30 day chops

[opalhort]

Just been to the border, i have 3 years worth of 30 day stamps, perfectly legal, (according to the immigration chief at the checkpoint who i made a point of asking to see), i border hopped for another 30 days, why does this practise come in for so much critisism, its legal, and for me convenient, so what is the problem. If the rules and regulations changed, i would have to alter my habits at that time, until then i will carry on as usual.

Do farangs here know more than an immigration officer?

I doubt that very much somehow.

The immigration Police give the stamps, not farangs with opinions.

Yes by law the "border hopping" is legal, but as so many laws in Thailand are very 'flexible' (not well defiened) and subject to interpretation, it may be considered illegal by some officers.

The 30-day visa rule was introduced a long time ago to attract more tourists and the Thai authorities did not think that this rule may be abused by some foreigners. Sad to say that too many foreigners have, and still do!, abused this rule. No wonder the government takes action.

Now they (the government) have realized the problem and they are cracking down on the abuse of this rule.

Every foreigner with a minimum of intelligence should know that staying in any foreign country long term requires a proper visa.!!!!!!!!!!!!

In Thailand that means a Non-O or Non-B visa at least!

opalhort

[parryhandy]

Just been to the border, i have 3 years worth of 30 day stamps, perfectly legal, (according to the immigration chief at the checkpoint who i made a point of asking to see), i border hopped for another 30 days, why does this practise come in for so much critisism, its legal, and for me convenient, so what is the problem. If the rules and regulations changed, i would have to alter my habits at that time, until then i will carry on as usual.

Do farangs here know more than an immigration officer?

I doubt that very much somehow.

The immigration Police give the stamps, not farangs with opinions.

Yes by law the "border hopping" is legal, but as so many laws in Thailand are very 'flexible' (not well defiened) and subject to interpretation, it may be considered illegal by some officers.

The 30-day visa rule was introduced a long time ago to attract more tourists and the Thai authorities did not think that this rule may be abused by some foreigners. Sad to say that too many foreigners have, and still do!, abused this rule. No wonder the government takes action.

Now they (the government) have realized the problem and they are cracking down on the abuse of this rule.

Every foreigner with a minimum of intelligence should know that staying in any foreign country long term requires a proper visa.!!!!!!!!!!!!

In Thailand that means a Non-O or Non-B visa at least!

opalhort

well i think your insulting the intelligence of the thai rule makers and the people on this forum.do you not think the thai people did not know how this rule would used by people ?

why do you try to distance yourself and point the finger at other people. i personally cant see the difference between people  staying here long term on 3 month visas or 30 day visas.i have a wife and child here and i use 30 day visas when it suits my needs and finances.other times i get a 3 month visa. both are perfectly legal and encouraged for the time being.

some people on here are acting very cowardly and trying to blame others on the imaginary stress they may be in.when the thai authorities consider their economy to be doing ok and their tourism industry sufficient they will no doubt change the rules as and when.there is nothing wrong with being a 30 year 30 day tourist if you can afford it because again it is perfectly legal.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Do the long term border hoppers really believe that they are bona fide tourists ?  The times they are a changin'. Primarily because of this type of abuse.

[Khun ?]

Do the long term border hoppers really believe that they are bona fide tourists ?  The times they are a changin'. Primarily because of this type of abuse.

Doc P

I see it the same also. Others will have to also pay the time

for the abuses. To much of a good thing can be bad for you.

It was so much over looked for years as it was not so much in abundance as it is now. The farang that feeds off other

farangs used this as a means for years to survive. It will be bad for alot of honest just want to live their life but it will also

weed out several of the bad elements (scammers) using dishonest techniques.  

How can so many give up earning a somewhat respectable life back home and think they can start a family and just earn enough to live meager lives in a foreign country. It is kind of like the blind leading the blind. What about when their children need to get a decent eductaion.

They have spent so much time of  just getting by they will have to try to go back home and have the tax payers there provide their children and families a means to survive. I would not want my tax $$$ to provide a washout who did not pay

taxes for years the benefits that should be earned. This is a very sore spot of mine.

