Thai Culture

[sanmiguellight]

I keep reading about this wonderful thingymijig called Thai Culture.

I'm English and up until sometime in the early 1990s never really used to hear this word used to describe much apart from Art and em ....... more art.

Now its banded about by all manner of people to describe pretty much everything, to make themselves IMO sound enlightened.

On the basis that being polite, eating food, working, wanting nice things in life and to be content are for most on this planet just part of their day to day lives what are the exclusive traits of Thai culture people on here keep refering to.

I will start the ball rolling with the extreme value of "keeping Face".

[sanook2me]

I keep reading about this wonderful thingymijig called Thai Culture.

I'm English and up until sometime in the early 1990s never really used to hear this word used to describe much apart from Art and em ....... more art.

Now its banded about by all manner of people to describe pretty much everything, to make themselves IMO sound enlightened.

On the basis that being polite, eating food, working, wanting nice things in life and to be content are for most on this planet just part of their day to day lives what are the exclusive traits of Thai culture people on here keep refering to.

I will start the ball rolling with the extreme value of "keeping Face".

Looking after family and making sure toothless chewing granny doesn't end up in a cr@ppy nursing home p1ssing the bed and been left to lie to in it while her savings are been chewed through by the council/government.

This is different compared to the UK and therfore part of Thai culture. Looking after all the family first!

[Plus]

I somewhat agree - there are great many things that are just traditions rather than "culture".

[givenall]

I somewhat agree - there are great many things that are just traditions rather than "culture".

Well I guess that is why the Thais do not have any interest in retirements, since they know they will be take care of by the kids. Unlike the Farangs, which their kids move on to their own life

[trashy]

Exactly, what is it?

[IanForbes]

With such a blending of western and eastern cultures today it is hard to define what is Thai culture.

Traditionally, in lower income families, the Thais have to pull together as a family for them succeed financially. Grand parents will look after the grand children and the parents of the children will find some sort of income that is shared with the family as a whole. Wealthy Thais will hire maids and servents to look after children while the head of the household takes care of the family business. Thais seem to have more respect for elderly people and hold them in higher esteem than do western cultures.

In our western society we try to educate our children so they can be financially self sufficient and look after their own children. Western families are not usually as tight knit as Thai families and very often they are quite fractured.

As a race, the Thais tend to be a little more religious and try to follow the teachings of Buddha. Western cultures are all over the map when it comes to religion.

But, these are just generalities as I've seen it. There are many exceptions to the rule.

[rgs2001uk]

With such a blending of western and eastern cultures today it is hard to define what is Thai culture.

Traditionally, in lower income families, the Thais have to pull together as a family for them succeed financially. Grand parents will look after the grand children and the parents of the children will find some sort of income that is shared with the family as a whole. Wealthy Thais will hire maids and servents to look after children while the head of the household takes care of the family business. Thais seem to have more respect for elderly people and hold them in higher esteem than do western cultures.

In our western society we try to educate our children so they can be financially self sufficient and look after their own children. Western families are not usually as tight knit as Thai families and very often they are quite fractured.

As a race, the Thais tend to be a little more religious and try to follow the teachings of Buddha. Western cultures are all over the map when it comes to religion.

But, these are just generalities as I've seen it. There are many exceptions to the rule.

Ah if only it were true, spirit houses, lucky amulets, sak yant etc etc.

[Garry9999]

Culture: is a shared, learned, symbolic system of values, beliefs and attitudes that shapes and influences perception and behavior -- an abstract "mental blueprint" or "mental code".

[bungy007]

Culture: is a shared, learned, symbolic system of values, beliefs and attitudes that shapes and influences perception and behavior -- an abstract "mental blueprint" or "mental code".

Saw a great example of the above form of Thai Culutre - shared, learned, symbolic system of values etc. Three Thai geezers each bought one of those lucky amulets that were selling quicker than tickets to observe Thaksin's first night in prison a few years ago. Under the influence of perception, they decided to check out how symbolic/abstract the mental blueprint was on the amullets' powers to protect the wearer from harm. You can see where this is going, I'm sure In the pursuit of 'learning' about their beliefs and values they lay down on some train tracks and waited to see what would happen Guess what! The clip on the news had the three bodies wrapped in white shrouds before being removed. Job done - they now know how truly symbolic Thai culture is

[Joints]

Thai culture is an idea that is in constant change.

