Thai Workers Found Living In Goose Cages

[george]

Thai workers found living in goose cages

ISRAEL: -- Immigration Police officers involved yesterday in a pre-dawn raid on a goose farm on Moshav Ben Zakai were horrified to discover 14 Thai workers living in cages designed for geese. The cages, located just meters from an open sewer, had apparently been home to the workers for the past several months. "They were living like animals," said one shocked officer. "Poultry is usually kept in better conditions," he added.

The raid was launched after the Immigration Police received an anonymous tip-off that the farm was employing illegal foreign workers.

In the 120 meters of cages, the officers found mainly geese and the occasional rat. But in one cage, the last section of the longest of the cages, they found the 14 workers asleep on filthy mattresses.

"The cages are very long and the workers were asleep in one 20-meter section," said Chief Superintendent David Mondani, the head of the Immigration Police's central division. "The cage was raised slightly off the ground, around half a meter, and directly underneath was a gutter carrying the geese's excrement. There was no roof to speak of, just a flimsy asbestos covering."

During the months that the workers were employed at the farm, they ate their meals inside the pens, watched television during their free hours and, even during the recent cold snap, slept inside the cages.

"At first we looked for the workers inside one of the buildings, but found nothing. We then searched the sheds, and we were shocked to find the workers sleeping there. They were very scared when we woke them," Mondani added.

A preliminary investigation found none of the 14 workers had valid permits, and the Immigration Authority suspects that they were employed by the same farm where they were found sleeping. The Immigration Authority plans to deport some of the workers, while others will be granted work permits and found alternative places of employment.

Immigration Authority sources said yesterday that the workers apparently fled from their previous employer and found shelter in the goose farm. "It would appear that their boss took advantage of their dire situation and kept them in such appalling conditions."

The owner of the goose farm, a 52-year-old resident of Ben Zakai, and his 30-year-old son were arrested yesterday. They will appear today at the Ramle Magistrate's Court for a remand hearing. They are suspected of exploitation and illegally employing foreign workers.

The suspects, who arrived at the Ramle police station for questioning in an expensive BMW jeep, deny all the charges against them. Indeed, they deny all knowledge of the 14 Thai workers. According to Mondani, however, there is evidence linking the two to the workers.

-- haaretz.com, Israel, 2005-02-16

[snoophound]

AHH the israelites real god MAMMON!!

Thai workers found living in goose cages 

ISRAEL: -- Immigration Police officers involved yesterday in a pre-dawn raid on a goose farm on Moshav Ben Zakai were horrified to discover 14 Thai workers living in cages designed for geese. The cages, located just meters from an open sewer, had apparently been home to the workers for the past several months. "They were living like animals," said one shocked officer. "Poultry is usually kept in better conditions," he added.

The raid was launched after the Immigration Police received an anonymous tip-off that the farm was employing illegal foreign workers.

In the 120 meters of cages, the officers found mainly geese and the occasional rat. But in one cage, the last section of the longest of the cages, they found the 14 workers asleep on filthy mattresses.

"The cages are very long and the workers were asleep in one 20-meter section," said Chief Superintendent David Mondani, the head of the Immigration Police's central division. "The cage was raised slightly off the ground, around half a meter, and directly underneath was a gutter carrying the geese's excrement. There was no roof to speak of, just a flimsy asbestos covering."

During the months that the workers were employed at the farm, they ate their meals inside the pens, watched television during their free hours and, even during the recent cold snap, slept inside the cages.

"At first we looked for the workers inside one of the buildings, but found nothing. We then searched the sheds, and we were shocked to find the workers sleeping there. They were very scared when we woke them," Mondani added.

A preliminary investigation found none of the 14 workers had valid permits, and the Immigration Authority suspects that they were employed by the same farm where they were found sleeping. The Immigration Authority plans to deport some of the workers, while others will be granted work permits and found alternative places of employment.

Immigration Authority sources said yesterday that the workers apparently fled from their previous employer and found shelter in the goose farm. "It would appear that their boss took advantage of their dire situation and kept them in such appalling conditions."

