British/uk Pensions

[patklang]

The rules changed recently. To get a full pension (when you're 65) you need 30 years of contributions. Best get in touch with the Pension Service as above.

I think you will find that this starts from April 2010.

[tmd5855]

One thing i DO know is with regard to your #4

Its a case of just being out of the country for only ONE year that make you lose your entitlement to free non emergency NHS treatment

I had the actual act saved to my hard drive, but cant find it now, but there are plenty of references to it elsewhere:

"

"All patients, regardless of their status or nationality are subject to the same basic screening process and should be asked the following question about their residential status as part of the hospital registration procedure:

• Where have you lived for the last 12 months?

• Can you show that you have the right to live here?

A person who has not been living in the UK for the last 12 months is subject to the NHS (Charges to Overseas Visitors) Regulations and can therefore expect to be asked further questions such as,

• On what date did you arrive in the UK?

• What is the basis for your stay in the UK?

Patients who are unable to provide answers to these questions, or whose answers indicate that they may not be eligible for free hospital treatment should be referred to the NHS trust's Overseas Visitors Manager, who will conduct a full interview with the patient to establish whether he/she is chargeable. However, immediately necessary treatment should never be delayed or withheld because of doubts about the patient's chargeable status or his/her ability to pay."

Taken from:

http://www.shelteroffshore.com/index.php/health/more/living-abroad-medical-insurance-nhs-treatment-10272/

Penkoprod

You are correct but missing one point/thing?

No longer resident for tax purposes in the UK. I have a Thai address that all goverment agencies know about and mail too.

I may not pay income tax but I do pay Nat Ins at class 1. That still entitles me to all benefits from our wonderful goverment (Whether Tory or Labour).

1) You pay Nat ins for 30 years you get a full old age pension.

2) You can elect to pay Class 2, around £100.00 PA. You still get full oap pension and access to NHS. Except no job seekers allowance (Honest been there).

3) When you start to draw your old age pension can be fraught? Why.

A) If you live outside the EU and a few designated other countries. Amount you draw is frozen. You will not receive any increases after that date. There are some test cases being fought, one is with people living in Australia.

Best advice is to contact said people direct.

Been trying to get those Charity and residence people in Newcastle to allow me Class 2 status. But since I am classed as a Merchant Navy officer not allowed.

On another angle, I am unable to claim Merchant Navy tax benefits because HMRC class me as an offshore worker.

Charity and residence people will not allow me to pay class2 Nat Ins since they class me as Merchant Navy??

Confused

Edited July 3, 2009 by tmd5855

[Penkoprod]

You are correct but missing one point/thing?

No longer resident for tax purposes in the UK. I have a Thai address that all goverment agencies know about and mail too.

I may not pay income tax but I do pay Nat Ins at class 1. That still entitles me to all benefits from our wonderful goverment (Whether Tory or Labour).

And here is where you are wrong......NHS care is based on RESIDENCY and NOT contributions:

What about British Nationals? I have paid taxes in the past.

Nationality or past or present payments of UK taxes and National Insurance contributions are not taken into consideration when establishing residence. The only thing relevant is whether you ordinarily live in the UK.

That was taken from the NHS site itself at:

http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Healthcare/Entitlementsandcharges/OverseasVisitors/Browsable/DH_074374

Penkoprod

[tmd5855]

You are correct but missing one point/thing?

No longer resident for tax purposes in the UK. I have a Thai address that all goverment agencies know about and mail too.

I may not pay income tax but I do pay Nat Ins at class 1. That still entitles me to all benefits from our wonderful goverment (Whether Tory or Labour).

And here is where you are wrong......NHS care is based on RESIDENCY and NOT contributions:

What about British Nationals? I have paid taxes in the past.

Nationality or past or present payments of UK taxes and National Insurance contributions are not taken into consideration when establishing residence. The only thing relevant is whether you ordinarily live in the UK.

That was taken from the NHS site itself at:

http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Healthcare/Entitlementsandcharges/OverseasVisitors/Browsable/DH_074374

Penkoprod

Okay

Will put it another way.

Have a NT coding which means.

"Not normally resident for the purposes of taxation" Quote.

I am not normally resident for paying of tax since I work abroad and live 50% of my leave abroad other 50% (90 days a year) in the UK.