[Moonrakers]

Much of Thai culture is an excuse for having done something wrong, or a reason to not have to do something that you don't want to do.

The rest is music and Buddha's and stuff.

[Oberkommando]

Thai Culture, What is it?

Mostly misappropriated from the Khmer.

Ar Khun Giran.

[LennyW]

Much of Thai culture is an excuse for having done something wrong, or a reason to not have to do something that you don't want to do.

The rest is music and Buddha's and stuff.

That sums it up nicely!!

[yabaaaa]

I keep reading about this wonderful thingymijig called Thai Culture.

I'm English and up until sometime in the early 1990s never really used to hear this word used to describe much apart from Art and em ....... more art.

Now its banded about by all manner of people to describe pretty much everything, to make themselves IMO sound enlightened.

On the basis that being polite, eating food, working, wanting nice things in life and to be content are for most on this planet just part of their day to day lives what are the exclusive traits of Thai culture people on here keep refering to.

I will start the ball rolling with the extreme value of "keeping Face".

Looking after family and making sure toothless chewing granny doesn't end up in a cr@ppy nursing home p1ssing the bed and been left to lie to in it while her savings are been chewed through by the council/government.

This is different compared to the UK and therfore part of Thai culture. Looking after all the family first!

I see so you mean all the family work hard to pay for the 1-2 members who are bone idle treat everyone else like sh*t do what they want borrow money off them and never give it back etc .......... part of the culture?

[yabaaaa]

Culture: is a shared, learned, symbolic system of values, beliefs and attitudes that shapes and influences perception and behavior -- an abstract "mental blueprint" or "mental code".

Yes .......... brainwashing.

[sanmiguellight]

Im disappointed that those who accuse others of not knowing about Thai culture and that tell us theyre immersed in Thai society havent been so vocal.

Could the Thai way of having to have fun whilst working or learning be classed as a part of their culture.

Or turning a blind eye to certain aspects of what others get up to if its in the greater good or it avoids conflict be?

[PeaceBlondie]

Just to remind us all, from the Forum Rules:

8) Not to post extremely negative views of Thailand or derogatory comments directed towards all Thais.

[Valjean]

A couple things I keep mind.

Most of us come from Low Context cultures, especially in contrast to the High Context Thai culture. This fundamental difference is a key reason for the difficulty in adjusting I think. Learn more at http://www.culture-at-work.com/highlow.html

In the west time is more linier, in the Buddhist east more circular.

I was listing to S.P. Somtow the Thai author, composer and professor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somtow) speak awhile back and he talked about the Thai (Buddhist) ability to hold two conflicting things as both true simultaneously – something we can’t do in the west. I thought that was very interesting.

Read my signature and that sums up a lot to my point of view. Many comments I see on Thai Visa are fish who haven’t discovered they are in the water.

[NaiGreg]

So think its fair to conclude 'Thai culture' has a large part in it [rape, molestation, selling girls into slavery]

Wow, dude ... what are you smoking? Are you aware of how women are regarded/treated in most non-Thai cultures? And I'm not just talking about the Arabs and Africans. And I'm not just talking about the "glass ceiling" in western corporate circles. Get real. You should be ashamed of your post. Are you drunk?

[LivinLOS]

I was listing to S.P. Somtow the Thai author, composer and professor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somtow) speak awhile back and he talked about the Thai (Buddhist) ability to hold two conflicting things as both true simultaneously – something we can’t do in the west. I thought that was very interesting.

I recently read 'Geography of Thought' on how asians and westerners perceive and think differently.. It also discussed reasons why analytical thought and discussion is not an asian trait and why absolute truth is less valued.. All interesting.. But the fact remains truth is not a relative term, it does not change depending on the perception of the viewer.. truth is an absolute, its the raw unvarnished fact. Truth is not a variable..

So from an applied logic perspective.. I am very curious for an example of what confliting truths you mean ??

[LivinLOS]

So think its fair to conclude 'Thai culture' has a large part in it [rape, molestation, selling girls into slavery]

Wow, dude ... what are you smoking? Are you aware of how women are regarded/treated in most non-Thai cultures? And I'm not just talking about the Arabs and Africans. And I'm not just talking about the "glass ceiling" in western corporate circles. Get real. You should be ashamed of your post. Are you drunk?