The owner of the goose farm, a 52-year-old resident of Ben Zakai, and his 30-year-old son were arrested yesterday. They will appear today at the Ramle Magistrate's Court for a remand hearing. They are suspected of exploitation and illegally employing foreign workers.

The suspects, who arrived at the Ramle police station for questioning in an expensive BMW jeep, deny all the charges against them. Indeed, they deny all knowledge of the 14 Thai workers. According to Mondani, however, there is evidence linking the two to the workers.

-- haaretz.com, Israel,  2005-02-16

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[drummer]

AHH the israelites real god MAMMON!!

Uncalled for, shortsighted and ignorant comment. Like you don't find that anywhere else.

[Sphere]

AHH the israelites real god MAMMON!!

Uncalled for, shortsighted and ignorant comment. Like you don't find that anywhere else.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Precisely!

Have you ever wondered how Burmese or other migrant workers are treated here?

[toastwars]

AHH the israelites real god MAMMON!!

Uncalled for, shortsighted and ignorant comment. Like you don't find that anywhere else.

yeah right!! Like the Isrealis are soooooo virtuous, famed for treating people with respect and dignity....don't make me laugh

[bina]

next time why dont you just talk to me; i'm the token israeli on the forum...

BTW, it was on the israeli news but not in the news papers since i keep track of this stuff, as i help out in KAV L'OVED a ngo migrant worker association that provides legal etc. service.... i may become a translator for helping them out (no too many isralis interested in speaking thai so i guess my knowlege of thai and the worker culture here is more than most here.. although there is an israeli (retired) prfessor in bangkok (is he readings this?) who specializes in this area...

compared to lots and lots of places i've seen around here (israel) the guys here (my kibbutz) live in a five star hotel but have seen and heard about many good employers and living areas also.... actually checked my map, i've driven thru ben zakai (they are tripolitan i.e. eastern jews so dont want to start ethnic slurring here but they themselves are a fairly less well to do, uneducated and rather religious boorish group where oriental goyim (non jews) are seen as the same as animals ) to an other moshav to see thai workers who lived in a cow shed wiht no blankets etc....

i;ve had many of the 'ethnically eastern types (morrocan iraq etc jews make comments jabout my workers as 'animals'....

i also print these articles out and read them to the group here which includes guys that come here for weekends from their moshavim in the area, since the best house is here (satellite thai tv, dvd, lots of food, large rooms, etc... and decent bosses, including me:) )

also, my thai friend in america doesnt have such wonderful conditions either as a migrant worker

and i notice a group of building workers in ban chiang museaum living in plastic sheeting behind the museum (looked like hill tribe people or something, my thai hosts rushed me past when i asked about them) so dont get holy moly about any thing.... at least i'm involved and dont just talk about how horrible conditions are etc etc....but am working to improve them....

just my long two cents as the token israeli/american here

[bina]

i want to take this chance and say that if there are any of you who have brothers in law etc working in israel in the jerusalem surroundings:

ramat raziel, tzuba, maale hamisha, neve ilan, mezceret batia, revedim and that area (most thai in the smaller moshavim know where these places are) they can get in contact with me if they have problems also ein habasor and the moshavim near netivot....... we wrote flyers for thai workers in thai and i hand them out when i go where there are thai, but they are shy dont want to rock the boat or are afraid of all authorities.... we have a hotline w/ a thai volunteer and an other woman minister fluent in thai who can help, but the people have to want to come forward and for the most part they dont want to... unlike the filapino workers who are very vocal as are the romanians, nigerians etc...so u can pm me and i can give the phone numbers if needed, or the name of the moshav and then someone goes out to see them.... we also help if medical treatment is needed etc.... and clothing etc....

bina

[aaaaaa]

yeah, bina - keep it up !

israelis even on the moon are israelis....

but so are thais I guess - although are there goose cages ?

[2 satang]

During my earlier travels in the east, I was really disgusted at the housing conditions of many Pakistanis and Indians in the gulf states, Saudi, Emirates and Kuwait, upto 15-20 guys living in old 20' containers, boiling in daytime, freezing at night....... and no hygiene of course. All to save some satang to send home to the family. Capitalism at its best.

