Pattaya Is Finished

[tropo]

That is the new breed of tourist who will soon make up the majority of visitors to Pattaya now. They're easily recognisable, shaven heads, football shirts, tattoos, foul language, aggressive natures and bad manners. These people are not going to endear the Thai people to falangs. The Benidorm Fusiliers have discovered Pattaya and it will change forever. Don't buy a house, rent one because you will not be able to sell it. Look at what's happened to the property market in Spain.

Yawn.

Double yawn.

I regret that you found my contribution to the subject being discussed boring. I first came to Pattaya in 1984 for a holiday. I have been spending 6-7 months out of every year for the last 10 years in Pattaya and have seen many changes. One of the changes involves the behaviour of many of the falang visitors and as this is an open forum I thought I would type in what I have observed regarding the matter being discussed.

For you to avoid being sent to sleep or getting bored by any comment I may make in the future you can easily remedy the situation by scrolling past any threads that you see bearing my name and move on to the next entry.

Yawn.

Another punter living in the past.

There aren't too many places that haven't changed in 25 years.

[JR Texas]

Yawn.

Another punter living in the past.

There aren't too many places that haven't changed in 25 years.

Yogi is living in the present with an understanding of history...........his eyes are open.......that means his perspective is likely superior to people who have no understanding or appreciation of history.

[RobotTeacher]

Yep, it looks almost finished, but it's still gets a healthy draw of older men. You go to the beach to find a murky ocean with waste floating in it. You want to sit down for a foot massage, but the ladies are rude and unfriendly. It's still a pretty place to stroll along the beach among the remaining coconut palms, but it's ruined.

I found friendly shops and restaurants on the 2nd and 3rd roads though the front beach road and walking street offered little appealing to me. I didn't go for the women, but just went once to see what it's like. It's not the little watering hole American GI's used to go to. I'd never consider living in such a place.

[klikster]

I lived in Pattaya for just over one year .. about 5 years ago. I moved there temporarily for a very specific reason, intending to stay for just a few months. Medical complications extended my stay. I lived in a popular farang condo on Soi Buakhao.

I didn't particularly like Pattaya .. but I didn't particularly hate it either.

I did hate the traffic .. and the farangs sitting in restaurants wearing nothing except speedos, or walking around Topland without shirts.

I did enjoy the people running the shops in the condo. The young woman who ran the minimart was always politely stern in her impromptu Thai lessons. And she kept me well supplied with pickled boiled eggs.

The staff working in the laundry proved to be very cordial as well .. and allowed their cat to visit my room (usually had my door open) on a regular basis. The cat was one of my favorite people at the condo.

The part-timer across the hallway, who also started leaving his door open so we could get a nice breeze, proved to be a very cordial chap .. even though he once made an oblique suggestion that I might be "doing" the gf who stayed in residence while he was away. I wasn't, although I think she was freelancing. But she was always very courteous. So was the maid who did an excellent job of cleaning my room.

I really liked the food in Pattaya .. too much actually. That Swiss restaurant was my favorite .. or maybe the busy Thai place that made such good 'pad krapow'.

I even absconded from a baht bus one evening, forgetting to pay .. yes, I'm old. Apparently the driver figured that overcharging me on a regular basis had brought back some karma. He drove away without a word.

Maybe if I drank and partied with the girls (or boys), I would have had different negatives, or positives, to relate.

The shopping was great as well. And BKK is an easy ride.

Would I ever move back to Pattaya? Possibly, more likely to that area .. but not to any of the heavy traffic zones.

Edited July 5, 2009 by klikster

[Lancelot]

For you to avoid being sent to sleep or getting bored by any comment I may make in the future you can easily remedy the situation by scrolling past any threads that you see bearing my name and move on to the next entry.

Isn't there a forum rule that states we must react harshly to each aand every post we disagree with?

Edited July 5, 2009 by Lancelot

[cpofc]

I left Australia for a whole host of reasons.

One of these being that I was fed up with the mean spirited, angry, road raging, nasty, stressed out, rude and disrespectful people in my home country. I knew if I wasn't careful I was going to wind up just like them,

I don't get off on being a nasty prick. That's why I like it here. Living among people who are polite and treat each other with manners and respect.