So still resident for all benefits.

Every person circumstances can be different, you may be right on never going back to the UK but I return for one week every 2 months. So entitled to all NHS benefits even after 6 years

You must be careful when applying one outcome to all scenarios.

If my original post when read could mislead, apologies

[Penkoprod]

Okay

Will put it another way.

Have a NT coding which means.

"Not normally resident for the purposes of taxation" Quote.

I am not normally resident for paying of tax since I work abroad and live 50% of my leave abroad other 50% (90 days a year) in the UK.

So still resident for all benefits.

Every person circumstances can be different, you may be right on never going back to the UK but I return for one week every 2 months. So entitled to all NHS benefits even after 6 years

You must be careful when applying one outcome to all scenarios.

If my original post when read could mislead, apologies

Again, you are not reading ALL.

There is a WORLD of difference between being "Not normally resident for the purposes of taxation" and not being resident in the counry for a period of 12 months or more....which the rules for NHS qualification state you will not be entitled to any free care etc

In fact they are 2 entirely different worlds. One is for tax avoidance, the other isnt

ALL people that spend a period of 12 months out of the country are disqualified from free NHS care, according to the legislation. That is the ONLY scenario there is !!!!

You are confusing things by thinking that there are different scenarios. You yourself said you dont spend 12 months out of the country, so THATS why you qualify for the NHS care. NOT any other reason/scenario you might think applies to you

Penkoprod

[mickba]

Again, you are not reading ALL.

There is a WORLD of difference between being "Not normally resident for the purposes of taxation" and not being resident in the counry for a period of 12 months or more....which the rules for NHS qualification state you will not be entitled to any free care etc

In fact they are 2 entirely different worlds. One is for tax avoidance, the other isnt

ALL people that spend a period of 12 months out of the country are disqualified from free NHS care, according to the legislation. That is the ONLY scenario there is !!!!

You are confusing things by thinking that there are different scenarios. You yourself said you dont spend 12 months out of the country, so THATS why you qualify for the NHS care. NOT any other reason/scenario you might think applies to you

Penkoprod

It sounds as though you've done more homework than I have, so is my recollection correct that, after that first year, you have to spend at least 26 weeks/year in UK to qualify as a resident.

I know some people in receipt of Pension Credits (60-65) who are operating on that understanding (and one or two others that are not ).

[Maizefarmer]

On the other hand you could disregard all the BS that's been posted in this thread, pitch up in the UK and say that you are intending to live in the uk from here on in. Show me any GP in the UK that will refuse to treat a UK citizen who walks through his door and and I'll show you Beelzebub's boyfriend.

Just what are the real world chances some admin cleark going to quizz you about res status? Next to zero I would have thought. It wouldn't even occur to them.

How does it affect diplomats - what about those 1000's of folk who work for the gov overseas? - they can work overseas and are still entitled to NHS care, but non-gov working Brits overseas are not? What about NGO workers?

Youre quite right - in reality so long as you give a UK address (and have a UK accent) its going to be a non-issue - anyway, when last did someone in an NHS hospital ask to see your passport (?), and in any event, the Border Agency doesn't stamp UK citizens in/out the UK.

[Penkoprod]

It sounds as though you've done more homework than I have, so is my recollection correct that, after that first year, you have to spend at least 26 weeks/year in UK to qualify as a resident.

I know some people in receipt of Pension Credits (60-65) who are operating on that understanding (and one or two others that are not ).

Are you talking about the NHS qualification question?

If so, then the background to this is that when the bill went for its second reading in the House of Lords, in, i think, 1989 there was an amendment proposed as you stated........26 weeks would make you "ordinarily resident" again. This was then passed by them and remains unaltered to this day. Waiting to trip up the unsuspecting, who STILL believe in the old "from cradle to grave" shit.

The homework i did also led me to some other nasty shit about what constitutes "non-emergency treatment" and what doesnt.

But this isnt the place or thread to discuss them, but it sure was an eyeopener, i can tell you.

The single most thing i found about all this that was the most unpalattable was that a non British national wouldnt get a bill for THEIR treatment, but it would be sent to their country of origin. I would like the same applied to me/us, but i think i would be pissing against the wind asking for it

Penkoprod

[Penkoprod]

Just what are the real world chances some admin cleark going to quizz you about res status? Next to zero I would have thought. It wouldn't even occur to them.