Dont judge, its the same all over the world.

just my 2 satang

Edited February 17, 2005 by 2 satang

[daxbr]

Without reading the story, I knew there is only one place it can happen. Luckily they were Thais, otherwise they would call them terrorists.

[bina]

without reading the story, how can u bother to reply, and without reading the thread responses how can u make such a dumb comment....

bina

[joe beets]

Just a shout out to bina -

Always do the right thing.

It sounds like you are doing the right thing.

As the "token Israeli," it is refreshing to read your take on these and other matters.

I really appreciate your being here.

You mentioned that the story was in the news but not the papers.

Odd that, but that's not my question.

How is the story playing?

What is the reaction?

Is anyone trying to defend this behavior?

Edited February 19, 2005 by joe beets

[bina]

actually it appeared in Ha aretz newspaper which is the 'intellectual ' newspaper anf very left wing; we get the ma'ariv cause my kids like the fashion etc magazines.. not quite a tabloid but not exactly high analysis reading material;

people here all mentioned it to me as they know my connection to the thai workers; other than that, every one is in their own little world of worrying at the moment about the future of our kibbutz (we are voting on structural changes that will affect the old timers, and our kids futures)..... i dont live in the city so dont know anyone really politically active and my daughter is at the save the whales stage now; in other words, it just got passed on to the 'old news' category w/most people or comments like " ignorant mizrahim (i.e. morrocan, yemen, tipoli etc people, a majority of moshavnikim, and also ususally more religious and right wing than kibbutznikim and therefore less accepting to 'outsiders that have slanty eyes and probably eat dogs and other unkosher foods....) NOT MY OPINION SO DONT MISREAD THE POST PLEASE.

every few weeks there is a story about this stuff; recently there was a fire in a outdoor storage area near a kibbutz (never named in the news); 16 thai workers wree found living in the wooden containers they almost got burned down, they had no heaters, rain came in etc.... of course no visas also... this was on the news and people here on my kibbutz gave themselves a pat on the back for 'with us this could never happen' ; but people also ignore just like i saw in thailand w/the burmese workers, or in the states what my father tells me about the mexican laboureres in tucson (my father works the sonoran desert as vlunteer) that die in the desert etc...

unfortunately, at the moment, the big mess in the 'move the people out of the territories' hs all the headlines and worries of the people....

thanx for the cyber support

[daxbr]

without reading the story, how can u bother to reply, and without reading the thread responses how can u make such a dumb comment....

bina

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not responding to your personal attack but responding to the subject at hand: This is not the first time it happens. A few years ago, there were several very gruesome Bangkok Post stories about mistreatment of Thai migrant laborers in Israel. A that time, Chuan government seriously considered suspending sending Thai workers there. Hope they would because Israel today is more racist country than South Africa ever been. There are numerous blatantly racist laws on books not to mention every day attitude.

In fairness, Haaretz is one of the best papers with courage to expose such incidents not only in reference to Thais but also to Palestinians.

[bina]

go back and read my original postings; i was responding to the idiot that also didnt bother to read the beginning of the threads....and not to the article, and second, ha'aretz is left wing and politically active, the ma'ariv is getting close to tabloid, but is the one i get (kids want the sports/fashion junk)

now to the article itself; i am involved w/kav l'oved (a migrant worker's organizatin in israel w/speciality in thai workers) but actually, i can tell you that here in general seems to be better than in the states; a friend of mine is there in the states, and reports to me that although the living situation is maybe better than some moshavim here, he cant go anywhere, no bus service, they dont meet other thai workers (in israeli they travel a lot in to the large cities and from moshav to maoshav for weekend visits), in the states he tried to buy a few beers, was asked for passport, they only have a copy, so the sales guy refuse to sell it to him and he complains bitterly that he wants to come back here... he has a half million baht debt w/land morgtaged to the bank and has yet to work for more than a few weeks at a time; more time is spent travelling to the orchards etc w/o pay (2 hours going two hours back, when he was in washington state picking apples); lots of non work days i.e. no pay; deductions frm salary for every ittle 'infringement' (dirty room etc, the boss told him, taxes etc) and visa problems that were promised but not fixed... there is no way he will make back what he spent to go there...and he sees no way out...