I cannot help but wonder how some of the people that use this Message Board get on in this country? Being a nasty bastard by nature won't do you many favours in this country. The Thais will soon ostracize you and send you to coventry, making it unbearable to be here.

As my dear departed Grandmother always said, if you have nothing good to say about someone, don't say anything at all.

[tropo]

Yogi is living in the present with an understanding of history...........his eyes are open.......that means his perspective is likely superior to people who have no understanding or appreciation of history.

Here we go again. I thought we'd done this already on another thread.

Yogi (and you) are giving views of Pattaya from an historical perspective 25 years ago. That not a superior view, it's a view of old timers yearning for a time gone by. It's a quater of a century back in time, a time which doesn't concern 99.9% of punters.

You will not find a popular tourist destination anywhere in the world which resembles the version of 25 years ago. I call it progress, but sentimental old timers who live way back in the past call it a reason to complain. At least there was no internet back then so the 1984 punters didn't have to hear complaints from 1960 punters on a forum.

The only thing I miss from 1984 is my youth. I don't see how even an old timer could view the world the same way as a 25 year younger version of himself. Younger eyes always see things differently.

Why not go all the way back to the 60's when Pattaya was a fishing village and complain how things have changed since then? I'm sure there are the some old fishermen who yearn for those days too.

I'm a recent punter in Pattaya. I like it this way and took it on in its present form, the only form that I know or care about. What was going on 25 years ago is irrrelevant. I'm sure some recent punters may open a thread on this forum in 2035 and complain how things have gone downhill since 2009.

Every year I visit a bygone era when I spend a month in my gf's province in the Philippines. Shops are all closed by 7pm and lights are out by 8pm. No restaurants, no hotels or bars, no supermarkets, no traffic, no hospitals or pharmacies, just peace and quiet, fresh air and friendly natives. This is when I appreciate Pattaya the most.

Edited July 5, 2009 by tropo

[cpofc]

well, I guess if people are going to continually ask the question, people will endeavour to provide them with answers and their opinions as to why. A discussion board would be nothing if you did not actually discuss anything, and just berated each other.

If you wish to live in a 'Party Town' like Pattaya, that specifially caters for foreign tourists, and all that it offers, go for it. it's 'horses for courses' really. Those who have been there and done that and now seek a quieter and less hectic lifestyle, make a Seachange and go up country. It happens all over the world. Take alook at Byron Bay in Australia. Now if you wanted to live there, IMHO, you'd have to be nuts!

Yes, Pattaya, like everywhere else in the world, has changed, many of those changes I like, and likewise there are a few I don't like.

What I do know, compared to 30-40 years ago, that it is a bloody sight easier to live here (Thailand) now than it was then. For too many reasons to list here. I just love technology!

So, to answer the OP. no Pattaya won't die. Unless of course the Thai Government successfully addresses the issue of poverty in rural Thailand, which in turn would prevent the mass migration of young ladies to the famous beach resort.

[tropo]

It happens all over the world. Take alook at Byron Bay in Australia. Now if you wanted to live there, IMHO, you'd have to be nuts!

Interesting you should bring up Byron Bay. I lived nearby in the heart of Surfers Paradise for 20 years going back to 1983. This is another party town where people were always complaining about progress and development.

[JR Texas]

JR Texas to Tropo: I feel like it is impossible to have any type of civilized discussion with you.

[Smile4u]

JR : I second that.

Thats why I use "ignore" button.

[Penkoprod]

JR : I second that.

Thats why I use "ignore" button.

And where is this magical button located?

Penkoprod

[raro]

chill pills, guys...please keep it civil.

[raro]

Three posts with bickering deleted and this is last friendly warning.

For personal issues with other posters kindly use the PM system or the courtyard at 5 am but keep it out of the open forum.

