little regional experience of Thailand, I do think Chiang Mai generally has a good feel to it, doesnt seem to be too much stereotyping.

[timinchina]

Well said MyPhuketLife (and Bonobo too),

The point about people assuming all western males are here for the BG scene is something that quite a few male friends (and also some random encounters /chats with men here) have mentioned. Ive mentioned before in this forum, how i feel lucky in the sense that as a female here, im never pestered, badgered, or presumed to be here for that side of Thailand. Many men have expressed how frustrating it is to be all categorised in this way. There are a lot of stereotypes here, sadly. How to overcome them or change that, is another thing. One thing though, although I have little regional experience of Thailand, I do think Chiang Mai generally has a good feel to it, doesnt seem to be too much stereotyping.

I only came to Thailand on holiday the first time after being pestered by my friends in Barcelona for a couple of years,they are both Thai but born in London,inevitably their nickname was "The Bangkokneys"!

I loved Thai food,one of my friend's parents run a Thai restaurant in London and when they visited I was always just waiting for the lunch invitation knowing his Mother and Auntie were cooking!

I'd also always wanted to see the fantastic beaches here but the stigma was too much for me,as in:

"I came/I'm going to Thailand for the beaches and food"

"Eeeerrrr,is that right now?"

[geeky]

the chines traders have been coming to Thailand for hundreds of years, because Thai women are known to be very promiscuous; it's not racist, it's just a simple fact ... change the world; start with yourself; stop lying and learn to handle reality for what it really is, instead of forcing your fantasies as reality on others!

the idea that BG's are forced to work in bars due to poverty is total BS as well; most of them do it to be able to buy luxury products etc!

Thai simply don't have our Christian morals and so are much more free to do as they please and so are much more sexual active and this without any moral problems about it, which is why it's for most of them just a small step to sell their body's in the sex trade.

anyway; maybe only 2% actually work in a bar, but almost any girl here in Thailand is willing to share their bed with you for some cash ...

[humfurry]

Refers you all to "Some Girls" Rolling Stones, from the album of the same name. I love them all, even the ex wives...Ahhhhhhh

Cheers

[eek]

I only came to Thailand on holiday the first time after being pestered by my friends in Barcelona for a couple of years,they are both Thai but born in London,inevitably their nickname was "The Bangkokneys"!

I loved Thai food,one of my friend's parents run a Thai restaurant in London and when they visited I was always just waiting for the lunch invitation knowing his Mother and Auntie were cooking!

I'd also always wanted to see the fantastic beaches here but the stigma was too much for me,as in:

"I came/I'm going to Thailand for the beaches and food"

"Eeeerrrr,is that right now?"

I sympathise. Even here on Thaivisa, there are a large percentage of members who think that a man who is more interested in the culture here than in the bar scene are either liers, or have something wrong with them. But, try not to let stigma and stereotyping get in the way of you doing something you would enjoy.

the chines traders have been coming to Thailand for hundreds of years, because Thai women are known to be very promiscuous; it's not racist, it's just a simple fact ... change the world; start with yourself; stop lying and learn to handle reality for what it really is, instead of forcing your fantasies as reality on others!

the idea that BG's are forced to work in bars due to poverty is total BS as well; most of them do it to be able to buy luxury products etc!

Thai simply don't have our Christian morals and so are much more free to do as they please and so are much more sexual active and this without any moral problems about it, which is why it's for most of them just a small step to sell their body's in the sex trade.

anyway; maybe only 2% actually work in a bar, but almost any girl here in Thailand is willing to share their bed with you for some cash ...