Yes I am aware of it.. And have lived all over the globe, including africa, arab countries, etc.. And never have I seen the level of pimping of thier daughters for material goods (not counting family hardship even, more just casual 'keep up with the joneses' purchases, khun paws whisky habit, etc) than I have in asia especially Thailand.. Sure it happens in PI and Cambo too but it would seem to me with far less pressure from the parents to do it.

[Garry9999]

Culture: is a shared, learned, symbolic system of values, beliefs and attitudes that shapes and influences perception and behavior -- an abstract "mental blueprint" or "mental code".

Saw a great example of the above form of Thai Culutre - shared, learned, symbolic system of values etc. Three Thai geezers each bought one of those lucky amulets that were selling quicker than tickets to observe Thaksin's first night in prison a few years ago. Under the influence of perception, they decided to check out how symbolic/abstract the mental blueprint was on the amullets' powers to protect the wearer from harm. You can see where this is going, I'm sure In the pursuit of 'learning' about their beliefs and values they lay down on some train tracks and waited to see what would happen Guess what! The clip on the news had the three bodies wrapped in white shrouds before being removed. Job done - they now know how truly symbolic Thai culture is

:D :D :D

[Valjean]

I was listing to S.P. Somtow the Thai author, composer and professor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somtow) speak awhile back and he talked about the Thai (Buddhist) ability to hold two conflicting things as both true simultaneously – something we can’t do in the west. I thought that was very interesting.

I recently read 'Geography of Thought' on how asians and westerners perceive and think differently.. It also discussed reasons why analytical thought and discussion is not an asian trait and why absolute truth is less valued.. All interesting.. But the fact remains truth is not a relative term, it does not change depending on the perception of the viewer.. truth is an absolute, its the raw unvarnished fact. Truth is not a variable..

So from an applied logic perspective.. I am very curious for an example of what confliting truths you mean ??

It hard for me to come up with an example because I can’t do it. I’m sure you can’t understand it using applied logic. It’s a frame of reference that doesn’t encompass another. You’re trying to get to True versus False binary distinction. That dog won’t hunt. (to use the American vernacular). I guess reading a lot of Buddhist teachings might give you a glimpse.

On a practical level it’s when your Thai counterpart just doesn’t see the clear logic of your thinking and frustrates you why they can’t see the situation like you deduce it. Because they don’t see like you do.

This is exactly the sort of thing that makes some comments here so superficial. It’s not just that you need to get out of your skin and see that there’s an alternative reality but that you can’t even grasp it (and vice versa) when you realize it exists.

[LivinLOS]

I was listing to S.P. Somtow the Thai author, composer and professor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somtow) speak awhile back and he talked about the Thai (Buddhist) ability to hold two conflicting things as both true simultaneously – something we can’t do in the west. I thought that was very interesting.

I recently read 'Geography of Thought' on how asians and westerners perceive and think differently.. It also discussed reasons why analytical thought and discussion is not an asian trait and why absolute truth is less valued.. All interesting.. But the fact remains truth is not a relative term, it does not change depending on the perception of the viewer.. truth is an absolute, its the raw unvarnished fact. Truth is not a variable..

So from an applied logic perspective.. I am very curious for an example of what confliting truths you mean ??

It hard for me to come up with an example because I can’t do it. I’m sure you can’t understand it using applied logic. It’s a frame of reference that doesn’t encompass another. You’re trying to get to True versus False binary distinction. That dog won’t hunt. (to use the American vernacular). I guess reading a lot of Buddhist teachings might give you a glimpse.

On a practical level it’s when your Thai counterpart just doesn’t see the clear logic of your thinking and frustrates you why they can’t see the situation like you deduce it. Because they don’t see like you do.

This is exactly the sort of thing that makes some comments here so superficial. It’s not just that you need to get out of your skin and see that there’s an alternative reality but that you can’t even grasp it (and vice versa) when you realize it exists.

You say there is a reality out there that I cant grasp.. I say there is no reality... While you try to bend it I say there is no sppon !!

