phazey Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Hi, I did'nt know if this should go into the teaching or family forums, so i'm sticking it here and letting the forum Deity's move if need be. Anyway, checking up on my 6 year old's school progress, I heard about 2 cases where he either did not do his work up to scratch, or was being a bit rowdy. Nothing too bad in my book as he's usually in the top tier when it comes to his learning. Anyways, the punishment for these two incidents was that he was "fined" 5 baht. This took me back a little - it's not the amount i'm concerned about, it's the method - He usually gets 20 baht to buy some snacks etc. Is this normal in Thai schools? He's in quite a good one - not an international school but none the less in the international curriculum course with foreign teachers etc. So my question is twofold. Is this the normal way of handing out "punishment" in Thai schools, compared to the extra homework/detention i was used to, and what are the thoughts of other parents in the forum ??? ./P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtoad Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Hi,I did'nt know if this should go into the teaching or family forums, so i'm sticking it here and letting the forum Deity's move if need be. Anyway, checking up on my 6 year old's school progress, I heard about 2 cases where he either did not do his work up to scratch, or was being a bit rowdy. Nothing too bad in my book as he's usually in the top tier when it comes to his learning. Anyways, the punishment for these two incidents was that he was "fined" 5 baht. This took me back a little - it's not the amount i'm concerned about, it's the method - He usually gets 20 baht to buy some snacks etc. Is this normal in Thai schools? He's in quite a good one - not an international school but none the less in the international curriculum course with foreign teachers etc. So my question is twofold. Is this the normal way of handing out "punishment" in Thai schools, compared to the extra homework/detention i was used to, and what are the thoughts of other parents in the forum ??? ./P I can't believe that a school would sanction such a punishment. Seems to me that a Teacher is looking for some extra lunch money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polecat Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Personally I think that's terrible. Haul-keel him, whip him, bogwash him... whatever, but I've never heard of fining. Start doing that and then you get into the whole "5 baht is more to some families than others" debate. At one school I taught at in Songkhla (way back when) they used to shave a chunk out of kids hair for being late. I thought that was hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonthaburial Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 seems a little backward, fining a 6 year old doesnt really "hurt him" as he doesnt earn the money its given and chances are the parent would reimburse the child. Thats just my 5 bahts worth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggsy Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 What would happen if he didn't have 5 Baht? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya_girl Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Well I don't have any children in Thai School, but reading this, sounds a bit strange. If it was me, I would go and ask the Head of the School, Where does the Money go to ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phazey Posted June 18, 2009 Author Share Posted June 18, 2009 Exactly what i am going to be doing next time i am over - appointment with the principal. After the amount of cash i throw at this place, i'm a little miffed to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiggy Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Surely this just breeds the Thai way of money will get you out of trouble at an early age.... Do bad pay money all is OK now. I would take this up with the teacher involved or the head to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonrakers Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 How could a money fine be an effective punishment against a 6 year old who is unlikely to understand money in the first place? sounds to me as though the teacher is short of the bus fare home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGotti Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 ROFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joskydive Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I'd have major misgivings with leaving my child at a school which implements those measures of discipline. From the youngest age they are being taught that money can buy them anything, so, if he wants to be naughty, undisciplined, cheeky, rude etc., it doesn't matter because he only has to pay his way out of it anyway and at the age of 6 years, I believe, that is when they are most influenced. For me, the school is actually teaching them that it is ok to do all these things as long as you have a bit of cash. The child then grows up with the same ideals and logic, because no-one has taught him otherwise, and this is when your problems will really start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redscouse Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 reduce the ammount fo the fines from the fee's you pay to the school, at least that will bget some dialogue. alternativley send fines to the school for perceived failings and see if they pay you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beacher Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 (edited) I'd have major misgivings with leaving my child at a school which implements those measures of discipline.From the youngest age they are being taught that money can buy them anything, so, if he wants to be naughty, undisciplined, cheeky, rude etc., it doesn't matter because he only has to pay his way out of it anyway and at