I realise that many people are sick of hearing about the poor Thai girl who is forced into bar work out of poverty, but, at the same time, im getting a bit tired of hearing the polar opposite..that its out of greed. Wheres the middle line? I really do not know a huge amount on the subject of why a girl gets involved in that scene, but i have read up some on it. Various stories, various reasons. One middle ground reason (which isnt uncommon) is that a young girl with very little financially makes a poor choice at a young age and ends up pregnant. (Or worse scenario is sexually assaulted/raped in her home town.) Choices are, work your ass off, be given no respect, have trouble feeding and clothing your baby, and basically have limited choices. Or, after you notice that another girl suddenly has a lot of cash, nice things, can dress up her kiddy and give her family cash, go with her and make more money than you can dream of. Probably with no real idea what she is letting herself in for, but figures anything is better than getting no respect, having no life, and probably being taken advantage of in her home town (ie: i read a story where shockingly a young girls older brother would pimp out his sister to his friends). Maybe she figures that she will just work for a while, save up, then make her own small business ..etc ..but, somewhere down the line she started drinking/doing drugs in order to get through what she has to do. So then she has to pay for a drug habit and probably ends up with some dodgy boyfriend along the line too. So, ends up being sucked up in the industry long term to pay off her drink/drugs habit, the bf's habit, sending money home, etc. Yes, she wants more nice things..but i guess she figures 'fk it..im screwed already, may as well make as much, get as much, as i possibly can".

[G54]

I only came to Thailand on holiday the first time after being pestered by my friends in Barcelona for a couple of years,they are both Thai but born in London,inevitably their nickname was "The Bangkokneys"!

I loved Thai food,one of my friend's parents run a Thai restaurant in London and when they visited I was always just waiting for the lunch invitation knowing his Mother and Auntie were cooking!

I'd also always wanted to see the fantastic beaches here but the stigma was too much for me,as in:

"I came/I'm going to Thailand for the beaches and food"

"Eeeerrrr,is that right now?"

I sympathise. Even here on Thaivisa, there are a large percentage of members who think that a man who is more interested in the culture here than in the bar scene are either liers, or have something wrong with them. But, try not to let stigma and stereotyping get in the way of you doing something you would enjoy.

the chines traders have been coming to Thailand for hundreds of years, because Thai women are known to be very promiscuous; it's not racist, it's just a simple fact ... change the world; start with yourself; stop lying and learn to handle reality for what it really is, instead of forcing your fantasies as reality on others!

the idea that BG's are forced to work in bars due to poverty is total BS as well; most of them do it to be able to buy luxury products etc!

Thai simply don't have our Christian morals and so are much more free to do as they please and so are much more sexual active and this without any moral problems about it, which is why it's for most of them just a small step to sell their body's in the sex trade.

anyway; maybe only 2% actually work in a bar, but almost any girl here in Thailand is willing to share their bed with you for some cash ...

I realise that many people are sick of hearing about the poor Thai girl who is forced into bar work out of poverty, but, at the same time, im getting a bit tired of hearing the polar opposite..that its out of greed. Wheres the middle line? I really do not know a huge amount on the subject of why a girl gets involved in that scene, but i have read up some on it. Various stories, various reasons. One middle ground reason (which isnt uncommon) is that a young girl with very little financially makes a poor choice at a young age and ends up pregnant. (Or worse scenario is sexually assaulted/raped in her home town.) Choices are, work your ass off, be given no respect, have trouble feeding and clothing your baby, and basically have limited choices. Or, after you notice that another girl suddenly has a lot of cash, nice things, can dress up her kiddy and give her family cash, go with her and make more money than you can dream of. Probably with no real idea what she is letting herself in for, but figures anything is better than getting no respect, having no life, and probably being taken advantage of in her home town (ie: i read a story where shockingly a young girls older brother would pimp out his sister to his friends). Maybe she figures that she will just work for a while, save up, then make her own small business ..etc ..but, somewhere down the line she started drinking/doing drugs in order to get through what she has to do. So then she has to pay for a drug habit and probably ends up with some dodgy boyfriend along the line too. So, ends up being sucked up in the industry long term to pay off her drink/drugs habit, the bf's habit, sending money home, etc. Yes, she wants more nice things..but i guess she figures 'fk it..im screwed already, may as well make as much, get as much, as i possibly can".

Well put, Eek.

Many of us do tend to forget the hardships or working 12+ hours a day for many of these single mothers.

A lot does go on in the background that we do not see on a day to day basis. I can well imagine the situations you describe.

Such a shame though, that when they do meet a man who is willing to help out as part of a relationship, the women do turn greedy. We can understand why they do, if we give it a little thought. If some of the women also gave it some thought they would then see they are killing the Goose.