Maybe if the government said fine you are welcome to put your life back together this is ok but we will not accept your dependants until you have a proper means to provide for them, after all we are not talking about someone who lost their work back home, we are talking about someone who gave up and lived a life in the tropics. These same people will expect the same old age benefits the rest of us paid for.

[Jai di]

I wonder how many people actually live in Thailand, seems like not too many.

Does it matter if you get a stamp for 3 days 30 days or 300 days? What difference can it possibly make, in fact getting stamps every 30 days gives the Thais a better idea of your whereabouts than a guy that had a years visa 11 months ago, i think they should scrap long term visa's, make everyone report every 30 days, what do you think?  

[danbo]

Do the long term border hoppers really believe that they are bona fide tourists ?  

Dr P - a visitor who wishes to stay long term and who is under 50, and not married to a Thai currently has no other option but to use b2b 30 day/tourist stamps/visas do they ?

Would it not be better to allow long term tourists to remain as long as they are able to prove that they are able to support themselves, as per spouses of Thais ?

* edited to add 2nd point after finishing breakfast - she who must be obeyed........

[ChiangMaiThai]

Do the long term border hoppers really believe that they are bona fide tourists ?  The times they are a changin'. Primarily because of this type of abuse.

My home, my job, my car, my family and my business are in the US. I have spent 7 months here visiting my girlfirend, taking in the sights and relaxing. If I'm not a toursit, what am I? Really, I want an answer here. Usually, when tough questions are posed to you, you simply avoid them and come back with another one liner. This time, taking into account my situation, please explain how I am not a tourist. And if I am not, what am I?

And if staying long term on the 30 day stamps is abuse of the system, then all the immigration officers need to do is tell us this. But they don't. They actually tell us that it is fine and there is no problem with it. Then you telll us it is abuse of the sytem. Then I say I'm confused. Then you say I'm a dummie. I should PISS OFF and you will ban me once I'm nicked.

Thanks again for the constructive words of advice.

[Indo-Siam]

I certainly do not think of using border turns and 30-day "visas" (actually entry permits) on arrival as illegal.  I see no chance that anyone would ever be arrested for this.  What is certainly posible is that one day they will simply deny practitioners any further entries.

A true "visa" issued by an overseas diplomatic post is authorization to enter Thailand from a fairly high legal authorizing entity (check that Garuda emblem).  Lacking this, the granting of an entry pemit upon arrival is purely at the discretion of the border official, or his upward reporting chain.

When I hear that some border posts have been photocopying entire passport contents, and requiring in-bound turn-around practioners to sign each page showing a 30 day "visa on arrival", it seems apparrent that at least some border posts are preparing to execute a change in policy. Such preparations do not mean that it will happen.

As I see it, Thailand practices a logical spectrum of policy implementation - they ratchet their procedures up or down, as the situation dictates.  One week, there are no blue-uniform special police roaming the BTS stations - the next week they are patrolling in pairs, and the following week it is single policemen.  Starting last week, two blue-uniform police with M-16 rifles started protecting the J.W. Marriott - one patrols the two sidewalks (Suk and Soi 2), the other guards the delivery ramp next door to Blue Wave Pool Bar.  Security levels ramp up and down.  The same probably applies to border crossings.

If - next week - a bomb levels the All-Seasons Place Conrad Hotel, resulting in a terrorist cell with members from 10 countries being busted in Kanchanaburi, and all are found to have entered at various border crossings using passports that were full of fake entry and exit stamps - how long do you figure it will take for border crossings to shut down entries without a formal visa?  And I'm talking about minutes or hours, not days or weeks for Thailand to react.

I will bet that Thailand Immigration has a full contingency spectrum in place - and probably known and rehearsed at some level - including totally sealing the borders - depending on what is called for.   Remember - in the hours after the 9-11 bombing, the entire US shut down all civial air traffic, and sealed its borders.  If the US could do it, so can Thailand.

At some point, martial law can be declared, and non-immigrants told to leave the country within 48 hours.  Is there ANYONE here who does not believe that such a contingency is in place, however deeply buried?  I think that the chances of this happening are very small, but it is not out of the realm of possibility.

