Microsoft Hit's Back

[rumpelstielzchen]

on http://windows7center.com/news/windows-7-i...le-the-pricing/ to read:

{quote}

Windows 7 in Europe will have no upgrade options and up to double the pricing

Windows 7 fans in Europe are in for a major disappointment. According to ComputerWorld, European customers will have to pay up to double the price for Windows 7 compared to the American counterparts. No particular reason was given as to why Windows 7 will be priced so high in the EU. Windows 7 in the United Kingdom will be priced differently, but will still have significantly higher prices than their US counterparts.

Earlier this month, Microsoft announced that European copies of Windows 7 will not contain IE8 as a response to the criticism coming from EU antitrust regulators. A browser-less version of edition called Windows 7E will be shipped instead. However, this has forced Microsoft to not allow its customers to perform any in-place upgrades from Vista, which would leave some version of IE on the computer.

Below are the prices for Windows 7 in the EU. Prices in the United Kingdom are different, but pricing in both regions are still significantly higher than the cheapest option offered in the United States. Below are the prices in Europe and the UK. Enclosed in the brackets are the same prices converted into US dollars according to today’s exchange rate. Alongside are the differences in pricing compared to the Upgrade edition of Windows 7 in the US. We compared the Upgrade edition prices in the US since the full editions in Europe are being offered at the European upgrade edition prices.

Windows 7 Home Premium – €119.99/£79.99 ($168.69/$132.22) – Up $48.70/$12.23

Windows 7 Professional – €284.99/£189.99 ($400.63/$314.05) – Up $200.64/$114.06

Windows 7 Ultimate – €299.99/£229.99 ($421.69/$380.17) – Up $201.70/$160.18

Prices in the UK are cheaper than those in the EU, while Windows 7 Professional costs twice as much as its counterpart in the US. Windows 7 Ultimate, which retails for $219.99 in the US, costs almost 90% more in the EU, and 73% more in the UK.

Fortunately for some Europeans, Microsoft does plan to offer its great Windows 7 pre-order special in France, Germany, and the UK. The pre-order program for those countries will begin on July 15 and run while supplies last, or until August 14th. The pre-order pricing are as follows:

Windows 7 Home Premium €49.99/£49.99

Windows 7 Professional €109.99/£99.99

Be sure to mark your calendars for July 15 and come back to check out our Windows 7 Upgrade FAQ and more info regarding where you can pre-order Windows 7 in Europe!{/quote}

[jackdanielsesq]

I often wondered why the EU would remove IE8/? and then expect the new user to get onto the net how?

With a stick? Or does everyone carry a copy of Oprah/Opera & FF around with them on a stick - replete with viruses?!

Seems real juvenile. It used to be all about choice?! Maybe we do it all in Parlez-Vous Français one day.

BR>Jack

[MeetJohnDoe]

That EU Competition Commissioner broad is also on a jihad for MS to remove Media Center/Player from the OS (and make it a separate download...what a moronic bird! Why not also strip-out the air-con/heating units from cars and the radios too or the nav/GPS systems and make people buy and install them separately?

But in any case, if true, serves the Euro customers right for voting in folks who appoint people who make rulings like this. I love the part about no upgrade option for current Vista users too (again thanks to the commissioner's idiotic ruling that IE software must be separate from the OS)...make those cheese-eating surrender monkeys buy a full-new install version rather than a half-price upgrade kit

So go ahead MS, strip-out useful features and jack up the price...and make the Euro public pay for the fines their commissioners have been levying on you of late.

Edited June 30, 2009 by MeetJohnDoe

[Khun Jack]

That EU Competition Commissioner broad is also on a jihad for MS to remove Media Center/Player from the OS (and make it a separate download...what a moronic bird! Why not also strip-out the air-con/heating units from cars and the radios too or the nav/GPS systems and make people buy and install them separately?

But in any case, if true, serves the Euro customers right for voting in folks who appoint people who make rulings like this. I love the part about no upgrade option for current Vista users too (again thanks to the commissioner's idiotic ruling that IE software must be separate from the OS)...make those cheese-eating surrender monkeys buy a full-new install version rather than a half-price upgrade kit

So go ahead MS, strip-out useful features and jack up the price...and make the Euro public pay for the fines their commissioners have been levying on you of late.

Neelie Kroes (now you know her name) does a great job fighting large corporations who abuses their power to make secret price deals or eliminate the competition by unfair means.

Firefox is a zillion times better than IE, and free, but only morons use IE as their default internet browser.

[Rawkus]

Anything that prevents a system from Microsoft from going online has to be a good idea imho.

Could one imagine how much time and money has been spent fixing MS problems by the myriad of IT techs across the globe since the intertubes became popular? Imagine a cyber-world without ActiveX, dotNet, C#, DirectX et al and you will see what the tubes (and computing) could have been.