Hard to find a balance in many cases. Even harder though for the single mothers who are looking at spending the rest of their lives working to keep parents happy, children happy and a roof over their heads. Similar the the UK in the late 1800's and early 1900's. Top n Tail in one bed or a straw mattress on the floor. Crowded housing for those that had it and so much more.

I am amazed at how many of these single mothers who have had a good sin-sod who now have nothing to their name. Some who have only been married a couple of years too before the husband walks away. Maybe they never got to see any of the cash in the first place. Or whatever.

Let us hope that the scenario changes for the better for them in the future, though that is doubtful with the powers that be not seeming to care in their plight at all.

[cognos]

It is changing for the better, cognos, but all change takes time. I've seen remarkable changes for the better in my life time. 50 years ago, single women with children were looked down upon. That is not the case today, except for a few judgemental people. Same with Homosexuality. It was considered a sin 30 years ago and anyone who was gay kept it quiet. Now, people can be openly gay with only a portion of the population taking offence.

But, with change comes other problems. Women who SAID they want liberation are now finding they have to compete honestly with men. Many women want former rules and regulations changed so they can compete. That has happened in former firemen and police requirements where the physical standards have been lowered. Women get the better of most divorce settlements because the courts are using old fashioned thinking, but that is slowly changing. Where indifidelity was once a topic for divorce settlements it's no longer the case.

Ian, I always enjoy your posts.. there have to be S me Thai woman who are old fashioned (not old!) and conservative during the courtship, and they want the man to be the leader in general..I am positive I did not marry the last one .. That is all well and good (leading) as long as the man is kind, caring, considerate, generous and loving towards his wife. I told her that was fine (as I am sort of a natural leader: captain of hockey teams, coach of hockey teams,etc..), but then told her I would like her to be the leader too sometimes, and she beamed from ear to ear. I guess we are evolving slowly..so slowly...

[BigSnake]

Unfair, lies maybe but the reason, kinda like what you see is what you believe, now having said that in most western countries how many 20 something young women will you see hold hands and all but making out in public with a 60 year old or even older, not many, true these are bar girls and it a way they make a living for themself, the children the Thai husband left behind and other family member, however the key word here is PERCEPTION Nuff said

[toret]

Too bad most foreigners are taken (or drawn) directly to the bar scene.

Any country judged by its' pimps and hookers will get a bad standing.

For me the eye-opener was when I started to study in BKK, met other kinds of people and also got a totally different respect from thais.

For let us face it, the drunk farang with shorts and Singha wife-beater is also their generalisation of us.

[nakachalet]

this response is addressed to sanook2me's and cognos'

so it is imperceptive to 'bash farang women' in thaivisa?

and it is proper to belittle thai women or any other feminines or nationalities in thaivisa?

just wonder, how many single/married farangs who live here and/or have families here would

agree with your discriminative point of view?

[almanz]

"Men are gold, women are silence, silence is gold, men are women and women are men"

Thailand is a land of myths.........but so is every other country. "The myth about Thai women" is just that, a myth.

In terms of sex or promiscuity, I do not see Thai women as significantly different from most non-Thai women.

There are some cultural differences (to be expected), but ultimately they want the same thing from men: SECURITY.

Living in a small town, I see what shy, innocent girls go through before they become Pattaya girls.

They are almost always pushed into that life because of poverty......often they come from families where alcoholism and violent behavior is the norm.

In Thailand men are seen as important only to the extent that they have power. Power = money = security.

If you are a male and do not have that, females look elsewhere for it (e.g., the expat farang with money).

They myth, I think, comes from males and not females. Part of it is associated with the tendency to always see the grass as being greener on the other side of the fence.

Thai females, to the best of my knowledge (and maybe one will comment), tend to think Japanese men are sexy. Why? I have no idea.

So, they too have their own set of myths.

yes . it's too true ...