So -what is the chance that 30 day border turns will be eliminated?  In my view, this is the very next level on the scale to be implemented, from Thailand's present posture.  Why do I say that?  Because it seems to me that a number of border crossing points are already dusting off that procedure, and preparing themselves for implementation.  What will it take to trigger execution?  I can't say.  I'll bet that a surface to air missile bringing down a plane at Don Muang will do it - almost instantly.  I'd say there's maybe a 40% chance this will be implemented for 30 days in early October, just as extra assurance against problems during the APEC ministers meeting (and - trust me on this - Thailand could give a flying <deleted> about whining by anyone who uses 30 day border turns - we are less than even background noise when compared to Thailand's interest in having an uneventful APEC conference).  I will even go so far as to say that 10 days either side of the main APEC Conference, Thailand could give a toss less about any tourists arriving, other than APEC visitors.

So - everyone who lives on 30-day turns needs to ask themselves - "What do I think the likelihood is that something threatening will happen during the next 30 days?".  And - do I agree with Indo-Siam and his ilk that indications are that one of the very next tightening steps on the scale is likely to be to suspend (temporarily?)  issuance of 30 day entry permits on arrival?

It's for each individual to make his own call.  I've got a work permit and employment-based non-immigrant extry permit extension - I only have to worry about a blanket expelling of non-immigrants.  If I was on something as thin as my 35th consecutive visa on arrival, and watching the guys with M-16's patrolling the J.W. Marriott, and figuring that some jerk of an aspiring muslim activist is likely to at least toss a grenade or launch an RPG round sometime during APEC - just to demonstrate potency - I would be making my own contingency plans for a change in immigration practices - and for my next border turn, I'd be carrying a bag with a change of clothes and some toiletries, just in case I needed to stay and get a real tourist visa.  

"Up to you"

Steve

Indo-Siam

[Jai di]

Steve, if it becomes illegal to get a 30 day stamp, then i will change, till then, i will carry on, it suits me, i live 5 mins from the border (malaysian) so in fact it suits me very well, i dont have to pay anything at all.

If it ain't broke, why fix it?

[dropout]

Dr Pat Pong and Indo-Siam,

If and when they decide not to allow multiple entries on 30 day entry on arrival stamps then people will have to find alternatives.  If that happens and people on this board complain, so what, isn't that what message boards are for?  Why do you have to be so arrogant and antagonistic in your viewpoints? The point is that as long as you are accompanying your passport, going back and forth across the border every 30 days is a perfectly legal and valid way to stay in Thailand.   Who are you to determine whether repeatedly doing this is an abuse of the system?  Were you at the immigration dept meetings when this system was initially formulated or subsequently implement?  Obviously the authorities decided to allow people to repeatedly use this system to come back and forth across the border.  Clearly, at some point, they believed it was in the best interest of Thailand for people to be able to repeatedly go across the border using 30 day entry on arrival stamps.

I think what is most offensive about your posts is you seem to take personal delight in the difficulties being experienced by other people who enjoy staying in Thailand even those people who have fully complied with the legal requirements of staying here.  Why is that?  I get the impression that you don't want to share Thailand with other westerners and you are encouraging what appears to me to be increasing xenophobia on the part of the Thai populace.  Trust me, if things start to become more negative, Thais are going to become a lot more resentful of foreigners who, in their view, are investors or working at multinational co.s here, exploiting the natural resources of Thailand and taking their high paying jobs than people who are taking extended vacations using multiple 30 day entry stamps.  I'm not syaing this is rational but be careful of cheerleading further crackdowns and growing nationalism, you just might get what you ask for.