How does it affect diplomats - what about those 1000's of folk who work for the gov overseas? - they can work overseas and are still entitled to NHS care, but non-gov working Brits overseas are not? What about NGO workers?

Youre quite right - in reality so long as you give a UK address (and have a UK accent) its going to be a non-issue - anyway, when last did someone in an NHS hospital ask to see your passport (?), and in any event, the Border Agency doesn't stamp UK citizens in/out the UK.

Believe me, this is happening more and more as the "swipable" passports come into play an we get more and more into debt as a country.

Did you know, for instance, that there is a building in Wythenshawe specifically built to track every British citizens travel details?

this can then be shared with all number of government departments. Dont believe me? Go look for yourself:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/travel/news/article5683677.ece

When i was at a hospital, at a "pre op" clinic (no......not THAT type of pre-op!!!! ) the admin clerk was processing a claim for an ambulance ride against another NHS trust. So to say what the chances are of it happening i would say...............increasing all the time.

Penkoprod

[theoldgit]

[and in any event, the Border Agency doesn't stamp UK citizens in/out the UK.

No, but they swipe passports in, and the airlines swipe them on the way out, this info will shortly be going into the UKBA, e-borders main frame.

Big Brother is getting nearer.

[thaimate]

when we were in the uk we got child benifit ,i moved and cancelled the benifit ,they sent us cheque after cheque which i returned explaining that we were being paid twice , n ireland and england ,they kept on sending the money it took a long time for them to take any notice .believe me the left hand doesnt know what the right hand is doing ,forget big brother .most working in these depts seem to stupid to switch on their computers .why do you think so much money is lost to fraud?

[mickba]

.............................................Youre quite right - in reality so long as you give a UK address (and have a UK accent) its going to be a non-issue - anyway, when last did someone in an NHS hospital ask to see your passport (?), and in any event, the Border Agency doesn't stamp UK citizens in/out the UK.

Methinks you dream. A blissful state perhaps, but the clock is ticking on this one.

It may be true that someone has to switch on their computer at present, but with the bar coded and now the RFID chipped passport(go google) it'll soon be a small step for "where were you then?" to be readily and automatically available to HM R&C and any other agency.

Those here gleefully receiving their winter heating allowance (yes,sour grapes because I've been rumbled already) and other benefits and tax credits may find they have troubles ahead. The UK govt. is going to need all the cash they can find and I don't imagine there'll be any compunction about clawing it back from us rich expats.

[phitsanulokjon]

I am 51 now, I left England in 1989. I worked from the age of 17 to 31. Will I be eligible for a UK pension when I'm old enough for the time I worked? Anyone in a similar situation or have any good advice. Cheers.

I'm just working out my position on a similar basis (I'm 40 with 20 years stamp paid, 2 years missing).

30 years stamp is needed to get full pension at 65. you can pay up for lost years i.e years when you paid no stamp and it works out about £600 for each year (at least for me - not sure if rate is different for each individual). I'm trying to find out if there is a time limit for how many years you can back pay.

You can get an individual pension forecast by contacting Inland Rev/Customs & Excise and forms to pay up extra stamp.

[mickba]

It sounds as though you've done more homework than I have, so is my recollection correct that, after that first year, you have to spend at least 26 weeks/year in UK to qualify as a resident.

I know some people in receipt of Pension Credits (60-65) who are operating on that understanding (and one or two others that are not ).

Are you talking about the NHS qualification question?

If so, then the background to this is that when the bill went for its second reading in the House of Lords, in, i think, 1989 there was an amendment proposed as you stated........26 weeks would make you "ordinarily resident" again. This was then passed by them and remains unaltered to this day. Waiting to trip up the unsuspecting, who STILL believe in the old "from cradle to grave" shit.

...............snipped.

Penkoprod

The NHS question is indeed a big one, but I was talking about UK residency qualification generally (i.e. when you don't qualify) which is increasingly an issue for anyone who follows the rules (or gets caught out).