[F1fanatic]

I realise that many people are sick of hearing about the poor Thai girl who is forced into bar work out of poverty, but, at the same time, im getting a bit tired of hearing the polar opposite..that its out of greed. Wheres the middle line? I really do not know a huge amount on the subject of why a girl gets involved in that scene, but i have read up some on it. Various stories, various reasons. One middle ground reason (which isnt uncommon) is that a young girl with very little financially makes a poor choice at a young age and ends up pregnant. (Or worse scenario is sexually assaulted/raped in her home town.) Choices are, work your ass off, be given no respect, have trouble feeding and clothing your baby, and basically have limited choices. Or, after you notice that another girl suddenly has a lot of cash, nice things, can dress up her kiddy and give her family cash, go with her and make more money than you can dream of. Probably with no real idea what she is letting herself in for, but figures anything is better than getting no respect, having no life, and probably being taken advantage of in her home town (ie: i read a story where shockingly a young girls older brother would pimp out his sister to his friends). Maybe she figures that she will just work for a while, save up, then make her own small business ..etc ..but, somewhere down the line she started drinking/doing drugs in order to get through what she has to do. So then she has to pay for a drug habit and probably ends up with some dodgy boyfriend along the line too. So, ends up being sucked up in the industry long term to pay off her drink/drugs habit, the bf's habit, sending money home, etc. Yes, she wants more nice things..but i guess she figures 'fk it..im screwed already, may as well make as much, get as much, as i possibly can".

Yes, we all sympathise and feel sorry for a poor woman looking to find her way out of poverty.

The sympathy tends to be lost when they show they have no morals or respect whatsoever and will chase ANYONE (including married men) hoping to improve their own situation, and not caring whether this will harm anyone else.

Its time to stop worrying about the 'plight' of women working in bars and start worrying about stopping the seemingly endless flow of women to this degrading occupation.

[cognos]

Unfair, lies maybe but the reason, kinda like what you see is what you believe, now having said that in most western countries how many 20 something young women will you see hold hands and all but making out in public with a 60 year old or even older, not many, true these are bar girls and it a way they make a living for themself, the children the Thai husband left behind and other family member, however the key word here is PERCEPTION Nuff said

BigSnake, you nailed it..people's perceptions become their reality, even if the perception is not accurate.. It gets so bad in the west sometimes..that some woman have reported on Thai Visa in the past that are a little reluctant to admit they are Thai, as some ignorant people will start to judge them in an unfair light..

[IanForbes]

Yes, we all sympathise and feel sorry for a poor woman looking to find her way out of poverty.

The sympathy tends to be lost when they show they have no morals or respect whatsoever and will chase ANYONE (including married men) hoping to improve their own situation, and not caring whether this will harm anyone else.

Its time to stop worrying about the 'plight' of women working in bars and start worrying about stopping the seemingly endless flow of women to this degrading occupation.

Yes, the bar scene will harden any woman, but so will a lot of marriages harden men towards women. I know dozens of nice, middle aged men (and older) who never did anything wrong, and worked at a boring job for years to provide for their families, but then their wives got the 40 year itch and thought they could do better, or wanted to try out their tennis coach. Then, the marriage breaks up and the guy is left wondering what happened. Don't tell me it's always the men that are fooling around because it just ain't so. In both of my marriages I never played around, but I sure had lots of opportunities with other married women who made it quite plain that they wanted to. I know all about the games that people play and try and rationalize. It happens everywhere in educated countries.

How to improve the lives of young people everywhere is another story entirely. It all starts with improving parenting and giving young people the confidence to stand alone. That only begins by improving the economy of the country they live in and then providing an education so people can climb out of poverty.

[ajarnmark]

Thai females, to the best of my knowledge (and maybe one will comment), tend to think Japanese men are sexy. Why? I have no idea.

Clean, with Asian looks and Asian manners and they pay too much. What's not to like?

Stop going to places where women think in this way, it shows u should seriously think of changing place where you hang around after sunset.

[ajarnmark]

Statistics show most Thai youngsters lose their virginity at the same age as in Western countries. They are having sex, they are just more secretive about it. Would say the average Thai woman will not "frequently" save sex until marriage.

and like any other sensible men in this world, u should not believe in statistics.....

stats showed in 2003 that Iraq should be invaded....

stats showed in 2007/8 that Bush was wrong...

which stats u should believe in then?