In particular, Dr. Pat Pong, it is clear from the pseudonym you have taken, that at least in the past you frequented the fine establishments that are your namesake.  Don't get me wrong, I enjoy frequenting those places myself, but surely, the legality of frequenting those establishments and partaking of their services is questionable not to mention morally dubious.  What if they decided to start raiding those joints and started arresting foreigners who are caught in them? If you were arrested while watching go-go dancers, I'll bet you would be the first to decry the lack of due process and fair warning.  I would venture to say that your primary reason for coming to Thailand, if not for staying, is the ready availability of Thai prostitutes.  Am I wrong?  If so why did you take on a name that designates the most famous red light district in the world?  Are you really someone the Thai people would consider a desirable immigrant?  Perhaps you should check your owm motivations before casting aspersions.  People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

[Indo-Siam]

Dropout -

I have no idea what you are talking about.  I have made one post on this thread.  Go back and read it.

I said I think there is nothing wrong, bad, or illegal about coming in repeatedly on 30-day entries on arrival. Go read it - 'got it?

I also said that I think this manner of entry is the most vulnerable to being restricted when Thailand starts ratcheting up the strictness level of national security.

What problem do you have with that?  Do you disagree with something I wrote?  If so, please feel free to pick out a point and show a counteragrument.  Don't just cry to me that I'm blackballing anybody.

You and a lot of other posters who address me personally in posts seem to misunderstand something fundamental about my approach toward board discussions.  I sometimes get abrasive with whining, crying, moaning types who come on here to enagage in group teeth-gnashing and hand-wringing - but otherwise make no original observations, suggestions, or any other useful contribution to knowledge.

Some posters just come on here and spout outrage.  Well, there is nothing wrong or illegal about that.  But - don't go into a tizzy when someone comes on and tries to lay out a logical explanation for WHY things are happening.  Particularly when it is laid out as a theory - with a proposal for how to predict what might happen in the future.

Invariably, the whiners who who came back browbeating me NEVER take issue with a specific theory or observation that I write.  They treat me as if I am the guy writing the Thai rules. All I do is state a hypothesis, and state supporting evidence for my theory.  This is called the scientific method.

Unless I missed something. my contribution to this thread laid out a proposed theory explaining what is actually going on, and what is likely to happen next, and why, that no one had previously proposed.  I did this as a contribution to the discussion - hopefully to draw out more observations that might give even better insight into the workings of the Thai system.

Now - please tell me what you find wrong with that contribution.  Don't come after me - go after what I wrote, and tell me where my evidence is faulty, or my logic is bad, or where you have a better theory.

And - please go read the first 30 words in my post, and tell me how you could address me in your post as having said the opposite.  

You and several other of your compatriots on this board appear to have great trouble compartmentalizing the various aspects of immigration.  You mix up other threads about people getting busted for illegal immigration activities and use of forged documents with unrelated discussions like this one - about the near-term likelihood of changes in the availabilty of legal 30 day entries on arrival.  

I do tend to make disparaging comments about people who have no substantive legal presence here, yet linger on in Thailand, and spout off on this and similar discussion boards about how critical the continued presence of them and their cohorts are to the continued survival of the Thai economy.  This is just so laughingly ridiculous that I cannot resist taking a poke.  They open threads specifically to proclaim how indispensible they are, and to criticize Thailand for imaginary crimes against civilization.  Well, when pompous n'er-do-wells stand up with a chip on their shoulders to claim how important they are, they better be prepared for some catcalls.

Thanks,

Steve

Indo-Siam

[dropout]

Perhaps, you should go back and read your own post wherein you end your thread by stating the following:

"and for my next border turn, I'd be carrying a bag with a change of clothes and some toiletries, just in case I needed to stay and get a real tourist visa"

This statement, in combination with the rest of the comments in your post, at the very least implies an opinion that a 30 day entry stamp is somehow less legitimate or appropriate, i.e. not a "real tourist visa", despite the fact that 95% of the tourists coming into the country from western countries use an entry stamp on arrival as the basis for touring the country.  

Your tone and statements regarding your possession of a work permit clearly express a sense of moral superiority that is clear to anybody reading your post.  Certainly you must know that having a work permit is no guarantee of your ability to stay in Thailand. In fact, with a work permit, its my understanding that if you lose your job for any reason, you have to leave the country within a few days so I guess you better always have a few toiletries, etc. packed and ready to go at any moment. And forget making any long term commitments such as owning a car and getting a lease. At least with a 30 day entry upon arrival, I know when I have to leave the country and can make suitable arrangements in advance.

