Kingpower Talks Back!

[Benjie]

For a member who's new (since 2 weeks) on Thaivisa you're quite busy, defending Kingpower

But, let me repeat what I wrote:

""It's also not the point; the point is -guilty or not guilty- the extortion of enormous amounts of money from the people involved, apart from the fact that they were kept against their will, missed their plane and the amounts are not proportionate to the products involved, whether KP is/was involved or not.""

LaoPo

Yep You've got me, I'm obviously a Farang employee of Kingpower planted here to wait for two weeks to strike in their defense, more tin foil hat stuff.

Anyone who gets caught stealing is kept against their will by the police - that's the point.

[LaoPo]

Anyone who gets caught stealing is kept against their will by the police - that's the point.

It's not.

If anyone steals and the police takes him/her/them I fully agree.

It's the extortion of GBP 8,000 that blew the story, not the theft.

LaoPo

[Benjie]

Anyone who gets caught stealing is kept against their will by the police - that's the point.

It's not.

If anyone steals and the police takes him/her/them I fully agree.

It's the extortion of GBP 8,000 that blew the story, not the theft.

LaoPo

They've already proved they are liars and thieves, who's to say they didn't beg and plead to be let out the country (knowing full well they were guilty) offering more and more money. I'm surprised why you are inclined to continue to believe these guys were hard done by when there is a video posted of the lady in question stealing, and then their obvious lies and outlandish claims.

[ozzieovaseas]

I really don't see why this should deserve it's own topic since the video and the explanation has been showed AND discussed into great detail at the main topic.

It's also not the point; the point is -guilty or not guilty- the extortion of enormous amounts of money from the people involved, apart from the fact that they were kept against their will, missed their plane and the amounts are not proportionate to the products involved, whether KP is/was involved or not.

The cases are absurd and would create ENORMOUS bad publicity for the shop owners and (airport/police) staff in every other major airport in the world.

It's very bad publicity -again- for Thailand.

LaoPo

Very bad publicity for thieves thinking of coming here for sure! Surely sending them to prison for years would be worse, because if a judge saw this video then they would have been found guilty.

For a member who's new (since 2 weeks) on Thaivisa you're quite busy, defending Kingpower

But, let me repeat what I wrote:

""It's also not the point; the point is -guilty or not guilty- the extortion of enormous amounts of money from the people involved, apart from the fact that they were kept against their will, missed their plane and the amounts are not proportionate to the products involved, whether KP is/was involved or not.""

LaoPo

Who's really missed the point here??

From my perspective, the choices are:

(a) Go the system and spend XX years in a sh!tty thai prison...because YOU ARE guilty:

or

( Pay 8,000 pounds and go home

corruption or no corruption i will gladly take option (

took took wan thanks!

[cpofc]

it's a bit like George Bernard Shaw on the train isn't it. Where he meets and strikes up a conversation with a young lady, which leads to talk of sex.

He asks her if she would 'do it' for a million pounds' She thinks for a moment and says, Yes, she would.

Would you do it for five pounds GBS asks.

The young lady is shocked and insulted. 'What do you take me for, what do you think I am?' She wails

Miss, I have already established what you are, we are just haggling about the price.

I think that is what is going on among you here. These two are not just thieves, IMHO they are well practiced ones.

regardless of what transpired later, KP itself has no case to answer in my book and anything else is argumentative.

(feel free to correct my version of the above story if i am wrong in any part, memory, getting old)

Edited July 7, 2009 by cpofc

[G54]

Anyone who gets caught stealing is kept against their will by the police - that's the point.

It's not.

If anyone steals and the police takes him/her/them I fully agree.

It's the extortion of GBP 8,000 that blew the story, not the theft.

LaoPo

I agree with Laopo here ^^

The reason people are objecting and complaining is that due process of law was not followed. £8000 is a lot of money for what amounts to a shoplifting incident. Definitely extortion in that respect.

If they had been processed they would have had problems, yes, but you can bet the police and others involved are also financially better off now because they also committed a worse crime!! That will put people off coming here because it is yet more corruption. As 'civilised' people we expect to see justice being meted out fairly.

[fiddlehead]

I apologize to King Power for my thoughts.

Looks like professional crooks to me.

Did you read about how they changed clothes, sat separately, and he had the stolen goods on him although she took it??

[cpofc]

Anyone who gets caught stealing is kept against their will by the police - that's the point.

It's not.

If anyone steals and the police takes him/her/them I fully agree.

It's the extortion of GBP 8,000 that blew the story, not the theft.