[JimsKnight]

That is the new breed of tourist who will soon make up the majority of visitors to Pattaya now. They're easily recognisable, shaven heads, football shirts, tattoos, foul language, aggressive natures and bad manners. These people are not going to endear the Thai people to falangs. The Benidorm Fusiliers have discovered Pattaya and it will change forever. Don't buy a house, rent one because you will not be able to sell it. Look at what's happened to the property market in Spain.

Yawn.

Double yawn.

I regret that you found my contribution to the subject being discussed boring. I first came to Pattaya in 1984 for a holiday. I have been spending 6-7 months out of every year for the last 10 years in Pattaya and have seen many changes. One of the changes involves the behaviour of many of the falang visitors and as this is an open forum I thought I would type in what I have observed regarding the matter being discussed.

For you to avoid being sent to sleep or getting bored by any comment I may make in the future you can easily remedy the situation by scrolling past any threads that you see bearing my name and move on to the next entry.

Ignore em mate, they are either the 'sheep' or the 'cool' kids/people, I tried explaining expat differences, then and now, and you get phony responses like you're not 'cool' anymore.

Fck 'cool', I'll just stick with being a rough diamond

[JR Texas]

JR : I second that.

Thats why I use "ignore" button.

And where is this magical button located?

Penkoprod

Go to My Controls......scroll down to options and you will find manage ignore list........add or delete people.

My attempt at trying to get a certain person to understand the importance of history clearly failed.

Personally, I don't know how it is possible to discuss whether or not Pattaya is finished without having something to compare it to in the past.......doesn't even make sense to me.

Maybe one more example:

A patient, let's call him <snip>, is feeling sick......thinking maybe he is finished. So, he rushes to the hospital. The doctor looks him over and thinks he might have blablabla disease.

The doctor, a wise old man, tells <snip> that blablabla disease manifests itself in two ways: 1) suddenly over a short time period (maybe one week or a few months) or 2) slowly over a long time period (maybe years/decades).

The doctor leans over and asks <snip> about the history of his disease...........<snip> responds, "history is not important.......I live in the present........the present is all that matters."

The doctor gets a puzzled look on his face and tries again. <snip>, it is critical that you tell me about the history of your disease.......when did you first experience symptoms? Did they come on on suddenly or over a long period of time?

<snip> answers, ""history is not important.......I live in the present........the present is all that matters."

<snip>, it is critical that you tell me about your disease history because if it came on suddenly, the treatment is very different than if it came on over a long period of time. And, we can't make a mistake in terms of treatment because it might kill you.

<snip> answers, ""history is not important.......I live in the present........the present is all that matters."

We'll, this discussion goes on and on.......meanwhile <snip> gets sicker and sicker refusing to tell the doctor about the history of his disease.......the end result surfaces: RIP <snip>.

History is important. It puts perspective on current events. It helps us to understand current mistakes.

Edited July 6, 2009 by raro
board member's name removed

[Ulysses G.]

History is important. It puts perspective on current events. It helps us to understand current mistakes.

History: About two years ago, the world economy went into a downward spiral and a lot of people lost money in the stock market and lost their jobs. The stockmarket has slowly improved, but other sections of the economy are still stuggling.

Outlook : Pattaya will recover right along with the world economy and it should not be too much longer!

[LennyW]

Pattaya is Finished - What a load of Rubbish !

Absolutely correct, Pattaya is not "finished" and never will be unless it gets nuked off the face of the planet!

Pattaya will continue to grow and evolve in it's usual sporadic way, one thing is for sure, the progress/development of Pattaya will not please everybody and there will be those who will continue to be happy with how it is shaping up...."You cannot please all of the people all of the time" as somebody once said.

But whatever your feelings on the matter...Pattaya will be around long after most of us are not.

[torrenova]

If you look at the nightlife business, bars, clubs etc. then it is not going to recover to what it was. I think there has been a fundamental shift and whereas the middle ground was ok, business wise, now it is the cheap and cheerful end which has its time or the opposite, the more upmarket and expensive. The numbers for the mid range businesses just don't stack up anymore. The problem is that cheep and cheerful only works if fixed costs are low and there are not too many places like that. At the expensive end, people are scared to make such large investments.

From a punter's perspective I don't things will ever recover to the days of spending with abandon.