It affects many benefits and tax credits. It can affect your qualification to sponsor offspring through university. You will find it difficult to get car insurance if you nip back. It's in the small print for having many UK bank accounts. There are other examples, but of course (back on topic) it affects your state pension i.e. it's frozen.

Many of us are lying our way through this and taking our chances at being caught, but it's getting increasingly easy for them to check on where we are and, in particular how long we spend in UK.

[ignis]

Myself 60 next B’day have been sorting out my pension with Newcastle…

Had to send my Forms for the years I worked in Germany, Holland and Portugal, these years have now all been added to my UK Pension Entitlement,…

The outcome to be entitled to the full pension I need to pay 3 more years, the cutoff date to start paying this voluntary payment is March 2012 if I want to [letter states see Financial Advice for more information on if these payment are needed]

Also living in Thailand I must have a UK bank account where the pension will be paid in to, as Thailand is not one of the Countries that UK pensions are sent to.

[theoldgit]

Also living in Thailand I must have a UK bank account where the pension will be paid in to, as Thailand is not one of the Countries that UK pensions are sent to.

They told me that as I no longer have a UK address and as a result no UK bank account they will post a sterling cheque to my Thai address, though friends have told me they have encountered delays in getting these cheques cleared.

I understand that there are a number of other options, I believe that they will pay into bank accounts in counties such as Singapore, though I have not confirmed this. I have asked that if I open an offshore account, with say The Nationwide in The Isle of Man, can they pay my pension into that account, they have confirmed they will and The Nationwide have confirmed that I can open an account whilst in Thailand. The Nationwide does not offer an atm card on this account but will transfer to a Thai account via Internet Banking.

I am sure there must be other ways round this.

[Wiresok]

I got a projection a couple of weeks back.

I was a bit concerned about if I had enough qualifying years for the full pension, as last time I checked it was 44 years.

They told me I already qualified for full pension as I had 35 years against the now required 30 years.

Well done Labour for reducing that , a job well done.

Also I was told I qualified for state second pension ( some contracted out ) and some graduated retirement benefit.

All in all at least 150 notes in todays money.

[pattayapip]

Very informative link, Thanks

The countries with which the UK has social security agreements with are: Barbados, Bermuda, Bosnia-Hercegovina, Croatia, Israel, Jamaica, Jersey and Guernsey, Mauritius, Montenegro, Philippines, Serbia, Turkey, USA, and the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia.

http://www.thepensionservice.gov.uk/ipc/faqs.asp

[rak sa_ngop]

Also living in Thailand I must have a UK bank account where the pension will be paid in to, as Thailand is not one of the Countries that UK pensions are sent to.

They told me that as I no longer have a UK address and as a result no UK bank account they will post a sterling cheque to my Thai address, though friends have told me they have encountered delays in getting these cheques cleared.

I understand that there are a number of other options, I believe that they will pay into bank accounts in counties such as Singapore, though I have not confirmed this. I have asked that if I open an offshore account, with say The Nationwide in The Isle of Man, can they pay my pension into that account, they have confirmed they will and The Nationwide have confirmed that I can open an account whilst in Thailand. The Nationwide does not offer an atm card on this account but will transfer to a Thai account via Internet Banking.

I am sure there must be other ways round this.

I would think that most UK-offshore (i.e. Jersey, Guernsey, Isle of Man) banks will let you open a sterling account with a Thai address (although now that I think of it I remember a previous thread that one well-known bank has refused new accounts for Thai residents because of fraud risks).

The problem for some people will be satisfying the proof of identity requirements, generally needing two original bank statements or utility bills in the name and address of the applicant (translated into English if necessary) together with a certified copy of passport (visit to British Consulate). PO Box addresses are not acceptable.

The cost of making a ITT varies with amount but I believe that the lowest rate for the Bank of Scotland Int. is 15 GBP, so probably would not be worth making a monthly transfer.

[ignis]

Not sure if you can still open a new account with an overseas address

FirstDirect internet banking which is part of HSBC, simple to transfer money to HSBC in Bangkok

Edit: FD Bank ATM and C Cards are sent to me here, I must pick them up at HSBC Bangkok

Edited July 12, 2009 by ignis

[theoldgit]

The problem for some people will be satisfying the proof of identity requirements, generally needing two original bank statements or utility bills in the name and address of the applicant (translated into English if necessary) together with a certified copy of passport (visit to British Consulate). PO Box addresses are not acceptable.

