Sugar Cane

[Chaimai]

First of all, apologies for another 'start up' post. I have spent ages looking for "maizefarmer + sugarcane" but could not find that piece of information. (Frankly, the search facility on TV is weak - or perhaps it is me - because a search as above brought loads of posts on casava, rubber etc, etc but precious little on sugarcane).

I am looking for a general run through on the considerations for switching to 20 rai of sugarcane production. Finance is not the key issue - starting properly to maximise potential is important though.

Any guidance will be much appreciated.

[Maizefarmer]

Nothing to apologise for .... thats the reason why the forum exists.

You're right - the TV search facility is not all that good.....

You'll be switching from rice to grow sugar - check out how salty the land is?

Secondly, keep in mind that if the land is low enough to flood naturally during the rainy season (which is characteristc of a lot of rice land in Thailand), theres a fair chance that the flooding that occurs naturally will destroy you cane crop. So what is the drainage situation on this 20rai of land you now want to grow cane on?

Thridly - logistics: the make/break point for sugar cane farmers in Thailand often comes down to 2 things: when they plant their cane (which determines when it wil be harvested), and the distance/avaliability of transport - if you are harevsting when everyone else is harvesting then the guys who run the transport trucks have the upper hand. 20rai is small by cane field standards, and get them to put time aside and give preferance to you (versus farmers who have 100 - 400rai - from whom they are going to earn quite a bit of money), will mean some hard transport cost negoiating. The situation is made worse if you are cutting when everyone else is - everyone if desperate to get to the front of the transport que, so there cane doesn;t sit on the truck behind a hundred other trucks waiting to get offloaded at the mill, or if you are a long way from the mill, the rail point (where the cane is moved onto rail).

The logistics issue also extends to labourers - if youre cutting same time as everyone else, you'll be competing for the labour pool - and the labourers are going to gravitate towards the farms that have the most for them to cut (so they can earn more).

Lastly - how far are you from the mill? - transport costs are anothr issue. Make sure you are not so far as to make the cost of tranporting 20rai of cut cane so expensive that it wipes out your margin.

Growing cane is unlike growing any other crop in Thailand. There are a whole bunch of issues, some of which are out of the farmers control, that need to be carefully considered if one is going to make a financial success of it. The issues I have raised above are non-agronomy issues (nothing to do with soil quality, rainfall, cane hybrid and cultivation management), they are practical issues which, no matter how good your crop is, can quickly undo 18 months worth of hard work, time, effort and capital outlay - and they are major issues. Transport is the the one major issue that has cane farmers shaking their heads every year.

In short: you can have a perfect cane crop - but don't under-estimate the importance that labour and transport play in the economics of cane growing (they are as important as water and soil condition).

My advice: before making any committments, research the above as comprehensively as you can (speak to as many cane farmers as you can around you).

When you've done that, and still feel confident its vaible crop to cultivate, we can move the discussion onto hybrid types, fertiliser regimes, irrigation/water requirements, soil prep ect ect ....... 20rai is not a lot in terms of cane – in fact its quite small, but is (in my humble opinion) an ideal size to start with i.e. not to big to work out the economics, not to be big to manage and monitor - its a nice practical size. If things don't work out - well, what you learn from the experiance will put you in good stead for the next time round without having knocked the finances too much.

Check out the following threads - skip back through the Farmin In Thailand section using the dates as a quick ref, till you find the following thread titles:

Need Sugarcane Cuttings For Ethanol (2006-11-14)

Growing Sugarcane, Costs (2007-01-15)

Sugar Cane Problems, burning and harvesting (2006-12-17)

Sugar Cane, Sugar under pressure (2006-02-01)

Sugar Fertilizer Prices, Cost (2007-02-12)

All the best...

[jay-uk]

I am quite interested to learn more about growing sugar cane also to maximise yield and prices per rai. On a quick internet search, sugar cane is showing up at a price of US$36-44 per meton. Is this price correct and up to date? The other figure I found was 15 metons per rai for cane is that also correct?

Other information needed would be cost/s to grow through Nov- Mar growing period and what are seedlings?, labour, water and feed costs to calculate margins etc..

I don't know anything about sugar at the moment but it seems a better prospect than rice for a small plot.

Thanks for any help you can give...

[Maizefarmer]

Jay

You need to go see as many sugar farmers in the area where you are intending to grow – different hybrids grow better/worse in different areas. Take a note what hybrid type others in your area are growing.

As well, some hybrids mature quicker than others.

Seedlings – cane is grown from what are called “sets”, which are segments of cane cut from harvested crop. Important you source these from a reputable supplier in your area, and ideally treated.