LaoPo

I agree with Laopo here ^^

The reason people are objecting and complaining is that due process of law was not followed. £8000 is a lot of money for what amounts to a shoplifting incident. Definitely extortion in that respect.

If they had been processed they would have had problems, yes, but you can bet the police and others involved are also financially better off now because they also committed a worse crime!! That will put people off coming here because it is yet more corruption. As 'civilised' people we expect to see justice being meted out fairly.

What amounts to 'a shoplifting incident'. That sounds alot like what the Australian press said about the miserbale $60.00 Bar mat in phuket.

Incident?

Is that the new polite term for THEFT today is it? Petty theft maybe, but 'incident'?

The retail stores in Australia stopped calling it Shoplifting, and have been calling the crime for what it is for sometime now. Shop Stealing.

May i ask a question, what do you reckon would have happened had they legitmately bought the product?

[LaoPo]

Kingpower mishandled and misjudged the case and underestimated the power of Internet and news agencies around the world.

Kingpower should have dissociated themselves immediately of the extortion the moment they heard about it.

Instead, they do their best to prove that there were thieves in their camera images but they did NOTHING to express their disgust about the extortion.

If they would have done so, the problem for Kingpower would have been minimal. Wrong and lousy PR and now it will cost them, big time.

There is no way that I, nor my wife, friends and relatives, will ever enter a Kingpower shop in BKK again...

It is by far not just the first couple, the whole original thread is about. The extortions are going on for a long time already and every time Kingpower is mentioned one way or another because they have a monopoly on the airport and the extortions are a follow-up because of the images they supplied to the "authorities".

They should have -a long time ago- published their excuses for the extortions and explain to the people that they were NOT involved.

Again: lousy PR and mishandled in a scandalous way.

LaoPo

[ozzieovaseas]

Anyone who gets caught stealing is kept against their will by the police - that's the point.

It's not.

If anyone steals and the police takes him/her/them I fully agree.

It's the extortion of GBP 8,000 that blew the story, not the theft.

LaoPo

I agree with Laopo here ^^

The reason people are objecting and complaining is that due process of law was not followed. £8000 is a lot of money for what amounts to a shoplifting incident. Definitely extortion in that respect.

If they had been processed they would have had problems, yes, but you can bet the police and others involved are also financially better off now because they also committed a worse crime!! That will put people off coming here because it is yet more corruption. As 'civilised' people we expect to see justice being meted out fairly.

Yeh,point taken..but lets think of universal law:

(1) look after number 1..always

After K.P has come to the party and responded the silence of these two lowlifes is deafening..

Im just wondering if, after all the damning evidence has come out, will they even be seen again..and continue on boldly with their case?..or crawl under a very large rock in a faraway forest..

The worst part about it is that they knew they were in the wrong yet they thought they could benefit the system AGAIN by garnering public support and sympathy..in an effort to unashameably gain MORE benefit by mounting a legal case.

They are now at home sipping on a nice red by the fire..instead of sharing a one toilet cement cell with 40 others..for the "cost" of their 8000 pounds..

Money well spent,i'd pay the same and more to anyone who could deliver me out of such a situation..especially if guilty and facing thai prison

SO..If you came to this country and decided to "five finger discount" something on a whim would you be happy to bide your time and follow due course of the law??

AND..If you came to this country and didnt steal anything and were framed would you also be happy to follow due course and risk the same sentance and not have the option of buying a 8000 pound get out of jail card.

Again, 8000 a small price for guilty hi-so's to live to steal another day

[baht&sold]

If anyone owns a shop, where lifting is permitted, just post and surely some will get a lift and pop round there (as apparently this is ok?).

PS: NOT a fan of KP with dubious associations to Mr Thaksin and lately Mr Newin, nor of suspects who 'buy' their way out, nor of those who offer such service.

[sassienie]

Anyone who gets caught stealing is kept against their will by the police - that's the point.

It's not.

If anyone steals and the police takes him/her/them I fully agree.

It's the extortion of GBP 8,000 that blew the story, not the theft.

LaoPo

They've already proved they are liars and thieves, who's to say they didn't beg and plead to be let out the country (knowing full well they were guilty) offering more and more money. I'm surprised why you are inclined to continue to believe these guys were hard done by when there is a video posted of the lady in question stealing, and then their obvious lies and outlandish claims.

Absolutely agree.

After their plea of innocence, anyone would be a fool to believe anything further they say.

When these thieves committed the crimes, they put themselves under the tender mercies of a corrupt institution. In fact they became owned by the Thai authorities through their own actions.