while in israel, he was able to build his mother a house, pay doctor bills, and support other family members; he could travel on fri/sat... got overtime, presents on the jewish holidays, etc... maybe our kibbutz is more 'enlightened' than others, but there are lots and lots of good bosses here, that build up personal relationships.... we are a small country and people/attitudes are talked about and word gets around quickly...i know of thai workers that have been here 10 years (change names on passport) because the employer is 'jai di' even if the pay is less or there are less hours, they also can legally drive tractors or the employer's car for work, etc... havent heard about that yet from my friend and the 140 other thai men with him.... this is not to say there are really bad employers etc but these are reports from a small small country that is the size of one state in the U.S.... imagine what exposees u could do in all the states together for migrant workers (my father worked a long time ago for the HHS dept (health and human services) and i grew up hearing about the fate of migrant workers; he reports to me now about the migrant workers in arizona and the dead mexicans in the desert....

as for racist, come visit and see before u decide... i grew up across the street form neo nazis and spent most of my teenage years dealing w/ dumb racist comments in maryland just on the mason/dixon line...

i think that people here are racist in general but not in indiviual aspects: i may even be like that but that is a definately non thailand oriented post and i hate politics soooooo.........

lastly, i t was my understanding that the 'real' reason the gov;t didnt want thai to come here was the 'money' aspect... who had control and ownership of the manpower companies that are the main exploiters of the mostly land rich, money poor thai farmers looking to make it rich in an other country..... from what i can see, i dont think the thai gov't gives two figs for the migrant workers here for the most part or they would first do something about the inflated interest rates on the loans these people take against their land; and also control the b___sh__ that the manpower companies tell them and string them along, even for 7 months, waiting for visas, after taking half payment which sits in the bank and earns good interest in the mean time, and then telling the poor guy, no visa try again in few months but no money back sorry....etc...

and maybe also send reps to the jail in nazereth where the thai workers get taken when arrested w/o visas etc instead of sitting there for three/four months until someone notices that they have disappeared.....

or the thai reps here (the translators of the companies) that tell the workers :u dont like the conditions, shut up or ship out home....:

[Pattaya_Fox]

Thai workers found living in goose cages 

ISRAEL: -- Immigration Police officers involved yesterday in a pre-dawn raid on a goose farm on Moshav Ben Zakai were horrified to discover 14 Thai workers living in cages designed for geese. The cages, located just meters from an open sewer, had apparently been home to the workers for the past several months. "They were living like animals," said one shocked officer. "Poultry is usually kept in better conditions," he added.

The raid was launched after the Immigration Police received an anonymous tip-off that the farm was employing illegal foreign workers.

In the 120 meters of cages, the officers found mainly geese and the occasional rat. But in one cage, the last section of the longest of the cages, they found the 14 workers asleep on filthy mattresses.

"The cages are very long and the workers were asleep in one 20-meter section," said Chief Superintendent David Mondani, the head of the Immigration Police's central division. "The cage was raised slightly off the ground, around half a meter, and directly underneath was a gutter carrying the geese's excrement. There was no roof to speak of, just a flimsy asbestos covering."

During the months that the workers were employed at the farm, they ate their meals inside the pens, watched television during their free hours and, even during the recent cold snap, slept inside the cages.

"At first we looked for the workers inside one of the buildings, but found nothing. We then searched the sheds, and we were shocked to find the workers sleeping there. They were very scared when we woke them," Mondani added.

A preliminary investigation found none of the 14 workers had valid permits, and the Immigration Authority suspects that they were employed by the same farm where they were found sleeping. The Immigration Authority plans to deport some of the workers, while others will be granted work permits and found alternative places of employment.

Immigration Authority sources said yesterday that the workers apparently fled from their previous employer and found shelter in the goose farm. "It would appear that their boss took advantage of their dire situation and kept them in such appalling conditions."

The owner of the goose farm, a 52-year-old resident of Ben Zakai, and his 30-year-old son were arrested yesterday. They will appear today at the Ramle Magistrate's Court for a remand hearing. They are suspected of exploitation and illegally employing foreign workers.