Its also important you prepare your soil properly and that you plant the sets at the correct depth with the correct fertiliser, correct set and row spacing, and that you follow the correct regime when it comes to fertilising later.

When you plant is dependent to some extent on the hybrid type you choice to use.

15 metric tons per rai? – yup, that’s possible – but again water, soil, hybrid type are all factors which are going to effect your yield.

How long to grow? – depends on the hybrid type – some can take as little as a year, some as long as 18 months and longer.

Take note of my comments regards harvesting/labour and transport – plan ahead for this or it could strip away all your profit and leave you with a loss.

In short: hard to give you any accurate answers till you have settled on a hybrid type to cultivate – come back with that info and I’m sure the guys with experience will be only to happy to help answer your questions.

[neverdie]

Maizefarmer,

As usual some great advice here, I realise the thread is almost a year old now. Are you able to tell me what the going rate per metric tonne of sugar cane is here in Thailand. I tried to google it and got heaps of other information but havent been able to find what they are paying growers.

cheers

[teletiger]

Neverdie, try these. Some English, mostly Thai. Google chrome will auto translate. Prices for most things in the first one.

http://www.taladsimummuang.com/dmma/Portals/NewsDetail.aspx?id=129

http://www.coopinthailand.com/

Regards.

[neverdie]

thanks teletiger, just saw this, had also received a PM off someone else with some basic info. cheers

[joker7]

Maizefarmer

Some good advice here.

I have 72 Rai to plant and im curious is sugar a more profitable crop than sweetcorn ? The land was previously only used for sweetcorn.

We just finished buying all the land so missed the harvest just passed.

It seems from these estimates of 15mt / rai and a price of say $40 that it become fairly profitable.

There is a sugar farmer near where we live, he is wiling to sell 1 rai of seed which should plant I am told 15 rai. He is willing to sell 1 rai for 15,000 baht. Is this a good price.

There doesnt seem to be that much sugar around where we live (mostly rice+sweetcorn) though what is there seems to be growing well. Is this due to higher start up costs and therefore all the thai farmer's cant afford to grow it ?

cheers

[Extenso]

Maizefarmer

Some good advice here.

I have 72 Rai to plant and im curious is sugar a more profitable crop than sweetcorn ? The land was previously only used for sweetcorn.

We just finished buying all the land so missed the harvest just passed.

It seems from these estimates of 15mt / rai and a price of say $40 that it become fairly profitable.

There is a sugar farmer near where we live, he is wiling to sell 1 rai of seed which should plant I am told 15 rai. He is willing to sell 1 rai for 15,000 baht. Is this a good price.

There doesnt seem to be that much sugar around where we live (mostly rice+sweetcorn) though what is there seems to be growing well. Is this due to higher start up costs and therefore all the thai farmer's cant afford to grow it ?

cheers

hi again

15,000 is a good price. Maybe too good. Remember if you have good land can you go to the bank and borrow about 50.000 thb pr rai. Of course have thai always problems with cashflow and it means sometimes you can buy land very cheap. Someone offer 100 rai for 1,3 million thb for me. When you buy do you have to be carefully about the land is not sabagoo. It means the land has not been transfered from one owner to another because they could not affoard the tax. Lots of land in Thailand dont have a real owner and technical does the land belong to Thailand.

I own some land but I prefer to rent because ROI is a lot higher. Own land is a very bad investment because you can rent it so cheap. 300 thb per year for 1 rai. As you can see you can rent many rais for 15000 thb. I do care a lot more about balance. Investment in truck is a lot more important because you can any time sell your sugarcanes. Not difficult to find employees if your thai family not have done anything bad. A tractor is not that important because many families has tractors because it is a prestige to have this one. The same about truck. When you harvest today do you have to pay about 150 pr tons. It will say and investment in truck quickly gets back to you. I bought my first 6 wheels truck for 330,000 thb. In the 2 harverst month does those amount get back to you. The truck can take about 15 tons each time.

Anders

[Atmos]

Hi

Here are cost estimates per each 10 rai for sugar as provided by gf's brother-in-law who manages the main family farm.

Welcome any comment, or suggestions on anything he's missed out.

Remember this is for 10 rai and will be multiplied out for the farm.

24,000 seedlings

5500 ground preparation

7000 fertiliser

8000 planting

1600 insecticides

1000 'extras'(didn't specify)

47,100, so maybe count on 50k.

5k per rai.

The land is owned, there'll be no money borrowing involved . . .

fire away!! I'm not financially involved at all, just interested in his figures.

Edited November 2, 2010 by genghis61

[joker7]

Anders

How much per ton to tranport the sugar cane.

You mentioned 150 Baht / tonne for transport, is this correct ?