Whatever happened to them during their detainment here in Thailand has hopefully taught these thieves a lesson as fools never listen to advice or use common sense, they only learn by experience.

My sympathy levels for these criminals is minus 10.

[isanb]

i agree with Laopo, by letting go such acts (extortion), KP discredit itself.

Yes the thieves must be punished .

But it seems obvious that KP don't care that a band of thugs have set up

an extortion business (bound to problems that all stores can enconter : shoplifting)

involving KP shops.

From now on I will not put a foot in these stores and i will advise all my friends

to avoid them.

[torrenova]

I really don't see why this should deserve it's own topic since the video and the explanation has been showed AND discussed into great detail at the main topic.

It's also not the point; the point is -guilty or not guilty- the extortion of enormous amounts of money from the people involved, apart from the fact that they were kept against their will, missed their plane and the amounts are not proportionate to the products involved, whether KP is/was involved or not.

The cases are absurd and would create ENORMOUS bad publicity for the shop owners and (airport/police) staff in every other major airport in the world.

It's very bad publicity -again- for Thailand.

LaoPo

That is exactly the point LaoPo, but maybe King Power are trying to distance themselves from the Police action?

Cheers, Rick

These two people are not part of my social group and I cannot attest, beyond reasonable doubt, that they are indeed the ones in the CCTV clip. Heck, the definition is fair but hardly TV quality is it ?

You'd also need multiple other CCTV clips, which you could trust, to prove any other statement in the King Power press release, such as the change of clothes, the separation at the restaurant and others etc. I'm sorry but just because we have seen a clip, whose provenance has not been authenticated and which purports to show the said couple, does not mean that even if the video were authentic, all other accusations made by King Power are also true.

However, the real issue is not whether they are guilty but the treatment, extortion, threats etc. made in the so called name of what purports to be Thai justice.

I don't think King Power come out very clean even if the couple are guilty, as King Power now admit putting in place a series of events which let to this couple's terrible treatment at the hands of the Thai authorities.

[Benjie]

Kingpower found some thieves and told the police, what exactly do you think is their responsibility to those they find stealing from their stores? To mollycoddle and protect?

Whats this "even if the couple is guilty?" There is a video of the lady stealing the wallet - I'm not sure if there is any better evidence available.

The real issue for Kingpower is that the couple were guilty and passed over to the police as required by law, nothing else is their responsibility, including the wellbeing of the people who stole from them.

Personally I'm glad they had to pay 8,000 pounds, I'd be even happier if they were in Thai jail though. I see no excuse for their crimes, and doubt this would be their first offense - for all you know they spent their whole holiday stealing, probably paid for their holiday through theft and sounds like they are currently trying to defraud money from their insurance company with their allegations.

Edited July 7, 2009 by Benjie

[Harcourt]

i agree with Laopo, by letting go such acts (extortion), KP discredit itself.

Yes the thieves must be punished .

But it seems obvious that KP don't care that a band of thugs have set up

an extortion business (bound to problems that all stores can enconter : shoplifting)

involving KP shops.

From now on I will not put a foot in these stores and i will advise all my friends

to avoid them.

I'm amazed at the vehemence of the arguments that continue to put KP at fault.

Without going back to read the thread that brought this to light in this forum, I recall that it was quite unanimously condemnatory of KP and sympathetic to the Brit couple. I recall making a mental note to never go to KP myself.

Now that the poor, abused Brit couple have been shown to be the architects of their own downfall, people continue to condemn KP.

I can understand the POV that there is no excuse for extortion, and that due process should have been followed (and I agree that the Brits were actually lucky to have been extorted rather than face gaol).....but is it KP that extorted and denied due process? In KP's letter in the OP, they say that they let airport security view the video footage and thus turned the matter over to airport security. Rightly so.

It seems to me to be unlikely that KP had anything to do with what followed.

Do KP have a particularly better surveilance system than other shops, and thus the extortionists in airport security have more opportunities to conduct their extortion on KP shoplifters?

Perhaps other shops extract their own justice on the spot and don't involve airport security staff ("You steal...give me money or I will call security".....and you can bet that this situation would never be reported!), thus KP is the one in the spotlight because they do the right thing of handing the matter to the authorities.

There is no evidence at all that makes KP look to be in cahoots.

To me this is just another case whereby I was all too willing to feel sympathy for the farang and make a judgement against the Thai....without all the facts.

Mia culpa, and I am ashamed of myself. I have to learn not to make snap judgements on appearances.