Microsoft is the ultimate pox on computing; they try to buy and/or stifle any competing ideas and when they can't they come up with some ludicrously inept replacement which is rammed down the throats of everybody.

[KhaoNiaw]

But in any case, if true, serves the Euro customers right for voting in folks who appoint people who make rulings like this.

Europeans actually get to elect very few of the folks who are controlling their lives these days.

[sjaak327]

" Firefox is a zillion times better than IE, and free, but only morons use IE as their default internet browser. "

Thanks for calling me a moron, I simply like it much more then firefox, and of course no one in their right miind would call firefox zillion times better, it's just a browser for crying out loud, and for me personaly I see zero reason why I would have to use firefox, in fact I prefer Opera over firefox any day.

Of course there is no need to despair, as I always get my MS products from Technet anyway, so probably simply going to download the complete OS, too bad Neelie Smit, who nobody in her own country takes seriously, has now making it harder for the average European to get Windows fully working, they now need to download a browser first, could be hard with a browserless OS

I wonder if Apple is going to be forced to ship Snow Leopard without Safari, or better yet, when Nelie is going to make Apple drop that EULA that says that their OS can only run on apple manufactured hardware..

Too bad that people who have zero electoral mandate, and zero knowledge in this particular field can have such a big influence, time for the European Union to think long and hard, maybe sent her back were she belongs ?

[MeetJohnDoe]

Kroes (now you know her name) does a great job fighting large corporations who abuses their power to make secret price deals or eliminate the competition by unfair means.

Yeah...that "Crows" bird is real peach...and I'm sure it's just a coincidence that she's always gunning for American companies like MS and Intel and treats the "home team" companies with kid-gloves.

So enjoying paying 2x the USA price for a full new install when it comes time for you Euro folks and companies to upgrade (which 90% of you will eventually do), with no upgrade option pricing, and no IE or Win Media Center functionality. And then sit down and write a thank you note to Crows thanking her for protecting you from the evil MS monopoly.

(This whole episode reminds me when Crows earlier made MS sell a version of Vista w/o IE and so they just took it out but kept the price the same thereby making Euro folks pay the same for a lesser product.)

MS will just laugh all the way to the bank!

Edited June 30, 2009 by MeetJohnDoe

[sjaak327]

Oh and by the way, the article has it wrong in some cases, as it is not double the price, they are comparing full version pricing (as with this decision, there are no upgrade version in Europe) in Europe with upgrade prices in the US.

Nice one Neelie

Half of Europe will probably get Win 7 through grey import now

[garyh]

Anything that prevents a system from Microsoft from going online has to be a good idea imho.

Could one imagine how much time and money has been spent fixing MS problems by the myriad of IT techs across the globe since the intertubes became popular? Imagine a cyber-world without ActiveX, dotNet, C#, DirectX et al and you will see what the tubes (and computing) could have been.

Microsoft is the ultimate pox on computing; they try to buy and/or stifle any competing ideas and when they can't they come up with some ludicrously inept replacement which is rammed down the throats of everybody.

Microsoft should be thanked for creating so many jobs in the IT industry.

[bdenner]

Firefox is a zillion times better than IE, and free, but only morons use IE as their default internet browser.

Shlt I'm glad I use Firefox. Wouldn't fancy to be tagged as a moron by such a learned person as yourself!

[Phil Conners]

I doubt many people will pay this kind of money for an OS. Result: Either they will pirate windows or move to Linux.

[yeti]

Just to clarify some points, the European Commission never asked M$ to remove IE from Windows, they are (still) asking M$ to offer a choice of browsers.

And I really don't see why this prevents M$ from having upgrade versions in Europe

As for treating European companies with kids gloves, or even just nicer than non european companies, it really doesn't seem to be the case (but of course non-european news organisations will not report on european companies being fined by the EU).

[MeetJohnDoe]

Just to clarify some points, the European Commission never asked M$ to remove IE from Windows, they are (still) asking M$ to offer a choice of browsers.

And I really don't see why this prevents M$ from having upgrade versions in Europe

As for treating European companies with kids gloves, or even just nicer than non european companies, it really doesn't seem to be the case (but of course non-european news organisations will not report on european companies being fined by the EU).

As to your first point...Wrong! These "competition" commissioners [all lawyers and economists by training most likely], who don't know the first thing about computer programming or software development are basically trying to design Windows to some pre-conceived notion they picked-up somewhere (often from MS's competitors) of what an operating system is and what it's supposed to do. I guess with regulators like this, it's no wonder Europe has no world class computer hardware or software companies.

As to the second...like I said, it's all just a coincidence.

Edited July 1, 2009 by MeetJohnDoe

[yeti]

The background of the members and bureaucrats of the European Commission doesn't change anything to the fact that the EC is asking M$ to provide a choice between several internet browsers, and never asked M$ to strip IE from Windows. They asked (and are still asking) that when you install or first run Windows you are given the choice of which browser you want to install.