In fact, I have a friend who does not want to get a work permit because he would rather, rightly or wrongly, stay here on his 3 million baht bank account non-imm b visa.  Perhaps then he is superior to you because he has a "real" business visa and cannot be kicked out just because he loses his job and his employer revokes his work permit.

You are apparently blind to the bias that the Thai govt. and authorities have against immigrants from rich countries, if they are not themselves rich, and, more particularly, westerners in enforcing their immigration laws, i.e. heightened income requirements for canadians and americans.  In fact, based on this post and your others posts, I would argue that you have become an apologist for their system.  Is their immigration system and their arbitrary enforcement efforts something you really feel comfortable supporting.

I think that what many of the posters are complaining about is the double standard that most westerners must deal with when it comes to trying to do business or anything else, for that matter, in Thailand.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Good for you Steve you answered. The name DROPOUT says it all I couldn't be bothered with him.

[sting01]

For the most part, I a gree with indo siam, and about the people who are crying, about the "legal" they used to stay here .....

The point of this  threat ( or topic) was only :

since 3 weeks the don't stop to speak about visa.... In wich country is it legal to buy a Visa in a shop owned by Uncle Jo or Auntie Daniel or GranMa Parker?

Some fellow expat where caught, and I repeat that, because it was some advertising about this kind of shop in some "WellKnow Webboard" . This is a point,> Another is Yes some of this shop was ruled by other fellow expats ...

If the local administration decide to enforce the law it can be good and that for everyboddy.

For my part I liked this webboard, because I get here many informations, accurate informations, but on this subject I think honestly, many posters and MODERATORS went Offtopics. Offtopics when they started to make people scare, Offtopic when they started also to give advices about how to cheat the local laws (I keep traces of all email I get...)

Then for those who were caught, I am sad, certainly some where just morons, not criminal, for those who have a full passport with fake stamps, I don't care, for the others, PLS Mr Adiministrators, do like in the past, give us acccurate informations. When the law about work permit will change, I mean about the 18 000 bht of personnal taxes/ year = a work permit?

I am fully interresting by this information. And I suppose I am not the only one

Sting

Roxanne

[bazza]

indo-siam .basically what you are saying is that its Ok for you to point the finger and poke fun at people , but if someone does the same to you , or dares to question your god complex you cry foul.......tut tut tut.

you just cant accept criticism of any kind can you.you have even turned off a few potential customers when you were touting for business on another thread.( you must be really hard up if you are resorting to that !) and the fact is many people have taken offence to your righteous bullshit.we cant all be wrong can we ?

instead of looking for the faults in others, how about first looking at the faults in yourself.

you talk about people "whining" and " moaning" but you yourself are guilty of doing exactly that. maybe you dont realise it, but you come across as a gloating know it all.and in a perverse kind of way i get the feeling you get a kick out of stiring the shit, to satisfy your over inflated sense of your own importance.

At the end of the day you are no more signifigant than the man in the street.

[taxexile]

indo siam

why are your posts delivered with such venom and contempt for those who may choose to do things differently to yourself?

they are written in a  despising,sarcastic,scoffing,snide,disapproving manner.

a lot of what you  say actually makes some sense,(once the doomsday hyperbole has been filtered out), but the manner in which you say it is bordering on the offensive.

i find it hard to believe that someone with such an attitude of intolerance could have survived in thailand for so long. i assume you have been here a while.

are your customers (i suppose you would call them clients)treated with such disdain? i doubt it.you are the victorian schoolmaster straight out of dickens,

if 30 day visas are stopped soon, well so what. at the moment they are legal and people are entitled to use them for as long as they are allowed to. why do you look down on them so ?

[opalhort]

I wonder how many people actually live in Thailand, seems like not too many.