the age of 6 years, I believe, that is when they are most influenced. For me, the school is actually teaching them that it is ok to do all these things as long as you have a bit of cash. The child then grows up with the same ideals and logic, because no-one has taught him otherwise, and this is when your problems will really start. Using money to buy their way out of trouble is what the teachers grew up with, what the teachers' parents grew up with, what the grandparents grew up with, and on and on. Therefore, it is so deeply ingrained in this society that it would take several generations to change that, and since Thais don't see anything wrong with it, a change in attitude isn't likely to ever happen. Edited June 18, 2009 by Beacher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGotti Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 when you put it like that, maybe it is a good lesson afterall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrjlh Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Maybe they have tried to discipline with the child and it hasn't worked and you just don't know about it. Maybe its their way of getting "your" attention. And now they have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I don't know if it's a common punishment, but it is one that is brought up fairly frequently. As a teacher, I've heard Thai Administrative staff suggest this as a punishment. Personally, I won't use it and don't let other teachers use it at our school. Eventually someone will ask where the money is and that's a can of worms I don't want to open. As an example, it was suggested we fine students one baht for speaking Thai in English class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverdie Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I'm not sure I agree with the suggestion that doing this is teaching him that with money he can go about life doing what he wants and just buy his way out of it. Seriously, this is life. Drive too fast, get a fine, park too long, get a fine. Fail to vote, take drugs, being vulgar in public, the list goes on you get a fine. Its just part of life. I don't think this is a good form of punishment if soley used but if used in conjuctions with other forms of punishment like beatings, forcing them to carry out remedial tasks such as rubbish collection, stringing them up on timber crosses and allowing school friends to throw rocks at them etc are all good, so I don't see why issueing them with fines should be out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonrakers Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Neverdie, you have opened a can of worms here. Brace yourself for posters slamming you for suggesting that children should be punished by torture and violence, you should know by now that many here don't understand the term 'tongue in cheek'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phazey Posted June 18, 2009 Author Share Posted June 18, 2009 Maybe they have tried to discipline with the child and it hasn't worked and you just don't know about it. Maybe its their way of getting "your" attention. And now they have it. Absolutely not, and i can tell by his grades. One of the fines was during his English class where be spoke Thai to a friend and the teacher overheard. Anyway it's not the point of this topic to declare he's a bad egg or not, it's simply the principle of the punishment i brought to the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeaceBlondie Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Transferred to teaching forum, more or less at OP's request - subject to sub-forum rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtoad Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I'm not sure I agree with the suggestion that doing this is teaching him that with money he can go about life doing what he wants and just buy his way out of it.Seriously, this is life. Drive too fast, get a fine, park too long, get a fine. Fail to vote, take drugs, being vulgar in public, the list goes on you get a fine. Its just part of life. I don't think this is a good form of punishment if soley used but if used in conjuctions with other forms of punishment like beatings, forcing them to carry out remedial tasks such as rubbish collection, stringing them up on timber crosses and allowing school friends to throw rocks at them etc are all good, so I don't see why issueing them with fines should be out. As always, Neverdie makes a spot on statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geckos Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I have a 6 year old Daughter in school and by NO MEANS WOULD I LET THEM GET AWAY WITH THAT !!!! I would put it this way spit back the 5 Bath or spit back a TOOTH !!!!!!!! Up to them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverdie Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Neverdie, you have opened a can of worms here.Brace yourself for posters slamming you for suggesting that children should be punished by torture and violence, you should know by now that many here don't understand the term 'tongue in cheek'. I'm not sure I agree with the suggestion that doing this is teaching him that with money he can go about life doing what he wants and just buy his way out of it.Seriously, this is life. Drive too fast, get a fine, park too long, get a fine. Fail to vote, take drugs, being vulgar in public, the list goes on you get a fine. Its just part of life. I don't think this is a good form of punishment if soley used but if used in conjuctions with other forms of punishment like beatings, forcing them to carry out remedial tasks such as rubbish collection, stringing them up on timber crosses and allowing school friends to throw rocks at them etc are all good, so I don't see why issueing them with fines should be out. As always, Neverdie makes a spot on statement. Hi Rakers, Yeah I was expecting that, its like water of a ducks back. I remember a topic