The cost of making a ITT varies with amount but I believe that the lowest rate for the Bank of Scotland Int. is 15 GBP, so probably would not be worth making a monthly transfer.

Certainly with Nationwide they need a copy of your passport, or other photo id, and a utility bill or the like to prove your address and they do have to be certified by a consular official, lawyer or police officer [don't think I will do that] they do say that if you are visiting the UK you can go into any Nationwide branch with your docs and they will certify them for free, they even provide a letter of instruction for the Nationwide staff.

You are of course correct about watching the transfer charges, Nationwide is £20, but I need to weigh this up against the cost of cashing a sterling cheque in Thailand. I am also in receipt of a Civil Service Pension and whilst they pay it into my Thai bank they buy Baht in the UK and I seem to be losing about 1.5 Baht in the Pound, this alone means that I will save every month even after paying the transfer fee, though I probably wouldn't do it monthly, and of course when I am eligible for my state retirement pension it will be much easier.

[steve187]

I am 51 now, I left England in 1989. I worked from the age of 17 to 31. Will I be eligible for a UK pension when I'm old enough for the time I worked? Anyone in a similar situation or have any good advice. Cheers.

I'm just working out my position on a similar basis (I'm 40 with 20 years stamp paid, 2 years missing).

30 years stamp is needed to get full pension at 65. you can pay up for lost years i.e years when you paid no stamp and it works out about £600 for each year (at least for me - not sure if rate is different for each individual). I'm trying to find out if there is a time limit for how many years you can back pay.

You can get an individual pension forecast by contacting Inland Rev/Customs & Excise and forms to pay up extra stamp.

Hi voluntary N I stamps are payable at the following rates 2007/08 £7.80, 2008/09 £8.10, 2009/10 £12.05, both of you can buy these weekly stamps and make up your pension rights, yes a maximum of 30 years stamps are needed and any less years paid are worked out on a pro rota basis, so if 30 years of contributions can not be achieved by paying voluntary stamps until you reach 65 (or 67 in a younger persons case), then buy back some missed years. to make up the 30 years,

phitsanulokjon you have plenty of time to pay enough stamps to get a full pension at 67, sk1max not sure if you will have enough stamps so you may have to buy some year/years back

here is some information taken from the telegraph in may 2006 - (The state retirement age, which is set to be 65 for men and women by 2020, will rise to 66 between 2024 and 2026, to 67 between 2034 and 2036 and to 68 between 2044 and 2046.)

pension forecasts can be obtained on line

[Thongkorn]

You left the Uk to build a better life , 20 years ago , good luck to you , why do you now want to claim money that you paid very little into,,You got your protection while you lived in the Uk ,free Schools . police , street lighting and all the usual utilitys , its like an insurance policy ,You have not paid into or contibuited any tax ,For the last 20 years. Also there is a new thing coming out that says if you leave the Uk and live abrord for a number of years you are not entitled to NHS care any more,I am not a racist but this is exactly the thing that is making the working class in Britain pisst off.The same thing has happend in Spain ,People that left Britain for a so called better life, now they are begging to come back to the Uk, because they have no money , Sorry to say but what happened to the better life, I bet they called Britain all the names under the sun when they left , but it looks a better propositon when you have no money ,health care ,or pension.Good luck to you . This is only my oppinion and i am sorry if i offend you,

[theoldgit]

^^^^^^^

I believe the rule about people moving overseas not being able to claim NHS is already in force and I think that you lose the right after two years (only think), though I doubt if I would be refused treatment if I pitched up in an emergency.

Having lived in Thailand for two years I would fall into this category even though I made NHS contributions for 44 years and pay £600 UK tax per month on my pension.

[personchester]

Also, from (i think) 2010, if you leave the country as a single man, you will remain a single man in the eyes of the DWP. In other words, dont expect to marry a Thai, and get a married mans pension, or a widows pension for your wife when you pass away.

Rule Britannia, huh??