Does it matter if you get a stamp for 3 days 30 days or 300 days? What difference can it possibly make, in fact getting stamps every 30 days gives the Thais a better idea of your whereabouts than a guy that had a years visa 11 months ago, i think they should scrap long term visa's, make everyone report every 30 days, what do you think?  

read your TM card!

there it states:

"4. In case of change of address from what is stated in this form must notify the immigration office within twenty-four hours."

and:

"5. Must notify your place of residence to the immigration office if you stay longer than ninety days and are required to do so every ninety days."

rule 4 is seldom enforced but rule 5 is very much enforced and carries a heavy fine if neglected, but nowadays this reporting can be done by mail.

opalhort

[Indo-Siam]

Dropout -

Do me a favor.  Look at my post which proposes that 30 day entry permits might cease at any time, as national security concerns play a role in Thai immigration policy.

Please tell me whether you agree or disagree that the continual availability of 30 day visas on arrival might be somehow be affected by terrorist-type events that unfold here in Thailand.

If you disagree, then state what you think might impact future availability - maybe phases of the moon?  Or perhaps the price of camel dung in Egypt?  We are all perhaps interested to hear your alternate theory.

If you agree with me, then what problem do you have with the idea that it might be good to be prepared for a situation where you are refused reentry on a border turn, and told to go get a proper visa? Like, maybe if you make your border run the day after JI blows up some hotel in Bangkok?

I live in the adult world, where I assess the future, and adjust my preparations for the most likely upcoming changes in how that world works.  If Thai immigration laws say that starting 1 January 2004, I must have XXX amount of money in a Thai bank, I make plans to comply with the rule.  You and your buddies just come on here and piss and moan about how awful it is, and how Xenophobic Thailand is, and how Thailand will go down the tubes without your beer money proming the economic engine.

You are the same sort of clown who will be back on this board 60 days from now crying about how evil the Thai immigration guys were for making you stay in Malaysia an extra two days to get an embassy-issued tourist visa AND YOU DIDN'T EVEN  HAVE A FRESH CHANGE OF CLOTHES.

Give me a break!

Steve

Indo-Siam

[dr_Pat_Pong]

CMT I am sorry but continuing to argue is a time waste your view is your view. I, unlike you, have things to do. The other hoppers are the same. Do it your way.

[Indo-Siam]

bazza, tax exile, and the rest of the malcontents -

Where have you ever gotten the idea that I consider 30 day entries on arrival to be bad, or low-class, or anything else, in and of themselves?

I have probably entered Thailand at least 50 or 60 times using entry permit on arrival - at various times for business or vacation visits, or commuting in and out when I was employed in a regional role here.

My post in this thread simply addresed the issue that 30 day VOA seem to me to be more likely to be eliminated, at some point in the national security response spectrum.

I mentioned martial law and expulsion of ALL non-immigrants - why did you clowns not come back and browbeat me on that?

I clearly stated my belief that there is a spectrum, and all possibilities lie somewhere on that spectrum. And I said that I see evidence that the place where Thailand presently is on the spectrum has - on its next notch toward tightening - the (perhaps temporary) elimination of 30 day VOA.

Where do you guys get the impression that this is somehow making a value judgement about the "quality" of 30 day VOA, and the people who use them?

You guys give me crap when I bring out experiences.  But you seem to doubt that I have some idea about what I am talking about.   I was in Southwestern Korea at the time of the 9-11 attack, attending a tradeshow.  I flew back to Bangkok a day later.  Quite a change boys - in airports that had just a pair of security guards and bored-looking immigration officials patrolling when I arrived, there were now several platoons of soldiers placed in various places inside the airport terminal.  Security and document inspections (and personal and baggage inspection) standards went up about 800%.  It took hours to clear immigration.

I've gone in and out of something like 32 countries, crossing borders maybe 400 times (the vast majority were visas on arrival) - Africa, Europe, North America, South America, and Asia.  I was an international sales manager.  So I have seen a few different sceanrios.  Does that mean I can predict what Thailand is going to do about 30 day visas with near-certainity?  No it doesn't.  Does it mean that I can probably offer an intelligent proposal for what might happen - maybe make the "short list" of theories?  I dunno - I can just try.