not so long ago that got really heated over the disipline thing & thais smacking children. But on a serious note, being a responsible parent & teacher involves a whole range of techniques for teaching children right from wrong, something which is extremely important. Just standing in the corner screaming "No" & allowing the behaviour to continue, isnt the way. We have many tools available to us to teach our children, we should utilise as many as possible, the first and most important one is to verbally explain to the children why something is right or wrong & going from there. Torture and voilence, dam_n I don't remember mentioning the thumb screws . Mr Toad, THANKYOU for your kind words, I know Im a little 'out there' but I can't help myself, im in good company Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joskydive Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I'd have major misgivings with leaving my child at a school which implements those measures of discipline.From the youngest age they are being taught that money can buy them anything, so, if he wants to be naughty, undisciplined, cheeky, rude etc., it doesn't matter because he only has to pay his way out of it anyway and at the age of 6 years, I believe, that is when they are most influenced. For me, the school is actually teaching them that it is ok to do all these things as long as you have a bit of cash. The child then grows up with the same ideals and logic, because no-one has taught him otherwise, and this is when your problems will really start. Using money to buy their way out of trouble is what the teachers grew up with, what the teachers' parents grew up with, what the grandparents grew up with, and on and on. Therefore, it is so deeply ingrained in this society that it would take several generations to change that, and since Thais don't see anything wrong with it, a change in attitude isn't likely to ever happen. You right, of course, however, this parent has stated his doesn't want this happening to his child and when others start following suit the school is going to have to start questioning and addressing what they are doing wrong when they have fewer students left to teach. At the end of the day these schools take money from the parents to teach their children. They are a business and when there is less money going into the coffers every term questions are undoubtedly going to be asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garro Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Personally I think that's terrible. Haul-keel him, whip him, bogwash him... whatever, but I've never heard of fining. Start doing that and then you get into the whole "5 baht is more to some families than others" debate. At one school I taught at in Songkhla (way back when) they used to shave a chunk out of kids hair for being late. I thought that was hilarious. The usual reason for taking a chunk out of students hair is that it is too long and the missing chunk is encouragement for him to get it cut. This is common practice all over Thailand. I have never seen this done for students being late though. I have never heard of students needing to pay fines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrry Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 ]The usual reason for taking a chunk out of students hair is that it is too long and the missing chunk is encouragement for him to get it cut. This is common practice all over Thailand. I have never seen this done for students being late though. . Is this why so many at the Thai Visa party had no hair. Were the always late for school or had their hair too long? Seriously fining although I do no agree with it is probably one of the lesser punisments in schools. Shaming, belittleing and isolating can be much more damaging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeaceBlondie Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 The three big scools where I taught did not have fines. Hair too long - cut out a chunk. Too short - shame the girl. Public shame must be a Buddhist trait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsprtliving Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Sounds like a very unethical form of punishment to give a 6 year old. Children at that age are just barely starting to understand the concept of money, so to use this, as a form of punishment seems highly inappropriate. You said there were foreign teachers at the school? Is this the action of a foreign or Thai teacher? Not that it matters either way as far as the punishment goes, but this seems like it might be based on trying to humiliate the child in front of their peers…which I’ve witnessed Thai teachers doing on some occasions. I'd have some very strong words with the Head regarding this system of punishment. Where you informed up front what sort of disciplinary policy the school had in place, or did they just spring this on students/parents suddenly without warning? Seems like highly unprofessional behavior and practice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texpat Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 This thread is hilarious. It's quintessential Thai values clashing with western values. Taking candy from a baby is likely perfectly acceptable here too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ijustwannateach Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I've heard of this happening in schools before. The problem is that in many schools, since the government literally took the 'stick' away by banning corporal punishment (which was not a bad thing - the ban, I mean) they did not replace it with any other effective, consistent system (like detentions/suspensions/real failures). The problem is exacerbated in private schools where the schools don't want to make the parents upset no matter what. Of course, it's all bad for the children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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