While I agree about logic and deduction (and the mentioned book goes a long way to explaining why that is, and why logic / deduction / debate are traits from the greeks and Aristotelian thought) I strongly dissagree about truth. Its not 'that dog wont hunt' truth is an absolute, its not a relative or a variable. Truth is what it is !! It may have different perspectives but those do not change the fact.

And Thai culture of prizing harmony (and face) over truth holds them back in many many ways, and will contnue to do so. It may work in a village rice community but it doesnt put men on the moon.

I still await an example of conflicting truths outside of quantum theory (schrodingers cat springs to mind).

Edited June 18, 2009 by LivinLOS

[NaiGreg]

So think its fair to conclude 'Thai culture' has a large part in it [rape, molestation, selling girls into slavery]

Wow, dude ... what are you smoking? Are you aware of how women are regarded/treated in most non-Thai cultures? And I'm not just talking about the Arabs and Africans. And I'm not just talking about the "glass ceiling" in western corporate circles. Get real. You should be ashamed of your post. Are you drunk?

Yes I am aware of it.. And have lived all over the globe, including africa, arab countries, etc.. And never have I seen the level of pimping of thier daughters for material goods (not counting family hardship even, more just casual 'keep up with the joneses' purchases, khun paws whisky habit, etc) than I have in asia especially Thailand.. Sure it happens in PI and Cambo too but it would seem to me with far less pressure from the parents to do it.

The fact is there are more rape crisis centers and battered womens' shelters in Western lands than cases of "family pimping" here .. which naturally get a lot of oohs and ahs and rubber-necking from faux-travelers such as yourself. Get a grip. The opposite of what you postulate is true. The fact is that many Thai parents are more protective of their daughters than in the west. Okay, in Issan there is the occasional problem parent, but that is not the REAL Thailand is it.

Did you know that most Thai villages have "special ways" of dealing with perverts, lurkers and molesters. Always have. That keeps the official reporting levels down as much as those who might turn a blind eye towards such things. The "pervs" don't get "protection" from the legal system.

No, Mr. bigshot traveller, you don't know about that do you. And I KNOW you do not have daughters or you would be better informed.

Jeeze, Louise ... that was the worst post I have ever read on ThaiVisa.

[Valjean]

I was listing to S.P. Somtow the Thai author, composer and professor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somtow) speak awhile back and he talked about the Thai (Buddhist) ability to hold two conflicting things as both true simultaneously – something we can’t do in the west. I thought that was very interesting.

I recently read 'Geography of Thought' on how asians and westerners perceive and think differently.. It also discussed reasons why analytical thought and discussion is not an asian trait and why absolute truth is less valued.. All interesting.. But the fact remains truth is not a relative term, it does not change depending on the perception of the viewer.. truth is an absolute, its the raw unvarnished fact. Truth is not a variable..

So from an applied logic perspective.. I am very curious for an example of what confliting truths you mean ??

It hard for me to come up with an example because I can’t do it. I’m sure you can’t understand it using applied logic. It’s a frame of reference that doesn’t encompass another. You’re trying to get to True versus False binary distinction. That dog won’t hunt. (to use the American vernacular). I guess reading a lot of Buddhist teachings might give you a glimpse.

On a practical level it’s when your Thai counterpart just doesn’t see the clear logic of your thinking and frustrates you why they can’t see the situation like you deduce it. Because they don’t see like you do.

This is exactly the sort of thing that makes some comments here so superficial. It’s not just that you need to get out of your skin and see that there’s an alternative reality but that you can’t even grasp it (and vice versa) when you realize it exists.

You say there is a reality out there that I cant grasp.. I say there is no reality... While you try to bend it I say there is no sppon !!

While I agree about logic and deduction (and the mentioned book goes a long way to explaining why that is, and why logic / deduction / debate are traits from the greeks and Aristotelian thought) I strongly dissagree about truth. Its not 'that dog wont hunt' truth is an absolute, its not a relative or a variable. Truth is what it is !! It may have different perspectives but those do not change the fact.

And Thai culture of prizing harmony (and face) over truth holds them back in many many ways, and will contnue to do so. It may work in a village rice community but it doesnt put men on the moon.

I still await an example of conflicting truths outside of quantum theory (schrodingers cat springs to mind).

whatever...

[Garry9999]

I was listing to S.P. Somtow the Thai author, composer and professor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somtow) speak awhile back and he talked about the Thai (Buddhist) ability to hold two conflicting things as both true simultaneously – something we can’t do in the west. I thought that was very interesting.