For the record - I have no feelings one way of the other about the value of 30 day VOA vs. 60 day tourist, vs 90 day non-immigrant entry permits - or the people who use them.

I do think that the moment Thailand decides to tighten immigration access - particularly in reponse to a perceived increase in threat to national securty, the 30 day VOA is likely to be a casualty.  Since I have lived here (arrived to stay April 2000), I have already seen the 30 day VOA eliminated for a number of nationalities - so I know that this is something that Thailand has changed in the past.  You guys simply can't get it throgh your heads that this is not a value judgement - this is a matter of adjusting routine security levels.

Steve

Indo-Siam

[taxexile]

You guys give me crap when I bring out experiences

your judgements and arguments are not at fault.

i give you crap because you are a pompous arse.

[Jai di]

My Friend that has been in Thailand for 7 years, popped over the border today, came back to my place , had a beer and a sandwich, 30 days time he will go again.

If policy changes in the future, he will pay for a visa, but when he lives 5 minutes from the Border, he cant see the point in paying for one now, when he can get a 30 day chop for free, same here, i don't see any point in it either. Certain people here seem to be on some moral crusade, haha, what a joke, think what you are doing in Thailand yourself first, i bet you never became a regular because of superior Moral values.

Give the 30 day merchants a break, we do no wrong , we are not dangerous criminals.  Some of the people here are obviously very shallow and puritanical, next time you are in a bar letching over some 20 year old girl, think about your own values and morals.

[Maigo6]

Jai di, i also cant see what possible harm you are doing, in fact you do no wrong, you are playing the system the best way you can, if i lived as close to the border as you do, i would do exactly the same. I work overseas so do not get affected by visa issues much, 30 day stamps cover my needs for when i come back to my place in Thailand, of course if the policy shifted to giving less than 30 days then i would get a visa, but that would only be for my own benefit, carry on Jai di, you are legal. Something antagonises certain people on this forum about 30 day stamps, god knows why. Maybe the people dont live in Thailand and are envious of you, who know's. Personally i do what is required of me, no more, no less, to #### with the crusaders!

[sting01]

Let say this is things who exist for now (30 days on arival) and things who WILL exist in the future (maybe the 30 days will disappear)

Indo Siam is right to warm those who use by now this kind of facilities, I don't think he is pompeous (POMPEI?) when he do that, it's an advice, and a good one , I think also this facility will be modified, it's not really normal to stay here many year with this kind of visa.

Whatever you will always have people who complain, and never comply to the laws ... and you will have people who will simply follow the rules.

Sting

[Maigo6]

Let say this is things who exist for now (30 days on arival) and things who WILL exist in the future (maybe the 30 days will disappear)

Indo Siam is right to warm those who use by now this kind of facilities, I don't think he is pompeous (POMPEI?) when he do that, it's an advice, and a good one , I think also this facility will be modified, it's not really normal to stay here many year with this kind of visa.

Whatever you will always have people who complain, and never comply to the laws ... and you will have people who will simply follow the rules.

Sting

The people getting a 30 day chop are compliant with the law as it stands today, what happens or may happen in the future is speculation by a group of farangs with some opinions.

Give the 30 day guys a break, i was at the airport when a chinese guy was paying his overstay 20,000 baht fine, he was 3 1/2 years overstay, 30 day guys are legal. And if they want to continue with border hops, why not, up to them!! They are legal.

Cheers

[Axel]

Well not much more I can add. I would not say legal, call it rather "not illegal".

Let's hope the exemption rule will not be cancelled and if revised, it will be done in a similar way as e.g. HKG, TPE and SIN are reacting. In these places, once the imm. became aware of the loophole they just gave internal watch lists, showing the nationalities of the major "travellers" arriving repeatedly without a visa and stay long time. Their records are checked more carefully and an entry is denied case by case or a reduced stay like 15 days is given and a verbal warning not to come back for the next 2-3 months. (Rest assured, the warning is posted in the im-computer)

I have no real personal interest in this subject, but feel strange to read the accusations back and forth this afternoon and a certain stubborness to the effect I do it, if they change I look for something else. Means a few don't care for the rest. I still call it an abuse of the rules and my comments are not speculation but come from own experience in other countries around Asia. Fine, let's do the same in Thailand, IT IS MY GOD GIVEN RIGHT and let's wait if (or when?) Thailand reacts as other countries did. What I really don't like are the personal attacks I had to read, which certainly are not necessary, even if you know each other,

[Maigo6]

Axel, also i do not have a personal interest myself in regards to visa problems, i am fortunate enough to work, earn a lot of money and spend it in Thailand.