The suspects, who arrived at the Ramle police station for questioning in an expensive BMW jeep, deny all the charges against them. Indeed, they deny all knowledge of the 14 Thai workers. According to Mondani, however, there is evidence linking the two to the workers.

-- haaretz.com, Israel,  2005-02-16

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

..Well did anyone bother to ask the Thais how they felt?

It seems as though `roughing it` has worked for some of them as they are to get work permits, which is probably what they wanted in the first place.

Illegal immigrants cannot expect to be treated as legal immigrants and I am sure that they did not expect to be.....but they took their chance like thousands of others do.

The truth of the matter is although I do not condone exploitation that people all over the world get exploited when they arrive in a country illegally. I canoot see anywhere where anyone has said that these people were promised anything other than work.........they took their chance..

[Dakhar]

amen

[bina]

on an ironic note; got a phone call yesterday that a thai worker that used to work with us, gone home, and returned to a different moshav, got arrested last night at the supermarket. i had helped him switch employers after he complained that his former employer was crazy (apparently this employer has gone thru 14 othre workers before him); i spoke to the manpower company, moved the guy to a new place. he didnt like the pay, i told him to wait a week or two and then i could speak to the new employer whom i'd been told was a 'good guy' ... but no, this idiot ran away to jerusalem, (when they leave an employer they lose the visa same day), the police caught him, called his second (now former )employer to verify if he was still working there (he wasnt) end of story.... now he will sit two or three months and then back to buriram and a very angry new, young wife....prison here isnt to bad; there is a thai woman that goes once a week to speak with them etc.... but still.... now i've lost face and credibility with this manpower company after saying that this same guy had worked with us for two years and was a good worker etc....

[JemJem]

Bina, it seems that in Israel, for menial jobs, there is quite a demand for workers. I guess most Israeli citizens do not want to work at such jobs. The easiest option would be for Israel to employ Palestinians (there is a very high number of Palestinians unemployed, as we all know) but as we all know, due to security reasons, Israel does not want to do that (whether this is discrimination or justified security concern could be argued but anyway I don't wanna get into that here). So, they employ foreign nationals, including Thais. Why don't they increase the quota of foreign workers (AND THEN get tough on illegals) so that the 'illegal worker problem' could somewhat be tackled more efficiently ?! After all, it does not seem that there is a case of a high number of foreign workers taking jobs away from Israeli citizens.

Cheers,

Jem

[bina]

jemjem,

you know how people on the forum say : this is thailand; well, my answer is, this is israel, where politics and efficiency do not go hand in hand; i've worked with israeli students picking apples (they were ok but dont have a lot of endurance, beduins (sorry to say but the break ins and stealing apples made it not worth it and if they dont have a really disgusting 'rais' (overseer who sits and smokes cigarettes and yells to every one to make sure they work and dont sneak off somewhere to smoke cigarettes,) well, we turn back to thailand workers (pleasant, efficient, hard working, learn quickly and for the most part not sullen; respect authority, dont argue over every little detail like the arab and jewish workers do, take things in stride, are sociable with eachother and their employers if the employer makes an effort, the thai in general are clean shaven, delicate looking, modest and shy; israelis say : homudim i.e. cute/nice) --the antithesis of any other types here.

beduin/arab workers tend to be sullen, nasty and try to find a million ways to get out of doing what has to be done and they always think theyre getting screwed over, also, i can tell u that when a truck of palestinian workers leaves the premises, after checking the truck, half of what they picked is hidden in their clothes etc, onions, apples, whatever.... they are out to screw the system any way they can.(can u blame them, but thsi will not change for a long long time as their children and children's children have learned that we are the enemy and there is more then one way to get back at the enemy).and intelligent, educated arab or palestinians will not do these jobs either..

the arab workers i have dealt with here are , as sompong my thai worker says , lazy, do a really shoddy non expert job etc...... the worst is when u hear some of the arab kids from our nearby village talk about the palestinian workers (they do 'arab work' i.e. bad ,shoddy quality etc.... sompong has stomped off on more than one occasion because he has had to clean up after some building mess that the arab construction workers left behind...