I recently read 'Geography of Thought' on how asians and westerners perceive and think differently.. It also discussed reasons why analytical thought and discussion is not an asian trait and why absolute truth is less valued.. All interesting.. But the fact remains truth is not a relative term, it does not change depending on the perception of the viewer.. truth is an absolute, its the raw unvarnished fact. Truth is not a variable..

So from an applied logic perspective.. I am very curious for an example of what confliting truths you mean ??

It hard for me to come up with an example because I can’t do it. I’m sure you can’t understand it using applied logic. It’s a frame of reference that doesn’t encompass another. You’re trying to get to True versus False binary distinction. That dog won’t hunt. (to use the American vernacular). I guess reading a lot of Buddhist teachings might give you a glimpse.

On a practical level it’s when your Thai counterpart just doesn’t see the clear logic of your thinking and frustrates you why they can’t see the situation like you deduce it. Because they don’t see like you do.

This is exactly the sort of thing that makes some comments here so superficial. It’s not just that you need to get out of your skin and see that there’s an alternative reality but that you can’t even grasp it (and vice versa) when you realize it exists.

You say there is a reality out there that I cant grasp.. I say there is no reality... While you try to bend it I say there is no sppon !!

While I agree about logic and deduction (and the mentioned book goes a long way to explaining why that is, and why logic / deduction / debate are traits from the greeks and Aristotelian thought) I strongly dissagree about truth. Its not 'that dog wont hunt' truth is an absolute, its not a relative or a variable. Truth is what it is !! It may have different perspectives but those do not change the fact.

And Thai culture of prizing harmony (and face) over truth holds them back in many many ways, and will contnue to do so. It may work in a village rice community but it doesnt put men on the moon.

I still await an example of conflicting truths outside of quantum theory (schrodingers cat springs to mind).

An example of conflicting truths, have either of you tried to get you head around the Buddhist doctrine of Not-Self?

[LivinLOS]

The fact is there are more rape crisis centers and battered womens' shelters in Western lands than cases of "family pimping" here ..

Your either joking or in dreamland ???

which naturally get a lot of oohs and ahs and rubber-necking from faux-travelers such as yourself. Get a grip. The opposite of what you postulate is true. The fact is that many Thai parents are more protective of their daughters than in the west. Okay, in Issan there is the occasional problem parent, but that is not the REAL Thailand is it.

Yes more protective by selling them to a Thai brothel (my missus's mate) at 14.. Or the litany of family pressurized girls working on in the bars..

As to issan having either the 'occasional problem parent' or 'not being REAL thailand' I dont know which is more delusional.

Did you know that most Thai villages have "special ways" of dealing with perverts, lurkers and molesters. Always have. That keeps the official reporting levels down as much as those who might turn a blind eye towards such things. The "pervs" don't get "protection" from the legal system.

No, Mr. bigshot traveller, you don't know about that do you. And I KNOW you do not have daughters or you would be better informed.

Odd how as I say the first wife had an abusive uncle, and listed it as commonplace and not unsual, of course hidden from the public for face.. Shes not the only one wose told me similar sad stories, multiple women have.. as mentioned I got the email last night that my best mates wife just had her sister raped and left for dead, so 1 in the last 24h..

Jeeze, Louise ... that was the worst post I have ever read on ThaiVisa

Why ?? for speaking the truth ??

Over the last decade of living here the old Rose tinted glasses do take a beating..

[LivinLOS]

An example of conflicting truths, have either of you tried to get you head around the Buddhist doctrine of Not-Self?

No I am not familar with it.. Having just read the wikipedia page on Anatta I am faling to see how this fomr of percetion presents a duality of opposing truths ??

[Valjean]

[quote} An example of conflicting truths, have either of you tried to get you head around the Buddhist doctrine of Not-Self?

No. I'm just accepting that there's a different way(s) of looking at things that isn't about right or wrong or true and false or me and them or any other wall you want to put up. I'm very interested - and like to consider the posibilities but in the end I don't struggle against it.

The other night my wife was watching the "Miss Ladyboy Universe" contest on TV. She loves ladyboy shows. I asked her why and she said "they add color to life". That's a profond statement.