[F1fanatic]

Yes, we all sympathise and feel sorry for a poor woman looking to find her way out of poverty.

The sympathy tends to be lost when they show they have no morals or respect whatsoever and will chase ANYONE (including married men) hoping to improve their own situation, and not caring whether this will harm anyone else.

Its time to stop worrying about the 'plight' of women working in bars and start worrying about stopping the seemingly endless flow of women to this degrading occupation.

Yes, the bar scene will harden any woman, but so will a lot of marriages harden men towards women. I know dozens of nice, middle aged men (and older) who never did anything wrong, and worked at a boring job for years to provide for their families, but then their wives got the 40 year itch and thought they could do better, or wanted to try out their tennis coach. Then, the marriage breaks up and the guy is left wondering what happened. Don't tell me it's always the men that are fooling around because it just ain't so. In both of my marriages I never played around, but I sure had lots of opportunities with other married women who made it quite plain that they wanted to. I know all about the games that people play and try and rationalize. It happens everywhere in educated countries.

How to improve the lives of young people everywhere is another story entirely. It all starts with improving parenting and giving young people the confidence to stand alone. That only begins by improving the economy of the country they live in and then providing an education so people can climb out of poverty.

OK, I take your word for it although its not my experience (or my friends).

The difference is that although many Western men or women in their own country may embark on extra-marital affairs, they didn't set out to hook someone/anyone purely for their money, regardless of whether they were married or not.

Its unfortunate, but 'morality' really has no meaning to many poor people working in certain trades in this country. One starts out feeling sorry for them and ends up thinking they deserve each other!!

That is why Thailand has the reputation abroad that it does. Trying to deny it doesn't help!

[sbk]

Yes, the bar scene will harden any woman, but so will a lot of marriages harden men towards women. I know dozens of nice, middle aged men (and older) who never did anything wrong, and worked at a boring job for years to provide for their families, but then their wives got the 40 year itch and thought they could do better, or wanted to try out their tennis coach. Then, the marriage breaks up and the guy is left wondering what happened. Don't tell me it's always the men that are fooling around because it just ain't so. In both of my marriages I never played around, but I sure had lots of opportunities with other married women who made it quite plain that they wanted to. I know all about the games that people play and try and rationalize. It happens everywhere in educated countries.

.

You know, Ian, my dad taught me something very important many years ago when discussing how other people's relationships work. "You never know whats going on in another man's head or in another man's bed" Suggest you step back from judging what you cannot possibly know. You have no idea why these women strayed, or why they felt the need to.

As for Thai women, frankly, they are just like Thai men, western women and western men. There are some exceptional ones, some awful ones and the rest are mostly in between. Life is not black and white and its interesting to see how many people feel the need to paint it that way.

[ajarnmark]

Thai females, to the best of my knowledge (and maybe one will comment), tend to think Japanese men are sexy. Why? I have no idea.

Clean, with Asian looks and Asian manners and they pay too much. What's not to like?

What's not to like?

Clean?? Have you been to many Japanese homes?

Well they are rude to women always walk through doors first etc. Perhaps Small man/ Napoleon complex?.....Smell like fish & have small...errrmm...........well.... the stores here use to sell condoms in different sizes...

Magnum...Large...Medium...small & last but not least oriental sizes. hmmm another Napoleon complex??

For condoms, have u ever seen it in oriental sizes?

Have u ever watched some oriental porno, probably these guys r bigger than u....

just if a man leaves before a woman, he is rude? what about white guys (farangs) involved in farang? is it so polite? remember that Austrian guy?

[cognos]

this response is addressed to sanook2me's and cognos'

so it is imperceptive to 'bash farang women' in thaivisa?

and it is proper to belittle thai women or any other feminines or nationalities in thaivisa?

just wonder, how many single/married farangs who live here and/or have families here would

agree with your discriminative point of view?

Please understand some of my closest and most beloved women in my life are farang...relatives..This post is NOT intended to bash farang women or anyone else for that matter. Farang women, ALL women are subject to the double sexual standard, and that is no good MR. LEK ( fictionous male name) We know it exists...as males, are we okay with the staus quo? I ain't okay with it..people always think they are helpless to make changes in society..WRONGO example:1. men could decide to level the field and call themselves slutss , rather than "Players" or "Operators"..2. they could stop bragging about their "conquests" so much.. ..we can come out of the dark ages if we want to..