jewish israeli workers?? give me a break.... they always have a reason why they cant do something.... their back hurts, headaches, have to go to the doctors, they wont touch something, too hot, to hard, not enough money planning to go study in a few months, going to india to look for themselves , and if its an older settled down person, the pay isnt worth it, bla bla bla,,,, i have friends who would rather sit at home and get unemployment than pick peppers all day.... im an american woman and i do the same s___ work my worker does; as do the men here in the orchards.... often u will hear someone say, why dont u have the thai worker do it (clean bathrooms whatever) but that's not my style.

these are of course my own impressions but tend to coincide with the majority of israel attitudes barring the extreme right wing and left wing.... i thought that as an american i would see things differently but 22 yrs here has shown me a broad picture and i have become slightly more cynical in my political activsm.

BTW when i was in thailand, i went shopping with a thai woman (who had lived in america many years) and her maid.... the whole time, she gave her maid all the bags packages etc... i refused, and carried my own.... just not my style.... although there are many israelis who would enjoy having a maid like that

but as i've said, the govt' here doesnt work on logic but on a combination of religious and political stands that use the foreign workers as just an other card in the game...

every time there is a political hooha, the foreign workers enter teh picture, but never for long because the palestinians are not an option and the jewish isrealis will never fill those spots (the russians wont either, and the ethiopian jews for instance in our area who have been unemployeed for three + yrs, worked one day, and ran away ... they didnt like that type of work) so back to thai workers again....

as for my friend in jail, the guys here all said: som nam na

[chonabot]

jemjem,

you know how people on the forum say : this is thailand; well, my answer is, this is israel, where politics and efficiency do not go hand in hand;  i've worked with israeli students picking apples  (they were ok but dont have a lot of endurance, beduins (sorry to say but the break ins and stealing apples made it not worth it and if they dont have a really disgusting 'rais' (overseer who sits and smokes cigarettes and yells to every one to make sure they work and dont sneak off somewhere to smoke cigarettes,) well, we turn back to thailand workers (pleasant, efficient, hard working, learn quickly and for the most part not sullen; respect authority, dont argue over every little detail like the arab and jewish workers do, take things in stride, are sociable with eachother and their employers if the employer makes an effort, the thai in general are clean shaven, delicate looking, modest and shy; israelis say : homudim i.e. cute/nice) --the antithesis of any other types here.

beduin/arab workers tend to be sullen, nasty and try to find a million ways to get out of doing what has to be done and they always think theyre getting screwed over, also, i can tell u that when a truck of palestinian workers leaves the premises, after checking the truck, half of what they picked is hidden in their clothes etc, onions, apples, whatever.... they are out to screw the system any way they can.(can u blame them, but thsi will not change for a long long time as their children and children's children have learned that we are the enemy and there is more then one way to get back at the enemy).and intelligent, educated arab or palestinians will not do these jobs either..

the arab workers i have dealt with here are , as sompong my thai worker says ,  lazy, do a really shoddy non expert job etc...... the worst is when u hear some of the arab kids from our nearby village talk about the palestinian workers (they do 'arab work' i.e. bad ,shoddy quality etc.... sompong has stomped off on more than one occasion because he has had to clean up after some building mess that the arab construction workers left behind...

jewish israeli workers?? give me a break.... they always have a reason why they cant do something.... their back hurts, headaches, have to go to the doctors, they wont touch something, too hot, to hard, not enough money planning to go study in a few months, going to india to look for themselves , and if its an older settled down person, the pay isnt worth it, bla bla bla,,,, i have friends who would rather sit at home and get unemployment than pick peppers all day.... im an american woman and i do the same s___ work my worker does; as do the men here in the orchards.... often u will hear someone say, why dont u have the thai worker do it (clean bathrooms whatever) but that's not my style.

these are of course my own impressions but tend to coincide with the majority of israel attitudes barring the extreme right wing and left wing.... i thought that as an american i would see things differently but 22 yrs here has shown me a broad picture and i have become slightly more cynical in my political activsm.