Penkoprod

Is there a source for this potentially worrying information?

from april the 6th 2010 you will have to claim for your wife it will not be automatic ,however it does not matter who or where you are married to ,as long as it is legal and registered you can claim for your wife ,time consuming but backdated to retirement age .

i become 65 in march 2010 and the wife has a nat ins no from when we livesd in britain ,just think if my parents had waited a few more weeks i wouldnt have got the married mans allowence automatically.

as for bringing in o a ps to sign for their pensions ,what a vote winner ,cant see millions of pensioners trooping to sign on can you?

I indeed I can, OAP'S will of course not be delighted with this but they have no choice, if they don't appear they will get a reminder, and if they still don't show up, their pension payment will be stopped, so they will as a result report hastily, as indeed do those that are on the dole, otherwise they won't get their payments either, so they have no choice, end of story.

[ianh68]

Also, from (i think) 2010, if you leave the country as a single man, you will remain a single man in the eyes of the DWP. In other words, dont expect to marry a Thai, and get a married mans pension, or a widows pension for your wife when you pass away.

Rule Britannia, huh?? Penkoprod

Is there a source for this potentially worrying information?

from april the 6th 2010 you will have to claim for your wife it will not be automatic ,however it does not matter who or where you are married to ,as long as it is legal and registered you can claim for your wife ,time consuming but backdated to retirement age .

I have emailed the Pensions service on this worrying point. Will report back when I get a reply. I have also asked whether it matters if the marriage is only registered in Thailand or does it also have to be registered in the UK? Remember that if registered in the UK it is subject to UK divorce laws which are very different when it comes to distribution of property.

Yes but thats claiming for a wife you already have.

What about if you are 66 (say) and get married in Thailand AFTER you have left UK?

I am SURE there was newspaper articles and news report on television about this not so long ago now

But, all in all UK pensioners are getting SUCH a rough deal these days

Penkoprod

I would have thought the same procedure applies in both cases.

Edited July 12, 2009 by ianh68

[ianh68]

So far as NHS cover is concerned, I think most of us are thinking that we've lost our backstop of crawling on a plane back to the safe arms of Blighty. We can still do that, but we might find we have to pay, at least for the first 6 months, until we requalify for UK residency (am I right?) at which point, I believe our state pension would be increased to the current rate. Then we could come back here and still get that rate? I'm rambling now..........

I think your rambling makes a lot of sense.

Edited July 12, 2009 by ianh68

[Penkoprod]

^^^^^^^

I believe the rule about people moving overseas not being able to claim NHS is already in force and I think that you lose the right after two years (only think), though I doubt if I would be refused treatment if I pitched up in an emergency.

You lose it after being abroad for twelve months. And its been in force since 1989 or thereabouts

And you would never be refused treatment, but you may find you WILL be billed for it.

I got told that on the bottom of every letter i recieved from my NHS trust while awaiting an operation.

Not the usual wooleyheaded "might be" or "could well be" jargon they normally use in government circles, but............ WILL BE

Penkoprod

[steve187]

^^^^^^^

I believe the rule about people moving overseas not being able to claim NHS is already in force and I think that you lose the right after two years (only think), though I doubt if I would be refused treatment if I pitched up in an emergency.

You lose it after being abroad for twelve months. And its been in force since 1989 or thereabouts

And you would never be refused treatment, but you may find you WILL be billed for it.

I got told that on the bottom of every letter i recieved from my NHS trust while awaiting an operation.

Not the usual wooleyheaded "might be" or "could well be" jargon they normally use in government circles, but............ WILL BE

Penkoprod

When do the NHS check to see if anyone is entitled to treatment, My wife who is entitled has never been asked to prove it. she is registered at the doctors no proof asked for, received hospital treatment as an outpatient no proof asked for, So my point is that as my wife who is not recognized straight away as English has never been asked for proof, why would they ask someone that would be seen to be English at first glance, other than emergency treatment someone may have to re register as a patient with a GP, but how many people have been in the UK full time but have not seen a doctor for years?

[theoldgit]

When do the NHS check to see if anyone is entitled to treatment

Probably never, but they have the right to and they are told to do so, though I am sure they are so under resourced billing returning ex-pats and their spouses isn't at the top of their list.

For peace of mind we purchase health insurance if we go back for a holiday, it's a requirement for a trip to a Schengen country anyway, and at about 3500 Baht for the two of us for five weeks I think it's worth while doing.