My point is, 30 day stampers are legal, if not jai di's friend would not have got his latest chop would he. If the law changes people will also change their habits, what's the problem with that. Look at it this way, if Jai di's mate was on a 7 year overstay he could pay at a border 20,000 baht, end of story. He is legally in Thailand, stamped, in the computer, the same as i am when i return home.

Whatever you think about it, they are legally in Thailand, in the immigration computer system. Up to them how they do that, not a bunch of farangs on a forum, let the Immigration police do their job. Maybe they wont be able to do it ad infinitum, but as of today, they are legally here.

cheers

[Indo-Siam]

My critics on this thread are some of the strangest folks I have ever interacted with.  My initial post on this thread led of with (these are the exact lead-off words):

I certainly do not think of using border turns and 30-day "visas" (actually entry permits) on arrival as illegal.  I see no chance that anyone would ever be arrested for this.  What is certainly posible is that one day they will simply deny practitioners any further entries.

I have then been accused by about six people here of making noises to the effect that such crossings were illegal, or inferior, or somehow less than wholesome.  Other people have said those things - not me.  I do not share those views.

All I said was that 30 day VOA rules are probably most liable to be easily tightened in a national security situation.  Lot's of possibilities - deny consecutive uses beyond "x" number of instances;  require a minimum of "x" days outisde the country; reduce VOA duration to 15 days; disallow use of VOA at land border crossings (folks who cross borders by land are probably not as big spenders as folks who arrive by air - no value judgement there, just a statement of fact - it is not easy to transit Thailand's neighbors by land, if arriving from outside the region).

I make no claim to correctness of these possibilities to future scenarios  - I simply state them as possibilities to consider.

I have never started a thread on this entire discussion board.  But I will now commit to opening one thread.  On November 1st, I will open a thread in this section entitled "Visas on Arrival - the Aftermath".  Whatever the outcome, I will create that post, and we can all toss around the facts as they actually play out.  I have no idea whether any VOA rules will change by that date.  

Any problems with that?

Cheers!

Steve

Indo-Siam

[dropout]

Indo-Siam,

On two separate occasions you have concluded that in the very near future people coming to Thailand on 30 day entry on arrival will probably be required to obtain "proper" tourist visa, that they will be turned away from the border and gosh how funny that these type of people will probably be so stupid as to forget their toiletries and a change of clothes. Even if you are correct and they start to stop the 30 day VOA, you seem to rejoice in this prospect. That is what is so offensive.

And who can forget this classic:

"You and your buddies just come on here and piss and moan about how awful it is, and how Xenophobic Thailand is, and how Thailand will go down the tubes without your beer money proming the economic engine."

By the way, I don't drink and this clearly implies from your standpoint that people on 30 day VOA's who come here on holiday are somehow inferior to yourself.  This is but just one of numerous examples of the type of hyperbole and BS you have foisted on to people here.  Its interesting for you to now ramble on in bewilderment about how you are being misunderstood and mischaracterized.  Get a clue!

P.S.  Pretty soon you'll be comparing people on 30 day VOAs or who may have used visa services to paedophiles and coke addicts.  Oh, I forgot you did that on another thread.

[dropout]

Indo-Siam,

Perhaps you should also consider the fact that if no less than 6 people have posted regarding how your comments are objectionable, perhaps those people are, god forbid, onto something and you need to reconsider what you are writing and how it is being interpreted rather than selectively quoting what you feel is not objectionable in your posts.  Think about how many people have read your comments, considered them objectionable and not written responses because they see that others have already done so.