[SoMeOnEnUlL]

As to your first point...Wrong! These "competition" commissioners [all lawyers and economists by training most likely], who don't know the first thing about computer programming or software development are basically trying to design Windows to some pre-conceived notion they picked-up somewhere (often from MS's competitors) of what an operating system is and what it's supposed to do. I guess with regulators like this, it's no wonder Europe has no world class computer hardware or software companies.

So, world class computer hardware or software companies use Microsoft Windows Server? All the big corporations use Unix Server. I think more than 80% of the website of the entire internet are hosted on Linux. Even Microsoft uses Linux to steal the codes from it.

[AjarnChan]

Oh and by the way, the article has it wrong in some cases, as it is not double the price, they are comparing full version pricing (as with this decision, there are no upgrade version in Europe) in Europe with upgrade prices in the US.

Nice one Neelie

Half of Europe will probably get Win 7 through grey import now

Actually I read that Europeans will be able to get the Full Version [bugs included] of Windows 7 which will sell at the 'Upgrade Price' in Europe

So who should make decisions for Europe then ? Elected Europeans or the board of Microsoft ? Sorry to dissappoint you but there are now over 500,000,000 Europeans in the EU, and the total is rising. Europe finally has a more or less united voice, and you can expect to hear more. As always if you do not like it then vote with your feet. Same goes for Microshaft Bloatware, many sensible people simply use Linux anyway.

Quote: In a letter to the FT today Bill Veghte [Microsoft Executive] said: "We will not have an upgrade version available in Europe when we release the new operating system. Therefore, we've decided to offer the full version of Windows 7 to all customers at the lower upgrade price. In the future we may have an upgrade offering of Windows 7 available in Europe, and at that time we would revert to differential pricing."

Not sure who it was that said 'never let the facts get in the way of a good story', but things don't change ;}

[MeetJohnDoe]

They asked (and are still asking) that when you install or first run Windows you are given the choice of which browser you want to install.

Do you really think the average computer using Pierre Q Public gives a flying-fhuk what browser they use to surf the net? And anyone with a minimum of computer expertise knows there are many alternative browsers only a click away that they can download.

Internet browsing functionality is an integral part of modern day computing and any OS provider would be remiss if they did not provide it BUILT-INTO their OS. As long as MS doesn't do anything to disable or limit the functinality of 3rd party browsers, it's really none of the Commission's business what MS does with Windows.

Edited July 1, 2009 by MeetJohnDoe

[sjaak327]

Oh and by the way, the article has it wrong in some cases, as it is not double the price, they are comparing full version pricing (as with this decision, there are no upgrade version in Europe) in Europe with upgrade prices in the US.

Nice one Neelie

Half of Europe will probably get Win 7 through grey import now

Actually I read that Europeans will be able to get the Full Version [bugs included] of Windows 7 which will sell at the 'Upgrade Price' in Europe

So who should make decisions for Europe then ? Elected Europeans or the board of Microsoft ? Sorry to dissappoint you but there are now over 500,000,000 Europeans in the EU, and the total is rising. Europe finally has a more or less united voice, and you can expect to hear more. As always if you do not like it then vote with your feet. Same goes for Microshaft Bloatware, many sensible people simply use Linux anyway.

Quote: In a letter to the FT today Bill Veghte [Microsoft Executive] said: "We will not have an upgrade version available in Europe when we release the new operating system. Therefore, we've decided to offer the full version of Windows 7 to all customers at the lower upgrade price. In the future we may have an upgrade offering of Windows 7 available in Europe, and at that time we would revert to differential pricing."

Not sure who it was that said 'never let the facts get in the way of a good story', but things don't change ;}

That was my point, the decision aren't made by elected Europeans, this woman doesn't have a democratic mandate. But the main issue is, she doesn't do what she is suppose to do, that is to tackle monopolist and hence make sure that Europeans are able to get better prices, as it stands now, we are getting just the opposite. Not to mention the fact, that it seems that this is an action directly solely at Microsoft, or can I now be sure that Apple is going to offer me a way of installing a browser other then Safari, If I choose to upgrade to Snow Leopard ? Probably not, and why would they, the same should then also apply to Microsoft.

If you really think about the issue, and if you know a little bit about the computer industry, you would know that it simply doesn't make sense, and that forcing or asking Microsoft to offer people a choice of browser whilst installing Windows is not really feasible, nor is it something that people want. If they don't want to have IE8, it does cost 5 minutes to download and install another browser. What is next, Windows Media player ? Oh yeah that's right, that was that special mandated European version of Vista (dubbed N if I'm not mistaken), the worst selling SKU in the vista line, maybe an indication that the people who this woman is representing are not waiting for a Windows version that is stripped from functionality.