I will make a point of shopping at KP.

[verydumbubba]

How can guilt or innocence be gauged by posts or topics? Is nobody interested in the truth?

Bubba

[torrenova]

Kingpower found some thieves and told the police, what exactly do you think is their responsibility to those they find stealing from their stores? To mollycoddle and protect?

Whats this "even if the couple is guilty?" There is a video of the lady stealing the wallet - I'm not sure if there is any better evidence available.

The real issue for Kingpower is that the couple were guilty and passed over to the police as required by law, nothing else is their responsibility, including the wellbeing of the people who stole from them.

Personally I'm glad they had to pay 8,000 pounds, I'd be even happier if they were in Thai jail though. I see no excuse for their crimes, and doubt this would be their first offense - for all you know they spent their whole holiday stealing, probably paid for their holiday through theft and sounds like they are currently trying to defraud money from their insurance company with their allegations.

Sorry but there is not video of this couple stealing anything. There is a video produced by KP which they say shows someone they accuse of stealing. Only a court and not as jumped up kangaroo court can decide that.

You are a sad individual if you are happy that they had to pay £8000. You are pronouncing them guilty before they are have been to court and you condone, nay, you actively encourage police extortion and corruption.

I hope you receive your brand of compassion, multiplied to the extreme, when you are in need or protection from the "law".

[citizen33]

From the accounts provided this seems a very strange case: there is an apparently incriminating video; a pair of thieves who go to the trouble of changing clothes and sitting apart for the prize of a single wallet; a police interpreter of dubious official standing, with an even more dubious history of involvement in cases of this kind; a company that seems to have little interest in due process and is only forced into press statements when the media get involved. I have no idea what really happened.

[Benjie]

Kingpower found some thieves and told the police, what exactly do you think is their responsibility to those they find stealing from their stores? To mollycoddle and protect?

Whats this "even if the couple is guilty?" There is a video of the lady stealing the wallet - I'm not sure if there is any better evidence available.

The real issue for Kingpower is that the couple were guilty and passed over to the police as required by law, nothing else is their responsibility, including the wellbeing of the people who stole from them.

Personally I'm glad they had to pay 8,000 pounds, I'd be even happier if they were in Thai jail though. I see no excuse for their crimes, and doubt this would be their first offense - for all you know they spent their whole holiday stealing, probably paid for their holiday through theft and sounds like they are currently trying to defraud money from their insurance company with their allegations.

Sorry but there is not video of this couple stealing anything. There is a video produced by KP which they say shows someone they accuse of stealing. Only a court and not as jumped up kangaroo court can decide that.

You are a sad individual if you are happy that they had to pay £8000. You are pronouncing them guilty before they are have been to court and you condone, nay, you actively encourage police extortion and corruption.

I hope you receive your brand of compassion, multiplied to the extreme, when you are in need or protection from the "law".

So you're saying that Kingpower have produced this video, hired actors, commited libel, directed the MD to make a statement etc... and the couple are innocent. Yet you seem to have pronounced Kingpower guilty of making this up and the production of a false video simply on the hearsay of a couple, accused of stealing?

They decided and paid not to go to court. Personally I think paying 100 times the amount of the item you stole is getting off lightly, likely they have stolen 100 times before they eventually got caught, thank god they have been shown for what they really are, liars and thieves. Got to love technology.

If I ever decide to take up stealing I'll make sure to keep your advice in mind.

Edited July 7, 2009 by Benjie

[CRUNCHER]

The footage isnt exactly like watching a Plasma screen so im probably wrong, but didnt she take the wallet round to the opposite side of the stand and leave it there.

Agreed the picture is not very good, but if you watch many times you can make a few deductions. At first the woman seems to put back all the wallets she picked up. The man seems to twice pick up a wallet with his right hand and transfer it his left hand. He then tansfers them back to his right. When the woman walks round to the other side of the counter she is clearly holding one or more wallets. Here I have to make a deduction. Having originally put back all the wallets she picked up, the only logical explanation for her having the wallets in her left hand is that the man passed them to her. In fact she has two wallets in her hand. She puts one down, turns away and puts the other one in her bag.

Note also that both of them are carrying something else in their left hands. Presumably to hide what they are up to.

[GungaDin]

i agree with Laopo, by letting go such acts (extortion), KP discredit itself.

Yes the thieves must be punished .

But it seems obvious that KP don't care that a band of thugs have set up

an extortion business (bound to problems that all stores can enconter : shoplifting)

involving KP shops.