I've been looking at some investment opportunities in and around Pattaya and people are still wanting top dollar for rubbish. BUsinesses losing money are being advertised as having a high value. We are not yet at the bottom and yet already, public perception is that much of Pattaya is overpriced and offers less value than other places, namely staying nearer home or going to the Pi and similar.

[tropo]

We are not yet at the bottom and yet already, public perception is that much of Pattaya is overpriced and offers less value than other places, namely staying nearer home or going to the Pi and similar.

I'm often hear talk on this board that Pattaya is overpriced and offers less value than other places. Where are these places? Places with the same range of entertainment and infrastructure which are cheaper?

You cannot compare PI with Pattaya. I moved from PI to Pattaya because it offered much better value for money in all areas plus a far superior overall standard of living.

Nothing is cheaper in PI except maybe P4P in AC.

Edited July 6, 2009 by tropo

[Ulysses G.]

Tropo sees things as they are.

PI is a dangerous, sh*thole (although it can be lots of fun). There is no comparison with Thailand.

[tropo]

Tropo sees things as they are.

PI is a dangerous, sh*thole (although it can be lots of fun). There is no comparison with Thailand.

Absolutely. I support a family over there and spend about 1 month a year over there myself...therefore I have to keep a very close eye on prices. The price of food and most commodities has gone through the roof. If a person rented a house there and used aircon most of the day, they could expect an electricity bill as high as the monthly rent. Add in a pool and it could easily be more. I believe they have the second most expensive electricity on the planet. White goods and other electrical appliances (TV's, computers etc) cost double over there.

I'm still waiting for someone to show me where the cheaper, superior expat destinations are.

Edited July 7, 2009 by tropo

[Tolley]

Pattaya and Thailand in particular were a lot cheaper 10 years ago.

Even taking into account inflation Thailand is not the cheap tourist destination it once was.

On the plus side you do get a lot more facilities and a lot better infrastructure than what you used to get in the past.

The price of progress is well higher costs i suppose.

Personally I am not concerned as I am making a lot more money than i ever used to anyway.

However for those westerners on average incomes i think they definitely get a lot less bang for their buck so to speak.

[tropo]

Pattaya and Thailand in particular were a lot cheaper 10 years ago.

What a profound statement. Are there any places as cheap as they were 10 years ago?

It's the drop in other world currencies against the baht which is the main deterrent to tourism and spending, not prices in Thailand.

What about the Asian financial crisis of 1997 which caused a major collapse in the strength of the baht? That kind of makes a 10 year ago comparison meaningless.

[Tarqin]

Triple yawn and feel free to add me to your ignore list.

NOTHING is as it was 10 years ago much less 25 years ago including me.

Yesterday is gone (and tomorrow is out of sight to quote the song). Let it go already.

[cpofc]

Depends from which perspective you look at it really.

As an Australian travelling Asia for 40 years I have a pretty retentive memory when it comes to exchange rates, I was here in 97 too when the Asian Tigers went under. But I was here before that also, when Australia went into recession in the early 90s and the AUD slipped to UNDER 16 Baht!

But as i have posted before Australians cannot complain about the AUD-BHT exchange rate today, we did have a 'honeymoon period' last year when it peaked at 32, but that didn't last long did it. it has only gotten that high twice in 40 years against the baht,

Even when the Australian Dollar was at its strongest in its history, I.E. Since its inception on February 14th 1966, this was in September 1974, when the first of a long series of devaluations were made, the Thai Baht was still only 22 to the AUD. The Australian Dollar has steadily gone backwards since then, culminating in the floating of the currency in 83, when it sunk.

If one was to take a mean of the Australian Dollar against the baht over 40 years you would get an average in the low 20's. 30-40 years ago Thailand was the most expensive place to drink beer in all of Sth East Asia. it isn't today.

So Australians have no cause to complain or ease up their spending, so to spreak. Anything over 25 is a bonus.

The arse falling out of the UK pound seems to be the biggest cause of grief for many. But that aint the Thais fault.

The change I find hardest to cope with in Pattaya? The change in Attitude.