[yeti]

Just a point about the EC: commissioners are chosen by democratically elected governments and the commission is voted in by democratically elected MPs, so they have a democratic mandate (even if an indirect one).

As for Apple, their market share in the computer market is minor that's why the antitrust bodies leave them alone.

[tomartoh]

Who cares what it costs in Europe or the UK or the US. whats it going to cost in Thailand???? Still a hundred bahts???

[KhaoNiaw]

Just a point about the EC: commissioners are chosen by democratically elected governments and the commission is voted in by democratically elected MPs, so they have a democratic mandate (even if an indirect one).

You have a rather different notion of what constitutes a democratic mandate than I do. It's not just the commissioners. There's a whole European bureaucracy imposing its will on ordinary people without being answerable to those people in any way whatsoever.

[yeti]

The European bureaucrats answer to the commissioners the same way bureaucrats in each country answer to their ministers (who by the way are not directly elected by the people). European policy reflects the political colors of the EU, ie overwhelmingly rightist at the moment with 21 governments out of 27 and the PPE not very far from the absolute majority in the european parliament.

When your government tells you that everything bad comes from the EU and everything good is the result of their own efforts, it's BS that most people believe. Whenever the EC wants to pass a regulation, they have to discuss it with the parliament (elected by the people) and then get approval by the governments (elected by the people). When a government says the commission imposes something it's just bullshit, as the governments can oppose or change whatever the commission proposes.

[yeti]

At the end of the day, this is the big deal. Microsoft and EU both know this.

-Pekka

It's also a big deal because most people don't change the settings of the programs they install, like the default search engine, and there is a lot of money being made by ads on search results.

And the web browsers is probably going to become the media most people are using to get their news, so a quasi monopoly on web browsers could have a lot of effects on which information are available to most people.

[sjaak327]

At the end of the day, this is the big deal. Microsoft and EU both know this.

-Pekka

It's also a big deal because most people don't change the settings of the programs they install, like the default search engine, and there is a lot of money being made by ads on search results.

And the web browsers is probably going to become the media most people are using to get their news, so a quasi monopoly on web browsers could have a lot of effects on which information are available to most people.

It's like don quichot fighting against windmills that don't exist...

There is no quasi monopoly on web browsers on Microsoft part, as IE has consistently been loosing market share to Firefox Chrome and Opera the last years, so Neelie's interference in the matter is not needed.

We as European citizens can make our own choices thank you very much, now can I just get the full Windows 7 please ? and yes Neelie That includes IE8, which I happen to like very much.

[RKASA]

The background of the members and bureaucrats of the European Commission doesn't change anything to the fact that the EC is asking M$ to provide a choice between several internet browsers, and never asked M$ to strip IE from Windows. They asked (and are still asking) that when you install or first run Windows you are given the choice of which browser you want to install.

Why should MS install someone else's software.  Its none of the EU's business what browser they put in their software, read the part about thier software.  You have chioce after you get on line many millions of people do just that everyday.   This is all about taxing a US software company a billion dollars at a time.  MS removed the iE to anger the users at the EU and I think its working.  Still I try not to use any of the stuff and I am not a big fan of MS but they are being mistreated by the EU in this case.  Browser smowser get a life EU.  Start your own real software company or something.  or maybe stop backing down on standards and taking payoffs to let MS do what they want so nobody can even exchange a document without using MS.  This is the part of the issue that proves what BS the browser thing really is.  Please don't pay any attention to what the other hand is doing.

[Rawkus]

Can you use the add/remove programs thingy to remove IE from any version of Windows?

The issue is *not* MS bundling a browser with their OS, it is the fact that they decided to make it an integral part of the operating system, and then claimed that Windows needed IE in order to function.

It is easy to remove Apple's Safari browser if needed, you just drag the app to the trash, it is also easy to remove any browser from all the Linux distros by either trashing them or removing the executable rights of the program.

[RKASA]

Don't bother to remove it then.   My distro of Linux comes with the Kong browser I don't use it online I never felt the need to removed it. I download and install Opera.  I do the same with every install of windows, My chioce.  This is a non issue made up problem and an excuse for the EU to pretend to be doing something.  Try exchanging documents or that modem that won't work without IE thats because they won't stand up for standards and making MS provide Opera or FF won't fix that.  Why not also make them provide Open Office the complete suite after all not everyone wants to pay for word or whatever its called nor do they want to use the intergated software they provided.  Where does it end?  Maybe when MS is charging EU resellers 5x the reg. price.  What about banks that have lazy webmasters and you need IE to bank there.  Thats not even MS's fault but stop backing down from setting standards and the problem goes away completely.  The EU doesn't have the nuts to do anything about that so they use this issue.  If MS wants IE in the system so be it, if your not happy about that don't buy it.  So why does the US not make such standards, because its the same problem of payoffs and fake issues that drive the debate, but at least they are not extorting money from MS.