BTW when i was in thailand, i went shopping with a thai woman (who had lived in america many years) and her maid.... the whole time, she gave her maid all the bags packages etc... i refused, and carried my own.... just not my style.... although there are many israelis who would enjoy having a maid like that

but as i've said, the govt' here doesnt work on logic but on a combination of religious and political stands that use the foreign workers as just an other card in the game...

every time there is a political hooha, the foreign workers enter teh picture, but never for long because the palestinians are not an option and the jewish isrealis will never fill those spots (the russians wont either, and the ethiopian jews for instance in our area who have been unemployeed for three + yrs, worked one day, and ran away ... they didnt like that type of work) so back to thai workers again....

as for my friend in jail, the guys here all said: som nam na

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It all sounds like the Uk in the 50's with migrant workers from the West Indies , except they were given citizenship , and the majority of Brits were too Lazy to do the Menial jobs.

[bina]

yeah but to marry someone who is a foreigh worker is an other story; it makes kafka's beaurocracy look pleasant.....

[JemJem]

jemjem,

you know how people on the forum say : this is thailand; well, my answer is, this is israel, where politics and efficiency do not go hand in hand;  i've worked with israeli students picking apples  (they were ok but dont have a lot of endurance, beduins (sorry to say but the break ins and stealing apples made it not worth it and if they dont have a really disgusting 'rais' (overseer who sits and smokes cigarettes and yells to every one to make sure they work and dont sneak off somewhere to smoke cigarettes,) well, we turn back to thailand workers (pleasant, efficient, hard working, learn quickly and for the most part not sullen; respect authority, dont argue over every little detail like the arab and jewish workers do, take things in stride, are sociable with eachother and their employers if the employer makes an effort, the thai in general are clean shaven, delicate looking, modest and shy; israelis say : homudim i.e. cute/nice) --the antithesis of any other types here.

beduin/arab workers tend to be sullen, nasty and try to find a million ways to get out of doing what has to be done and they always think theyre getting screwed over, also, i can tell u that when a truck of palestinian workers leaves the premises, after checking the truck, half of what they picked is hidden in their clothes etc, onions, apples, whatever.... they are out to screw the system any way they can.(can u blame them, but thsi will not change for a long long time as their children and children's children have learned that we are the enemy and there is more then one way to get back at the enemy).and intelligent, educated arab or palestinians will not do these jobs either..

the arab workers i have dealt with here are , as sompong my thai worker says ,  lazy, do a really shoddy non expert job etc...... the worst is when u hear some of the arab kids from our nearby village talk about the palestinian workers (they do 'arab work' i.e. bad ,shoddy quality etc.... sompong has stomped off on more than one occasion because he has had to clean up after some building mess that the arab construction workers left behind...

jewish israeli workers?? give me a break.... they always have a reason why they cant do something.... their back hurts, headaches, have to go to the doctors, they wont touch something, too hot, to hard, not enough money planning to go study in a few months, going to india to look for themselves , and if its an older settled down person, the pay isnt worth it, bla bla bla,,,, i have friends who would rather sit at home and get unemployment than pick peppers all day.... im an american woman and i do the same s___ work my worker does; as do the men here in the orchards.... often u will hear someone say, why dont u have the thai worker do it (clean bathrooms whatever) but that's not my style.

these are of course my own impressions but tend to coincide with the majority of israel attitudes barring the extreme right wing and left wing.... i thought that as an american i would see things differently but 22 yrs here has shown me a broad picture and i have become slightly more cynical in my political activsm.

BTW when i was in thailand, i went shopping with a thai woman (who had lived in america many years) and her maid.... the whole time, she gave her maid all the bags packages etc... i refused, and carried my own.... just not my style.... although there are many israelis who would enjoy having a maid like that

but as i've said, the govt' here doesnt work on logic but on a combination of religious and political stands that use the foreign workers as just an other card in the game...

every time there is a political hooha, the foreign workers enter teh picture, but never for long because the palestinians are not an option and the jewish isrealis will never fill those spots (the russians wont either, and the ethiopian jews for instance in our area who have been unemployeed for three + yrs, worked one day, and ran away ... they didnt like that type of work) so back to thai workers again....

as for my friend in jail, the guys here all said: som nam na

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for all the above that you wrote. It is always nice to learn various new stuff about various countries.

Cheers,

Jem