[Tolley]

Pattaya and Thailand in particular were a lot cheaper 10 years ago.

What a profound statement. Are there any places as cheap as they were 10 years ago?

It's the drop in other world currencies against the baht which is the main deterrent to tourism and spending, not prices in Thailand.

What about the Asian financial crisis of 1997 which caused a major collapse in the strength of the baht? That kind of makes a 10 year ago comparison meaningless.

I think you have comprehension problems and if you hadn't selectively quoted you may have understood the point i was driving at.

Namely that a lot of the increases are a result of the fact that Thailand has changed.

Standard of living is better so costs are increasing. There are more western style amenities and infrastructure has improved.

The Australian dollar has not moved much really. In fact at 27 baht to the dollar it is more than i was getting even back in 1980.

It may be different to US citizens whose dollar has slipped dramatically due to GWB and his misguided policies bankrupting the country.

Edited July 8, 2009 by Tolley

[tropo]

Pattaya and Thailand in particular were a lot cheaper 10 years ago.

What a profound statement. Are there any places as cheap as they were 10 years ago?

It's the drop in other world currencies against the baht which is the main deterrent to tourism and spending, not prices in Thailand.

What about the Asian financial crisis of 1997 which caused a major collapse in the strength of the baht? That kind of makes a 10 year ago comparison meaningless.

I think you have comprehension problems and if you hadn't selectively quoted you may have understood the point i was driving at.

No, I don't have comprehension problems, you're just having some difficulty expressing your ideas.

[Tolley]

Pattaya and Thailand in particular were a lot cheaper 10 years ago.

What a profound statement. Are there any places as cheap as they were 10 years ago?

It's the drop in other world currencies against the baht which is the main deterrent to tourism and spending, not prices in Thailand.

What about the Asian financial crisis of 1997 which caused a major collapse in the strength of the baht? That kind of makes a 10 year ago comparison meaningless.

I think you have comprehension problems and if you hadn't selectively quoted you may have understood the point i was driving at.

No, I don't have comprehension problems, you're just having some difficulty expressing your ideas.

Sorry you will have to bear with me as I am Australian and English is not my first language!

[rgs2001uk]

Pattaya and Thailand in particular were a lot cheaper 10 years ago.

What a profound statement. Are there any places as cheap as they were 10 years ago?

It's the drop in other world currencies against the baht which is the main deterrent to tourism and spending, not prices in Thailand.

What about the Asian financial crisis of 1997 which caused a major collapse in the strength of the baht? That kind of makes a 10 year ago comparison meaningless.

It was the collapse of the baht 12 years ago which lulled many into a sense of false security, a la the 2 week millionaires getting almost 50 baht to the US$ or 80 plus to the GBP.

I rememeber the average to the £ was in the 38-40 range ( even seen it as low as 32 ), I believe today it was 53, still an increase of about 33%, the US$ was about 33 today, from the 25 baht it was pre 1997, an increase of about 32%.

You are of course correct, its the not the prices in Thailand that are a deterrent,but the price it costs to buy Thai baht that are the deterrent.

Lets say I was spending US$,3000 at an exchange rate of 45 equals 135,000 baht, the same amount of baht would now cost me roughly US$ 3860, an increase of almost 29%, I know no one who has had a salary increase over say the last 4 years of 29%.

Yes I agree with the original staement, Thailand offered better value for money at 25 baht per US$, even allowing for inflation.

What is killing Pattaya is greed, when I read statements such as the property market to increase by 500%

over the next 5 years I ask myself who is making these comments and what vested intrests do they have.

You know as well as I, you could get rid of 50% (at least) of the bars and no one would even know they were gone.

Pattaya will of course reinvent itself and continue, many may not like the direction it takes, will it go back to pre 1997 when many visitors were those expats working in Thailand, those in the offshore industry coming for some r&r or expats working in the middle or far east?

I beleive a 10 year ago comparison is valid, because I feel thats the way Thailand is headed, back to the level of tourists it had 10 or 12 years ago, of course new tourists will arrive, Indians, Chinese etc etc, the farang may well find he is no longer as, hansum as he once thought