From now on I will not put a foot in these stores and i will advise all my friends

to avoid them.

I'm amazed at the vehemence of the arguments that continue to put KP at fault.

>snip>

Mia culpa, and I am ashamed of myself. I have to learn not to make snap judgements on appearances.

I will make a point of shopping at KP.

Try to get a text message to us from an over-crowded Thai prison, if you can.......

[Serpico]

Typical Thai Police.

They exploit the law for personal gains.

The way this was handled is outrageous and State Departments owe their citizens a travel warning on Thailand until something changes with the cops in this country.

If you can't trust the Police where you holiday, best stay away.

[aka_jack]

in the uk you would get a slap on the wrist and a small fine ! Seems to me they had a bigger crime commited against them buy the bib ! Yes if so they stole doesnt justify there treatment but they made there choice to pay and get the hel_l out ! Im sure in the courts they wouldnt be sentenced to years in prison like some are suggesting!!

[Detox]

Well, they cannot deny the theft from what I just saw.

Som Num Na.

[animatic]

I really don't see why this should deserve it's own topic since the video and the explanation has been showed AND discussed into great detail at the main topic.

It's also not the point; the point is -guilty or not guilty-

the extortion of enormous amounts of money from the people involved, apart from the fact that they were kept against their will, missed their plane and the amounts are not proportionate to the products involved,

whether KP is/was involved or not.

The cases are absurd and would create ENORMOUS bad publicity for the shop owners and (airport/police) staff in every other major airport in the world.

It's very bad publicity -again- for Thailand.

LaoPo

Ditto.

Whether 'some' KP staff and 'some' security staff are scamming in colusion with 'some police', or not,

or whether either of these incidents is real or the cctv contrived to save face,

this is bad PR no question.

The onnus is on KP to clean up the appearance of trouble on their turf.

Something in the way 'their security staff' is handling all these incidents,

is causing great problems of K.P. and Thailand's image.

There is the issue

[Pierrot]

The way this was handled is outrageous and State Departments owe their citizens a travel warning on Thailand until something changes with the cops in this country.

Absolutely agree with you.

If you plan to cheat, scam, steal or kill someone (recent thread), avoid Thailand !!!

[aussiebebe]

Good for KingPower! All sorts of libelious comments about them have been made on this site and I think they are vindicated. When I read about the couple first of all, I imagined that the evidence had been planted by security guards when they had asked to 'search' the couple's bags. To my untrained, non-professional eye, the KingPower video shows the Chinese woman taking the wallet round the back of the display case, swiping it into her handbag and then quickly leaving.

I can't believe the comments being made about the Brits being 'well-off' and that being proof of them not needing to have stolen. In my opinion they should have been cautioned by the Police if it was their first offense, however they were clearly in line for a custodial sentence in Thailand.

Edited July 8, 2009 by aussiebebe

[Ulysses G.]

i have no sympathy for them

they stole and paid the price for it

they are not poor not out of work not hungry

but

if the film is found to be doctored or edited or any other case where it is ia set up then that is a different matter

Absolutely right. If you don't want to be "kept against your will", then DON'T SHOPLIFT. It is quite easy!

[sibeymai]

From the video of the British couple it would appear that in my opinion KP are vindicated.

However, for the conspiracy theorists:

1. The fact that a video exists is not conclusive evidence. Such a video could easily have been fabricated using actors who resemble the accused. Is there motivation to do this ? Absolutely. Contingency to protect KP's reputation should a scam backfire.

2. KP states several things which would need to be further verified to fully back up their version of events. How do we know for certain that the alleged perps had changed clothes and were sitting apart at the cafe ? Where is the video footage of the cafe to support this version ? The video would be readily available.

3. KP states that the man was in possession of the stolen goods and dumped it in a bin in front on the toilets. Where is the video footage of this event which supposedly occurred in a public area subject to surveillance ? Why would someone portrayed as an experienced shoplifter dispose of evidence publicly when it could be disposed inside the toilet out ov view of surveillance ?

While I agree the video supports KP's accusations it is weakened by the absence of correlating video from sources which KP would not be able to fabricate.

If I were the defense lawyer I would blow holes all through KP's version if, in court, they couldn't produce the independent video footage to corroborate the whole story as they have told it. The single video shown is not enough to convict on in a country with Thailand's reputation.

As to the GBP8,000 bribe paid, there is a simple and equally compelling reason why both guilty and innocent persons would pay such a bribe. A guilty person would prefer to avoid the Thai legal system just as much as an innocent person would.