[ajarnmark]

I have to agree with this.  Women are women the world over, (and men are men.)  Basically we all have the same drives, desires, and needs.  The cultural aspect of things tends to mask our outward face we put on things, but we still do the same things.  Even where the cultural mores are very stringent, people still are promiscuous.  The horrible recent video-taped example of the Taliban shooting a couple who were having sex outside of marriage shows that even where the punishment is so severe, people still act out their biological impulses.

As a vast, vast generalization, and I mean nothing derogatory to anyone here, when a Norwegian woman wants to sleep with a man, she just asks if the man wants to.  An American just does it without saying anything.  And  Thai does it with the worried preface of "Thai women don't do this."  All three women are doing the same thing, but cultural mores predicate how each woman acts and feels as she does it.

Excellent post. Totally agree. Btw, I read a few days ago (sorry, forgot the source) that nowadays the average age for Thai women to lose their virginity is 17 yrs. I know in Holland it is around 15 yrs. Still a small gap, but with the westernization of Thailand, this gap is getting smaller.

Average has never been a good measure for anything.... it provides an approximation and never a true result

assuming if 20 women lose their virginity at the age of 30 (on their wedding nights) and 30 women lose it at the age of 14 (being from isaan/married at young age etc.) then the average is distorted very significantly.

What do u think?

[ajarnmark]

There are two reasons for the western portrayal of Thai women as being generally 'loose'.

1. There is absolutely no doubt that Thailand has one of the highest proportions of sex workers in the world. The OP quotes a figure of 0.2% which might be slightly below the global average. However, according to Wikipedia a 2004 estimate by Dr. Nitet Tinnakul from Chulalongkorn University gives a total of 2.8 million sex workers in Thailand, including 2 million women, 20,000 adult males and 800,000 minors under the age of 18 - which is closer to 10% of females. Now sex workers get through a lot of guys - according to one survey an average of 694 a year (David M. Buss - Evolution Of Desire) on which basis the average guy would be pretty tired without the other 90% of the remaining female population getting any sex at all.

2. Western press is simply reflecting western experience which is that the 10% of females working as sex workers are basically shunned by the local population as permanent partners but are welcomed by foreigners while to a greater or lesser extent the opposite is true of the other 90%. This would have been even more stereotypical say 15 years ago. In any case, the fact that you can get laid every night, whether for money or hot water and Truevisions, leaves an impression.

and u think u can believe in wikipedia?

[IanForbes]

You know, Ian, my dad taught me something very important many years ago when discussing how other people's relationships work. "You never know whats going on in another man's head or in another man's bed" Suggest you step back from judging what you cannot possibly know. You have no idea why these women strayed, or why they felt the need to.

As for Thai women, frankly, they are just like Thai men, western women and western men. There are some exceptional ones, some awful ones and the rest are mostly in between. Life is not black and white and its interesting to see how many people feel the need to paint it that way.

You and I think very much alike with that statement, sbk. But, I NEVER judge anyone. What they choose to do is their business until it affects me personally. I have no idea the problems that others face. I can only relate to my personal experiences. None of us can totally understand our partner's thoughts either and can only go by what they've told us. When you hear enough stories like I have, and truthfully compare them to personal experiences, you start to see a pattern and can come up with a pretty good idea of what is happening or has happened.

[cognos]

to SBK: You are right on, life is NOT black and white. The post is a generalization with black,white and infinite shades of grey. I am critical of the way some guys operate within the "alleged double sexual standard", however perhaps the whole thing is a figment of my imagination, maybe the world has evolved to the point where the old assumptions are irrelevant. Since I used to be a person that DID NOT help the situation by my actions (I was sometimes a sslut until I changed), I have come to believe that we CAN change our ways, and be more respectful towards women. Just because I have changed does NOT mean I am holier than thou..I just feel humble and know I was wrong the way I used to treat some women, so I was part of the problem, if indeed there was or is a double standard.